This Week in Tech Episode 900 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word.
Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for TWiT. This week in Tech episode 900, we celebrate with a rocket takeover. Brianna Woo. Christina Warren and Simone de Roche fort. Join me. We'll talk about what's happening at TWiTtter. Elon is kind of going crazy on the platform. And stay tuned cuz at the end of the episode one of us, it's gonna get hit with a pie. I'm not kidding. TWiT is Next. Podcasts you love

TWiT Intro (00:00:28):
From people you trust. This

Leo Laporte (00:00:31):
Is is TWiT this week in tech episode 900 for Sunday, November 6th, 2022. The pies have it this week. In Tech is brought to you by ON Logic. On Logic is helping innovators around the world solve their most complex technology challenges using on logic industrial computers, which are engineered for reliability even in environments that would challenge or destroy traditional computer hardware. Learn more and find out about On Logic's 30 day risk free hardware trial by visiting on And by Rocket Money formally known as True Bill, are you wasting money on subscriptions? Cancel your unnecessary subscriptions right slash TWiT. Seriously, it could save you hundreds per year and buy it pro tv. If you're looking to break into the world of it or if your IT team needs to level up, get the introduction you need with IT Pro tv. Check out an IT pro TV business plan by visiting IT today. And by podium, join more than 100,000 businesses that already use podium to streamline their customer interactions. See how podium can grow your business. Watch a demo today at

It's time for TWiTt. This week at Tech Show we cover the week's news. This ladies and gentlemen, is a momentous occasion for a number of reasons. First of all, it is our nine hundreds episode TWiTT 900. Oh gosh. I know that's kind of hard to believe. Second, because we're being taken over. Yes. By the Rocket Podcast. It's so exciting for me. I'm a huge fan from right to left. Well, you all know Brianna well my right, Your left rebellion pack. She's been here many, many times. Welcome Brianna. Great to have you. I have some questions.

Brianna Wu (00:02:42):
I think I was on three weeks ago and now I'm just, I'm back. I'm busting up in your show

Leo Laporte (00:02:47):
Again. Well I think when you were on three weeks ago you said we should do a rocket show

Brianna Wu (00:02:54):
And you invited us. I was like, Yes, we're gonna make it happen.

Leo Laporte (00:02:58):
I know what happened happened cuz I said, We can never get Simone to show up. We try and we try to get her on the show and she never can do it. And you said, I'll talk to her. I said, Well, why don't you get Christina too while you're at it and we'll make it a rocket takeover. Here's Christina Warren. Hello. Film Studio Senior develop advocate for GitHub GitHub's having an event this week.

Christina Warren (00:03:17):
Yes, GitHub Universe is a GitHub Please like register, but that's gonna be Wednesday and Thursday at a your BU convention center here in San Francisco. But it'll also be streamed online. So I'm in town for that. Nice. And what's actually funny is that I'd reached out.

Leo Laporte (00:03:35):
We wanted to get you on. Yes. Cause you were gonna be in town. Exactly. So you could come in. So

Christina Warren (00:03:39):
I was already planning on being here

Leo Laporte (00:03:40):
And I think that's why we're doing it so quickly, Brianna, because oh, we have two out of the three. If only somebody knew Simone Rush four only, but we could ask her to be on

Christina Warren (00:03:50):
Simone Simone's here. She's finally joining us from her dungeon.

Leo Laporte (00:03:56):
You have this

Simone de Rochefort (00:03:56):
My window list dungeon

Leo Laporte (00:03:58):
Now that I know you live in Manhattan. I understand. This is actually a palace,

Simone de Rochefort (00:04:01):
Right? It

Leo Laporte (00:04:02):
Is. Where's your kitchen? Is that the over on the left there with the bell?

Simone de Rochefort (00:04:05):
Yeah, right back there. Yeah, just right back there. I just climbed the closet. I turn on my little buns and burner. I've never

Leo Laporte (00:04:11):
Seen smaller kitchens in my life than a New York.

Christina Warren (00:04:13):
Oh yeah. No, it's, it's great. You get, if you have a dishwasher, which I did in Brooklyn, but it was not a full size, It was like the half size dishwasher, which is almost worse than no dishwasher at all. Because you can maybe get one pan in it. Yeah.

Simone de Rochefort (00:04:25):
Remember of a temptation. And the possibility is there, but the reality.

Christina Warren (00:04:28):

Leo Laporte (00:04:30):
Yeah. I didn't, they had remember Bob the mini dishwasher at No, that's not it. No. Wait a minute. Let me see. To find it at CES last earlier this year.

Christina Warren (00:04:41):
Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:04:41):
It was a personal dishwasher.

Christina Warren (00:04:43):
Yes, I remember this now it's

Leo Laporte (00:04:44):
Tiny. And I thought, well, who would want that? Now I know

Christina Warren (00:04:48):
People who have small apartments,

Leo Laporte (00:04:50):
People like you. It's just a little bob little dishwasher on your sink like that. Oh,

Simone de Rochefort (00:04:54):
It's so cute. Oh, that's so cute. Oh, I love that. That's great. Can

Leo Laporte (00:04:58):
I say something to you? People just wash goddamn dishes. <laugh>.

Simone de Rochefort (00:05:02):
What the hell? Hang on. No, I mean

Christina Warren (00:05:05):
Slander about this wind up doing because we don't have a dishwasher. But yes,

Leo Laporte (00:05:08):
This dishwasher holds three dishes and a casserole. You could wash it in half the time it take to load the damn thing. Sorry.

Simone de Rochefort (00:05:16):
It's true. I have two important points to make. One, you should always hand wash pans, knives. Thank things like that. Thank. There's no reason for the

Leo Laporte (00:05:23):
Condition. Thank you. Very important. However, do you put your silverware handle up or handle down.

Simone de Rochefort (00:05:29):
Handle down <affirmative>.

Leo Laporte (00:05:30):

Christina Warren (00:05:31):
So do wanna handle up. It's

Simone de Rochefort (00:05:32):
Controversial. I know, I

Leo Laporte (00:05:34):
Know. Well, my wife and I, she throws everything in the dishwasher. She's bring my beautiful knives with the wooden handles and my wooden spoons. I gotta the point where I buy wooden spoons by the dozen now because I know they're gonna get warped and ruined. Right. And everything goes in the dishwasher. But then we had a fight when we first got together many years ago, handle up or handle down. So that's why I'm asking my personal feeling is you put the tongs down. Yes. So that you can remove them and hold them by the handle. You don't wanna pick it out with Exactly. I don't have to sterilize myself to get my silverware outta the dishwasher. You agree?

Christina Warren (00:06:09):
I'm 100% with you.

Leo Laporte (00:06:11):
Apparently Simone's

Simone de Rochefort (00:06:11):
Not. Are you putting tongs in the dishwasher? Those are hand,

Leo Laporte (00:06:14):
No, no regular

Christina Warren (00:06:15):
Silverware. Yeah, like putting the fork down. You don't wanna Oh, the tie

Leo Laporte (00:06:20):
Yourself. Tys down and Tys up is the question

Brianna Wu (00:06:23):
I do. Kitchen knives. You don't mess around with that. Those are, if you cook seriously, that is especially your favorite chef's knife. I know that is. You don't like if I Frank put my chef's knife, we would have

Leo Laporte (00:06:36):
A fight. I've broken her. Yeah.

Christina Warren (00:06:38):

Simone de Rochefort (00:06:38):
Think the real question, Oh, go on. No. Yeah, move on. Move on.

Brianna Wu (00:06:42):

Leo Laporte (00:06:43):
The real question in my mind is how much is this gonna be rocket? And how much this gonna be?

Simone de Rochefort (00:06:48):
I could talk about washing dishes for literally the whole

Leo Laporte (00:06:51):
Reality. No, you're trying to turn this into rocket. And that's

Christina Warren (00:06:53):
Literally never once talked about housework on Rocket. Oh,

Leo Laporte (00:06:56):
<laugh>. Literally. We

Simone de Rochefort (00:06:58):
Actually haven't, even though it's my favorite thing.

Brianna Wu (00:07:00):

Leo Laporte (00:07:00):
Wow. Well, here's your opportunity, Simone. No. Rocket is a wonderful podcast in Relay FM that talks about really a lot about news. In fact, I'm gonna apologize cuz I think we're gonna kind of rerun your last show over. That's completely fine. Cause Well,

Christina Warren (00:07:16):
No, but look, there's been more stuff since

Leo Laporte (00:07:17):
There's been more

Christina Warren (00:07:18):
Stuff we had to record on Tuesday because I was going out of town and everything that happened between Tuesday and now, there's a whole nother show's

Leo Laporte (00:07:25):
Worth it. Elon fired everybody on Friday. Sit on a note saying on Thursday, Don't come in. By the way, I love it that it was signed TWiTtter, <laugh>. Elon, we know it's you. <laugh> don't come in. We're locking the office because we're gonna lay a lot of people off. All of you. This is cruel. All of you are gonna get an email with a subject line, something like your future at TWiTtter. Yes. And then we'll read the mail and learn whether you are staying or leaving.

Christina Warren (00:07:55):
Well, it would depend on where it went. If it went to your personal mail, that means that you're gone because you've been locked out of everything. But if it went to your work mail, then congratulations. You are still employed for the

Leo Laporte (00:08:06):
Moment. I can't imagine anything handled more poorly. Me either. The worst layoff in history, worse than the guy who fired everybody on Zoom.

Christina Warren (00:08:13):
I was. Okay, so you think it's worse than that? Because I was having this debate with some people in a signaled chat where we were trying to decide, I think overall this is worse because it just how there was no communication for the whole week that he'd owned the company.

Leo Laporte (00:08:25):
Poor people were just awful TWiTsting in the wind

Christina Warren (00:08:27):
Of greet. And I think the uncertainty was so bad. But I do wonder, I think that also just being called into a group Zoom meeting and being told you're fired and the meeting cutting out halfway, that's pretty bad because they were cutting everyone's access regardless of this.

Simone de Rochefort (00:08:44):
My question too cause we were talking about this a bit, Christina <affirmative>, and when I initially read the story, of course, first it was the Washington Post reporting. There might be 70% of the company laid off then it was a slightly lower number I think when we recorded on Tuesday. And then it ended up being a ton of people. And as I was reading about how this was done, which does seem very cruel, I did start wondering what is the right way to do this in a world where so many people do work from home at this exact moment? And that question was kind of answered for us by the Stripe Stripe layoffs, which we talked about, Christina, which obviously layoffs are terrible and one would hope that you would never have to live through them. And they're hard for people who are laid off. They're hard for the people who remain behind at the company. But when we compare the TWiTtter email with the email that Stripe sent out to their employees, there's just a huge difference in the clarity of the communication that happened to the people who were laid off.

Christina Warren (00:09:40):
Yeah, no, I think you're exactly right.

Brianna Wu (00:09:42):
I'm also really struck by the methodology that they used to decide who they were gonna fire. It was bizarre. But they went through and for the engineering talent, it was like who had the most lines of code that they submitted? They asked.

Simone de Rochefort (00:09:55):
Yeah, that's crazy.

Leo Laporte (00:09:57):
They asked people to print out their code. In fact, lay over Culver tweet did a picture of her with the code she'd committed <affirmative>. And then a couple of things weird about that. First of all, they brought in Tesla engineers to talk to you about your code commits engineers working on a completely different product. By the way, Donna already don't have the best track record.

Christina Warren (00:10:19):
Well, not only that, but are not JavaScript engineers. Yeah. TWiTtter is a not front end. No, exactly. TWiTtter is largely a JavaScript shop. So if you're working on hardcore things that Tesla does, do you even know how to evaluate that code?

Leo Laporte (00:10:32):
There's also, I, I doubt, I can't believe that for, it's just, it's boggles the mind that it's possible for somebody to buy a company on Friday and within a week fire half the staff knowing who to fire and who not to fire. I don't understand a

Brianna Wu (00:10:49):
Hundred percent. What

Leo Laporte (00:10:51):
Metrics are you looking at? Right.

Christina Warren (00:10:52):

Leo Laporte (00:10:53):
How would you know if somebody's a good employee or not?

Christina Warren (00:10:55):
Wouldn't now, from what I've, there's been some reporting about this and then I've heard some things independently that the previous they

Leo Laporte (00:11:04):
Already had a map.

Christina Warren (00:11:04):
They already had listings and they'd already been asking people to make lists. Now, in my opinion, this actually is even more frustrating because the severance packages from some of the reporting things we've heard was not as good as what it had ever been at TWiTtter beforehand. Which means that if you knew that layoffs were coming, the humane thing to do would be, while you still have a job as an executive to lay off those people the right way to do the right thing. <affirmative>. And then if more people needed to be laid off, fine, but instead, from what I understand, they basically just wanted it to be Elon's problem and wanted to close the deal. But

Leo Laporte (00:11:41):
If you come into a company, fire all the leadership and then use their roadmap for who else to fire, it's kind of saying, I don't trust these guys. They didn't do a good job running Trader. Oh, but by the way, let's look. Let's use what their notes. It's not. So I find it hard to believe that that was a value. What's the deal with the lines of code? Why print out your code? There's a famous story. This is Andy

Christina Warren (00:12:04):
Ville. Oh yes, yes. I love this. I love

Leo Laporte (00:12:06): About the early days of the Macintosh. He's writing about Bill act. It's arguably the greatest coder of our era. One of them certainly

Christina Warren (00:12:15):
100%. One of the quintessential of the modern kind of gooey era people like. Yes.

Leo Laporte (00:12:21):
He wrote Quick Draw, he wrote the graphic primitives for the Macintosh. And he says in early 82, the Lisa software team was trying to buckle down the big push to ship the software. Within the next six months, some of the managers decided it would be a good idea to track the progress of each individual engineer in terms of the amount of code they wrote from week to week. Sound familiar? So they asked every engineer to submit a form. Bill Atkinson legendary. Bill Atkinson had been working on optimizing quick draw, had rewritten the region engine using a simpler, more general algorithm. So on his form he said I wrote minus 2000 lines of code. He cut out 2000 lines of code. Wow. Now if you're, You're asking me, I say that's a guy to hire.

Christina Warren (00:13:09):
I agree. I

Leo Laporte (00:13:10):
Agree. But that printout is a little short

Christina Warren (00:13:13):
<laugh>. It is, yeah. 100%. But it's just such a dumb metric to base things on.

Leo Laporte (00:13:19):
And we don't know. You don't industry, we don't know

Christina Warren (00:13:21):
What happened. I was gonna say I've, I've heard a lot of conflicting things from people who would be in a better position to know to say that maybe that was part of it, but that wasn't the entire thing. Regardless if that plays any role, just shows just what a disaster this whole thing has been. And I think the reason there's been no communication and that allows

Leo Laporte (00:13:39):
Narratives to vacuum of information, that's when your conspiracy theories and all the weirdness starts. And I'll add one more weird piece that just came out this morning. People are saying, this is Matt who tweeted, confirm TWiTtter is now asking some fired workers to please come back. Yeah. Oh my God. Some were laid off by mistake <affirmative>. Some were let go before management realized their experiences needed to build the features. Eon, or as you call 'em, of Brianna, I believe El know is planning El. No,

Brianna Wu (00:14:14):
I made a typo with that and I'm like, no, this is actually better. It's catching on a viral tweet about that. It's catching on. No, it's great. I love it.

Leo Laporte (00:14:21):
I love it. Well it also has the advantage that if Elon's looking for his name, which he's undoubtedly spending most of his day doing. Yeah. He may not final though.

Brianna Wu (00:14:29):
That was,

Christina Warren (00:14:29):
Did we all see about how lot of the stuff leaked? Was that when he added some of the new lieutenants and some of his new henchmen into TWiTtter's Slack instance, they did not realize that the channels they created were not private by default. That's why people were able to then monitor what was happening, find documents which were also not private. David s Sachs's calendar was open to everyone. And so he was able to see the people were able to see, Oh, we're having meetings about layoffs here, here and here. I mean, just the level of incompetence the whole way around. Just so I feel so bad for every person who's still there. Every person who was there. I know that it was,

Leo Laporte (00:15:10):
My heart goes

Christina Warren (00:15:11):
Out. I know it was a messy company. But to have it happen this way and then for it to be so public and to just then have a certain contention of the internet gleefully like rejoicing

Leo Laporte (00:15:22):
In this. It's a lot of

Christina Warren (00:15:23):
It's, it's really gross. I really,

Simone de Rochefort (00:15:26):
Yeah. Cuz TWiTtter is, it's one of the loudest pieces of social media. We have tweets get printed in so many other news stories on articles all over the internet and everyone on TWiTtter is very opinionated. And I think we'll talk about this a little bit, but it's not the biggest social media. But it contains some of the biggest windbags that we have. And I include myself among them. So

Leo Laporte (00:15:51):
Also, Amplifi Amplifications, you

Simone de Rochefort (00:15:52):
Say we're best for this to be

Leo Laporte (00:15:53):
Happening. It really goes out to the world at large. If you tweet something <affirmative> <affirmative> as Donald Trump and Elon Musk Butler. Yes. Is Elon Musk the number one poster now on TWiTtter? I believe so. Oh,

Simone de Rochefort (00:16:04):
We can sing on

Leo Laporte (00:16:05):
Your show. No. We'll bleep it just like we do on your show. <laugh>

Christina Warren (00:16:10):
As a Simone's the one who has to keep us in. Check

Leo Laporte (00:16:13):
On that. I don't think there's a way to say poster without

Christina Warren (00:16:15):
Sayings. I mean ish poster say

Leo Laporte (00:16:18):
S poster. But that sounds like poster.

Christina Warren (00:16:20):
No, I say ish poster

Leo Laporte (00:16:21):
Ish poster.

Christina Warren (00:16:22):
Ishish poster.

Leo Laporte (00:16:23):

Christina Warren (00:16:24):
It doesn't, is not as good as poster

Leo Laporte (00:16:26):
I I kid you not poster. There is somebody probably Jason Howell, who is now Hasid writing down the time codes that every time you say, so keep saying it <laugh> And that

Simone de Rochefort (00:16:36):
Way Jason, I'm so sorry. That's usually my job and I'm so sorry

Leo Laporte (00:16:41):
You do it very well.

Simone de Rochefort (00:16:42):
No I don't. I explicitly don't. I get in trouble for it all

Leo Laporte (00:16:45):
Now. You use a beep. I do. We use a beep, John. No, we like reverse it. We do silence. Yeah.

Christina Warren (00:16:53):
Oh, I like that. I like that better.

Leo Laporte (00:16:54):
Honestly, sometimes you, you're on

Brianna Wu (00:16:55):
Rap show. We Springer back in the day. What

Leo Laporte (00:16:58):
Is Springer beep? Yeah. Yeah. That's fun too. No,

Brianna Wu (00:17:02):
I just wanted to, But going back to who they fired, I wanted to say we do know a lot about which teams they fired at this point. We know that one of the teams that worked on accessibility <affirmative> for people with disabilities, they're gone. We know one of the teams that dealt with misinformation, they are gone. We know that the TWiTtter right feature something I've been really, really eager for them to unveil. Finally, I've been talking to them in PM forever going, Please bring this to market. I wanna use this. Elon is announcing that you're gonna be able to do long form things on TWiTtter. And then he goes and fires the entire TWiTtter right team. And it's all the moose he's making. It's like, I understand that there need to be layoffs here. I don't think TWiTtter is the only overstaffed company in Silicon Valley.

And I think it can make times sense sometimes to take a step back, look at what you need and refocus in a moment like this. I don't think anyone reasonable would have an issue with that. But the thing is, they came in here, they're getting people from outside the company to make these decisions. It's haphazard. You've got legacy. There was a great thread on TWiTtter yesterday with someone who works on the reliability part of TWiTtter talking about how he is really worried about the threats to the service from here forward. Because they're people that understand all this legacy code that they count on to keep the thing running for high frequency events like Queen Elizabeth. And they're just gone now. So say the midterms next week, this week, rather. Like what's gonna happen when that part of TWiTtter goes down or needs someone to understands that to look at it. It's just gonna plummet. So think about the reliability of TWiTtter going down in the same period of time that you're asking people to pay $8 a month for it. It makes no sense. It it's just, if you had to do this, there was a much smarter way to do it.

Leo Laporte (00:19:04):
I think one of the people fired was the person who writes the notes for the Is iOS update <laugh>. Cause I think this time, and Micah, thank you for pointing this out. Elon Musk wrote these, What's new starting today? We're adding great new features to TWiTtter Blue and we have more on the way soon. Get TWiTtter blue for 7 99 a month if you sign up Now. Is that actually then I heard that it wasn't, everybody wasn't getting that option that they're rolling it out Blue Check Mark Colon power to the people Colon, your, Oh God. Your account will get a blue check mark. Just like the celebrities companies and politicians, you already follow speaking as a blue check mark person. I will be losing my blue check mark in three months. So thank you very much. Coming soon. Half the ads ampersand. Much better ones,

Christina Warren (00:19:51):
Right? Sure.

Leo Laporte (00:19:52):
Well a better a I'm

Christina Warren (00:19:53):
Glad they're not Well, I mean all the advertisers are also big accounts are pausing or leaving. Some of them maybe understand on the call with him when as he was trying to calm advertisers down. This is according to Kara Swisher, the advertising community was kind of so turned off. They were like, Yeah, so we're gonna pause our spend. Yeah. Because

Leo Laporte (00:20:12):
We don't have, Well, Elon fired the person who liaised with these people.

Christina Warren (00:20:15):
Oh no, no. She quit. Oh my God. She quit. She quit. She basically said, We're still committed to these things. And then I guess after two days she was like, Actually, you know what? Bye <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:20:23):
Then he forced New York to meet with advertisers without her. Right? Because she quit and takes the meeting himself. The Swisher was saying that people were saying in the meeting, Elon seemed distracted, unprepared just the usual kind of off the cuff bs. At which point advertisers literally paused the meeting typed to their cmo. Let's not buy anymore ads for a little bit. Oh my God. So half the ads, but much better ones. According to this anonymous writer, since you're supporting TWiTtter. TWiTtter in the battle against the bots. Oh, I didn't know that's what the eight bucks did. We're gonna reward you with half the ads and make them TWiTce as relevant. Okay. What Post longer videos. You'll finally be able to post longer videos to TWiTtter, by the way. There should be a dot that's not in this update, but we're gonna do that eventually.

Christina Warren (00:21:15):
Priority ranking

Leo Laporte (00:21:15):
For quality content. Okay. He said this, I don't understand what that means. Your content. If you pay eight bucks, by the way, who's gonna pay eight bucks? Kanye, Christina Warren.

Simone de Rochefort (00:21:25):
Christina Warren.

Christina Warren (00:21:25):
I mean Christina Warren. Absolutely. Well,

Leo Laporte (00:21:26):
You gonna

Christina Warren (00:21:27):
Pay eight bucks. Yeah, absolutely. Really? I already pay for TWiTtter Blue. I'm not gonna understand. That's three bucks. I know, but then I think they changed the price. I don't even know how much I pay a Yes.

Leo Laporte (00:21:36):
It was 4 99 then three. It was 2 99, then it was 4 99, Right? 7 99.

Christina Warren (00:21:41):
And I think I've been paying 3 99 or 2 99. I don't know. Yes. I will pay $8, $20. I might have Brianna. $8. Yes.

Brianna Wu (00:21:48):
$8. I, I'm with Christina. I already subscribed to TWiTtter, Blue and I, I've gotten so much out of TWiTtter for my career and I'm there to go viral into it. It's beneficial to my career and the things I wanna do. But isn't

Leo Laporte (00:22:02):
That where

Brianna Wu (00:22:03):
You were a

Leo Laporte (00:22:04):
Month most detect and Gamer Gate was on TWiTtter?

Brianna Wu (00:22:06):
A hundred percent. TWiTtter is, it's the bane of my existence and it's also a critical tool for me to get through my day. And it's hard. But that algorithm, Christine is

Leo Laporte (00:22:20):
On TWiTtter right now. Yeah.

Christina Warren (00:22:22):
I look, I can't quit it. Okay.

Leo Laporte (00:22:25):
Can I just say something and I don't wanna say this is the kindest way. Sure, possible. You sound like Stockholm syndrome. I'm not wrong. You sound like cigarette addicts <affirmative>, who are trying to give up something that's bad, painfully bad for

Christina Warren (00:22:40):
You. You're not in any way wrong. But I also, It is hilarious, awful, wonderful. Amazing things happen. Can't let it go. Well it's just look at a certain point if the people who I'm on the platform for which make it worth being on go away if the culture goes away, but just ridiculous, stupid things will happen that only happen on TWiTtter. And

Leo Laporte (00:23:00):
There is some cultural thing going

Christina Warren (00:23:01):
On. There is a cultural thing going on. And even now as it's breaking down, the fact that it's happening on TWiTtter is in and of itself, like the car crash you can't turn away from. So as I've been joking, I will be playing near my God as this goes down until into the seat,

Simone de Rochefort (00:23:19):
You'll be dancing on the deck at the Titanic <affirmative>. I have thoughts about this cuz

Christina Warren (00:23:23):
While I

Simone de Rochefort (00:23:24):
Absolutely, I am very sad about everyone who has lost their job at TWiTtter. I do think there's something very special and interesting about a website that is fundamentally broken. And TWiTtter has been that in a lot of ways for many years in ways that TWiTtter itself has been actively trying to fix when it comes to addressing harassment and misinformation and all of these incredibly important things that make the website more humane to be on. However, as a person who is on Tumblr right now, a website that is fantastically broken and has a strange community that feels like they've been through something together, there's something in me that is excited for that era of TWiTtter. Cuz I don't think it's going to die. If it dies, it won't die right away. The people who are in it for the long haul, you, Christina, they're sticking around. And until they go away, TWiTtter will continue to exist in some form or other. And I think we're just going to see it kind of evolve in strange and fascinating ways. And I'm interested in that, not in a car crash kind of way, but in what happens to this community, what does it turn into? And I think maybe it only becomes a problem because there are so many high profile people there and because there's so much potential for misinformation. So it's not all fun in games. But I do think it's fascinating. It

Leo Laporte (00:24:42):
Is possible that it could technically fail if you fire half. Oh yeah. The people, if you don't fire the right half.

Christina Warren (00:24:48):
Sure. Oh, see, Honestly, to me, I think that, So a week ago when this stuff happened, if you had asked me what are the chances of TWiTtter literally kind of catching on fire and a lot of people moving off and it dying very quickly. I've been like, Look, I'll see you all in two days. Everybody's moving to Mass Islands like CT in five minutes, right? You're gonna be back on in half an hour. You're gonna do the same thing that as we were talking free show all of us have done. We sign up for these services, we use them, and then we go back to what we know. But seeing how this was handled, seeing some of the changes that they claim they aren't making. But now there's no one to keep things running. Knowing things that I've heard about how the internal code bases of TWiTtter has been handled.

I do have very real questions of which is this site going to be able to remain up? And where's the institutional knowledge and what's going to happen? And even though they laid off fewer people on the trust and safety team, that doesn't mean that there aren't still other people on. What are you doing to prevent fraud? Like Lon says he wants to get rid of the bots, but are you employing the people who were going to do a good job with that, right? Or is this going to become overrun? So I don't know. I think that you're right. I think there's a very real possibility that it could break down technologically. I also think, and this is a total 180 from where I was a week ago, that it is much more likely that things could get worse much more quickly than I thought.

Brianna Wu (00:26:11):
Yeah, the

Simone de Rochefort (00:26:12):
Midterms a big test.

Brianna Wu (00:26:13):
I also, Oh, go ahead Simon.

Simone de Rochefort (00:26:16):
I was just gonna say the midterms next week is where we're gonna see that tested for the first time. Probably

Brianna Wu (00:26:21):
A hundred percent. I think TWiTtter, just like Tesla is facing a huge amount of competition. I think TikTok really opened up the door that, you know, could have people come in with a better product and get a real foothold. TikTok got a foothold by not just focusing on Gen Z, but by making it a pleasant place to spend time. If you're on TikTok, there's not just this barrage of negativity that you get with TWiTtter. I think if you had those half of people that quit at TWiTtter and they went and started something that was just like, Look, TWiTtter is a technical product, is utterly fungible. And they said, we are gonna put trust and safety first. That is our primary mission objective. And on top of that, we're gonna verify the journalists and we're going to tweak the algorithm. So it's more about broadcasting current events other than tweet dunks on everybody. <affirmative>. I think the real problem is TWiTtter is not a pleasant place to spend time. It's a tool that all of us need and for major events, it's a lot of fun. There have been days on TWiTtter is just the best thing that's ever happened when someone makes a huge mistake. Do you remember the Will Smith slap thing? That was a great day on TWiTtter.

Christina Warren (00:27:41):
Would you guys remember the greatest day in the history of online? Which was when the Lamas escaped and then the Lamas dress happened

Leo Laporte (00:27:49):
At on the same day. Dress in

Christina Warren (00:27:52):
And the Lamas. That was the greatest day in the history of online and TWiTtter was amazing. So wonderful. I thought you were gonna say I think

Leo Laporte (00:27:59):
You guys have mush mines from watching too much Gilligans Island. They need too much God candy.

Christina Warren (00:28:06):
Definitely. Yeah. That's a show that I've seen got garbage culture. Yes.

Leo Laporte (00:28:10):
This is garbage

Christina Warren (00:28:11):
Cultures. It's absolutely garbage. And we are garbage.

Leo Laporte (00:28:14):
It's good for you. You're not garbage people.

Christina Warren (00:28:16):
No, but we are and a no

Leo Laporte (00:28:18):
You're not. You deserve better than Lamas escaping and blue gold dresses. You deserve better.

Brianna Wu (00:28:26):
And you listen to the show. Do you know how many episodes we've had on Anna Delphy?

Christina Warren (00:28:32):
Wait, I wanna know what Leo's best day on TWiTtter was. Yeah. What was your best day on TWiTtter?

Leo Laporte (00:28:37):
No, I've had nothing but bad days on TWiTtter because, well, in fact, one of the reasons I pulled back from TWiTtter was I realized, and I think some of you have not yet realized this, that the only thing you can do on TWiTtter is get in trouble. That it's very hard not to get in trouble. Because what happens is TWiTtter's designed to get you in trouble and what you put on TWiTtter feels like it's quick, it's fast, it's gone immediately. And it's not, It lives forever. So I think for most people, TWiTtter ends up being a dangerous place. And I include Elon Musk in this. I include myself. I stopped tweeting on TWiTtter cuz I got in a fight with somebody. It really wraps you up and winds you up and you get in a fight and then a day later you go, What have I done? You don't have those experiences.

Christina Warren (00:29:27):
No, you definitely do. But I will push back a little bit because all those things are accurate and are true. But I think that, and look, this isn't exclusively true of TWiTtter. This could be true of any other network where you can really build relationships with people. But I've genuinely met people like Micah Sergeant who is in this room right now in the audience. He and I are friends and started doing a podcast together and got to know each other because of TWiTtter Brianna w, Simone, d Roo, and I, because of social networks, I've built real relationships, I've gotten jobs, I've had really conversations with people that I would've never, I otherwise had a chance to meet. Even through things like TWiTtter spaces, when that debuted during the pandemic, I met a great group of people that I talk to all the time because of Animal Crossing and a TWiTtter DM group. There are people that I used, some of them I worked with at Microsoft, some of them I didn't, who we all got to know each other. There are, I think real community and relationship things that happen in addition to the fights. And I do agree with you that yes, it's probably is optimized to get you in trouble, but there's really good things that are of this too.

Leo Laporte (00:30:32):
I mean, social networks are good for all that. I agree. And I guess it wouldn't be as good if we were a small network.

So you need some global network to meet people and to find affinity groups and all that. I guess you have to have, And the problem of course with all social networks is the bigger they get, the more wild and unmanageable and problematic they get. Right. We've seen this again and again and once a small social network. We were talking before we began the show about prior failed social networks like Path or Pounce or Jaiku. And they were all great cuz they were small and but as if they had gone to the size of TWiTtter, they would've been as bad as TWiTtter of

Christina Warren (00:31:13):
Course. Right? Yeah. I mean, or worse. And there's probably a balance, right? There probably is. Maybe that perfect spot when it's big enough to incorporate a bunch of different types of people but not so big that it becomes accessful. Right.

Simone de Rochefort (00:31:27):
And there's the problem because they're trying to make these websites continually bigger and bring in more users so they can more make money. Which does make sense because websites need to make money. But I don't think anyone is properly solved. The question of how do we continue growing and make this community global and enormous without making everyone be at each other's throats all the time.

Leo Laporte (00:31:48):
TWiTtter probably did the best job, right?

Simone de Rochefort (00:31:50):
Oh, the Lama. Yes. Lama

Christina Warren (00:31:53):
Day. Oh my God. This was the greatest moment ever. TWiTtter

Simone de Rochefort (00:31:56):
Was set up to do a really good job. I mean, with all these teams that have now been gutted. Sorry, I'll let us watch the Lama cuz we

Leo Laporte (00:32:03):
No, no, no. Most people are listening. The rest of them are being distracted by the sight of a guy chasing a very adorable looking black lama

Simone de Rochefort (00:32:11):
Around city. I do wanna talk about Lamas really, because I think that they are one of the few mammals that you can look into their eyes and see. No, no love there. No understanding. They are creatures that are kind of disdain for you. Yeah. I don't like, Has anyone ever met a loving lama?

Leo Laporte (00:32:30):
No. They spit. They're gro Grouch. Thank you. Yeah. Grouchy. Yeah. No, don't confuse Alma with a What's the cute one? Alpaca. Alpaca. Alpacas. Cause those are human. Yeah,

Christina Warren (00:32:41):
Those are really sweet.

Leo Laporte (00:32:42):
Yeah. But laas know Laas are, Can I say asshole? No. No. Okay.

Christina Warren (00:32:47):
Well <laugh>,

Brianna Wu (00:32:49):
I've got some breaking news. Yes, I have some breaking news. Lamas of escapes. Elon Musk has just tweeted, tweet tweeted that going forward, any TWiTtter handle engaging impersonation without clearly specifying their parody will be permanently suspended.

Leo Laporte (00:33:06):
Why? He said that clearly. Because everyone's him. Everybody's becoming Elon Musk.

Brianna Wu (00:33:10):
Everyone is. Everyone's renaming it. And I gotta say, this is the hypocrisy of this dude. Yes. Like he says he wants free speech and then people are go, or he's the butt of the joke and that's when he shut it down.

Leo Laporte (00:33:24):
Everybody's been testing content moderation by changing, not their hand, their TWiT handle, but their niche. They're explaining, Yeah, true. Elon Musk adding a blue check, putting the same picture and then saying outrageous things. And apparently they've gotten under the skin of Elon and now he said, Well no, that's not gonna happen. And this is gonna be exactly the problem. Is it? Yes. This is really Elon's fiefdom, <affirmative>. So there's two things that Elon could do with TWiTtter trying to get his money back. Not gonna happen, but he could try. Yeah. Paula, shut up. Turn it into some something that maybe investors might say, Oh, this is the new TWiTtter call

Christina Warren (00:34:00):
The private equity people in. And

Leo Laporte (00:34:02):
I don't think private equity, I think ipo. Cuz you're more dumb people in IPO than private equity. Oh no, I He's already got private equity. He's got 13 billion. He's got a billion dollar a year vi.

Christina Warren (00:34:12):
No, I'm just thinking if he wants to get out of this as soon as possible,

Leo Laporte (00:34:15):
Nobody's gonna buy it from him. This was the whole problem. TWiTtter it for tri. Well, yeah, TWiTtter had been trying to sell itself for years and nobody would buy it. Along comes this cuckoo million billionaire, I'll give you 44 billion. What? Okay, sure. Yeah. Nobody's gonna, So maybe polishes the turd in IPOs or maybe he really wants the influence, the power that TWiTtter could give him. Certainly gave Donald Trump the presidency.

Christina Warren (00:34:46):
Right? Sure. Although I think there's a question to then be had, which is does that influence remain if it turns into all the people and the programs that made it what it is, if they go away and if it becomes this fiefdom.

Leo Laporte (00:34:58):
No, he's Philip Morris. He's got you guys hooked already. Well, no, but so all he has to do is keep feeding you the nick. Well, and you're gonna stay on. Well,

Christina Warren (00:35:05):
We're hooked. But at the same time, I will say be genuinely, and I say this as somebody who I just said, I'm gonna go down with the Titanic with this thing. Yes, I will. But I'm also going to add a caveat that which is that if people that I get a good experience with, and I'm not talking about the good experience of when we all are mad at someone, but the genuinely good experiences, if that goes away, I might still check in, but I'm not going to be active. Right. That's a different sort of thing. So

Leo Laporte (00:35:32):
Yeah, I mean still read it, right, but that still means it has influence. You're a journalist. Well you're not a journalist anymore, but you were. Well yeah, right. Sure. Lots of journalists, they will read it. They will amplify. The New York Times will still publish tweets.

Christina Warren (00:35:43):
Well, I mean, that's what I'm saying. I think we'll see. Because if the people that would be doing notable things go away, if it's just his echo chamber, then I don't know if the culture remains the same. Well

Leo Laporte (00:35:54):
He's just about, if that happens, he can't polish the turd and sell it and they won't have any influence, then he is really outta luck. Then Neil Eli Patel's. Correct. And he's entered his own impossible Hobson's choice. It's a Hellscape. Yeah,

Brianna Wu (00:36:08):
<affirmative>. I genuinely believe some team is gonna come forward and they're gonna do the things that the reasonable people on TWiTtter have been asking for years. Better trust and safety, more transparent policies, lowering the toxicity, tweaking the algorithm. So it's less about outrage and more about positive conversation. There is definitely a space for a product like that. I think journalists generally speaking or interested in getting their stories out to people and looking at sources. And I think that the credible people that TWiTtter is basically provide the content that makes TWiTtter worthwhile. I think increasingly they're gonna look at the way Elon is running this thing and they're gonna be looking for alternatives. And I think there's ample space for a competitor there. There is

Leo Laporte (00:36:57):
One yet though, right? There's nobody that's a reasonable competitor. Not in Facebook.

Brianna Wu (00:37:03):
I do wanna say, I signed up for Macon on a whim and look, we've criticized it plenty on our show. It is hard to access. The onboarding gets an F minus. But I have to say the conversations I'm having on there because of the technical barrier to signing up for it, like again. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:37:24):
It's technical. We've run a, you didn't know this, but we've run a Macon instance for some years TWiTtter social.

Brianna Wu (00:37:29):
I've been really impressed with it

Leo Laporte (00:37:31):
So far. And I'm a little nervous about actually enticing people from TWiTtter to come over. I don't want it to turn into the next TWiTtter. I think that would be, In fact, I kind of tell people, tone it down. This isn't the same place. Get to know the culture before you start doing the same stuff. I'm a little nervous actually about mass on attempting to become TWiTtter. It has some structural things that will keep it from that. The Federation is great. I run a instance. You run an instance <affirmative>, they run an instance and you can block instances you don't like. You can have different rules who to follow. You can have different rules. In a way you could do what I was saying, which is create a small personal space that still connects to a larger global space is And that's what Blue Sky, by the way, Jack Dorsey's attempt to create a federated TWiTtter is all about. Do you think Blue Sky is gonna be come along and be a replacement? I signed up for the beta. Don't have an invite yet.

Christina Warren (00:38:28):
Same. I don't have an invite either. And I was mean to Jack Dorsey on TWiTtter yesterday, so I probably won't get You were early.

Leo Laporte (00:38:34):
What'd you say to Jack?

Simone de Rochefort (00:38:35):
You picked a fight with Jack.

Leo Laporte (00:38:36):
Jack said, I grew it too fast, it's my fault.

Christina Warren (00:38:39):
And I basically said that that was a little bit too late for the thousands of people that were laid off. But anyway,

Leo Laporte (00:38:44):
Jack has a massive stake still. Oh, I know. In Elon's TWiTtter. I

Christina Warren (00:38:48):
Know he does. I know he does. Yeah. And anyway, anyway, so I hope I look that things like Blue Sky and Macon and others have a lot of potential. I think that, I don't think Jack was wrong when he said that he'd wished that TWiTtter had always been a protocol. I do feel like that's a little bit of false. Looking back, what he's saying doesn't really match with the reality of what his decisions were when he was CEO of TWiTtter both times. Right, because he made

Leo Laporte (00:39:16):
Decisions. Well, revisionist history

Christina Warren (00:39:18):
Though, that's the word I was looking for. He's a lot of revisionist history. But I'm not opposed to those things in theory. But it still doesn't, The challenge you'll still have is even though you can have these multiple instances, there will be one instance that becomes the centralized place. Just like with anything else, there will be a centralized hub.

Leo Laporte (00:39:37):
There has to be always

Christina Warren (00:39:39):
Mean. Same thing with Bitcoin, like Coinbase and financing. It

Leo Laporte (00:39:43):
Always happens always for fts it was open C. Exactly. It always

Christina Warren (00:39:46):
Happens. And so the problem with that is that once something becomes the defacto home or the largest place, you still face the same challenges that you would face it. It was TWiTtter, right? With how do we moderate, how do we enforce things? How do we grow, how do we keep different opinions without allowing harassment?

Leo Laporte (00:40:05):
Do we have to have somewhere like that? We need a, what do they call it? The public square do. I don't know if TWiTtter's the public square. It's the closest thing to the public square, I guess. We used to have Walter Cronkite, we used to do three television network. Everybody watched the same TV show. So there was this certain community within the US

Christina Warren (00:40:25):
And certain hee too,

Leo Laporte (00:40:27):
Right? Yeah. Well it was bad because obviously it was cb. If you watch Walter Cronkite, famously was the guy who ended the Vietnam War because he lost faith in President Johnson's plans in Vietnam. And he said it on his broadcast and that was that Uncle Walter said, It's a bad idea. Everybody changed their mind. Protests had gone on for years. I marched. It was a big deal. <affirmative> didn't change America until Uncle Walter said. So we don't have that anymore. We don't have a central place. And I do. We need one.

Simone de Rochefort (00:41:06):
I am torn. Cuz obviously I dislike the idea of any particular organization like holding the keys to America's psyche. On the other hand, what we have seen over the internet over the last 10 years or so is just a fracturing into different realities where you can completely curate what you believe and ignore, curate. Curate the facts that you're ingesting. And I really don't have anything positive to say about that. I don't really see Do you think I

Leo Laporte (00:41:43):
Know's as a result of this lack of centrality that now we've got Andon believers and there's no, But

Simone de Rochefort (00:41:49):
Then who gets to decide what the central reality

Leo Laporte (00:41:52):
Is? Well, yeah, he didn't want, I mean it a big corporation that decided that that's obviously not, Yeah, maybe he's gonna be a guy like Elon Musk that's gonna decide that that's Walter

Simone de Rochefort (00:42:00):
Cronkite still alive. And if not, could we resurrect him? Yeah let's think about that.

Leo Laporte (00:42:05):
I could do a good Walter Cronkite. Maybe we all do that.

Simone de Rochefort (00:42:08):
Okay. Whoa. Walter Cronkite. Deep fake. I just fixed America. Oh my gosh. You're welcome. You're welcome.

Leo Laporte (00:42:15):
Just you understand though, that's why a certain generation is terrified of TikTok because they're afraid that TikTok could become that centrality, that our beliefs could come from TikTok.

Simone de Rochefort (00:42:26):
Absolutely. I completely agree. I think we have a TikTok story today that we're gonna talk about, but okay, so there's a phrase that flies around on the internet now, which is our parents were radicalized by Fox News. Gen Z is being radicalized by TikTok. And I think in some ways that's true. I like TikTok as a platform. I think there's a lot of good stuff on TikTok, but it's true that there are large parts of the population that are getting news and of other recommendations from TikTok in from people who are incentivized to make the loudest and most divisive content possible. And that's another problem that I don't have an answer

Leo Laporte (00:43:05):
To. Is it the Chinese Communist Party though that's doing that or

Simone de Rochefort (00:43:08):
No, it's not. The call is coming from inside the house. No, exactly for the problem. Loves

Brianna Wu (00:43:14):
It. I don't

Simone de Rochefort (00:43:15):

Leo Laporte (00:43:15):
Exactly agree

Simone de Rochefort (00:43:16):

Brianna Wu (00:43:17):
I don't necessarily agree with that. I mean, I think if you wanna zoom out and look at this issue from 30,000 feet, we are in a global information war that's taking place every single second of every single day. And we are losing that war 4 billion. We meaning democracy like it is. So the incentives on social media is exactly as profitable for Facebook and TWiTtter and Reddit and YouTube to pump out false information as it is true information. There's nothing there to fact check it. And because of that, you have strong men all around the world that are weaponizing these incentives and are ideals against us. I mean, Democra fundamentally depend on a free flow of information so people can make decisions. We have so much garbage in the zone today because of what are essentially information weapons, factories that, I mean this is why it's not just the United States struggling with this point to a democracy. We're all struggling with this. And I think mean, I've been saying this for years, Christina, I disagree on it, but I think you've got to aggressively regulate social media. I think there's got to be some question at some point. Is this good for national unity? Is it good for democracy?

Leo Laporte (00:44:36):
But isn't that what the US authoritarians are doing is regulating social media

Christina Warren (00:44:40):
That that's

Leo Laporte (00:44:40):
Exactly it. Countries

Christina Warren (00:44:42):
We say there's a way to, the regulation we like isn't going to align with the regulation that another administration might like, even in our own <affirmative> like that. That's my fear

Leo Laporte (00:44:50):
With that. I don't know what the answer is. I understand the conflict and you're right. The only way we as a society have of exerting our will is through government and law. But that seems to Brianna, I think it feels like it's failed and it's in the process of falling apart. And so you can't be sure which government <laugh> is gonna do that. And as a result, I mean I don't think that corporations should do it either. No, I don't know. I don't if there's an answer. That's the problem.

Brianna Wu (00:45:25):
Scott turnoff

Christina Warren (00:45:26):

Brianna Wu (00:45:26):
Internet agree with this necessarily. But Scott Galloway had a really interesting piece out last week. I'm not

Leo Laporte (00:45:32):
Made up my he unmasked on now let me check his master on account here real quick. Go

Brianna Wu (00:45:36):
Ahead. So he was talking about how one of the ways we've combated the financing of terrorism around the world is through know your Customer lots. And he was talking about how maybe it's time for social media companies to know their customer. It's not saying you have to use your real name. It's not saying they're gonna out you. It's saying that there's some check along the way to make sure that you're a real authentic person there. I'm interested in that idea. That's interesting. I don't agree with this premise that, look, it's complicated. It's difficult for free speech. Anyone that understands this issue agrees with that. But I don't agree that the best course, the wisest course of action is to continue doing nothing. We are f if we stay this course, <affirmative>, <affirmative> and we've gotta try something

Leo Laporte (00:46:22):
That's fair as well. But a real names policy isn't gonna do

Brianna Wu (00:46:28):
Everything. Not real name your customer. So making sure that there is a real person behind that account at some point.

Leo Laporte (00:46:37):
We do that on our socials. We allow handles <affirmative>, but I and I don't go out and verify people, but we kind of pay attention to who you are and where you come from and stuff. So we know there's a real person. I'm not against bots by the way. I have bots on TWiTtter.

Christina Warren (00:46:54):
I think the bots can have value, right? Yeah. There's a difference between spam, which is really what he's talking about. And bots which can have a specific

Leo Laporte (00:47:02):
Purpose and influence bots which are created by Russian troll farms, for instance.

Christina Warren (00:47:07):
Correct? Fair. Fair.

Leo Laporte (00:47:08):
Right. There are thousands of accounts created by Yes.

Christina Warren (00:47:11):
I don't think Elan cares about those

Leo Laporte (00:47:13):
At all. Oh, he doesn't care about that.

Christina Warren (00:47:15):
What he cares about are the spam ones that are making things unpleasant for him.

Leo Laporte (00:47:20):
Spams easy to get rid of. It's not illegal. You don't do it by law. But if, I mean, I filter spam on our Macon account. If I see spam, I cancel the person very happily. Don't mean,

Simone de Rochefort (00:47:33):
Oh my God. Leo LaPorte Pro Cancel culture.

Leo Laporte (00:47:36):
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<laugh>. I'm sure they're gonna want these back. But <laugh>, I can think of so many things that we could do with this. Just so cool. And I wish you could. It's built like a brick, right on Logic. You get started to learn more about on Logic's 30 day risk-free hardware trial. Visit on on I don't, I'm a little weird, but this is the kind of thing that gets me drooling <laugh>. I just go, Oh, it's so cool. Oh, I can think all sorts of things we could do with these Thank you on logic for your support. You're supporting TWiT, by the way, by using that address. So make sure you do it on Enough TWiTtter.

Christina Warren (00:52:00):

Leo Laporte (00:52:01):
Never. Right? Never, never, never. We want more TWiTtter.

Christina Warren (00:52:05):
No, I think we're, yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:52:06):
We TWiTttered out.

Christina Warren (00:52:07):
We might be. I mean especially now that he's all that TWiTtter is right now is just everyone changing their handle to Alon Musk since he said that he's gonna ban impersonations.

Leo Laporte (00:52:16):
Oh you, Is it now a spreading Yes. <laugh>.

Christina Warren (00:52:20):
It's very,

Leo Laporte (00:52:20):
Oh yeah. How, Okay, let's take some bits. How long before you start feeling sorry for bore El? No,

Christina Warren (00:52:27):
Never. I know <laugh> never. He's a billionaire.

Brianna Wu (00:52:31):
Never <laugh>. If I was a billionaire, do you think I would ever, I mean, I'd be on the spaceship. Tomorrows every weekend.

Leo Laporte (00:52:41):
So here's the thing, I think we underestimate how much fame and fortune disturbs the human mind. <affirmative>, <affirmative>. We've got lots of evidence of it. We

Christina Warren (00:52:53):

Leo Laporte (00:52:55):
There's like very few exceptions. Taylor Swift is an exception. She seems like a real great normal person who survived her fame. But then for every Taylor Swift there's a Justin Bieber or a Madonna or on and on and on. Poor Lady Gaga, I'm sure driven mad by her fame and fortune. It's just not a natural thing. And I think very few people in the three comic club have survived that.

Christina Warren (00:53:20):
It has to be hard when you have so many people who want things from you and are willing to tell you so many things you want to hear. And you're treated so differently. And

Leo Laporte (00:53:31):
He thinks he's a many billionaires and Elon's in this group think they're a genius cuz they're a billionaire, right?

Simone de Rochefort (00:53:37):
<affirmative>. <affirmative>. Well

Christina Warren (00:53:38):
He is a very smart guy. But there are smart people as I think we've all probably experienced this, who overestimate their intelligence and think that because I'm very smart about one thing, that means that I know everything about everything.

Leo Laporte (00:53:48):
Is that the Dunning Kruger effect?

Christina Warren (00:53:50):
Yeah, I think so.

Leo Laporte (00:53:51):
Where you think,

Brianna Wu (00:53:52):
I saw a study in, I saw a study in Harvard Business Review that I always think of when this comes up. Said they looked at the ultra wealthy and what happens to your brain when the physical concerns of the world are no longer something you have to stress on a daily

Leo Laporte (00:54:08):
Basis. Oh, you're at the top of Maslow's Pyramid. So a hundred percent life is great. You're gonna self actuate by becoming an edge, Lord.

Brianna Wu (00:54:17):
Yeah. Well, what they found is, in all of these cases, or many of these cases, the very skills that made you successful in the first place, the ability to read people, the ability to understand people, the ability to sense discomfort, those skills that help you get a footing in life, you become associates. Those become eroded a hundred percent. Oh,

Simone de Rochefort (00:54:40):

Brianna Wu (00:54:41):
Unable to sense people's emotions and you become narcissistic at the same time.

Leo Laporte (00:54:46):
So yeah, you no longer have sympathy.

Simone de Rochefort (00:54:49):
Yeah. I would simply buy a Formula One team. Yeah,

Christina Warren (00:54:52):
You would. And now would you try to run the team,

Simone de Rochefort (00:54:55):
Simone? No. This is the question. Well, depends on how rich I am.

Leo Laporte (00:54:58):
But you hang out in the pit. I know you would. But if you're, You would. But

Simone de Rochefort (00:55:01):
If you're

Christina Warren (00:55:02):
Rich enough to own the team and you're rich enough to buy it, would you then go to the place where you're like, Well, I'm going to run this the way I want. Or do you hire someone else and trust this? Do

Simone de Rochefort (00:55:10):
It. Well, that's the thing. I start off hiring someone to run it myself. But as I become more and more wealthy, my ability to discern the truth erodes. And then I say, I'm gonna run the team. Right. So become the later. Yeah. I am the problem. Yeah, absolutely.

Leo Laporte (00:55:25):
I guess what happened to Toto?

Simone de Rochefort (00:55:27):
No. How? Oh my God. Don't even slander Toto wolf in front of me. <laugh>. I'm sorry, I just yelled. <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:55:37):
I think I've a

Simone de Rochefort (00:55:39):
Little bit, a little. I love this. Yeah. I think you broke Mercedes problems this year, I think are entirely the results of some of their top engineers. Not like having the time to work on the car and then also the decreased a time. So what happened? I think they're gonna come back in 2023 with a good car.

Leo Laporte (00:55:55):
What happened to Ferrari though?

Simone de Rochefort (00:55:58):
Oh, <laugh>. What hasn't happened? Don't. That's just being Italian

Leo Laporte (00:56:03):
Now. I'm playing to the crowd. I, I'm like winding her up.

Simone de Rochefort (00:56:06):
You are? This is so

Christina Warren (00:56:07):
Good. This is so good. I'm enjoying this

Simone de Rochefort (00:56:09):
So much. <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:56:11):

Brianna Wu (00:56:11):
Think those, that knowledge of F1 could come in handy later.

Leo Laporte (00:56:15):
La Oh, okay. Interesting.

Brianna Wu (00:56:17):

Leo Laporte (00:56:17):
Yeah. When do you wanna do whatever this thing is that you're gonna do? I'm

Brianna Wu (00:56:21):
Ready for it now. If you are,

Leo Laporte (00:56:23):
Let's save it for after the next break. How about that? All right. Cause I have a few more things to talk about. God damn. Oh yeah. Did you by the way? Okay. Who's an expert in League of Legends? Not me, unfortunately. But I'm ready to talk about it. You guys are gamers, so I know. So the big event was here in San Francisco, the Chase Center What do they call it? The world? The World. I don't know. They have a special name for it. Worlds. Just Worlds. That's all. Just worlds. Okay. Apparently Anto is a LOL fan.

Oh, this was your beat. Yeah. Cuz you were a TWiTtch. Right. So I'm very fascinated by to eSports partly because my generation, I'm an old man. My generation we're the Walter Cro generation <laugh>. We watched baseball for crying out loud before it was broken. I don't know, I think it was always that way. It just, it's very slow. I think that there's a whole generation under 30 that doesn't know or care anything about nightly news or even the NFL or f1. This generation is much more interested in YouTube, <affirmative> and TWiTtch and TikTok. And I think e-sports is very, very interesting. And I think many, many networks, The worlds were sponsored by MasterCard.

The big event was at Chase Center, which is a massive, it's where the Warriors play. I think 20 or 30,000 people there. Benito, did you watch the opening ceremony? Oh my God, I had not. Now apparently they do this every year. There was a big deal because they hadn't been able to gather in person for a couple of years, which is what was, That's was Can I play this or am I gonna get in trouble? Oh, go ahead. You can edit it out later. So John, this is where we saw Roger Waters just a month ago. So we know the kind of arena they did. The similar thing they had. I'll turn off the audio, but except the audio's kind of the fun part. I don't know. So this is a giant arena. They have a screen that is covering up hiding where the gaming is gonna occur. They're doing a countdown.

They have three major celebrities to sing the song at the end. Little Nas X shows up of course, and then flies out of the arena in the palm of a hand of a giant mech. I mean this is the Olympics opening ceremony. Totally with I saw the stats. I mean they have something like a 40, 30 K projectors. They have hundreds of cameras. They have holographic projection, They have a real live musical audience. I mean a musical orchestra. This is a big deal, <affirmative>. And it kind of blew me away when I, I'll skip ahead a little bit. They've got dancers.

Christina Warren (00:59:38):
Yeah, no, it's a whole

Leo Laporte (00:59:39):
Thing. Wait to wait till the team is, the teams are gonna show up, which is hysterical. Cuz the funny thing is these guys are still six absolute nerds, right? <laugh>. I think the team rises up out of the stage here and shows up. Let me scoot ahead a little bit to the I don't know, maybe I, I've gone past, Here they are. Here's the nerds <laugh>. And what they're trying to do obviously is turn these guys who have probably very little social acumen into, but probably F1 drivers are equally nerdy.

Christina Warren (01:00:16):
Actually though I would push back on that a little bit. Some of these streamers eSports guys have,

Leo Laporte (01:00:20):
They're pretty sharp

Christina Warren (01:00:21):
And they're on TWiTtch all the time and they have personalities and they, they've built brands for themselves. Not all of them, but many of them. And many of those teams. Similar to the way that you have the one kind of charismatic F1 maybe.

Leo Laporte (01:00:32):
Yeah. You don't get to be an F1 driver unless besides being the great driver you have. You're gorgeous. You're gorgeous. Come on. You

Christina Warren (01:00:40):
Have daddy's money

Leo Laporte (01:00:41):
To be or your Orlando Norris. But it doesn't

Christina Warren (01:00:45):
<laugh> because a brand has to be built behind you because this is more than just it. The same with any court sort of sport. You have to have a total package.

Leo Laporte (01:00:54):
And I guess I watched the World Series and these baseball players were disgusting actually. Literally this

Christina Warren (01:01:02):
Is my baseball is dying

Leo Laporte (01:01:03):
I think. So it's this little nasza singing a song that he wrote specifically for Leg of League of Legends worlds. I should turn this off cuz this will definitely take it taken down. Let me see if I can go. It's rocks. It's amazing. This is amazing. There

Christina Warren (01:01:20):
Were 5 million. Yeah, I wanna see the me, I think peak viewers, like 5 million Peak People were tuned in this

Leo Laporte (01:01:24):
At one time. They released a new trophy, which is when they show it for the first time. The crowd is obviously totally tuned in. Oh they go, oh my god. Which totally tuned into this. Oh, that's the new trophy. It it's really, I was blown away. <affirmative>. But this is a subculture, right? Still. Yeah.

Christina Warren (01:01:48):
Yes. <affirmative>.

Leo Laporte (01:01:50):
So this is kind of a continuation of the question earlier. Is there gonna be an NFL in 20 years, a central sport that we all follow or is it gonna be fragmented? Because people who follow, I dunno, what's the other game that I mean Doda over Counterstrike or Doda or Overwatch. Overwatch. Are they caring about League of Legis? You have to watch these. Gary goes, There's little naza going up into the roof on a giant mech hand, which actually is just projected on here. But still that's pretty cool. <laugh>.

Simone de Rochefort (01:02:23):
I mean that's awesome. That's

Christina Warren (01:02:25):
Very cool. That's

Brianna Wu (01:02:25):
Pretty cool. It's always gonna be fragmented in a way that gaming

Leo Laporte (01:02:28):
Is much more fragmented, isn't it?

Brianna Wu (01:02:30):
It is. Because you're always gonna have a new developer coming out trying to put a product to market that's gonna push things forward.

Leo Laporte (01:02:38):
I'm sorry, I have to correct myself. I slammed Landon Norris, I meant Lance Stroll. Obviously I could.

Simone de Rochefort (01:02:44):
Landon Norris also comes from Money. I was surprised that you didn't go to Lance

Leo Laporte (01:02:47):
First. I didn't say Nikita Ma pin. Which could have been really the Sorry, go ahead. Please continue.

Brianna Wu (01:02:52):
<laugh>. No, I was just gonna say Call of Duty Modern Warfare which is essentially a big dumb movie. I'm sorry Those can

Leo Laporte (01:03:01):
This new one. Model Warfare two, the new one, Model

Brianna Wu (01:03:03):
Warfare, two remake reboot or whatever you wanna call it, that made 800 million last week. That's a interest in end game level money. A hundred percent. This is huge business. So if you're looking at League of Legends, don't look at this as a extravagant, silly thing they're putting on, This is big business. I see that people, Yeah, hyped up. And one of the reasons I spend so much time speed running to the point where I have a PVM that I bought Nice 20 inch pvm. One of the reasons I spent so much time speed running is that is exploding as a legitimate sport. Oh, interesting. I'm trying for a spot with Gdq Game Stone Quick, which is the Super Bowls speed running very soon. I have an excellent shot of getting in. So I think all these e-sports, it's always gonna be more fragmented than pick football, baseball, basketball, <affirmative>. It's never gonna be like that. But there's certainly gonna be these towers of where you have real competitors. People respect.

Leo Laporte (01:04:08):
Will the NFL continue to be dominant in the next few decades?

Christina Warren (01:04:14):
I would not bet against it. I think that the NFL has a lot, puts a lot of money into things interesting about the nfl. Basketball has become a very international sport. The NFL is,

Leo Laporte (01:04:25):
They're trying

Christina Warren (01:04:26):
Right? They're the NFL is trying, but it hasn't really gone that way and it hasn't had to be frank. But there's still something compelling about it. I think it depends. I think that if things aren't handled it could fall off. But I would not bet against them because there's still, even when you look at the ratings now, which are down, honestly the worst thing the NFL could do would probably be to do more things like the Amazon Prime deal. You

Leo Laporte (01:04:49):
Think that was bad for them? <affirmative>? I do. Cause they I'm sure saw this as a way forward in the

Christina Warren (01:04:53):
Future. I'm sure they did. And I think they will need to do things in the future. But I think that siloing the thing into saying only people who are part of this can watch. I think that's the problem. I think that they probably would need to syndicate across some.

Leo Laporte (01:05:05):
It was surprising you have to have Amazon Prime to watch

Christina Warren (01:05:08):
A football football game. Exactly. Which is, that's the thing,

Simone de Rochefort (01:05:11):
It's kind of what we were talking about with TWiTtter Blue and paying for a check mark. It's hard to ask somebody to pay for something that

Christina Warren (01:05:17):
They're used to seeing, to having in a totally different context. Especially when the NFL also offers Sunday night tickets and other sorts of premium products for people to get more games if that's what they want. And to see more things. I think that then when you say we're going to put this one game, it used to be, it's one thing if it's on espn, right? Or if it's on Fox or abc, you can make, you know, can make the calculus there. But then just say, I have to be on this specific streaming service. I don't know. There

Leo Laporte (01:05:46):
Is a little struggle going on right now between Apple and the nfl. Apple wanted the Sunday ticket, which is a thing Direct TV currently has. Yes, a billion and a half dollars they spent for this. They lost their shirt on it, by the way. They didn't make any money so they said we're not gonna bid for this. Again. Apple, Google, Amazon all have deep pockets from other sources. So they can afford to spend a billion and a half a year or 2 billion a year on this thing. Which is basically, it's the Sunday games all would all, So you can watch any game

Christina Warren (01:06:17):
Unless it's in your markets. There are a couple of exceptions.

Leo Laporte (01:06:20):
This is another thing after that Screws itself. Totally. Yes. And now that they have a streaming app, NFL Plus,

Christina Warren (01:06:24):
And in that, I think that's where maybe you could get better. I mean that's gonna come down to certain BCA licensing things, but those are things they'll need to overcome. I think if they wanna survive in the decades will be to get out of their own way. They

Leo Laporte (01:06:35):
Could mess it up.

Christina Warren (01:06:36):
They could mess it up. But if they fix that, I don't think that I, the game is compelling enough and has a long, large enough of a fan base that people would continue to be into

Leo Laporte (01:06:46):
Football. The battle between NFL and Apple is rumored to be, and we don't know exactly what's going on. Certainly Apple's offered them as much money as they could ever dream of <laugh>. But the battle apparently, according to sources is that the NFL doesn't want to give up control. Apple wants to be able to do more correct and interesting things as they should, right? They're a technology company, they wanna play with streaming. This could be very good for Apple TV plus. And the NFL says, well I don't know. I don't know

Christina Warren (01:07:13):
About it. And the NFL is going, wait, this is our brand. So you have two control freak organizations going head to head with one another. Absolutely. And

Leo Laporte (01:07:20):
Because Major League Soccer said Apple, do whatever you want.

Christina Warren (01:07:22):
Absolutely. Major League soccer and Major League baseball has made nobody watch here but football. And part of the reason you could argue that the NFL has been so dominant in American sports over the last 30 years is because the league has had such control for

Leo Laporte (01:07:35):
Everything. But golf used to be big. Golf used to be the biggest thing growing thing. It's gone. Baseball, I have to say, after watching the World Series, I don't have much hope that Major League Baseball has much future.

Christina Warren (01:07:47):
But Formula one one is doing great. Formula

Leo Laporte (01:07:50):
One's coming up

Christina Warren (01:07:51):
Had a mass resurgence.

Leo Laporte (01:07:52):
And I'll ask Simone this, who waved the checker flag in Austin?

Christina Warren (01:07:57):
Tim, Timothy Cook.

Leo Laporte (01:07:59):

Christina Warren (01:08:00):
Cook. Mr. Tim was

Leo Laporte (01:08:01):
Waves life watching Croy

Christina Warren (01:08:03):
So bad later

Leo Laporte (01:08:04):
Play by play on espn, it's lights out in Austin. And then there's a picture of Ed Sheeran talking to somebody from F1, said there's Ed Sheeran talking to somebody one. But he didn't know that standing in between there was Eddie Q I'm going, Yeah.

Simone de Rochefort (01:08:19):
Oh no.

Leo Laporte (01:08:20):
And they didn't know. But Apple was there in force and I don't think Apple was there by accident. No, it was the same day. Maybe they do have a documentary coming Apple TV Plus, I think Apple was also saying, yes, we could help you guys. We could

Christina Warren (01:08:36):

Leo Laporte (01:08:37):
We could do something with this.

Christina Warren (01:08:39):

Leo Laporte (01:08:39):
It's a very technical sport.

Christina Warren (01:08:40):
It is a very technical sport. It would be lot of great things you could do with that. And I think that the reason that it has taken off in popularity is because of Netflix and because of ways that other people could come into understanding the backstory and get into it. Because this was something that I was only tally

Leo Laporte (01:08:57):
Made F1, didn't it?

Christina Warren (01:08:58):
If I think for certain sector Few in America. In America, cuz my husband is a huge Formula One fan and has been our whole relationship. And I, it's so funny to me that now it's like this thing that everyone likes

Leo Laporte (01:09:08):
The drive to survive

Christina Warren (01:09:09):
Because it was this thing that I used to just sort of one year come in one year go out the other that he would talk

Leo Laporte (01:09:15):
About. That's how you get people interested in a sport is you talk about the human. Yes,

Christina Warren (01:09:18):
The get the

Leo Laporte (01:09:19):
Narrative drama <affirmative>,

Simone de Rochefort (01:09:20):
Which story?

Christina Warren (01:09:21):
Which is one thing that the NFL films used to do really well, <affirmative>. And that a lot of the things that they got so much free air time on whatever network they had the relationships with that people would get sucked into the stories. And that's the same with college football as well. People get into the narratives behind the players and that carries them through. You know,

Leo Laporte (01:09:43):
Think women need that more than men?

Christina Warren (01:09:45):
No, I think that it's it. Everybody

Leo Laporte (01:09:47):
Know they try to do that with the Olympics and it's kind of a flop, right? The story behind the Well,

Christina Warren (01:09:53):
Cause the problem with the Olympics is it's every four years, so it's hard existence. You can't follow 'em. Right. Whereas with teams you have this week by week thing. But no, it's not just a women thing. Men, I mean, look Wrestling is still incredibly popular. It's a soap opera. Yes. It's incredibly popular. It's a soap opera and it's almost exclusively men. Right? It's it's the exact same thing. I know

Leo Laporte (01:10:14):
A lot of women in the,

Simone de Rochefort (01:10:16):

Leo Laporte (01:10:16):
The perfect argument that wwe.

Christina Warren (01:10:17):
Yeah, but it's mostly men. It's mostly men. It's mostly men. Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:10:20):
<laugh>. Okay.

Simone de Rochefort (01:10:22):
I'm interested going back to the question of Riot and League of Legends. I feel the comparison to the NFL is interesting cause I feel like whatever form eSports takes, if it becomes massively popular like that, I mean it is already massively popular, but I don't think it will be popular in the same format that football is. I think that we have to envision a new way for these sports to be consumed. And Riot is really doing a good job of making a game that is, I was impressed. Completely inscrutable. Interesting. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:10:57):
I watched that. Cause they have the games I Netflix play after I watch that open, what the hell is going on?

Simone de Rochefort (01:11:01):
This is what I'm really curious about this because yeah, 5 million of viewers, you said Christina,

Christina Warren (01:11:08):
5 million, concurrent.

Simone de Rochefort (01:11:10):
Concurrent. Was that just for the opening? That's what I would when the games started.

Christina Warren (01:11:15):
See, and that's a great question cuz I have a similar question with that, which is you wonder how much of the spectacle do they put into it? Because then watching the actual gameplay stuff can be,

Leo Laporte (01:11:23):
Well if what's going on, I'm sure it's very, it's

Christina Warren (01:11:25):
Exciting. But if you're brought in by the other things, how do you, even if you watch a traditional sport, it can be complicated but you can at least know of what's happening.

Leo Laporte (01:11:35):
I know. Well I've been watching the play by play on League of Legends for about a decade because it's gotten very professional by the way. Yes it is. The announcers are

Christina Warren (01:11:45):

Leo Laporte (01:11:45):
Great, are a hundred times better. They are as good now as major league sports announcers. They add excitement. They know what they're talking about. <affirmative>, <affirmative>. They sound like something exciting is happening even though it just looks like, I don't know what. And so they've improved that. I noticed. They don't cut away to the players' faces very often anymore. They all have cameras but they don't show the players. Cuz most of the players are going,

Simone de Rochefort (01:12:12):
Nobody makes a good face when they're gaming. It's concentrating. You're all focused. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:12:17):
It's like chess happening really fast. I mean clearly these guys are amazing. I can tell that <affirmative> and the announcers have done a good job. I think so. I do think they're improving a lot. Very. The only problem is if you're a League Legends fan, then you're not a Doda fan. And if you're a Doda fan then you're not over.

Simone de Rochefort (01:12:39):
But do we need to be, because clearly there are huge audiences. There's enough slice

Leo Laporte (01:12:44):

Simone de Rochefort (01:12:44):
Yeah, they're all successful in their own way. I would say Riot. What they've done really well is they have arcane the animated series that's on Netflix. It's a league of legend show what? This isn't created by them, but the American vandal creators have a series called Players, which is about a league legends team, an eSports team. This like a parody and riot. I signed off on that. It's not like a league legends show, but

Leo Laporte (01:13:12):
You think they

Simone de Rochefort (01:13:14):
Are finding these different venues to make it accessible. I think that'd be very interesting. I mean cuz these guys, they live in houses and train together. <affirmative>, it's K-Pop essentially, where they're living in a dorm. I understand there's probably reasons they wouldn't wanna televise that because I don't think it's a great standard of living.

Leo Laporte (01:13:31):
One of those picking human drama

Christina Warren (01:13:33):
Only. Not only that, I think it's a line between the story that you wanna kind of shape with that narrative and then the reality, which could be very exploitative and where you see how hard it is. And this would be true for a lot of sports, I think you wouldn't wanna necessarily see everything that goes into that.

Leo Laporte (01:13:49):
I think drive to survive as successful as it was. Somebody in Den Most in our chatroom says, I've been a fan 30 years. Most real F1 fans hate drive to survive.

Christina Warren (01:13:58):

Simone de Rochefort (01:13:58):
Heard that.

Christina Warren (01:13:59):
That's true. That's actually not what I've heard from long term F1 fans at all.

Leo Laporte (01:14:02):
I think,

Simone de Rochefort (01:14:03):
Well, if

Leo Laporte (01:14:04):
You're a fan, you should say this is good for the support.

Christina Warren (01:14:06):
That's actually, that's exactly what my husband said and he's been into it since he was a kid.

Simone de Rochefort (01:14:09):
There's two facets to this. One is that the way in which drive to survive is edited. There are some inaccuracies that creep through with the order they play radio messages. It's like reality. Yeah. That being said, I do completely agree with Grant Christina that it is the most effective onboarding tool for a sport that is very technical and it does allow people to understand what it's about and then to go on and learn for themselves why I care about freaking tire compounds and why that's something they never talk about and drive to survive. But once you start watching this sport after being onboarded in this very gentle way, you learn about these things, that it

Leo Laporte (01:14:51):
Comes made to drive on those hards because it really hurt his ability. I

Simone de Rochefort (01:14:56):
Think Mercedes will never learn not to have on hards <laugh>. I they will die on that hill. I will die on that hill. I guess

Leo Laporte (01:15:04):
I don't even, Lewis was very happy about the whole thing. No one is. I love it when he gets on the radio, says, got me on the wrong tires, mate.

Simone de Rochefort (01:15:11):
But then they said it in the video that the engineers do after where they're going through and answering questions. They're like, Yeah, we messed up <laugh>. We should have listened to George. Yeah. Oh

Leo Laporte (01:15:22):
Yeah. I knew you were an F1 fan. So I've, I've got some CRI notes that had somebody write down some

Simone de Rochefort (01:15:27):
Lines. I dispute. I don't know about the popularity of it cuz my tweets don't get much engagement. Where are you all engaged with me <laugh>. I tweet about soup and 50 people are like Queen. Yes. Everybody

Leo Laporte (01:15:39):
Understands soup. No, I

Simone de Rochefort (01:15:41):
Tweet. Tweet about hard tires. It's silence out there. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:15:45):
Yeah. I think that's probably a good lesson that TWiTtter just forces you to tweet about soup. Yeah. And

Simone de Rochefort (01:15:53):
We need to discuss that. The soup bias on the

Leo Laporte (01:15:56):
Internet. Huge bias. Huge

Simone de Rochefort (01:15:57):

Leo Laporte (01:15:58):
Huge bias.

Simone de Rochefort (01:15:59):

Leo Laporte (01:16:00):
Yeah. Talk about stuff I have to say. Everybody's interested. Sorry, go ahead Brianna.

Brianna Wu (01:16:04):
No, I was just gonna say your garlic soup recipe nearly killed me. Simone, she put out this recipe on live for garlic is just soak 80 vols of garlic in olive oil and doing, is there anything else? 17 sticks of butter. And I tried it. I was like, I am literally, I am not in my twenties. I will die if I keep trying. This

Simone de Rochefort (01:16:27):
<laugh>. The smitten kitchen, 44 clove garlic soup. Is

Leo Laporte (01:16:32):
There anything else in my house? Is there anything else in

Simone de Rochefort (01:16:34):
It? I don't remember actually. Just garlic. I think maybe potatoes.

Leo Laporte (01:16:38):

Simone de Rochefort (01:16:39):
Wouldn't matter obviously. Like broth,

Brianna Wu (01:16:40):
Garlic butter, olive oil,

Simone de Rochefort (01:16:43):
<laugh>. Perfect. It's so healing. Your entire nose will be emptied out after very

Leo Laporte (01:16:48):
Few people could eat that, I think. And five, I would take a little break. Then after the break, we're gonna do something that Brianna's been preparing. I don't know what it is. <laugh>.

Simone de Rochefort (01:16:57):
I have no idea. Oh dear. Oh dear. You've gotta open up your badge.

Leo Laporte (01:17:00):
And then yeah, we've got an exclusive <affirmative> because of the GitHub event coming up. I have got my GitHub badge, a hackable, programmable, a badge. Wow. Martin, you created this for This is kind of in the Defcon style where you have a badge that is more than just a piece of plastic with your name. Yes. Can't wait to find out what's in this. That's exciting. Thank you for bringing me this. We'll show you this in a little bit, but first I wanna show you something else. My rocket money. Have you guys know True Bill? Yes. Every true Bill's the greatest thing. I subscribed to True Bill years ago. True. Bill finds your subscriptions. <affirmative> tells you what you subscribe to. Often it's a surprise. Yes.

Christina Warren (01:17:43):
Often you realize, Oh, okay, that's,

Leo Laporte (01:17:46):
I've been paying for that for

Christina Warren (01:17:47):
How many years. Okay,

Leo Laporte (01:17:49):
Great. True. Bill. Found it. I'm, I inadvertently checked a box that said, Make this a recurring campaign contribution. Oh no. And oh no. I literally thousands of dollars later and true Bill found it. Thank God they saved me so much money. Well true Bill is now Rocket Money and I tell you it is even better. I am a huge fan. Everybody watching this show, I guarantee you is wasting money on a subscription they've forgotten about. That automatically renews and it's just kind of slowly drip, drip, drip drain in your bank account. 80% of people, according to Rocket Money have subscriptions they've just forgotten about. An unused Amazon Prime account, a Hulu account that you forgot you even had maybe a magazine or a newsletter you subscribe to. There's a great app. This is the greatest app for tracking my expenses more than just by the way, recurring expenses.

It does it all now, which is really good. I get my net worth, I get my recurring expenses. I can hook up all my accounts to this, but it pays for itself because you're gonna save money on subscriptions. You've forgotten. Most Americans think they've pulled them and think they spent about $80 a month on subscriptions. The actual amount is closer to 200. So that's a lot of people wasting more than a hundred dollars every month on subscriptions they don't even know about. You will see 'em and there's a button and you can cancel it. It's so cool. It'll find subscriptions you didn't know you were paying for. Maybe you're getting double charged. It'll find those two. Just press cancel. Rocket Money takes care of the rest. And now with Rocket Money, I not only know about all my subscriptions, I kind of have my budget done here.

I know what I spend. I know what categories. I get graphs, I get how much I got paid. It's all in there and it's fantastic. I have to recommend this so highly. It's so fantastic. Thank you. Rock. I think Rocket Mortgage people bought True Bill and they've made it even better. How many times have I found canceled? A subscription that saved me money so many times. Don't cancel your TWiT Club TWiT subscription though. That's not okay. But any other subscription, you <laugh> or your Rocket Pro? No. You keep that subscription. That's a good yes. See that's the thing. There are things you want. So it's good to know what you're subscribing to so you can get rid of the things you don't want. Like your TWiTtter blue subscription Rocket Money formally known as True Bill. You can download it right now for iOS or Android.

You must have this at least to get rid of those useless subscriptions, Rocket It could save you hundreds of dollars a year, maybe more. Rocket saved me I thousands <laugh>. I don't even know Rocket Money. It was from 2018 that I've been paying this. You know how they do this in Act Blue where you check the box and you kind of, Oh yeah, they're recurring and you forget and I forgot and it was a big check. It was writing every month. Wasn't my intent. Rocket Money, Thank you. <laugh> rocket Cancel your unnecessary subscriptions right now. Everybody. Everybody listening, everybody watching. Just get it. Rocket, it will pay for itself. All right. Brianna's been planning something. Is it a quiz? I'm gathering. It's a quiz. Yeah,

Brianna Wu (01:21:19):
It it's okay. So look, if you had Kelly Clarkson and Ruben Stuttered in the same building, he

Leo Laporte (01:21:27):
Was robbed by the way. Just wanted to say

Brianna Wu (01:21:29):

Leo Laporte (01:21:31):
Said, Oh, okay. Okay. Nevermind. I thought he came in second. No, Clay Ahan came in second. Oh, Clay Akin. Well, he was not robbed <laugh>.

Brianna Wu (01:21:38):
He had some other problems. We'll talk about him later. Okay, so

Leo Laporte (01:21:41):
Said that was like season two. That was season two. Yeah.

Brianna Wu (01:21:45):
We have Leo, you are one of the most prestigious, like respected, longtime journalists in the entire tech industry. And we have Christina Warren here who is Thet 800 of technology. Uhoh a truly terrifying competitor for anything. Anything. It doesn't matter what you're doing. I figure if you have the best of the best, what does Rocket do? We put together Anmp game show. You're looking

Leo Laporte (01:22:16):
At each other going <laugh>.

Brianna Wu (01:22:18):
No, we talked to your producers ahead of time. I'm gonna ask, do you have a buzzer this on out? Do I have a

Leo Laporte (01:22:23):
Click? Like a Jeopardy clicker.

Brianna Wu (01:22:26):
So do you want the good news or the bad news first? Leo,

Leo Laporte (01:22:30):
What do you think? I,

Brianna Wu (01:22:32):
We have to hear the

Leo Laporte (01:22:33):
Bad news. I always start with the bad news. News. Yeah, Yeah.

Brianna Wu (01:22:35):
Okay. So the bad news is the loser of this contest is going to get a pie in the face by the winner is going to put a pie in your face. Your team checked it. They made sure that you've got all the equipment there. All the Yes.

Leo Laporte (01:22:53):
Oh my God. Jason, how is actually filling the pie now? That's right. Creamy. Delicious.

Brianna Wu (01:22:57):
Steaks are

Leo Laporte (01:22:58):
Very hot. Whipped cream

Brianna Wu (01:22:59):
Sticks are very hot.

Leo Laporte (01:23:00):
Okay, I promise.

Brianna Wu (01:23:01):

Leo Laporte (01:23:02):
More, more. Wait a minute, there's

Brianna Wu (01:23:04):
More. Let's get some cherries on there.

Leo Laporte (01:23:06):

Christina Warren (01:23:08):
Oh, is that a

Leo Laporte (01:23:09):
Green? It's a,

Christina Warren (01:23:12):

Leo Laporte (01:23:13):
It was all I had. Okay. Fair.

Brianna Wu (01:23:16):
This was a hundred percent my idea. Don't blame your staff. This was on me. The good news is the winner of this is going to get a lovely original artwork by Frank Wu congratulating them. Oh, I wanna win the very first. Can we bring that out? It is a certificate been printed on your office printer. Oh wow. That was awesome. Frank w

Leo Laporte (01:23:39):
Artwork. Oh, this is it. Celebrating

Brianna Wu (01:23:42):
Gentleman. There we go. This

Christina Warren (01:23:44):
So beautiful.

Brianna Wu (01:23:44):
This's, so wonderful. Rocket ex TWiTtch Showdown. Oh my gosh. So Frank told me every one of these creatures he drew on here represents one of us. The singing dinosaur is of course Simone and Christina is the deadly tank at the bottom because she is deadly to

Leo Laporte (01:24:02):
The shoulder. Shut is over here now. There we

Brianna Wu (01:24:04):
Go. Oh, look at that Leo. You're the double guitar and I am the centipede because I work in politics.

Leo Laporte (01:24:11):
That is awesome. <laugh>. You work in politics so you have many legs.

Brianna Wu (01:24:16):

Leo Laporte (01:24:16):
Right. That is awesome.

Brianna Wu (01:24:18):
A creature with lasers running

Leo Laporte (01:24:21):
A rocket. S Showdown 2022. Thank you. Frank W There you go. Your husband for designing that. So

Brianna Wu (01:24:28):
This is how it's gonna work. We're going to have some questions and I'll explain the further. I'm

Christina Warren (01:24:33):
Feeling nauseated. I'm so scared right now. I am so scared right now.

Brianna Wu (01:24:36):
Should be. So we're gonna ask a question and this we're gonna go turn. So Leo call heads

Leo Laporte (01:24:46):
Or tail. Oh, so it doesn't have to be a speed thing. Okay.

Christina Warren (01:24:48):

Leo Laporte (01:24:49):
Correct. Okay. Heads,

Brianna Wu (01:24:50):
You want heads. Christina, you are going first.

Christina Warren (01:24:53):

Leo Laporte (01:24:54):
Oh, you have flipped the coin before I said it.

Brianna Wu (01:24:56):
I did. I wrote it right here on my piece of paper.

Christina Warren (01:24:58):
That's efficiency baby <laugh>. Okay,

Leo Laporte (01:25:00):
Go right.

Brianna Wu (01:25:01):
Christina. Christina, Yes. In 1994, I Omega came out with their massively popular zip drive. Yes. The original version of that technology came out eventually in three capacities. Yes. What were those three capacities?

Christina Warren (01:25:16):
100 megabytes. 250 megabytes. 700 megabytes.

Brianna Wu (01:25:23):
That is correct.

Leo Laporte (01:25:24):

Christina Warren (01:25:25):

Leo Laporte (01:25:26):
I wasn't sure about the 700.

Christina Warren (01:25:28):
I remember that. Because that they were trying to compete against,

Brianna Wu (01:25:31):
Did you say 700 or seven 50?

Leo Laporte (01:25:34):
She said hundred

Christina Warren (01:25:35):
700. Was it seven megabytes?

Brianna Wu (01:25:38):
Seven 50? We're gonna have to give you partial credit for that.

Leo Laporte (01:25:41):
She got two outta

Christina Warren (01:25:42):
Three. Okay. And I almost said 50, but it was seven. Okay. Okay. I

Leo Laporte (01:25:47):
Would've gotten

Brianna Wu (01:25:47):
That wrong. So I was very generously award you seven points for that.

Christina Warren (01:25:51):

Brianna Wu (01:25:52):
That's a random number.

Leo Laporte (01:25:54):
Apparently they are all the awards prime numbers. Let me ask you that. Okay, go ahead, please continue.

Brianna Wu (01:26:00):
Continue. Okay, Leo,

Leo Laporte (01:26:01):
I am so sorry.

Brianna Wu (01:26:02):
What is the alternative name for the Hayes command set originally developed for 300 BOD modems.

Leo Laporte (01:26:09):
Is it the at d? Let me think. It's I Is it just the at command set? I'm gonna say the, it's not at d t, which is what you type. I think it's the at command set.

Brianna Wu (01:26:19):
Is that your final answer?

Leo Laporte (01:26:21):
Oh, shoot. Christina says yes,

Christina Warren (01:26:24):
I think, I think this. No <laugh>. I think this is right.

Leo Laporte (01:26:27):
I think it's the at command set.

Brianna Wu (01:26:29):
That is correct. 10 points points

Christina Warren (01:26:31):
From Leo,

Leo Laporte (01:26:33):
But it is at att dt you spell out but okay. Okay, good, good.

Brianna Wu (01:26:37):
So here's our

Leo Laporte (01:26:38):
First comment. How many points do I get for that? 10.

Brianna Wu (01:26:40):
You get 10 points.

Leo Laporte (01:26:41):
Okay. Okay.

Brianna Wu (01:26:43):
So Christina Leo scored a point free and fair. So now we come to the complicating factor of this game. The Simone Chaos questions <laugh>. So Simone, she's was

Leo Laporte (01:26:57):
Her girling super involved?

Christina Warren (01:26:59):

Leo Laporte (01:26:59):
Don't, cause that would be chaos, Simone.

Brianna Wu (01:27:01):
It could literally be anything. Okay. It could be anything. Okay. Okay. So I've seen these questions. I personally wouldn't ask any of them, but you can opt for the option and ask Simone for a chaos question. And 10 points are on the line. So you either get 10 points or you will lose 10 points based on

Leo Laporte (01:27:23):
What If we don't ask for a chaos question,

Brianna Wu (01:27:26):
Then it just goes on.

Christina Warren (01:27:28):

Leo Laporte (01:27:29):
So at any point we can beg for a chaos question. Is that how Yes. Like a lifeline? That's correct. So will you ask a question and then say, Well, I don't want to answer that. Gimme the chaos question. Is that correct? No,

Brianna Wu (01:27:38):
It's after someone else scores.

Leo Laporte (01:27:41):
Okay. Okay. So you could ask now.

Christina Warren (01:27:43):
So I can now ask for a chaos

Leo Laporte (01:27:44):
Question. For a chaos question.

Christina Warren (01:27:45):
Yes. Or I can ask for a regular question.

Brianna Wu (01:27:48):

Christina Warren (01:27:49):
<laugh>. All right. How many points am I at now? Am I I at eight points now? Seven.

Brianna Wu (01:27:54):
You're seven

Christina Warren (01:27:55):
Points. I'm at seven points to 10. All right, let's go for a chaos question. Woo.

Simone de Rochefort (01:28:03):
All right Brianna, should I ask these in order or can I move around?

Brianna Wu (01:28:08):
I would ask them in order. So it's worried about favoritism to you. I what we say about that? I very, I've done a show with Christina for a long time. I asked, I put together questions that we have not talked about on the show and took that

Christina Warren (01:28:22):
Very serious. You

Leo Laporte (01:28:24):
Have unlocked chaos mode. Go

Christina Warren (01:28:25):
Ahead. Okay,

Simone de Rochefort (01:28:26):
Christina, now my questions are rewarding, not simply hard knowledge, but also creativity. Yes. I would like you to tell me what is the most French color and why?

Christina Warren (01:28:44):
The cordon blue

Leo Laporte (01:28:46):
<laugh>. Oh, that's good. That's good. I like it

Christina Warren (01:28:50):
Because that was the first pun I could think of. And that's my answer

Leo Laporte (01:28:54):
Cord on blue. And

Simone de Rochefort (01:28:55):
That's your reason

Christina Warren (01:28:56):
Why. Yes.

Simone de Rochefort (01:28:58):
Oh God.

Leo Laporte (01:28:59):
So is there judgment involved in the answer? I, the Simone, you have to decide now. You

Brianna Wu (01:29:04):
Can't, can't predict how she's gonna go.

Simone de Rochefort (01:29:08):
I am the expert of the Simone chaos.

Christina Warren (01:29:10):
What is the most I of color have to say?

Leo Laporte (01:29:12):
I've never taking

Christina Warren (01:29:13):
It's Cordone blue. You're

Leo Laporte (01:29:14):
Correct. She's right. I think she's right. You got it. Is

Christina Warren (01:29:16):
That 20? I'm looking at Wiki. I just now have 10 extra points.

Leo Laporte (01:29:20):
10 extra points.

Brianna Wu (01:29:21):
10 extra points. That's right. Now's

Christina Warren (01:29:23):
Christina's chair. Okay.

Brianna Wu (01:29:25):
All right. Christina. Wow. What G4 TV host starred on three shows Attack of the Show. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> X Play <affirmative> and G4 Underground.

Leo Laporte (01:29:38):
So glad you didn't ask me that

Christina Warren (01:29:40):
Question. I know <laugh> attack of the show X play G4 Underground. Was that Kevin?

Leo Laporte (01:29:46):

Brianna Wu (01:29:47):
His last name? Your final answer?

Christina Warren (01:29:48):
Kim Fur.

Brianna Wu (01:29:52):
I just wrong that said, that's your

Christina Warren (01:29:53):
Final answer. That's my final answer.

Brianna Wu (01:29:55):
Nope. Morgan what? Morgan

Christina Warren (01:29:56):
What? That was actually, my first thought was getting Morgan, but okay. Right wrong on that one. Cool. Wrong.

Leo Laporte (01:30:02):
So glad you didn't ask me that question.

Christina Warren (01:30:04):
I'm glad I, at least Morgan

Leo Laporte (01:30:06):
Would've been mad at me for getting it wrong. She

Christina Warren (01:30:07):
Would've mad at you cuz you know her and I don't know, I was just, somebody watched these things and I'm just glad I took the chaos questions. Okay,

Leo Laporte (01:30:15):
So now she's got 27 points.

Christina Warren (01:30:17):
No, I've got 17 points.

Brianna Wu (01:30:19):
17 points. You're a 10.

Leo Laporte (01:30:20):
Why didn't she get another 10 for getting the Morgan? Because I got wrong. Oh, you got it wrong. That's right.

Brianna Wu (01:30:24):
Okay. That's right. Okay. Leo,

Christina Warren (01:30:29):
My instinct was actually to say Morgan web first. And then when I was thinking of it, I was like, Was she on attack the show? And I couldn't remember.

Brianna Wu (01:30:35):
There we go. Leo you can take a chaos question or you can. So

Leo Laporte (01:30:40):
If I do a chaos question, I get that and I get a question. Yes,

Brianna Wu (01:30:43):
Correct. But so there are only five chaos questions and

Leo Laporte (01:30:46):
It's a chance to basically, it's a bonus.

Christina Warren (01:30:49):
Yes. You have a chance to either get another 10 points or lose 10 points. I just

Leo Laporte (01:30:53):
Wanna throw up

Simone de Rochefort (01:30:54):

Leo Laporte (01:30:56):
All right, I'll do a chaos question. Okay.

Christina Warren (01:30:58):

Brianna Wu (01:30:59):
Boy. Oh

Simone de Rochefort (01:31:00):
Leo, I'm so sorry. It's not the French one. Can you explain to me, to my satisfaction the plot of SS Roger MO'S 2022 Masterpiece Film. R r r <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:31:16):

Simone de Rochefort (01:31:19):

Leo Laporte (01:31:21):
In a spaceship, <affirmative> on the way to Mars.

Christina Warren (01:31:24):

Leo Laporte (01:31:26):
And unfortunately, what you don't know is it in between you and Mars is a black hole that no one's seen because it's a black hole. Sure. You get sucked into it and you emerge into the tele tubs. Kingdom <laugh>. Okay. Now the comedy ensues subsequently is really the main point of our, our, But I don't wanna spoil this for anybody.

Simone de Rochefort (01:31:55):

Brianna Wu (01:31:58):
Judge Simone, your tough affair. What's, What's the verdict?

Simone de Rochefort (01:32:03):
I'm so torn because it feels disrespectful to the great director to give this any points. But also you really did put in, Wait. No. Okay. I will give you this. If you can explain to me why this film that you have just described so perfectly is called r

Leo Laporte (01:32:20):
R r, because, well, it's a fictitious story about two heroes who are away from home in the tele tubs land.

Simone de Rochefort (01:32:27):
What does that have to do with the letter R <laugh>? Leo, I'm giving you such a big option. I am

Leo Laporte (01:32:34):
R r r I am My hand of r r r is this some Bollywood Epic Feature.

Brianna Wu (01:32:41):
Feature. It's a

Simone de Rochefort (01:32:42):
Masterpiece. It's a Hollywood feature to

Leo Laporte (01:32:45):
Not Bali. Thank you. Yeah, it's really right. Reliable.

Simone de Rochefort (01:32:55):
And that's okay. The Tell Tubby movie is called Really right. Reliable Leo? Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:32:59):
Yeah. No,

Simone de Rochefort (01:33:01):
Just to yourself. Out of 10 points. I don't, I'm sorry.

Leo Laporte (01:33:05):
I don't reason to get any points for that at all. I have no idea what's going on.

Brianna Wu (01:33:09):
All right. Unfortunately, Leo, you,

Leo Laporte (01:33:11):
It's about Pirates on their way to Mars and they go R when they find out they're land Tele W land,

Simone de Rochefort (01:33:20):
He gets half points.

Leo Laporte (01:33:22):
I saved, saved myself points with that, with the till Tubby joke. Okay.

Simone de Rochefort (01:33:27):
I love a fun,

Brianna Wu (01:33:28):
You're at Five Points. She does love a fun. Oh

Leo Laporte (01:33:30):
See, know this.

Brianna Wu (01:33:31):
This question's easy. Okay. This is an easy one. You'll be very happy. Two companies developed the city Rom format in 1984. What were those two companies?

Leo Laporte (01:33:45):
Sony was one, the other company cd, Ros Phillips.

Brianna Wu (01:33:52):
Is that your final answer?

Leo Laporte (01:33:53):

Brianna Wu (01:33:55):
You are correct. <affirmative>. That means you were a

Christina Warren (01:33:57):
Joint effort.

Leo Laporte (01:33:59):
Sony and Phillips. Yeah. And I saw the chatroom did say it, but don't say this chatroom. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't see it before they said it, but don't say any answers cuz that spoils it. Yeah.

Brianna Wu (01:34:10):
All right. So Christina,

Leo Laporte (01:34:11):
Elon Musk has now suspended. Kathy Griffin? Yes.

Brianna Wu (01:34:14):
On Oh, I saw the, We saw the

Simone de Rochefort (01:34:16):
<laugh>. Okay.

Brianna Wu (01:34:17):
Christina, you can take the option for chaos. Question. There are only five of them and I gotta tell you, the next one's pretty hard, but it's, It's up to you. Okay.

Christina Warren (01:34:26):
I'll take the chaos question because I'm behind.

Brianna Wu (01:34:29):

Simone de Rochefort (01:34:29):
No, you're not. You have 17 and Leo has 15.

Brianna Wu (01:34:32):
Yeah, you're leading. You're winning.

Christina Warren (01:34:34):
Oh, I'm leading.

Brianna Wu (01:34:35):

Simone de Rochefort (01:34:36):

Christina Warren (01:34:37):
Then I'll take, I'll just, I will take the regular question.

Brianna Wu (01:34:39):
You just want normal question. Okay. I'll blame you. Also,

Leo Laporte (01:34:42):
Very, I so regret the chaos question. <laugh>, I can't tell you, but that's what put you ahead was your

Simone de Rochefort (01:34:49):
Yeah, I know. I know it was. I know it was,

Christina Warren (01:34:50):
But if I'm, I'm ahead,

Leo Laporte (01:34:51):
Then why take the chance? Yeah. Why risk? My myself psychotic on

Simone de Rochefort (01:34:55):

Leo Laporte (01:34:56):
Whimsy. Yeah. Okay. I understand. Yeah.

Brianna Wu (01:34:58):
I wouldn't mess with some. The original Apple iPod shipped in two sizes. <affirmative>, what were

Christina Warren (01:35:04):
They? The original Apple iPod?

Brianna Wu (01:35:06):

Christina Warren (01:35:07):
<affirmative>. Okay. It was five gigabytes and 10 gigabytes.

Brianna Wu (01:35:12):
That's correct.

Leo Laporte (01:35:13):
Yeah. It was not gigabytes to me to tell you.

Christina Warren (01:35:16):
It was, Yeah, it was

Leo Laporte (01:35:17):
The iPod. Was it gigs? Yes. Okay.

Simone de Rochefort (01:35:19):

Christina Warren (01:35:19):
Was a thousand songs in your

Leo Laporte (01:35:21):
Pocket. Oh yeah, that's right. It had to be a gig. Yeah. Couldn't be a megabyte.

Christina Warren (01:35:24):
No, no, it was gigabytes. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:35:26):
I would've would've said megabytes, but you're right, it's gigs, obviously.

Christina Warren (01:35:30):
Yeah. Yeah. Because the second one was 10 and 20, and then it had a 30,

Leo Laporte (01:35:35):
So right after the box they did five and 10.

Christina Warren (01:35:37):
I think that it was just five at first, and then there was still a 10 gig in the first generation. Yeah. Then when the second generation came out that summer, it was 10 and 20. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:35:47):
Yeah. Yeah.

Brianna Wu (01:35:50):
All right. Leo, are you taking the chaos question or are you just,

Leo Laporte (01:35:53):
Yeah, why not? What the hell? I gotta catch up here.

Christina Warren (01:35:57):
Yeah. Yep.

Leo Laporte (01:35:58):
R r r.

Simone de Rochefort (01:35:58):
And you might actually, this might be tailored to your interests demographically. Leo <laugh>. What is the appropriate way to introduce Ernest Hemingway? How would you do it? How would you introduce Ernest Hemingway to someone?

Leo Laporte (01:36:19):
I don't know where she's going with this. I

Christina Warren (01:36:21):
Don't. I don't

Leo Laporte (01:36:22):
Either. I would just say, here's Ernie.

Simone de Rochefort (01:36:28):
I can't believe you specifically chose a nickname that Ernest Miller Hemingway, born in Oak Park, Illinois in 1899. Hated <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:36:40):
Okay. Chatroom suggesting come to Papa. Would that that work?

Simone de Rochefort (01:36:45):
Ooh. Chad gets 10 points chat. Chad,

Christina Warren (01:36:48):
Like its 10 points. Chad

Simone de Rochefort (01:36:49):
Gets that, and I, We are vibing, and I bet Chad has watched r r too. So <laugh> Leo, I can't believe this. Come on.

Leo Laporte (01:36:57):
So I take it, I don't get any points, right? No,

Simone de Rochefort (01:37:00):
Ernie? No.

Christina Warren (01:37:02):
Okay. Simone, how should one introduce Ernest Hemingway?

Simone de Rochefort (01:37:06):
Ernest Miller Hemingway, born in Oak Park, Illinois in 1899.

Leo Laporte (01:37:09):
That's how you should introduce him.

Simone de Rochefort (01:37:11):
But if you had come up with a better answer, I would.

Leo Laporte (01:37:14):
Okay. Come to

Simone de Rochefort (01:37:15):
Chat. Come to popup.

Leo Laporte (01:37:17):
Good. Yeah. Yeah.

Simone de Rochefort (01:37:18):
I would say I wave you over

Brianna Wu (01:37:21):
10 points on this.

Leo Laporte (01:37:22):

Simone de Rochefort (01:37:23):
Lose your voice. I'm sorry. Yes.

Christina Warren (01:37:24):
This is this always the

Leo Laporte (01:37:25):
Chaos question. I'm going to zero now.

Simone de Rochefort (01:37:27):
Yeah, but you might get the tech question. You're

Brianna Wu (01:37:30):

Leo Laporte (01:37:31):

Simone de Rochefort (01:37:32):
You shouldn't have toy

Brianna Wu (01:37:33):
With me, Leo. It's the tech question. <laugh>, which version of which OS 10 was the first to support 64 bit architecture on power PC <affirmative>.

Leo Laporte (01:37:43):
Oh my God.

Christina Warren (01:37:44):
Come on. You know this.

Leo Laporte (01:37:46):
I do. Yeah. On Power PC 64 bid. It must have been a big cat or a cat of some kind. Yes. I'm gonna say leopard.

Brianna Wu (01:38:06):
Is that your final answer?

Leo Laporte (01:38:07):

Brianna Wu (01:38:08):
That is not correct. Unfortunately. No. It was Jaguar.

Christina Warren (01:38:12):
Yeah. That was 10, not three, right?

Brianna Wu (01:38:14):
Yep. Ten two actually.

Simone de Rochefort (01:38:16):
Oh, it's ten two.

Christina Warren (01:38:17):
I would've gotten wrong then. So. Okay,

Brianna Wu (01:38:21):
There we go. Alright, Christina, two chaos questions left. Are you gonna take one? Yeah,

Christina Warren (01:38:28):
I'm gonna take a chaos question because it's chaos and we have to,

Leo Laporte (01:38:31):
It's chaotic. I think she's put all this effort into these ridiculous questions.

Christina Warren (01:38:36):
Also, I feel like I have a buffer now, so even if I lose, I can have a shot.

Leo Laporte (01:38:40):
You have a buffer. You do. Pretty much. It's guaranteed. I'm gonna get a pie in the face.

Christina Warren (01:38:44):
Well, or no. One of us is gonna get a pie in the

Leo Laporte (01:38:45):
Face. Can we do it at the end of the show instead of in the middle of the show? Absolutely. Thank you.

Simone de Rochefort (01:38:50):
I was just

Leo Laporte (01:38:51):
Reminder a few hours. Absolutely.

Simone de Rochefort (01:38:53):
Yeah. Okay. The chaos questions are artistic. They are creative. If you don't know an answer, that's my

Leo Laporte (01:38:59):

Simone de Rochefort (01:38:59):
Right there. You have the ability to invent one to my satisfaction. Yes. I tried. And in light of that, Yes. Yeah. Did you try Christina? Which F1 driver most deserves the moniker of my evil wife and why?

Christina Warren (01:39:18):
Well, Louis Hamilton because you love him, but he also confounds you and his team definitely confounds you.

Simone de Rochefort (01:39:30):
Oh, but is he the evil or is it Mercedes?

Christina Warren (01:39:34):
Well, Mercedes is the evil one, but you also want him to be your wife, so,

Simone de Rochefort (01:39:39):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I, Christina, I can't give this to you. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay. I love Lewis Hamilton too much to ever call him my evil wife.

Christina Warren (01:39:49):

Leo Laporte (01:39:50):
Let me think

Brianna Wu (01:39:50):
Who, sorry. Christina Evil. Who would need minus 10 points or partial credits? And then

Simone de Rochefort (01:39:55):
I do wanna hear Leo's. Yeah, I do opinion on this.

Christina Warren (01:39:58):
This would actually, probably would've been the one that Leo would've, would've been totally given Great at

Leo Laporte (01:40:02):
Evil Wife.

Simone de Rochefort (01:40:05):
I do have one in mind. I, I'm willing to put him aside for the purposes of your creativity. But there is someone very,

Leo Laporte (01:40:12):
You have some in mind that's like an obvious Oh yes. Evil wife.

Simone de Rochefort (01:40:17):
Oh, yes.

Leo Laporte (01:40:19):
I think, well, I'm torn between Daniel, Ricardo and Sebastian. I can't decide who should be my evil wife. <laugh>. I'm gonna say Sebastian because he's sad and lonely. Oh my God. Now that he's not racing anymore.

Christina Warren (01:40:39):
Oh, that's good.

Simone de Rochefort (01:40:42):
I disagree. I think Red Bull era said would've been an evil wife, but now he's just like a beekeeper dad. <laugh>. And he only wants good in the world. Okay. Daniel Ricardo, Aside from what he did to Yuki Suno last week. Yeah. Hasn't been doing any

Leo Laporte (01:41:00):
Crimes. That was pretty evil. Yeah.

Christina Warren (01:41:03):

Brianna Wu (01:41:03):
Son, need a judgment.

Leo Laporte (01:41:05):
Fernando is

Simone de Rochefort (01:41:05):

Leo Laporte (01:41:06):
Why's evil wife. Because why?

Simone de Rochefort (01:41:10):
Of all of the history of crimes. He is committed off track and off

Leo Laporte (01:41:14):
Crimes. I'm

Simone de Rochefort (01:41:15):
Cares about chaos.

Leo Laporte (01:41:16):
I'm thinking George Russell has come is an up and comer though, as an evil.

Simone de Rochefort (01:41:20):
Oh yeah. Future evil wife right there.

Leo Laporte (01:41:21):
Future wife. Yeah.

Simone de Rochefort (01:41:22):
All right. Okay. Judgment. Sorry. I will give Leo half point. No, I get no

Leo Laporte (01:41:26):

Christina Warren (01:41:27):
No, this

Leo Laporte (01:41:28):
I was just throwing it.

Christina Warren (01:41:29):
Yeah, it was

Simone de Rochefort (01:41:30):
My, Sorry, sorry,

Leo Laporte (01:41:31):
Sorry. I almost said Amber heard, but I gather that she's not in the f1.

Christina Warren (01:41:35):
No, no. Okay. Let's irrelevant. <laugh>.

Brianna Wu (01:41:39):
All right. Simone, what's the judgment of Christina's points?

Simone de Rochefort (01:41:42):
Christina didn't get

Christina Warren (01:41:44):
It. No, I did not know.

Leo Laporte (01:41:46):
Hamilton. That's a evil. Why? All

Brianna Wu (01:41:48):
Right, Christina. so you were at 17 points. Now this is your chance to come on back. Speaking of the Jaguar.

Leo Laporte (01:41:54):
Come on back.

Christina Warren (01:41:55):
Yeah. No, but I thought I was

Leo Laporte (01:41:57):
Me. What is the score? I'm sorry. Chatroom. What's the score?

Christina Warren (01:42:01):
Yeah. Cause Leo didn't get the last question and he already lost two

Leo Laporte (01:42:04):
Points. I don't think I'm close.

Christina Warren (01:42:05):
So he's at five. I think

Leo Laporte (01:42:07):
I'm almost negative.

Brianna Wu (01:42:08):
10 plus five plus 10. Minus 10 plus zero.

Leo Laporte (01:42:13):

Simone de Rochefort (01:42:14):

Leo Laporte (01:42:16):

Brianna Wu (01:42:16):

Leo Laporte (01:42:17):
I was told there would be no math. Five

Brianna Wu (01:42:19):
Points. Five points. Okay.

Christina Warren (01:42:21):

Leo Laporte (01:42:22):
So you've like 10 points ahead of me. Yeah. You can't lose.

Christina Warren (01:42:24):
Well, no, I mean, I could definitely.

Brianna Wu (01:42:27):
All right. Yes. Christina, speak to Jaguar. What universally pan title was the packing game for the Atari Jaguar in 1993?

Leo Laporte (01:42:36):
Oh my God.

Christina Warren (01:42:37):
Oh my God. Leave now. Okay. No, but it looked like it. Okay. It was, no, it wasn't Asteroids. It was one of those types of Asteroids games. I don't know this. It was awful. But I don't know this. I don't know this.

Brianna Wu (01:42:53):
You're representing Team Rocket. Come on. Come on. Christina.

Simone de Rochefort (01:42:56):
Who's gone? Is he getting,

Christina Warren (01:43:02):
What was it called? It is the tip of my tongue and I don't know it

Brianna Wu (01:43:10):
For partial credit. I will tell you the first letter

Christina Warren (01:43:14):
Like this.

Brianna Wu (01:43:15):

Speaker 6 (01:43:19):
<inaudible> <laugh> Crystal?

Christina Warren (01:43:21):
No, it was a shoot em up style kind of arcade game, right? Like it was similar to No. Yeah, Yeah. Okay. It was okay. It was

Brianna Wu (01:43:37):
What? It was the nineties. Think about what was everything in the nineties? The story with the C

Christina Warren (01:43:44):
Crystal quest. This is what I'm hearing. I'm, I'm cheating here. Crystal Quest.

Brianna Wu (01:43:50):
No, no. I'm sorry. That is zero points for

Christina Warren (01:43:53):
You. What was the answer? It

Brianna Wu (01:43:55):
Is cyber morph.

Christina Warren (01:43:56):
Oh my God. Yes. Okay. Okay, okay. I would never have cyber. Yeah. I never would've gotten that. Okay.

Brianna Wu (01:44:02):
All right. I guess we gotta wait for Leo to come back

Christina Warren (01:44:05):
Here. Yep. We'll see. Leo's gonna return or not <laugh>. My do you

Simone de Rochefort (01:44:11):
A good time?

Christina Warren (01:44:11):
We're having a great

Brianna Wu (01:44:12):
Time. The country, so it doesn't get pie in the face.

Christina Warren (01:44:15):
So this weekend, tech listeners, if you want more chaos like this, tune in to Rocket every week realm, become a boosty. You'll have even more opportunities to hear the TWiTsted things from Simone's imagination, but also Breeze. Great question. Games. I got mine wrong, by the way. Leo, did you? I did. I never was against I something so you. Well, but I appreciate that.

Simone de Rochefort (01:44:41):
Are you a beekeeper now?

Brianna Wu (01:44:43):
This feels like cheating. I

Leo Laporte (01:44:44):
Think it's just defensive. Yeah.

Brianna Wu (01:44:47):
Right, right. Okay. Leo, would you like a chaos question? Or how many? Simone,

Christina Warren (01:44:53):
You have one more chaos question. Do you wanna I got

Leo Laporte (01:44:55):
One more love. Let, let's do the chaos question. Even though I have no hope in the world.

Simone de Rochefort (01:44:58):
Okay, Leo? No, I believe in you. I think you can get this one. And you'd be doing me a huge favor if you did. Yeah,

Christina Warren (01:45:07):
Because if you did, then I get pie in the face. This is great for either way. This is fantastic.

Leo Laporte (01:45:12):
I know who's getting the pie in the face and it ain't You Go ahead,

Simone de Rochefort (01:45:16):
Can you, I could see this game event

Leo Laporte (01:45:18):
A mile away. <laugh>

Simone de Rochefort (01:45:20):
A plausible excuse for me to have not played a link to the past, so that next time Brianna and Christina give me crap about it. You need

Christina Warren (01:45:29):
To play this game, Simone.

Simone de Rochefort (01:45:31):
Well do I. Leo, can you invent a blast? Yeah. You can't play. Why? I haven't done

Leo Laporte (01:45:35):
It yet. You can't play it. You have sausage fingers.

Simone de Rochefort (01:45:38):
<laugh>. Oh my God.

Leo Laporte (01:45:40):
It's not, It's not. That's true. It's not even possible. Yeah, look at those. Yeah, no, this is well known. I don't even know why there's a question, frankly.

Simone de Rochefort (01:45:51):
You're so right and I can't believe Well see. The thing is because we don't do a video show, I'm Brianna and Christina. Don't know about,

Leo Laporte (01:45:58):
I never knew about Inside.

Christina Warren (01:46:00):
True. We never knew

Leo Laporte (01:46:01):
It was a side effect from pic. they say it in the commercial every single time. You should just know that.

Simone de Rochefort (01:46:11):
10 Points.

Leo Laporte (01:46:12):
<laugh>. Thank you. I think I should get 15

Brianna Wu (01:46:14):
Leo back in the

Christina Warren (01:46:15):

Simone de Rochefort (01:46:16):
Saving my life.

Christina Warren (01:46:18):
All right,

Brianna Wu (01:46:20):
Leo. In 1997, he calls a

Leo Laporte (01:46:23):
Coor Jimmy Dean Fork Sausage. Sorry. In what

Christina Warren (01:46:28):
Year? In what year? 94.

Brianna Wu (01:46:29):
1997. Consortium was developed to standardize 3D graphics for the web. What was the name of that consortium?

Leo Laporte (01:46:39):
3D Graphics for the web. That's the key in 97. I have <laugh>. I have no idea. I'm pretending I'm I'm sorry,

Christina Warren (01:46:47):
What? In what?

Leo Laporte (01:46:49):
3D graphics for the web.

Christina Warren (01:46:50):
So what, I didn't hear the quote. What company?

Leo Laporte (01:46:53):
No, she just said 1997. What was the name of the 3D Consortium?

Christina Warren (01:46:58):
Oh, 3D Consortium. 3D Graphic for

Leo Laporte (01:47:00):
Graphics. Oh, on the web. It's probably gonna, When you say it's gonna light my eyes up. No, you shaking.

Christina Warren (01:47:06):
I'm trying to think.

Leo Laporte (01:47:08):
3D Consortium,

Brianna Wu (01:47:10):
If you get this, Leo, I gotta say you're in a good position to win this. Mm-hmm.

Leo Laporte (01:47:14):
<affirmative> 3D for the web. I'm gonna say the 3D Z Alliance.

Brianna Wu (01:47:26):
Is that your final answer?

Leo Laporte (01:47:27):
No. Yes. I don't, I have no idea. Was it OpenGL? No, it can't have

Christina Warren (01:47:31):
Been open. I was thinking would be the OpenGL. I, That's kind of what I was thinking about.

Leo Laporte (01:47:35):
But it's not for the web. The web is the weird

Christina Warren (01:47:37):
Part. Yeah, that is the web. That is the birth thing.

Leo Laporte (01:47:39):
Yeah. No, I have no idea. Web

Brianna Wu (01:47:41):

Leo Laporte (01:47:41):
Web 3d.

Christina Warren (01:47:42):
I should known. Web 3d. Web 3d.

Leo Laporte (01:47:44):
The name's in the, It's in there. Wow. It's baked into the question. Great. <laugh>. First ask

Christina Warren (01:47:49):
Is Padre. I was gonna say, yeah, Padre had this right in the chat, so good job to all the chat members cuz WebGL was actually my first thought, but 90 sevens too early. So

Leo Laporte (01:47:58):
Yeah. WebGL. Yeah, Web.

Christina Warren (01:47:59):
Web. But Web 3d. Okay. Web 3d. Yeah. Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:48:01):
It didn't survive, did it?

Christina Warren (01:48:03):
No, I don't think so. No.

Brianna Wu (01:48:05):
Right. That was the final question. So now we just have to tally everything up. Christina, your score.

Leo Laporte (01:48:14):
I tell you what, Well, let me do a break. Yes.

Brianna Wu (01:48:16):
Yep. You do that while I do all this.

Leo Laporte (01:48:17):
Cause we pretty much lost the audience at this point. So I should do what I can to get the best

Brianna Wu (01:48:23):
Eye in the face will make them

Leo Laporte (01:48:24):
Come back the via in the face at the end. Because I don't wanna must my hair

Christina Warren (01:48:29):
100% or I don't wanna mess mine. I mean, I don't wanna get stuff all over.

Leo Laporte (01:48:33):
We know we know pretty

Christina Warren (01:48:34):
Well. I don't

Leo Laporte (01:48:36):
Actually hope face here, but before we do that, let me tell you about it. TV and I hope you know how much we love it. Pro tv Don Ette and Tim Brim founded it Pro TV back in 2013 after going to an event at NA that I was on a panel with Adam Carol and others talking about kind of the future of video podcasting. And Tim and Don were already trainers in a classroom. IT trainers and they said, Wow, this would be a really cool way to do it. Training not tied to a school, not tied to your location. You could watch it from anywhere. It could be always up to date IT pro TV was born, that was nine years ago. They've grown like crazy ever since. Now they have that beautiful facility in Gainesville, Florida. Seven studios operating all day Monday through Friday creating new content because it is always changing.

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(01:51:14): give your team the IT development platform. They not only need, but they want to level up their skills while enjoying the journey. For teams of two to 1000 go to IT today. And we thank 'em so much for their support and encourage you please to use that address because that way they know they had some impact on you from this show. And that helps us a lot. It Another way you can help us a lot. Club TWiT. I know Rocket. You guys are just talking about Rocket Pro. Yeah, a great way to be a participant at Rocket. We have something similar. I think it was somewhat inspired by what you were doing and Mike's doing at Relay fm. And other people especially these days, independent podcasts are under a lot of pressure from companies like Spotify, Amazon Apple, who are creating podcast tiers where you use their apps to listen to podcasts.

Advertisers love that. They love it. That's why they charge so much for Joe Rogan for instance, cuz it's a Spotify exclusive. That means they know exactly what you listen to when you listen to it, how much you listen to it. They know who you are. They know what your credit card number is. Advertisers just love this and it makes it hard for us as at any independent podcast that's RSS based to woo advertisers, we're seeing a real debt decline in advertising. We're very worried, frankly about next year. We're also getting pressure from Amazon, which just announced that they're gonna offer free podcasts, free ad free podcasts to all Amazon Prime members. So we're getting squeezed on both heads. Here's a way you can keep TWiT going well into the future. Just join Club TWiTt. It's seven bucks a month. You'll get ad free versions of all the shows.

We don't need to sell ads to you because you're already giving us the seven bucks a month we'd make. So that's a benefit for both of us, means we don't track. You also get the TWiT plus feed with a lot of content that doesn't show up in the shows. There was a great conversation before this show that we'll put in the TWiT plus feed plus podcasts. We don't put out Mic A Sergeant does hands on Mac with club only members only. We have hands on windows with Paul Th Rock Club only. The Untitled Linux Show with Jonathan Bennett, the GFIs with Dick d Bartolo, Stacy's book club, which we just did on Thursday. All of that is for the club. And the reason is we can't sell ads to it. So we let the club support it. You as a club member, you're supporting it, you're making it possible.

Many of those shows we hope will be eventually become big enough that we can put them out in public. That's what happened to this week in space. We were able to generate advertising revenue over time. So you're supporting us in the development of new shows. You get ad-free versions, you get special shows. And I didn't even mention to me the number one benefit is access to the Club Toit Discord, which is the most fun. Maybe you heard me before the show. People come on our shows, all of our hosts, but also all of our visitors. Oh, there I am getting a pie in the face <laugh>. All of our hosts and all our visitors have membership in the club. And it's a great way to talk to people, not just about the shows and the content of the shows, but everything geeks like to talk about because we have a huge number of sections on everything from anime to autos to Linux to science to sports.

I bet you there's a little F1 conversation going on. We've got TikTok Corner. Thanks Brianna, <laugh>, <laugh> all of that in the club to Discord. And you have exclusive access to it as a club member. I think it's worth seven bucks a month, a couple of cups of coffee. We sure appreciate it if you're already a member. Thank you. And for those of you who aren't, just go to TWiTt tv slash club TWiTt. Be a great holiday gift for the geek in your life. I just wanna say there's also yearly plans and there's even corporate memberships. If your business would like to do that for your employees. TWiTt. Thank you in advance. All right. Brianna has done the calculation.

Brianna Wu (01:55:12):
I've done the math. I've run all the numbers and

Leo Laporte (01:55:15):
Hold my hand, hold my hand.

Brianna Wu (01:55:17):
Before I answer this, I just wanted to ask both of you. I

Leo Laporte (01:55:20):
Promise not to hurt you.

Brianna Wu (01:55:21):
Do you think Simone should play linked to the past? I just wanted to get an what

Leo Laporte (01:55:25):
Is linked to the past.

Christina Warren (01:55:26):
It's the greatest super nindo game ever. Oh my God.

Leo Laporte (01:55:30):
I think you can't do that with a sausage finger condition. I mean, I think they don't make the controllers that you can get the

Christina Warren (01:55:38):
Fingers. I mean, look, I'm gonna give Simone, I'm gonna let her have the authority to give that answer, even if it means I get a pie of the face. Because we have to respect her authority on this. Even she

Leo Laporte (01:55:49):
Plays animal crossing, right?

Christina Warren (01:55:50):
She does. But she needs to play a link to the past and she's refused. And you did give her an I haven't refused. I procrastinated. There's a difference.

Leo Laporte (01:55:58):
I think you should be really understanding about her condition.

Christina Warren (01:56:01):
Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:56:02):
That's interesting. Here we go. Oh, it's a Zelda.

Christina Warren (01:56:04):

Leo Laporte (01:56:05):
Oh, is it about Link?

Christina Warren (01:56:06):
Yeah. Well, yes, but I mean as all of more it's, It's probably the Bestel game.

Leo Laporte (01:56:10):
The best. Zelda.

Christina Warren (01:56:12):
I mean this

Leo Laporte (01:56:13):
Is amazing. Simone, have you played other Zelda

Christina Warren (01:56:14):
Games? She's played all together. Yes. Well come

Leo Laporte (01:56:16):

Christina Warren (01:56:16):
Simon Ro for Raked Over the Coals for not having played a link to the past, which is of the best games of all time. Doesn't even know what its

Leo Laporte (01:56:24):
<laugh>. I had the break of the wind. Is that the of the wild? The wind Breath of the Wild of the Wind.

Christina Warren (01:56:32):
The That's what I

Leo Laporte (01:56:33):
Do. I played that one for a while.

Christina Warren (01:56:35):
No, that was great. That one. Well Simone loves that one because she loves the horses.

Leo Laporte (01:56:38):
There's horses. Yeah,

Christina Warren (01:56:39):
So true. Yeah. And she's a horse girl.

Brianna Wu (01:56:42):
Right? No points for that. But I appreciate you schooling, Simone. So Christina, you had a very healthy 17 points. You have very strong showing at the end but unfortunately you are coming in at 15 points. So

Christina Warren (01:56:59):
Just two points. Unfortunately,

Leo Laporte (01:57:02):
If I had only gotten that 3D consortium, I know we're not gonna do it now though. Yeah, we're gonna save.

Christina Warren (01:57:08):
Gonna save it. We'll save it.

Leo Laporte (01:57:09):
It's gonna be in the closing credits of the show. Yes. So stay tuned for the excitement

Brianna Wu (01:57:16):
You can sell Frank W

Leo Laporte (01:57:21):
The whip Whipp cream is

Christina Warren (01:57:22):
Melted. It's melted completely. It's just really

Leo Laporte (01:57:24):
Slo. You're gonna be hitting me with a pile of cream. Right? Okay. Just to be

Christina Warren (01:57:28):
Clear, put that in the fridge. Oh my God. It's too, I mean, it's too late.

Leo Laporte (01:57:33):
I'd rather be hitting with a bowl. Garlic soup. If you <laugh> had it. All right, let's move on. We can. So yeah, there she Oh, that's disgusting. I'm starting to really regret

Brianna Wu (01:57:46):
This. You should have played better. I mean, this is on

Christina Warren (01:57:48):
You. I have no idea. I'm

Leo Laporte (01:57:49):
Starting to really regret

Christina Warren (01:57:50):
This. I

Leo Laporte (01:57:53):
Don't blame you. No, thank you. I don't blame you.

Christina Warren (01:57:55):
Cause I did not know Yeah. At all. Yeah. Wow. And it also almost very nearly was, And I almost don't even feel like I almost doesn't feel fair. We were so close. I almost feel like either we both need to get hit in the face or

Leo Laporte (01:58:06):
We could do it together. We could do

Christina Warren (01:58:08):

Leo Laporte (01:58:08):
Together. Take a little cream bath.

Christina Warren (01:58:09):
Yeah. Okay. We'll do that

Leo Laporte (01:58:11):
<laugh>. Just pretend I'm Henry Caval and it'll be okay. <laugh>. All right.

Brianna Wu (01:58:17):
I love it.

Leo Laporte (01:58:19):
Lisa and I were watching the new Jack Reacher and he's quite the hunk. He is, Yes. He's no Liam Hemsworth, but he's quite the hunk <laugh>. And I said, Are you getting excited? She says, Wait till the shower scene <laugh>. I said, Okay. Yeah. Kathy Griffin is just shows you don't mess with El know. She is now a persona known grata once again. Didn't she get booted before?

Christina Warren (01:58:47):
No, she didn't. No. She just lost a lot of work.

Leo Laporte (01:58:51):
She lost the New Year's Eve with Anderson Cooper, which frankly is, she's better off but okay. Okay. So that's sad.

Christina Warren (01:59:00):
It is. And again, this goes back to again, five days ago. Everything is fine. Free speech.

Leo Laporte (01:59:06):

Christina Warren (01:59:06):
Speech, free everybody. Free speech. And now if you impersonate anyone. And also to be clear, it's the display name. It's not like she changed

Leo Laporte (01:59:14):
Her. Yeah, it's still at Kathy Griffin.

Christina Warren (01:59:16):
Yeah. It's not like she registered an account with e in a character that looks like,

Leo Laporte (01:59:22):
Here's a dirty little secret on the blue check. That's just an emoji. You can do that anytime. Right. Which she apparently did. Is it? Well, she's got it. You think? Oh, because she's Kathy Griffin. Kathy Griffin. Oh, that's very de don't think it is. Oh, you well on. Okay. See I'm confused. Cause on ma it on, you can <laugh> Right, everybody.

Christina Warren (01:59:47):
It's all deceptive. But it's also one of those things where these policies have been in place before, I think. And then Alan was just like, Everything

Leo Laporte (01:59:54):
Goes impersonation. But I have to tell you, I've been in person. In fact, the reason the blue checks started people,

Christina Warren (01:59:59):
I was gonna say, that's the whole reason I

Leo Laporte (02:00:00):
Got my Tony La Russa <affirmative>. So Tony La Russa, who was the manager of the Cardinals, I think at the time. But maybe before that, the Oakland days, he sued TWiTtter because there was a Tony La Russa impersonator. Not illegal. Nope. And there a lot were people impersonating you and me and Jeff Jarvis and all sorts of people. But he sued and TWiTtter said, We're gonna win this one. And I think they got the judge to drop it cuz it was just, No, it's a dumb, Its something, it's a dumb thing. It's a public figure. But in moment that they did this, they announced the blue check and it's thought that this was really because they realized there is a problem in impersonation and it should be the case that if you are following somebody on TWiTtter, there should be a way of verifying that's really who they say they are.

Christina Warren (02:00:46):
But it was also question also very much, very quickly used as a status symbol and as a vanity thing. Which is silly. It is. But Well's admit, we all did it. The whole reason I got mine, I mean they ended up verifying a lot of journalists, was that someone had been impersonating me. And then I used that as the excuse <affirmative> to ask to get

Leo Laporte (02:01:03):
Verified. I didn't ask. It

Christina Warren (02:01:05):
Just happened. Oh, I absolutely, yeah, I, I'd ask for a while and then it showed up one day. You were famous enough. Legitimately it

Leo Laporte (02:01:10):
Was it. But the idea is it was journalists, it was public figures, policies. Celebrities. Celebrities. Okay.

Christina Warren (02:01:15):
Cause they didn't want a question about that. Joined TWiTtter on the show when Ashton was a guest and she signed up on the website. Do you remember that? Yeah. Okay. If Oprah joins and there's somebody who's already pretending to be Oprah, you can,

Leo Laporte (02:01:30):
How's their name? Right? Yeah.

Christina Warren (02:01:33):

Simone de Rochefort (02:01:34):
What, the website was much smaller at that point. Yes. Was the tenor of the impersonation different? Did it feel different than it is now when there's millions of users? And I don't think so. The person who's doing that is probably a bad

Leo Laporte (02:01:48):
Actor. I don't think so. Because if you're impersonating always you don't have a lot of followers. Right,

Christina Warren (02:01:51):
Right. <affirmative>, I mean it depends. Yeah. Unless you're very clear.

Simone de Rochefort (02:01:55):
I'm just in the context of you all kind of came over from together. I'm

Christina Warren (02:02:00):
Curious. We were, No, we were there way before TWiTtter. We were on 2006. This like 2007. Yeah. So this is, okay. This is literally for some people like a lifetime ago. And But TWiTtter was small then. And so if you were able to grab the username, I guess you could pretend to be someone that you weren't. But also back then, it seemed funny. Why would Brit Spears or Oprah or the President, why would they be on TWiTtter? I think when the Tony Ulaa thing happened, it wasn't as if there were a lot of people who weren't early adopters in the tech space who were on this thing. Yeah,

Simone de Rochefort (02:02:41):
That's kind of what I'm wondering about it. Cuz now it would obviously be a parody or something malicious. But back then, was it seen as, like you said, a joke of haha, imagine if this person were actually on TWiTtter when

Leo Laporte (02:02:53):
Welln Oprah too big for TWiTtter, funny parody accounts. What were some good parity accounts on TWiTtter? Do you remember?

Christina Warren (02:03:00):
Well, there's still Devi Nunez Cow. That's a famous one. Yeah, he sued. Well he was sued. And that one was allowed to stay up. There was a lawsuit but there were a lot of parody ones. The whole reason that Donald Trump is real,

Brianna Wu (02:03:13):
The man who

Christina Warren (02:03:13):
Has it all account. I love that one. People would register names.

Leo Laporte (02:03:16):
Which one? Brianna

Brianna Wu (02:03:18):
Man, who has it all

Leo Laporte (02:03:19):
Accounts. The man who has it all accounts

Brianna Wu (02:03:22):
The genre tipped on his head of women that has it all. And it's like, But it's a man that has it all.

Leo Laporte (02:03:28):
Great. That account. Oh, it's gotta be hard. I don't know it. Since I have elected not to pay $8, I guess I will lose my check. Not that I care, but I don't see how that helps anybody.

Simone de Rochefort (02:03:41):
Well, but you have to pay for it for TWiTtter and all the associated like TWiT account.

Leo Laporte (02:03:47):
Oh, we won't accounts. We won't give them any money. No.

Simone de Rochefort (02:03:49):

Leo Laporte (02:03:50):
<laugh>, what does it matter?

Christina Warren (02:03:52):
I mean, very, I

Leo Laporte (02:03:52):
Know, man. Honestly, if we're up to me, which it's not, I would just tell a market department, Please don't post on TWiTtter ever again. I I've been saying that for years. What's the point? Yeah, no, I don't think there's any value to it. Cuz it goes by who sees it. And if you see it and you know what it is, then you're already listening to our shows. I don't see any point to marketing on TWiTtter at all. And I really baffles me that brands take this so seriously. I always tell on the radio show, its always tell the audience, if you wanna get action cuz you have a consumer problem with a brand, just tweet at 'em. <affirmative>. They take it really seriously for no good reason. No one's seeing that tweet. It's not damaging their reputation, is it? They see it cuz you at them.

Christina Warren (02:04:35):
I don't know. I think that it can be. I think that it is definitely. I also think that it's interesting the way that brands, and it started with Comcast and then it went into a lot of others, started to use TWiTtter as a So as

Leo Laporte (02:04:46):
A Comcast cares. Very

Christina Warren (02:04:47):
Famous. Yes. Very famous. This was a guy who, Frank. Frank, Yeah. Just a normal guy at Comcast who created a Comcast Cares TWiTtter account to handle the backlash against a company that frankly most of us have.

Leo Laporte (02:04:57):
And it did help

Christina Warren (02:04:58):
Them. It did help them. A company

Leo Laporte (02:04:59):
<laugh>. But that was a long time

Christina Warren (02:05:00):
Ago. Delta, and they don't do this anymore, I don't think. But for many, many years they ran a huge amount of their customer service stuff through TWiTtter and it was plugged into their other crm. That's such a mistake. No, it was great because it was much faster to get in touch with people rather than calling. You could tweet and you could get in the dms and it was pre-chat ops right now Ops is the thing that you would do. And you would do things on WhatsApp or iMessage or whatever the case may be, but you could use TWiTtter for that. And it was a great way for them to deal with customer complaints. And you could do things a lot faster than otherwise. Also, there were moments because things would go viral. And this still happens where customer service, customer fail incidents go viral. And that's a nightmare for our company

Leo Laporte (02:05:45):
Stake s STAs has a great account. Stakes

Christina Warren (02:05:50):

Leo Laporte (02:05:50):
I don't know if it makes you want to eat steaks. Probably not.

Simone de Rochefort (02:05:54):
I, but

Christina Warren (02:05:55):
I think

Leo Laporte (02:05:56):
It's your sausage fingers only in a delicious

Christina Warren (02:05:59):
Sandwich. <laugh>.

Simone de Rochefort (02:06:00):
Oh well now you have my attention.

Leo Laporte (02:06:01):
Yeah. STAs doesn't talk about Stams usually. You're right. It does go viral when a brand does something clever. Cuz we usually expect brands to be Yeah,

Christina Warren (02:06:11):
No, no. But also is something bad happens that goes viral too. If there's a terrible customer service thing that can become true,

Leo Laporte (02:06:17):
It could go bad. Maybe that's what they're worried about. It

Christina Warren (02:06:19):
Could go bad. Well used to. I think now maybe it's not as much of a thing anymore, but it used to

Leo Laporte (02:06:22):
Be thing. It's certainly not gonna be going forward with under Elon.

Christina Warren (02:06:25):
Probably not. But historically it was definitely a problem if you didn't wanna see your company trending for the wrong reason. Right.

Leo Laporte (02:06:32):
Elon is very proud to say, I am not going to ban the account that tracks my private. Well,

Christina Warren (02:06:39):
It is public. I think that account is gross. Stalking people is gross. But it's public data.

Leo Laporte (02:06:44):
He says, just tweeted this, by the way, even though that is a direct personal safety risk. See what a good man I

Christina Warren (02:06:50):
Am. And it's public information you're getting directly from the faa. Well,

Simone de Rochefort (02:06:56):
Okay, so Leo, you touched on this earlier, the Neli Patel article in The Verge. Welcome to Hell Elon, Such a great Elon Elon and we come back to that again. He has banned somebody for impersonating him, Kathy Griffin. And now he is stuck in this position where he has to say no. I am so committed to free speech. Look, the private jet accounts staying up. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (02:07:19):
Yeah. He's stuck. Isn't he? Poor

Simone de Rochefort (02:07:21):
Guy. When was the last time we saw somebody flailing like this and attempting to explain the logic of the company that they're running on that company's platform A mess. It's so messy. Yeah.

Christina Warren (02:07:33):
Okay. Remember when the guy was dragged off of the United Flight?

Simone de Rochefort (02:07:37):
Oh yeah. Yes.

Christina Warren (02:07:38):
That one by on TWiTtter.

Leo Laporte (02:07:40):
Okay. Okay. No, you're right. Can't. No, you're right. In fact, Jeff Jarvis will always bring this up and we talk about the Hellscape that Facebook and TWiTtter and Instagram and he said, But yeah, but think of if it weren't for Facebook, we wouldn't have seen the George Floyd video. I don't want to paint techno any technology as bad. I feel like TWiTtter has lost somewhat lost its credibility. Maybe I'm wrong by the way, this is gonna happen to Facebook this week. Thousands of employees will be laid off <affirmative>. So in fact, I think probably Mark Zuckerberg said, Oh great, Elon just laid off 3000 people Quick <laugh> send out the email. Oh,

Simone de Rochefort (02:08:28):
Did they notify them a month in advance,

Leo Laporte (02:08:30):
<laugh>? Well, that's right. That Warn Act says you have to give them a 60 days,

Simone de Rochefort (02:08:33):
A certain percentage. I think

Christina Warren (02:08:36):
I have hopes though, this is gonna be a different situation. I obviously feel so terrible for anyone. But Simone, you mentioned this earlier, Stripe also had layoffs this week. The way they handled it was such a complete different from difference from the way that TWiTtter did. And I hope certainly for anyone who's impacted by Facebook's layoffs, that it goes is much more similar to what Stripe did. And I think that it probably will be.

Simone de Rochefort (02:09:00):
Well, I mean it is interesting. These are huge companies. TWiTtter, Stripe, Facebook. Wasn't there another company that had layoffs this past week as

Christina Warren (02:09:11):
Well? Yeah, there've been a couple.

Simone de Rochefort (02:09:12):
Yeah, there have been a lot. The recruiters in the tech world must be going nuts right now. And where are all these people going to go? But we're also in a tech recession to a certain extent right

Leo Laporte (02:09:24):
Now. This is why Facebook laid off people.

Christina Warren (02:09:26):
But they've also hired, I mean there is the argument to be made that they were to a degree beyond

Leo Laporte (02:09:32):
Lyft just laid

Christina Warren (02:09:33):
Off Lyft. That's who it was. And it's interesting because we'll have to see how this shakes out. And it's harder when you see some of the really big companies doing it. But there is still a shortage of tech workers and there are still a lot of, we're we don't have enough people to have tech jobs. But that I realize is not at all solace. Anyone who's lost their job. And I'm not trying to say that it is, but we are in this weird situation where you might have some of the bigger companies that have to get smaller, but the industry itself is still, there aren't enough people.

Leo Laporte (02:10:06):
In your role as developer advocate, you talked probably to a lot of developers at Get Hub. Yes. All the time. What's the general feeling like? We have a good skill that we will be employable and we're not gonna worry about it.

Christina Warren (02:10:18):
I think it's a mix. I think it depends on how long people have been in the industry and what their focus area is. Because it's obviously a really difficult time right now where there's a lot of s in the economy and I think everybody feels uncomfortable. And I don't know if anybody feels safe. And so I think there's that sense. But I do also think that, and one of the reasons we've seen a lot of people move into tech and upskill, you know, were mentioning one of your sponsors earlier, teaching people skills. And this becomes a really important thing to continue learning and continue growing so that you can take on jobs at other places as they come up.

Leo Laporte (02:10:50):
I have to think in the long run you have as a developer or an engineer of any kind, you have such a high level of skill and training in most cases. Unless you're really junior. Yeah, you've gotta be valuable to a economy that's run by technology.

Christina Warren (02:11:04):
100%. But again, I mean, I think it comes down to how are you willing to continue learning upskilling? And this is what I tell people all the time, and this is what you

Leo Laporte (02:11:11):
Have to keep

Christina Warren (02:11:12):
Myself. Yes.

Leo Laporte (02:11:13):
But if you're a COBAL developer, you might be able to find a job.

Christina Warren (02:11:16):
You might. But also keep in mind that if everybody just stayed with COBAL and hadn't learned other things, then we'd have a glu of people and not enough jobs for them. So I think if now it's very specialized. It's very specialized right now, it's a good point. Whereas 20 years ago, that might not have been a great place. So I think now it becomes, if what you're doing is if you've become maybe overly comfortable, maybe just work on upskilling that if you need to learn a new area they're not familiar with or

Leo Laporte (02:11:47):
Learn a new language, learn a new skill, a new technology. I don't know

Christina Warren (02:11:51):
If it's new

Leo Laporte (02:11:52):

Christina Warren (02:11:53):
I think new frameworks, but also making sure that you're up to date on whatever the latest practices are. The development practices have changed a lot even in the last

Leo Laporte (02:11:59):
Decade. That's the good news. It's seems constantly too.

Christina Warren (02:12:02):
Which I think, and that's one of the things I say to people too, is that show that you're willing to learn, show that you're willing to evolve. Because that even if you are going into a job and you don't know the language, if you show, hey, I have experience being able to pick things up really quickly and I'm willing to put the work into it, that goes a long

Leo Laporte (02:12:19):
Way. Kevin Rose, his ears must be burning by now. <laugh> always said that he hired somebody more be for their ability to learn their interest in learning, not for their existing skill set, but their desire. That's brilliant. To get to their intelligence right there. Because then you know, can learn another skill. <affirmative>. So if you're a Ruby developer and we're doing Python, but you have this desire to learn and grow and you've always stayed up to date, then I'm gonna hire you because I need somebody smart. That's more important than somebody knows Python. Cause you can learn Python. You

Christina Warren (02:12:52):
Can learn Python. I think it becomes, are you willing to be agile in that way? Yeah. Are you willing to evolve? And some people wanna do the right, which is okay, but I think that that's the thing that when I talk to developers, we try to encourage, we wanna continue learning. I know that's how I feel my own career.

Leo Laporte (02:13:07):
I do have to, this is not as quite as good as a diploma from an Ivy League university, but I do have to give you the TWiTst. It's so good. Versus Rocket Showdown plaque. Thanks to Frank W.

Christina Warren (02:13:20):
Thank you

Leo Laporte (02:13:20):
Frank. Yep. And I'll be getting the pie.

Christina Warren (02:13:23):
You'll be getting the pie

Leo Laporte (02:13:24):
A little later on.

Christina Warren (02:13:24):
A little later on later. You also have a badge though, so that's

Leo Laporte (02:13:27):
Good. I wanna do the badge, but I'm gonna save that. Cause you really gotta get some tech news. Absolutely

Christina Warren (02:13:32):
Do. Of course. We gotta do more news for sure.

Leo Laporte (02:13:34):
Finally is at the end for the fax machine there is the UK telecoms regulator. Ofcom is considering whether to remove fax services from the list of technologies that requires telecom communities to support. We've also heard a Japanese agency, which used to require faxes, starting to think about maybe we won't require faxes anymore. There are still plenty of industries banking, <affirmative> home loans in the United States. It's amazing. You buy a house, you have to fax a lot of stuff. Oh yeah. There's still companies that like those faxes. Is it the end of the line for the fax machine?

Christina Warren (02:14:18):
God, I hope so. I

Brianna Wu (02:14:19):
Was really confused by this piece because I guess I didn't understand. So you've got the fax protocol, right? That's out there. What support do we need in 2022 from the telecom companies to support facts? That was the part of it I didn't understand. Is it mandated that certain emergency services have to, Oh, that's a good question. Have a fax machine. I don't like the protocol is mature. I don't think it's probably being built on today. What do we need from telecom companies on this?

Leo Laporte (02:14:56):
It just works over a regular phone line.

Christina Warren (02:14:58):
Right? Right. Yeah, that's the thing. But it's frustrating. I think the service went outta business, but I subscribed for well over a decade a fax to email system where basically I, god know, to a certain number and they would fax it. So I would basically just say it like I would attach

Leo Laporte (02:15:15):
Or J fax. It

Christina Warren (02:15:16):
Was similar to that, but it costs less than those. But it was one of those things where I could just say, Okay, I can send you an email with the PDF attached and what number I need, and then they would fax it for me. But yeah, at this point I understand, I guess in theory saying, Oh, well we all have these machines and this protocol, but can we all just use whatever the DocuSign or whatever those things are like,

Leo Laporte (02:15:41):
Yeah, I wish more people would use that. I don't understand. That seems more secure. <affirmative> a signature is not a very secure way to verify identity. I'm looking at the Ofcom the British regulators' bulletin on this, and they don't say what specific technologies, but they point out that the many networks are migrating to IP technology. <affirmative>, which means fax services will no longer work in the same way on an IP network. So fax Fax was always designed to work as often as a sound. We're a voice network. Apparently there's something about IP based networks that doesn't work as well. The Ofcom says you don't have to, if you're moving ip, that's fine. You don't have to worry about faxes. It reflects that the use of fax services in the UK is very limited and there are a range of free or low cost alternatives available. Faxes were created in Japan. I think <affirmative>, you didn't have an easy way to print a document in Japanese so you could write it and then send it.

Brianna Wu (02:16:49):
So I could also see it with, if you're trying to compress that sound file, maybe that

Leo Laporte (02:16:56):
See the damage,

Brianna Wu (02:16:57):
Maybe there are certain parts of the protocol that just aren't audible to us and there they're restrained on bandwidth trying to support this. I think that's plausible.

Leo Laporte (02:17:06):
There is that issue of not wanting to disadvantage people who don't have a high level of technology. Australia tried to kill fax machines and hospitals two years ago. Doctors would wait around to receive documents, the fax machine, because at the time they weren't computerized. They didn't have practice management software. They didn't have computers in their room two years ago. Yeah, well it's 20 19, 3 years

Christina Warren (02:17:31):
Ago. Yeah. Okay. I mean,

Leo Laporte (02:17:32):
It's weird that they didn't,

Christina Warren (02:17:33):
Because here's the thing. I could have bought that argument 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Now it's difficult for me to of believe this because at this point I think that it almost be a much bigger hurdle to say that you need a hardwired landline in a fax machine.

Simone de Rochefort (02:17:49):
Unless it were already a rule and they couldn't allowed to send documents purely digitally. I could see that maybe

Leo Laporte (02:17:58):
Being for privacy over right privacy.

Christina Warren (02:18:00):
But again, I That's why you have, I

Simone de Rochefort (02:18:01):
Mean, they should have changed it to be clear time go, however,

Christina Warren (02:18:04):
Because is sending it over a fax really any more safe? I mean, that could be intercepted and if it goes to the wrong number or if it goes, you know what I mean? There's a lot of things that could

Leo Laporte (02:18:13):
Go wrong. How many times, even today, you, every once in a while somebody will have your number as a fax number and you'll pick up and it's beep, beep, beep. Has that happened to you recently or that Not in a while. Not in a while Happened. It was happened at least six months ago. Somebody literally

Simone de Rochefort (02:18:27):
Never happened to me.

Leo Laporte (02:18:28):
Never Was

Simone de Rochefort (02:18:29):
There some kind of drama with fax machines in the last selection cycle over here. Am I inventing a scenario from

Leo Laporte (02:18:37):
When you say over here, do you mean in this, On the planet? In the us Oh, in

Simone de Rochefort (02:18:41):
The, Yeah. Over here on the planet or where I live. <laugh>. Okay. No, that's not ringing a bell for anyone else. So I must have waited up. Nevermind.

Leo Laporte (02:18:48):

Simone de Rochefort (02:18:49):
You get phone calls from fax machines?

Leo Laporte (02:18:51):
Yeah. Don't you? I guess not.

Christina Warren (02:18:53):
It's, It's a famous episode of Seinfeld.

Leo Laporte (02:18:54):
Let me ask you this, Simone. Yeah. It's a famous

Christina Warren (02:18:57):
Episode of Seinfeld. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:18:58):
Do you have a landline, Simone? No. That's why you don't get fax calls. Oh,

Simone de Rochefort (02:19:04):
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. But

Christina Warren (02:19:07):
This is also sort of the point that I'm having. No one has a landline. I haven't had a landline and I don't know how long. Yeah, So if your business is already established, I guess. But I also kind of figure maybe you should modernize for a lot of reasons. Well,

Simone de Rochefort (02:19:20):
But I feel like there's a reason for a business to have a landline and doesn't mean they should be.

Christina Warren (02:19:25):
No, no. But most businesses don't have landlines. They have IP lines.

Leo Laporte (02:19:28):
Yeah, we have IP

Christina Warren (02:19:29):
Essential. We don't. Yeah, it's actually at this point, I don't know why you would have a regular landline of your business. You would have a pbx.

Leo Laporte (02:19:38):
The lovely Brendan Carr, one of the five commissioners at the Federal Communications Commission told Axios in an interview that we should ban TikTok in the United States. Fortunately, Carr is just one five. But does that seem fcc? I love Mike Man's response, which is Carr, who has resolute, refused to do what the FCC is supposed to do, which is protect privacy and safety with the telecom companies. Instead wants to ban TikTok, which he has absolutely no oversight of. The FCC has no authority to regulate TikTok or who does those cfius, the Council on Foreign Investment in the us and he's saying they should ban it. We don't agree with that. Right. We were talking about TikTok and propaganda.

Simone de Rochefort (02:20:34):
So I think it's all red scare bs. Frankly, red. I don't downplay. I think there is maybe an ideological danger there, but I think it is massively overplayed. And I think honestly at its core, this is a reaction. So many of our large social networks in the US are US founded. Obviously that's very different in China where there's a lot of state owned social networks that are massive that we don't have access to over here. I think this is a knee jerk reaction of fear to being like, Oh wait, this is tangentially. This is related to their social networks. We can't have that here. And I don't know. It's very silly. I think.

Leo Laporte (02:21:19):
Yeah, I have to say, I agree. I feel like Brianna

Simone de Rochefort (02:21:22):
Disagrees with

Leo Laporte (02:21:22):
Meuse myself.

Brianna Wu (02:21:25):
Not that disagree. It's that how can I put this? It's not that I think TikTok is a unique threat. I do think there's national security stuff we have not thought about with social media. I was talking about it earlier in the show. I think it carries over to TikTok. I also have to say I'm married to someone who has Chinese parents. I've Chinese relatives. It's just hanging out with them this week. And just in China, there's a completely different approach to how they see privacy and the way that they take pride in their companies in a way that I don't hear us talking about Facebook and Reddit. It's just not in the same way. And it is synonymous with the government to a certain extent. So I don't wanna dismiss those fears. I just want a standard that Facebook and Reddit and all these other sites are held to as well. I do think we need to start thinking about Nat Sack. I do think we need to start thinking about your control of your own data over there. And I just think there's a wider conversation to be had here.

Leo Laporte (02:22:34):
Fair enough.

Simone de Rochefort (02:22:35):
Especially as we go into an election year coming up in a couple years. I think misinformation is going to be, again, a huge problem. I don't necessarily see that as a China specific danger. <affirmative>. Yeah. I don't know. I don't,

Leo Laporte (02:22:56):
I think this is one where you can also say the dangers in the house is inside the house. Yes.

Christina Warren (02:23:02):
Right. Yeah.

Simone de Rochefort (02:23:03):
<affirmative>. I will say, look,

Christina Warren (02:23:04):
<affirmative>, I think that one of the bothersome things to me about TikTok is that there has been some evidence that it looks like it's essentially kind of a keylogger, a lot of the things that the app does to track you, which I think is really gross. Do I think that the government should be getting involved in banning it for whatever reasons that I don't really agree with. But if there are things, for instance, happening on a platform level where they're doing things that they're not disclosing, then honestly that is a great opportunity for Apple or Google to step in and saying, Hey, you're not disclosing this or this information that is getting changed to

Leo Laporte (02:23:36):
Ban from the app

Christina Warren (02:23:37):
Store. Well, yeah, because here's the thing. If essentially doing a keylogger and doing everything that people are doing on within that app and capturing every minute option, you're not letting people know that. I think

Leo Laporte (02:23:53):
That violates the

Christina Warren (02:23:54):
Ster rules. Exactly. So that to me is really problematic. And I understand that there might be some concerns about the way that these platforms could be leveraged and used by foreign parties. But I also, I don't know, I'm, I'm not ever going to think that our government has the capabilities to enforce these things the right way or understand the technology well enough. <affirmative> we don't. Or that we wanna give them that. We know the

Simone de Rochefort (02:24:23):
Facebook, it's slippery slope to state run media, state run social networks right there. And

Leo Laporte (02:24:27):
We know that Facebook was used to manipulate and has been used <affirmative> for years to manipulate the electorate very clearly. You're gonna ban Facebook,

Christina Warren (02:24:37):

Simone de Rochefort (02:24:38):
Well now you're onto something. Maybe we should just get rid of all social media. <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:24:42):
You won't find a take it back around. Nobody ever tried to influence an election on master that I can tell you that right now.

Simone de Rochefort (02:24:48):
Not yet. Not yet, baby.

Brianna Wu (02:24:50):
I just wanna be really clear here for everyone listening or watching. I'm not saying wish a band talk. I'm saying there are real national security concerns. Yeah. We need to take those seriously. That's all I'm saying. Absolutely. Y'all like democracy is really under talk around the world. Name a country, bad stuff is happening, strong men are winning all around the world. This is a real problem and we've gotta start thinking about

Leo Laporte (02:25:17):
It. Yeah. Well, I don't disagree. I just feel like TikTok is probably the worst way to do that, where you can really get something the job done on TWiTtter and Facebook and other places. TikTok, it's just a bunch of cat videos

Christina Warren (02:25:32):
And stuff. Well, no, it's not

Simone de Rochefort (02:25:33):
Entirely. No, it is

Christina Warren (02:25:35):
A radical information medium. Well, no, but it is also radicalizing people in certain ways more than

Leo Laporte (02:25:39):

Christina Warren (02:25:40):
I think it's in for some groups. And I think the same way YouTube is, because what happens is the algorithm is so much better than YouTube or TWiTtter or other things, <affirmative>, that it will get you into the same sort of self perpetuating thing. I think that's the fear. But I don't think that's something that we should be legislating just because of the company, the country, that

Leo Laporte (02:25:58):
It's not about China, it's about the algorithm. Right?

Christina Warren (02:26:00):

Simone de Rochefort (02:26:01):
They're definitely, Oh, gone.

Leo Laporte (02:26:03):
No, please, Simonon.

Simone de Rochefort (02:26:04):
I was just gonna say that there are accounts on TikTok that are news accounts, but it's like a person summarizing and

Leo Laporte (02:26:12):
Oh, you knocked your cable loose there.

Simone de Rochefort (02:26:14):
Yep. I just hit my microphone in

Leo Laporte (02:26:16):
The exact sausage fingers. It's very hard to keep them. Oh God.

Simone de Rochefort (02:26:21):
You think I'd be safe? Podcast

Leo Laporte (02:26:23):
Can't play the break of the wind. She's gonna just ruin it.

Simone de Rochefort (02:26:27):
All right. You can hear me now though? Yes. Okay, great. People who have designated themselves reputable experts and are spinning the news in their own way, just like on YouTube. And I do see it as you said, Christina, as a related problem because it, it's a social media wide problem where we are choosing to get our news from these very niche non-expert sources. And it's not TikTok specific at

Leo Laporte (02:26:53):
All. It's funny, Cars scared because TikTok is owned by the Chinese government. But I'm more with you, Christina. I'm scared because the algorithm is so spot on. Yes. I was talking to my daughter who was 30, she said I said, People don't use TikTok for search. Yeah. She said, Yeah, they do. She said, Try it. Oh yeah. I said, Well look, what if I wanna know how old the Golden Gate bridge was? She said, Just try it. I searched TikTok and I found a bunch of videos in the building of the Golden Gate Bridge. How old? The golden. So yeah, I could see why. Maybe the same way you'd search YouTube for some information. Yes. You might search TikTok.

Christina Warren (02:27:27):
Well, yeah, cuz YouTube is the number two search engine. And TikTok I'm sure is probably climbing

Leo Laporte (02:27:32):
Ab and that was that. The story

Simone de Rochefort (02:27:35):
DI in right now too, in China, you can use DI to at discounts at restaurants and you can find restaurant recommendations and read reviews all through the app. And it is used for search in that

Leo Laporte (02:27:48):
Way. That is a China, that's I think

Simone de Rochefort (02:27:50):
Potential development of TikTok. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.

Leo Laporte (02:27:54):
She also pointed out that, and I talked to now a number of people who have multiple TikTok accounts because the algorithm is so good that if they wanna see cooking videos on their one account, that's all they're gonna ever see. So if they wanna see something else, they'll have another account that's for the car videos. Do you do that, Christina? You're not, I,

Christina Warren (02:28:17):
I've heard of people doing this. I haven't, but I, I've thought about it actually because

Leo Laporte (02:28:22):
It's so good that anything you do on it, my daughter says, Oh, if you see a video that doesn't have this content free, don't waste. Don't mop for one second. Swipe immediately. Because the algorithm will know that you watch this <affirmative>, even if it's for a second. And that will prioritize some kinds of videos by doing that.

Christina Warren (02:28:43):
Right. And it's interesting to juxtapose that with YouTube, which YouTube is basically based on what you're recently into, it has some historical things. But YouTube will show you similar things to what you've been searching for in the last few days, few weeks. But it will change over time because as you search for different things, it'll show you those new things you're obsessed with. Whereas TikTok, yes, it does seem to keep you in the same,

Leo Laporte (02:29:05):
It's like a flywheel, right? It's instant, it's fast and it's strong. She says she thinks, she notices different response depending on the time of day. She has. If you had one account, what you watch in the morning, you're gonna see again in the morning what you watch in the evening, you're gonna see again in the evening. And I wouldn't put it past a very, maybe it's too good an algorithms. Right. So that's more afraid of that than I am China. Can

Brianna Wu (02:29:32):
I pause something from a 30,000 foot v Leo? If you think about humans through all of history, we are overdosing on dopamine in a way, in modern life in a way that's completely unprecedented. Absolutely. All of human history. Think about just access to looking at beautiful people online. You would've had to be a Pharaoh or a queen in Egypt to have anything compared to what a 12 year old boy can get today, online all the time. We have so much dopamine. The TWiTtter algorithm is like, why are the reason Christine and I are so addicted to it is cuz it is fine tuned to addicting us. What you're talking about with TikTok, this is so awesome at getting you to stay in this flow and watch these cute videos. And it's not a negative experience in the same way, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine. At some point we have to start asking ourselves, Okay, so the algorithm, we can tailor this to give us tons of dopamine. We know that. At what point do we start asking questions? Is this good for society? Is this affecting national security? Is this leaving us lonely or does this make us vulnerable for misinformation? I do think that there needs to be more transparency with the way these algorithms are used by these companies. Because right now they're geared for one thing addiction and it's not serving our culture well. And I do think it's time to take that seriously.

Leo Laporte (02:31:11):
Would you say, I mean, how would you do that? If you were gonna enact a law, would you pay

Brianna Wu (02:31:18):
For Congress trying to do this? I wanted to serve on the science space and technology committee and have hearings on these algorithms. I would like to bring in smart people to look at more like public disclosure about how they tweak those things. This is think needs be more discussion.

Leo Laporte (02:31:37):
TV became a vast wasteland. I talked about Gilligans Island because they noticed ratings were higher for dumb shows.

Christina Warren (02:31:46):
Right. But there's also a pendulum suite swing, right? Because Gilligans Island was canceled. So was the Brady one all. Yeah. They

Leo Laporte (02:31:53):
Found other dumb shows.

Christina Warren (02:31:54):
No television then has entered, Did it?

Leo Laporte (02:31:56):
Gets smarter.

Christina Warren (02:31:57):
It has over time. I think about it. I mean, look, you had, within a couple of years of Gilligans Island, you had the Mary Taylor Moore show. Yeah. That was smart. Which was on the same network. Yeah. And you,

Leo Laporte (02:32:08):
Grant Tinker was famous for revamping cbs. CBS and making it smarter. Yes. Very successful.

Christina Warren (02:32:14):
You had all on the family, again, the Norman Leer stuff, you know. But that's

Leo Laporte (02:32:18):
Still more algorithm. It's still more, it's a human based algorithm. But more, let's look at ratings. Let's see what we can do. But it's all based, the difference in technologies. It's an instant

Christina Warren (02:32:27):

Leo Laporte (02:32:28):
World of Warcraft. They know Exactly. And maybe we to bring you back in there and

Christina Warren (02:32:33):
Maybe we need more of a human element in at least some of the curations. It's slower. It is slower. Maybe it needs to be,

Simone de Rochefort (02:32:39):
There's definitely, there's more smart TV right, right now than there has been. But there's also, Love is Blind season three

Christina Warren (02:32:46):
Recently to be, which is Netflix. I mean, and I'm glad,

Leo Laporte (02:32:49):
Is that about vampires?

Christina Warren (02:32:51):
Oh no, it's a dating show that is, It's fantastic. It's reality. Oh yeah. Okay. And it is

Simone de Rochefort (02:32:59):
The Nick and oh my God, I just forgot her name. Nora,

Leo Laporte (02:33:03):
Vanessa. Oh,

Simone de Rochefort (02:33:04):
Oh, I wish it were Nick and Nora Charles. Come on, give me a show about them.

Leo Laporte (02:33:09):
Oh, I just searched for Love is Blonde. That was wrong. Love is Blind. Raven and Sk share what Season three didn't show about their relationship following wedding decision.

Simone de Rochefort (02:33:21):
Oh my God. Don't spoil me. I All good. Episode three.

Leo Laporte (02:33:25):
Let me ask you something. What's the premise of this reality show?

Christina Warren (02:33:29):

Simone de Rochefort (02:33:29):
Premise of this reality show is that there are people who have not succeeded in finding love and agreed to undergo a very rigorous experiment where they are put into pods and they can to a bunch of singles who they cannot see

Leo Laporte (02:33:44):
<affirmative>. And essentially I the blind part <affirmative>. It's like Exactly. It's like the voice.

Christina Warren (02:33:49):
Exactly. But you're dating. Yep.

Leo Laporte (02:33:51):
Okay. And then you go and your chair turns around or your pod opens up and you could see who you fell in love with. And then do people, when you do people see the person they go. Oh,

Simone de Rochefort (02:34:03):
Sometimes. Yeah. And it's always horrifying. But they

Leo Laporte (02:34:06):
Always pick good looking people, don't they?

Simone de Rochefort (02:34:09):
No, that's Well, they do actually. They do. They do.

Christina Warren (02:34:11):
I'm just saying it's not always what other people, It's not like. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:34:14):
And all three were hooked on this. Well,

Christina Warren (02:34:17):
Simone and I like Brianna probably isn, Brianna likes Simon

Brianna Wu (02:34:20):
<laugh>. I may watch less Trash TV than Christina and

Christina Warren (02:34:24):
Simone. Simone and I are also really big on the 90 day fiance universe. Yeah. Yeah.

Simone de Rochefort (02:34:29):
My point is less is not certainly that anyone should watch. Love Is Blind. Don't be like me. But there is a lot of, if you look at the Netflix homepage right now, there is a lot of digestible trash reality or reality.

Leo Laporte (02:34:44):
Some of that's cuz it's cheap to make.

Simone de Rochefort (02:34:45):
Yes. It's cheap to

Christina Warren (02:34:47):
Make Westworld sell that

Leo Laporte (02:34:49):
Platform. Westworld is extremely expensive, but Westworld also is extremely incomprehensible. Well,

Christina Warren (02:34:55):
Westworld was probably really a good two season show and probably were honest. I mean I, I'm sad it was canceled, but it was also probably time. Yeah. Nobody, oh,

Brianna Wu (02:35:03):
Season three four were so good. I'm so bummed about this season five. They were really going to an interesting place.

Simone de Rochefort (02:35:10):
But I think you do see a desire for a return to the Gold Age quotation marks of tv. Breaking Bad is something that has crept back into the conversation. Oh yeah. I think partially because it would, I think, be hard to make a show like that in this climate where everything is on a streaming service that is trying to gain subscribers and stop that bleed.

Leo Laporte (02:35:37):
They have a different mission. They don't sell advertise. Well they do now, but they didn't Right. Sell advertising and they really didn't need ratings. What they cared about is churn,

Christina Warren (02:35:48):
Which is always an H, the word, H

Simone de Rochefort (02:35:50):
Thing. Thank you.

Christina Warren (02:35:51):
But in hbo, I think though that kind of is Gones, the pushback is that as many corporate Ians that have happened, the content on HBO has remained consistently

Leo Laporte (02:36:02):
Not for long.

Christina Warren (02:36:03):
I don't know.

Leo Laporte (02:36:04):
I very much worry that David Zale is

Christina Warren (02:36:07):
Gonna, I mean I worry, I would worry more if Casey Boys and other people left hbo. But if that doesn't happen actually, because I was very worried about John Stinky and we had some, even the terrible at

Leo Laporte (02:36:19):
T ceo. Yes. Who is the overall edge Lord in charge of Warner?

Christina Warren (02:36:25):
He was, Yeah. And Warner and did really terrible things to a lot of that. But HBO Max's terrible name aside the programming even on HBO Max was good. That better. But

Leo Laporte (02:36:36):
Then they merged this now with Discovery. Is

Christina Warren (02:36:39):
That happening? It's going to be happening, but it's going to be running separate. Change it. I don't know. We'll see. Yeah. But as long as we still have shows succession in White Lotus and the Vow and even four season things like Westworld, I'm hopeful.

Leo Laporte (02:36:53):
Hugely expensive programming,

Christina Warren (02:36:55):
But also pays off. I mean the Game of Thrones prequel series broke every single record.

Leo Laporte (02:37:02):
So it was a success. You think HBO will continue down that road?

Christina Warren (02:37:07):
I think so. I think that that was at least pretty

Leo Laporte (02:37:09):
Was Lord of the Rings enough. Was the Rings of power enough for Amazon to keep?

Christina Warren (02:37:12):
I don't think so.

Leo Laporte (02:37:13):

Christina Warren (02:37:14):
I don't think that paid off personally. I think that in They paid what, a billion dollars.

Leo Laporte (02:37:17):
Yeah, well they paid a lot of money

Christina Warren (02:37:20):
Was ridiculous.

Leo Laporte (02:37:20):
Amount of quarter of a billion. Just for the rights.

Christina Warren (02:37:22):
Just for the rights.

Leo Laporte (02:37:23):
And then a huge amount per show.

Christina Warren (02:37:25):

Brianna Wu (02:37:26):
Jump Bezos wanted that himself. I wanted to say as we're moving forward and turning the Gamergate thing into a television show, so interesting cuz

Leo Laporte (02:37:36):
Oh that's right. Now tell me about that by the way.

Brianna Wu (02:37:38):
Well we're working, we're producing it with Norman Company.

Leo Laporte (02:37:42):
No, so which, is there a book that it's based on or is it just your remem memories?

Brianna Wu (02:37:47):
I shouldn't get into it. It's, it's gonna be interesting. I promise that.

Leo Laporte (02:37:52):
And you're involved in it though.

Brianna Wu (02:37:54):
Yeah, a hundred percent. Nice. I'm actually one of the producers with it.

Leo Laporte (02:37:57):
It would make a very good Is it gonna be a documentary or fiction? I mean

Brianna Wu (02:38:02):
The pitch we traumatized now it's more fiction and

Leo Laporte (02:38:06):
Interesting. Kinda like Anna sort of

Brianna Wu (02:38:09):
A little bit more fact based. But what I was gonna say is, it's really interesting cuz my original pitch for this that Norman Lear's company was interested in is I wanted to turn it into more of a series. So you just keep going forward in time for however many seasons you can do that. It's so much easier now to sell that limited content six episode, 10 episode thing and if it does very well, you'll come up with an excuse to bring it back for season two. What was that watcher show on Netflix? Which is terrible. Don't waste your time on that. But it's just a trend with, rather than moving towards these extremely expensive shows, Westworld something that's smaller in scope, cheaper to produce. That's just everyone involved is telling me that's why we're streaming this going

Leo Laporte (02:39:03):
It. It's really changed the equation. Yeah, because it isn't ratings driven, it's subscriber driven. Right. So apparently Netflix is going to offer this ad supported tier, which is smart because then it's only a $5 a month subscription instead $15 a month and you get ads. Although I did see that they are not letting some of their most popular shows right on the ad. The Crown will not be available. That's the ad support.

Christina Warren (02:39:30):
See, I wonder if The Crown is, because that's a joint production,

Leo Laporte (02:39:33):
They don't have the choice. They

Christina Warren (02:39:34):
Might not the right They're also not going to be doing at least they're not gonna be doing ads in the middle of films. But some of their creators want that. They don't want because they're not creating shows to be interrupted. Ryan Murphy, who's very smart I think, and a very good producer, creates his shows with React structure. So he's said that he's okay with it. I actually think that's been a problem with streaming services. HBO again is different here because they've still made shows with kind of beginning, middle end. But when you go to an era where the amount of run time could be inconsistent and when you were creating shows to be streamed and to binge watch and watched the next episode immediately after, I think that that does not play well with ad supported content because it ruins the flow. And so this is I now going, I think a lot of showrunners are going to have to learn what the previous seven decades of television producers knew, which was okay, we have to make things that can have break points of acts. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:40:37):
Yeah. Let's take a little break cuz we're going to go to act 18 of this show. It's great to have the rocket crew on, and I hope you listen to their show of We've introduced a whole new group of people to something that is really a wonderful show with Simon Roho and Christina Warren and Brianna Woo. And we're so glad to have you. The three of you coming up, I will get hit by a pie <laugh>, so I know you're all gonna wanna stay tuned for that. Our show today brought to you by Pod it's pretty clear among the other, and what we talk about on all of our shows is how technology's changing our world very dramatically. And sometimes it happens and you don't notice it. Then you suddenly wake up and for instance, who makes phone calls anymore? We text text and more and more businesses are realizing this is the way to interact with our customers.

Customers prefer this. Maybe Covid taught us a little bit when you would make a place an order and then they would text you your order's ready and then I'd say, I'm on my way and pick it up on the curb and we just got easier and easier and easier. If you own a small business, you really need to look at podium. It is a way to keep ahead of the curve by using the tools your customers want you to use. Modern messaging tools so it's easier for customers to connect with your business. It's easier for you to connect with your customers. I will tell you, as a customer, I don't wanna call a business whether it's a plumber, a landscaper, a restaurant, a dentist. I hate playing phone tag. I hate leaving messages. I'm never available to talk on the phone. I'm always available for a text message.

So if you are a business that communicates with me via text message, you're gonna get my business. If you're running a business today and the only way to get in touch with you is a phone number, I guarantee you you're losing customers. Customers who get that answering machine and get that service and go, Yeah, no, nevermind. Hang up. Podium gives businesses the tools to compete with the convenience already offered by Amazon's already doing this. The big businesses are doing this. But now as a retail business in a small town like ours, you can make such a huge difference. I know that many of the people I do business with now are using podium. My dentist, when I'm leaving, they say your next appointment and they give me the date in a way that I can click it, it goes into my calendar and then this is so smart.

Leave us a review on Yelp or Google or whatever. I click it, I leave the five stars. It's fast, it's easy, it really works. But it isn't just reviews, it's not just information. One car dealer, actually, in fact I think this happens all the time, sold a $50,000 truck and four text messages. You see this all the time now, where a dealer will text somebody, Hey, I just got the new Mustang mock in stock. Are you interested? It works. A jeweler sold a $5,000 ring coordinated curbside pickup all through texts, not once on the phone, right? A dentist sent out payment requests through texts, got 70% of their outstanding collections in just two weeks. Yeah. You can actually get payments through podium and your employees will like it. Cuz instead of a variety of different ways to communicate, you got one inbox. Everything goes into it from your website, from text messaging.

You can do more than chat. You can get those online reviews, you can collect payments, you can send marketing campaigns that get a response. You can. It's so easy, it's so fast. And your customers want you to communicate with 'em that way. See how podium can grow your business. You can see a demo today right now at, P D IU and give it a shot. I think you will see this will change the way you do business. Change the way you interact with your customers. Over a hundred thousand local businesses now. Use podium. You should too. Podium, P o d iu podium. Let's grow. Let's grow. All right, I gotta open this. I can't put this off any longer. This is so cool. All right. Before I do, we got a little video that we made that shows you some of the things that happened this week on TWiT, and I think you're gonna enjoy a watch.

Christina Warren (02:46:43):
She's so cute.

Leo Laporte (02:46:44):
Yeah. Yeah, she's sweetie. Yeah. What is her? It's not, She doesn't taste really good though. <laugh> the breath. How's the breath?

Christina Warren (02:46:55):
Has Christina get to Pet

Leo Laporte (02:46:57):
Lily? Hi. Lily's not here right now. Sorry.

Christina Warren (02:47:00):
That's okay. That's

Leo Laporte (02:47:01):
Okay. She's a toy poodle. A teacup. She's so, She's really tiny. Oh my God. You saw that We got her a little vest as security.

Christina Warren (02:47:09):
Yes. <laugh>. I saw that. I was like, Oh, she's your security. She's your guard dog. I love

Leo Laporte (02:47:12):
It. She's in charge. Yeah. I love it. She's really, really sweet. How

Christina Warren (02:47:15):
Big do they get?

Leo Laporte (02:47:16):
That's it. That's it? I think so. Yeah. Oh,

Christina Warren (02:47:18):
Okay. That's the, That's dog I want. Okay. But I didn't realize. Okay, cuz.

Leo Laporte (02:47:22):
And she doesn't, she's not a yappy. Sometimes small dog's can be ypi. I don't know. She might be. She's still a puppy, but apparently she's not gonna get much bigger. And she's very quiet and

Christina Warren (02:47:34):
Calm. Amazing.

Leo Laporte (02:47:35):
So tell me about your event this week.

Christina Warren (02:47:38):
All right, so GitHub universe is taking place on Wednesday and Thursday and it's kind of a celebration of all the development things happening on GitHub and the open source by the way.

Leo Laporte (02:47:47):
And this is unsolicited. I love GitHub. I was very nervous, a lot of us that when Microsoft bought it, it would somehow become a corporate same. And I know people left for GitLab and their own Git instance. I never left. And I'm using it more than ever. I have a paid account now again, and I use it for my blog. It backs up my qo blog. I have a 30 repositories cuz I do a lot of fun stuff. And it's great. I love it. I'm very happy with it. I have public repositories and I have private stuff. I have all my dot files are on there. Yeah. I love GitHub those. Thank you. And Martin, your colleague is here. Yes. From Northern Ireland. Yes. He came out for this event. He

Christina Warren (02:48:28):
Came out for this event. Yeah. Cuz he's a big deal.

Leo Laporte (02:48:31):
He's a big deal. Yeah. He said he is your driver.

Christina Warren (02:48:34):
He is. He is. Well, okay. I mean that's what No, he

Leo Laporte (02:48:38):
He's your boss too. He's

Christina Warren (02:48:39):
My boss too. Oh, I'm so sorry. No, no, it's, That's great. No, he's also, he's the vice president of developer relations.

Leo Laporte (02:48:43):
He, you can have, He's fantastic. If you want the beef jerk, you can have it. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to slap your hand.

Christina Warren (02:48:49):
No, he loves this. No, and actually he was the one who, this was his idea to make these badges. So these we're giving them to people who attend the event. Some of our we're kind of doing a beta test. These are,

Leo Laporte (02:49:01):
Can you get the over the shoulder Bens? Yeah.

Christina Warren (02:49:03):
These are for some of our GitHub stars. And some community members get

Leo Laporte (02:49:07):
A badge or 2040. So this is from the future.

Christina Warren (02:49:09):
Yeah. So this is, you'll see it is

Leo Laporte (02:49:14):
Okay. There's a floppy disc.

Christina Warren (02:49:15):
No, it's, No, that's open

Leo Laporte (02:49:16):
It. <laugh>. Okay. That's definitely a floppy disc.

Christina Warren (02:49:20):
No, that's the badge.

Leo Laporte (02:49:21):
It's a zip disk. <affirmative>. No, it's in the bubble wrap. Yep. Oh. And I got the nice GitHub lady. I'm gonna wear this everywhere. This is awesome.

Christina Warren (02:49:29):
So this is program, Well this has a raspberry pie 2040 in it. Oh, you're kidding. No,

Leo Laporte (02:49:33):
You can't even get those rights.

Christina Warren (02:49:36):

Leo Laporte (02:49:37):
Oh, look at that.

Christina Warren (02:49:38):
It's e ink. So when you turn this on,

Leo Laporte (02:49:41):

Christina Warren (02:49:42):
Yeah. So you're a battery. Gets a battery

Leo Laporte (02:49:46):
And there's the battery. Here's the battery. Here's two AAA's. I just found out I can buy 300 AAA's for 30 bucks from Amazon. So Amazing. I'll be set to run this forever. I

Christina Warren (02:50:00):
Could do it. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I was gonna say, my nails unfortunately are nonexistent. And I also got a manicure for GitHub Universe. And you

Leo Laporte (02:50:07):
Would play too much of that link game.

Christina Warren (02:50:09):
That's exactly it. No, I've been biting my nails actually. But no. So what's great about this? Are you nervous? No, I just, Well, I mean naturally. Yeah. Okay.

Leo Laporte (02:50:16):
So I used to bite my nails when I was a kid.

Christina Warren (02:50:18):
So this is also programmable. Yeah. So it's got, comes has a USB port.

Leo Laporte (02:50:21):
Okay. So this plugs in. Yep. Batteries in here. I'm gonna plug this in. Yep. It's got an EIN screen. Yep. So the idea is your visitors would wear this. So you do, you'd program it, Get into the show. You program it

Christina Warren (02:50:34):
So you could program it. Yep. And then,

Leo Laporte (02:50:35):
Oh, it's for coders, isn't

Christina Warren (02:50:36):
It? Yeah. But it's also got some easy fairly easy things that people can do.

Leo Laporte (02:50:41):
Coders probably know which way to stick this in. I certainly am not having any like, Don't, Christina, It's so funny. She really wants to, She wants

Christina Warren (02:50:50):
House so

Leo Laporte (02:50:50):
Badly. She wants, It's so cute. She's like, her

Christina Warren (02:50:53):
Little hands

Leo Laporte (02:50:53):
Are coming in. I can do it. I really can. But le, go ahead. You wanna try that? I put the battery in for you. It's teamwork. Makes the dream work.

Christina Warren (02:51:00):

Leo Laporte (02:51:01):
Exactly it. And I got this. And then this is for charging up something or I can't obviously use the USB cable while I'm in walking around the sh Ooh, you got nice soft ones. That's good. Like that cable. Oh my god. It has my name on it.

Christina Warren (02:51:16):
Yeah. Oh my God. Oh my God. Yep.

Leo Laporte (02:51:21):
Oh, that is

Christina Warren (02:51:22):
Sick. And Martin, what buttons does he need to press to? I think the power just went out.

Leo Laporte (02:51:27):
Actually, no, it's just cause Oh, it's E ink. So it doesn't matter if the power went out, it's gonna stay there.

Christina Warren (02:51:33):
Okay. Wait, can I scan a QR code? Hang on.

Leo Laporte (02:51:35):
Yeah. What are you gonna get if you, No, I think, Oh, the power went out. Oh, there it is. It just came back. It's probably, it's

Christina Warren (02:51:41):
Oh, I might not have gotten it in all the

Leo Laporte (02:51:42):
Way. Loose connection. Maybe the

Christina Warren (02:51:43):
QR code links to your profile on

Leo Laporte (02:51:45):
GitHub. It links to my GitHub profile. Leo LaPorte Wow. laport. You can see my eax

Christina Warren (02:51:53):
Configuration. Yeah. And now, so when I did it, it's gonna

Leo Laporte (02:51:56):
Show you your activity. Oh my God, it's so cool. I better get to work. I only have 20 contributions.

Christina Warren (02:52:01):
I scanned it. I

Leo Laporte (02:52:05):
Fast. You're fast. That is really, really neat. I'm gonna have to get more stars though. That's 10. Outta 10. I'm embarrassed. Wow. Martin, what a great idea. GitHub universe. 2022. Now you do. Not everybody gets this. You have to be special.

Christina Warren (02:52:21):
But we're hoping that we'll get feedback from people and then maybe we can start to do this at more of our events, because I think it's really cool. And this is Martin's brainchild. And Martin actually programed these, I have to say

Leo Laporte (02:52:32):
All of them. Yeah. By hand. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh> one by one, inch by inch. Slowly. I turn, Well make sure that no pie gets on this when I get hit in the face. That is so cool. Could I, Can I reprogram it? Is it It's Python. It's Python. Okay. Very nice. Where do I interface with, Oh, there's a little

Christina Warren (02:52:54):
Yeah, there's a usbc

Leo Laporte (02:52:55):

Christina Warren (02:52:56):
So you can just come. That's

Leo Laporte (02:52:57):
The cables for, Yep. Oh my goodness. Boot reset. Wow. I want, that's, Oh, God's GitHub universe. It's coming up this week. You can do only a part of, It's in person, right? You can be,

Christina Warren (02:53:12):
You knows hybrid. So all the stuff is gonna be online. So if you can join us in person, that's great. But otherwise you can go to GitHub Wednesday and Thursday we'll have, We have over a hundred sessions and really good content's gonna be going on. Content will also be available after the event. So if you can't join us as soon while it's airing live, it'll be available online very quickly afterwards. But it's gonna be really, really a fun

Leo Laporte (02:53:34):
Time. I get the idea, Martin. I don't have to apply power once I've got it. Exactly. I take the battery off. You

Christina Warren (02:53:39):
Can take the battery off and then it

Leo Laporte (02:53:40):
Shows. And now to stay that way.

Christina Warren (02:53:41):

Leo Laporte (02:53:43):
The ink is smart. That's really cool. Oh, I love this. Look at that. That is so cool. Thank you very much. And thank you for doing a great job with GitHub. Are you having fun at the I

Christina Warren (02:53:56):
So much. I love it so much. Thanks to people like Martin and my other colleagues and obviously community members.

Leo Laporte (02:54:02):
I got a checklist came up, keynote hack, badge, hug, but chat, eat, sleep code, learn. I'm gonna show you this. That's hysterical. That was I guess I pressed one of the buttons. Look at that. Wow. Is there other secret stuff in here? Oh look, I could check. Click 'em off. Press

Speaker 9 (02:54:22):
A and C

Leo Laporte (02:54:23):
Together. A and C together. He's giving us some secret stuff. This is an exclusive. Nobody knows about this yet. Nope. Wow. Oh, this is cool. Image list is this Touch? No, I get it. I can just press that. Press A or C for launcher. Ah, very cool. Well anyway, we'll play with this some more. Thank you Martin. And thank you Christina Warren. Of course. That is great. Yeah. See the battery's coming in and out. I gotta

Christina Warren (02:54:50):
Get it better. Someone's asking if it plays doom. It does actually. It does. I think Martin did actually get doom running on this or found something. Are you serious?

Speaker 9 (02:54:58):
Particular badge, but you can do it on the,

Christina Warren (02:55:01):
Yeah. Okay. So on this particular badge, we don't have it going, but you can on the, with the 2040. So it's possible. Yes.

Leo Laporte (02:55:09):
So freaking cool. Do you have, I bet you do. Cuz I do have a badge tree somewhere in your office of all the badges. Yes. But this is gonna be the one, right?

Christina Warren (02:55:19):
Isn't that, I mean, I'm so excited about this event and about this and yeah, so if you wanna join us, like I said, what's the website? GitHub

Leo Laporte (02:55:28):
GitHub Thank you, Christina. Thank you. I forgive you.

Christina Warren (02:55:34):
<laugh>. <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:55:36):
Thank you. Forgive you in advance. All

Christina Warren (02:55:38):

Leo Laporte (02:55:40):
Thank you Brianna. Woo Rebellion Thank you for putting together this quiz. That was so, that ended so badly. I

Christina Warren (02:55:49):
Can't follow

Brianna Wu (02:55:49):
Christina in that badge. I was hoping you're gonna go to Simone. I can't follow that.

Leo Laporte (02:55:54):
No. Isn't that cool? Isn't that cool? Well no you, we have this Frank w, this fabulous Frank W drawing, thanks to you. There we go. Very happy about that. Christina won it, but that's okay cuz we have the file <laugh>,

Brianna Wu (02:56:06):
She bar, she barely, barely

Leo Laporte (02:56:08):
Won. It's not an

Brianna Wu (02:56:08):
Nft. I didn't wanna say this. For election night. For election night, I'm gonna be doing analysis and coverage over on Sirius xm. Oh, good. Progress station on there. Oh good. So I will be doing election night analysis if you wanna tune into that. But other than that, Leah, just to get really sincere with you here you TWiTt has been so generous to me, and I know Christina probably feels the same way in my career, giving me a platform to come on here and for you to invite all of us from Rocket here today to be here with you. It's a professional honor and we've always really, really get this face you've

Leo Laporte (02:56:51):
Given us. Well, we love you guys and honestly this is a thrill for me. So I'm very happy. I'm a big fan, so it's really very happy. Thank you. Brianna, just before I let you go, prognosis Tuesday, any ideas? What's gonna happen?

Brianna Wu (02:57:09):
I am optimistic. I'm optimistic. I think this isn't a political show, but we could get into the polling. I think they're really underestimating the number of women.

Leo Laporte (02:57:19):
So polling has a problem because it's still tied to phone numbers, landlines, are they doing sales? They

Brianna Wu (02:57:27):
Try to cheat it with predicting and tweaking the algorithm. And I think people's bias, it

Leo Laporte (02:57:31):
Doesn't reflect their reality as well. And we've seen this, It's been off. It's been off. We've seen this last couple of elections. Yeah,

Brianna Wu (02:57:39):
They're getting worse, not better.

Leo Laporte (02:57:41):
And right now it's almost too close to call. They're going up and down, but it really seems too close to call. So I hope your team wins <laugh>, lady lady. I hope your team wins whatever team that might be. But I think the most important thing to tell everybody is

Simone de Rochefort (02:58:01):

Leo Laporte (02:58:02):
Need to vote. You need to vote. And I think we as geeks, we often think, cuz we're smart, it doesn't matter. It's all rigged. Most of these people are awful. Anyway, there's all sorts of rationales. It's too complicated. It takes up too much time. I don't wanna, But honestly, if you don't vote, you don't get to complain. If you don't vote, you don't have a say. It may not be a perfect system, but it's the system we've got. And we need you to vote, please, every one of you. Except if you're under 18 <laugh>. So go <laugh>. So if you, it's too late if you haven't registered. But if you have and you've got that ballot in hand, everybody in California gets mailed a ballot. <affirmative>. But if you get

Simone de Rochefort (02:58:45):
Hand, Washington State as well. Yeah. So I've already wrote it even though I'll be here.

Leo Laporte (02:58:48):
Good. So I already sent mine in. In fact John looks like you sent yours in. He's got his big sticker. I'm gonna wear mine on Tuesday. But you can save your sticker John, and you wear it on Tuesday. But I couldn't say how important this is. This <laugh>, if it goes really bad, this could be your last chance to vote ever. <laugh>. So please, I beg of you exercise your right to vote and I'm not telling you how to vote. You vote your conscience, you vote what's right. Do your research. Really don't listen to other people. Don't listen to propaganda. Do your research. Find out who's best, especially in your local election, cuz that's where it really counts. <affirmative>. But do Absolutely please. I beg if you vote, and I know Brianna, you feel the same way and I sure do. I will be listening on Sirius XM on Tuesday, cuz I'd love to hear what you think. It'll either be a celebration or

Simone de Rochefort (02:59:43):

Leo Laporte (02:59:45):
<laugh> or something. <laugh>. Hey Simone, I'm sorry about the fingers, but I'm so glad you are so creative. It was somewhat, I love those chaos questions even though I don't understand 'em at a lot either. That's the beauty.

Simone de Rochefort (02:59:59):
Yeah. Nobody understands me.

Leo Laporte (03:00:02):
Great. You work supervising video producer Polygon, What kind of videos you do?

Simone de Rochefort (03:00:09):
I have a very big project coming out that I just realized I can't talk about. Oh no. We make video essays about video games over at We've had some fantastic ones this year. My colleague Pat Gill made one basically looking at the entire history of the Call of Duty franchise and how evolved from this Steven Spielberg esque World War II story into something that is intrinsically tied to the military industrial complex, or more accurately the military entertainment complex in the United States. Some really interesting stuff there. And since we're such a small team, we now have a lot more leeway to spend time on these projects and really make them special. So I hope that you enjoy our,

Leo Laporte (03:00:57):
Are you just on camera or do you get to how much?

Simone de Rochefort (03:01:01):
Listen, pal, we're such a small team. We pitch research, write, shoot, edit, and host our own videos.

Leo Laporte (03:01:12):
All five. Just five of you doing all of that? Yeah. Wow.

Simone de Rochefort (03:01:15):
I can't remember how many of us there. Five or four of us now. That's embarrassing but I'm bad at numbers. But yeah,

Leo Laporte (03:01:23):
We have a lot of 9 million subscribers. So you're doing something right. That's awesome. I hope so. I hope you get the platinum button for your house to hang that on the wall. Cause you really need more things on the wall. I

Simone de Rochefort (03:01:36):
Don't think it'd be in my house. I think it'd be in the office, but Okay,

Leo Laporte (03:01:39):
That's fine.

Simone de Rochefort (03:01:40):

Leo Laporte (03:01:40):
Cool. What is the game show?

Simone de Rochefort (03:01:42):
Oh, we're also, I should say we're on TikTok now as well. I will play a link to the past if you are on TikTok. I know we talked a lot about TikTok and its problems

Leo Laporte (03:01:53):
Now I love TikTok and everybody should follow Polygon on TikTok.

Simone de Rochefort (03:01:58):
Please do.

Leo Laporte (03:01:58):
I'm gonna click that follow button right now.

Simone de Rochefort (03:02:01):
Thank you so much.

Leo Laporte (03:02:02):
I think TikTok is a great platform for what you do, <affirmative> For sure. And I bet you have a lot of fun with it. So Absolutely.

Simone de Rochefort (03:02:08):
That's the thing, There's so many videos where it's like, this is too small to make a 10 YouTube video about,

Christina Warren (03:02:13):
Oh my god, it's me. No, The one is it's See the formula one one. Yeah, Yeah.

Leo Laporte (03:02:22):
The races are

Christina Warren (03:02:23):
Very sexy. <laugh> engaging with

Leo Laporte (03:02:26):
Him. I'm gonna engage with it right now. That's awesome. It's interesting. You really see, this is where you learn the algorithm. My son's a ticker and he pays very close a attention. And he does, He's a TikTok cook and he used to cook a variety of stuff and he realized all anybody wants is sandwiches. So now he just makes sandwiches <laugh>, just like the algorithm works. But you

Simone de Rochefort (03:02:50):
Have to, There's a guy on TikTok, he's not the guy who does the roll a D 20 to decide what I put in my sandwiches.

Leo Laporte (03:02:55):
No, I love that one. No, it's salt underscore Hank he, It will make you very, very hungry. Yes. I don't recommend,

Simone de Rochefort (03:03:05):
Really. I am already hungry.

Leo Laporte (03:03:08):
I wouldn't spend any energy on

Christina Warren (03:03:10):
This. Yeah, I follow your son's TikTok and it always makes me hungry. Oh God.

Leo Laporte (03:03:15):
Yeah. Here, I'll just give you, this is, it's

Christina Warren (03:03:17):
A long show.

Leo Laporte (03:03:18):
16 million views of this particular sandwich. Well

Christina Warren (03:03:23):
Yeah, I'm gonna send

Leo Laporte (03:03:23):
You like it. He's playing some eat his pee off in the background honey. Like that, huh? Pretty cool, huh?

Simone de Rochefort (03:03:31):
Oh, I love everything about

Leo Laporte (03:03:32):
This. Yeah, I know. I'm very proud of Hank. This is why I have to recuse myself on TikTok conversations cuz I, Right. Best thing ever happened.

Simone de Rochefort (03:03:42):

Leo Laporte (03:03:44):

Christina Warren (03:03:44):
Like, well it's problematic, but also my son is TikTok famous, so

Leo Laporte (03:03:47):

Christina Warren (03:03:48):
He used to say around, Yeah,

Leo Laporte (03:03:49):
Exactly. Knock it or Actually that's the best place to go cuz you get it. Links to all of the above. Darn

Brianna Wu (03:04:00):

Leo Laporte (03:04:01):
Thank you.

Brianna Wu (03:04:02):
So Leah, before we end the show, I wanted to make you aware of something for me. I'm really big into speed running, and I know you're a big Val Heim player. I was looking at this for the speed run category for Val Hunt. There are only four people, only three people who have ever bothered speed running that game. So if you record yourself,

Leo Laporte (03:04:25):

Brianna Wu (03:04:25):
Beginning, what's

Leo Laporte (03:04:26):
The fastest time of the current?

Brianna Wu (03:04:28):
Fastest time is three hours and 38 minutes.

Leo Laporte (03:04:31):
I have hundred hours now on the Val Heim. Man, I haven't finished.

Brianna Wu (03:04:35):
I'm just saying if you record it, you can submit it and you'll be one of the leaders

Leo Laporte (03:04:41):
There. Okay. And what do I get? Do I get Pi?

Brianna Wu (03:04:44):
You get well, you're

Leo Laporte (03:04:45):
Born, you getting Yes. Notoriety, Fame. Thank you. I love you. Thank you for being here. Christina Warren film Under Girl Developer, a senior developer advocate at GitHub. It is so nice to have you in studio. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Martin, for being here as well. It's been a lot of fun. This

Christina Warren (03:05:06):
Has been so great. Thank you so much for having all

Leo Laporte (03:05:07):
Of us. Yeah, kind of a silly show. It was so good. But you know what, as it turned out, we didn't have that much to talk about, so it's good. We had some other stuff to throw in. And why have I

Brianna Wu (03:05:15):
Been sitting here for

Christina Warren (03:05:16):
Three hours? <laugh> <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (03:05:18):
I know why. I'm gonna tell you why for this moment in time, ladies and gentlemen, we do TWiT every two Sunday. I'm getting a little nervous. Two Pacific, 5:00 PM Eastern Time, 2200 utc. Note the new time. We are now in standard time. You can watch us live,, chat with us or in the Discord if you are a Club TWiTt member after the fact on demand versions of all our shows available on the website, there's a YouTube channel for this in tech and all of the big shows as well. You can watch shows there. It's a great way to share clips because YouTube makes that easy. And of course the best way to subscribe, I'm sure you say this about Rocket too, is to get your podcast player and type in this week in tech and subscribe. And that way you'll get it automatically every Sunday just in time for your Monday morning commute. <laugh>, I wanna say this, thanks for joining us, everybody. We'll see you next time. Another TWiT. Christina gets the honors, right? Of course. Oh, so I just wanna tell you, if you had lost, I was gonna still hit myself with the pie. I wasn't gonna Well you,

Christina Warren (03:06:24):
I'm gonna hit you with it and then you can hit me with that. How's that? No, I won't. No, no. I'm

Leo Laporte (03:06:27):
Happy to you. I'm confused. No, but I'm for one thing, I live here. You've gotta go home. You gotta go to a hotel. I I, right. Ladies and gentlemen.

Brianna Wu (03:06:36):

Leo Laporte (03:06:37):
It's in the camp. Oh god.

Brianna Wu (03:06:42):
Harder. Do it harder.

Leo Laporte (03:06:45):
Yeah. You gotta swish it around. Really? That's kind of tasty. You good? Are you with the cherry? I need a little windshield wiper though, on my glasses. It's a good thing.
Yeah, there you go. It's a good thing. I'll wear the glasses. Yeah. Another TWiT is in the pie pen.

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