This Week in Tech Episode 866 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show. 

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for TWiT This Week in Tech, Evan brown is here formerly, This Week in Law. Larry Magid, CBS radio. Carolina Milanesi. Lots to talk about Apple's big announcements. Why did they put an eye iPhone chip in the new max studio display? I'll never understand that. CNN starts streaming. Is that the place to get your news? In fact, where do people get news these days? And of course an Amazon clubhouse contender. There's lots more to talk about. Stay here, TWiT is next.

... (00:00:36):
Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Leo Laporte (00:00:48):
This is TWiT This Week in Tech episode, 866 recorded Sunday, March 13th, 2022. Can't talk doing laundry this week at tech is brought to you by wealth front to start building your wealth and get your first $5,000 managed free for life. Go to and buy worldwide technology and checkpoint software technologies. When was the last time your company updated your security strategy are your assets protected, WWT, combined strategy and execution to secure your organization and drive business outcomes. Visit to get started and by better help, give it a try and see why over 2 million people have used better help online therapy as a listener, you'll get 10% off your first month by visiting better and by mint mobile, if saving more and spending less is one of your top goals for 2022. Switching to mint. Mobile is the easiest way to save this year. Get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month and get the plan shipped to your door for free. When you go to mint, It's time for TWiT this weekend tech show, we cover the weeks tech news got a great panel joining us for warmer host of this weekend. Long with Denise Howell. I didn't realize it's been so long. Since you've been on the show, Evan brown, he was on TWiTter a couple of months ago, but you haven't been on this weekend long, long time.

Evan Brown (00:02:35):
I know 2014. Wow. Time flies.

Leo Laporte (00:02:37):
It really does. It really does fly. Anyway. Welcome back. It's great to see you. I always wish I had legal advice during this show.

Evan Brown (00:02:45):
So if you wanna do what I can today

Leo Laporte (00:02:46):
Whisper in my ear and say, you can take the fifth on this Leo, you can. I won't be. I will be glad to have that. Also with this Larry Magid from connect, you still do stuff on CBS. Yes.

Carolina Milanesi (00:03:00):
I still do stuff on CBS.

Leo Laporte (00:03:01):
Yes. Yeah. And connects new week and connect safely is a great organization to help parents and children stay safe on the internet. Also joining us the heart of tech, Carolina, Nazis. Good to see you, Carolina.

Carolina Milanesi (00:03:18):
Congrat. I'm

Leo Laporte (00:03:22):
Gonna melt. I'm gonna melt right now.

Carolina Milanesi (00:03:25):
I just did it for you.

Leo Laporte (00:03:26):
Oh, I love that. I love Italian. I'm really jealous. Matthew Ingram is going to Peru for the annual journalist. Have you ever done that? Oh, nice. Have you ever done that? Journalist concert. Peru is beautiful. New medieval city. In fact, my sister lived there for six months to study Italian. They have an Italian intensive program there

Carolina Milanesi (00:03:48):
They do. Yeah. It is a beautiful city. Yeah. And obviously gorgeous chocolate.

Leo Laporte (00:03:53):
Oh obviously.

Carolina Milanesi (00:03:54):
Oh, now I'm sold.

Leo Laporte (00:03:56):
Obviously it's funny. Cuz the Germans fight over who has the best verse, the Italians, the Belgian, the French, they fight over who has the best chocolate. I take the chocolate over

Carolina Milanesi (00:04:06):
The, well we fight over ever

Leo Laporte (00:04:07):
If they wine,

Carolina Milanesi (00:04:08):
Right cheese, cheese,

Leo Laporte (00:04:09):
Who has the best cheese, I don't know. Let's try some more and find out. So Carolina was watching with interest. I saw your article as apple unveiled new hardware on Tuesday, don't worry. This is not gonna be an all apple show, but we have to mention it. Cuz I think apple has really shown some real skill and leadership in the chip field. These apple Silicon is just starting to lap the other guys in really remarkable ways. The M one ultra, even apple was able to have a secret at this event. Actually the Mac studio was kind of a secret. In fact, if anything, this, this event showed that the rumor mongers can be very wrong. They were talking about a a Mac mini that had Plexiglas top. They were talking about a seven K display, neither of which appeared. We knew there'd be a iPhone se.

Leo Laporte (00:05:03):
That was, you know, pretty much, you know, on schedule the iPhone se with 5g and a chip equivalent to the current iPhone 13, a very powerful, a 15 chip. They announced an iPad pro with the M one chip, no PR not pro iPad air with the M one chip, but verging on pro territory. But the most interesting thing to me was this, this apple Silicon in the Mac studio. And what apple, was it? John Turner or Johnny se? I think it was John Turner, apple, senior vice president for hardware said we have one little thing we didn't tell anybody about with the M one chip. It has a built-in interconnect and as everybody pretty, the way apple would move forward with their Silicon just as Intel and AMD have done is to do multiple core architectures. But when you're doing multicore architectures with the M one you're they have their, each dye has its own memory, its own AI processing, its own video processing and they glue them together.

Leo Laporte (00:06:01):
And the interconnect is the fastest interconnect anybody's ever seen. So apple has this really great story going forward. In fact, everybody predicts. You got the ultra, which is two of them stacked one on top of the other. It's just a matter of time before you have four or eight 16, you could, you really, the sky's the limit, very impressive processor. The interconnect is 2.5 terrabytes per second, kind of mind blowing 800 gigabits gigabytes per se, memory bandwidth, cuz remember the memory is unified memory it's on chip 64 up to 64 cores on the CPU on the GPU rather a 20 core CPU, 32 core neural engine, but Carolina, you were most interested in the display.

Carolina Milanesi (00:06:56):
Yeah, I was interested in, in first of all, the range that they showed, I think it was the first event where we saw pretty much apple addressing the whole user base that they have right from the creators and the really demanding users with the max studio over way down to DSE user who are most pragmatic users that you could possibly have within the apple ecosystem and not so not only because of the size. I think a lot of times we get focusing on, you know, how big is DSE is? No, it's really about familiarity of things like touch ID instead of using face ID.

Leo Laporte (00:07:39):
It's I have to say, when you look at, it looks like an old phone, the touch ID dates it, the big bezels dated a little bit, the rounded corners. It's the old design who wants touch ID. What's the touch ID? Why

Larry Magid (00:07:53):
I like ID?

Carolina Milanesi (00:07:55):

Larry Magid (00:07:56):
I like it. I've got it on my, although I don't like the way Google implement it on the pixel six. Was it on the screen? But

Leo Laporte (00:08:02):
The new touch ID with the Samsung and the Google, that's all in screen technology,

Larry Magid (00:08:05):
But good. I actually have, I have an old, this is not the phone I use normally, but I have an old life iPhone look at that. And it's just, this is I think the six, I, I actually use it for specific apps. I don't even have a SIM card in it, but the point I'm making here is that it I like the touch ID. If it's positive, it, it works well. It works almost all virtually all the time. You don't, you don't have to worry about whether you got a face mask on. I know they're trying to fix all that, but I, I just prefer

Leo Laporte (00:08:32):
It. Is that, is that why this is still around Carolina cuz face masks?

Carolina Milanesi (00:08:36):
No. And, and, and apple is already fixed. They've already with, with with the software in the phone or if you have an apple watch, you can, you can definitely open up your iPhone with a mask, right? No, it, it is really about people that like what they know and you know, to, to Larry's point, yeah, as a six. And that's where the base for the new SES, the six, the seven and the eight that have been around for so long. And, and also the fact that people that are a little bit more pragmatic and ti and price sensitive don't wanna pay for things that they're not actually using. And so getting to that, you know, $400 price point with 5g, the face chips that you are giving a phone that is gonna last them four or five years, which is normally the life of a cycle of a more pragmatic user and for apple is, is kind of a, a win, because that means that they can get, you know, those users can get to appreciate or the new features, but more importantly, the services that apple puts a, their disposal.

Carolina Milanesi (00:09:41):
And that's what it is, is about, you know, future proving your purchase as a consumer and for apple, making sure that they bring those consumers with them as they drive more and more services.

Leo Laporte (00:09:52):
This is what happened with I'm thinking back to the iPod that the initial iPods were targeted at a higher end market. But by the time the iPod had reached it full life cycle, there was an iPod for every pocket book. Yeah. Every need, every desire. That's how you double down on a product that is so successful. There's none more successful than the iPhone,

Larry Magid (00:10:10):
Especially when you consider, you know, they're filling razors and razor blades, both at a profit, the idea that the they're still making plenty of money on the se. And to the point, if, if they people sign up for apple services, they're making money on an ongoing basis. So get an app, get an apple on their product. And also maybe they'll buy a Mac. Maybe they'll buy another iPhone later on. So it, it gets people under the ecosystem

Leo Laporte (00:10:32):
$450 is still expensive, but it's comparable well with the kind of, it's a mid range price. They $200 and less an Android.

Larry Magid (00:10:40):
I mean, there are people who buy Androids at that price all the time. And if the only reason they're buying an Android is because they like the price point, right? Apple now has a competing product. And so I think that's and

Carolina Milanesi (00:10:51):
A smart in it, you know, usually on the Android device is that vet point. You do have somewhat of a compromise on the chip set that they use, because to be honest with you, pH philosophically on the Android side, there's a limit that they put that the brands put on what they think those user want to do with their phones and apple is doing that right. Is giving them the best chip for now that they have so that they can do what they want to do. And you know, some of the advantages of having the eight 15 bionic is obviously the camera and, you know, doing more with just one lens.

Leo Laporte (00:11:35):
This is a big problem in the Android world where you have, have a lot of phones that cannot be updated. You even can get phones, brand new phones that, that aren't gonna be guaranteed security updates next year. So it's a,

Larry Magid (00:11:47):
The only Android I re I only recommend pixels. I mean, if you're gonna buy an Android, I know a lot of people love Samsung thug, but if you're gonna buy an AMA an Android, I really recommend a pixel because you're gonna get the latest software. You're gonna get pure Android. It's the closest thing Google has to an iPhone. And I, I just think it, it runs circles around any competitor out there in the Android world,

Leo Laporte (00:12:06):
Samsung, which is, I think the biggest seller of smartphones in the world

Larry Magid (00:12:09):
Probably is

Leo Laporte (00:12:09):
Yeah. Has said we are gonna guarantee

Carolina Milanesi (00:12:13):

Leo Laporte (00:12:13):
Yes. Yeah. Huawei in China.

Carolina Milanesi (00:12:15):
Well, I'm saying after Huawei was cut off of Google. Yes. Right.

Leo Laporte (00:12:19):
They have said four years of guaranteed updates. So they are responding to that.

Larry Magid (00:12:25):
But how quickly will you get your update? Will you get a day one like you

Leo Laporte (00:12:29):
Will, or, well, that's an interesting point cuz I have the latest Samsung S 22 ultra and it still has the January security update we're in March, you know? So that, that's a good point. There there's a little bit of a cuz it's, they've so modified the OS and the apps that they have to do a lot of testing before they release them. Right.

Carolina Milanesi (00:12:46):
They are getting better though, because they know that them a lot, especially, especially in the enterprise space where they are trying to get more aggressive to compete with apple. So we should definitely see an improvement on the rollouts and they also differentiating less from a software. They getting closer and closer. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:13:05):
That's right.

Carolina Milanesi (00:13:06):
To Google. So less

Larry Magid (00:13:08):

Leo Laporte (00:13:08):
Yeah. Yeah. They're even using Google's messages is the default messenger, which is a huge shift for Samsung. You,

Carolina Milanesi (00:13:14):
You asked me about the display, right? Yes. Because I thought that, that was interesting as I was listening to, you know, the, the rollout of, of all the features. I was expecting something around three grand, you know, we know that the latest display that they launched a couple of years ago was $5,000. And like yeah, 3000, you know, with, with the brand that, but they came out with a quite aggressive price point of, in my view to be apple and getting what you're getting with it of 1600. And that made me really think about what apple is changing is using first of all, using Silicon as a differentiator. So we seen the M one go into an iPad error, honestly, not something that I was expecting. We seen the, a 13 in the display to power some of these experiences like center stage.

Carolina Milanesi (00:14:10):
And so using Silicon as a differentiator and then using a device like display at a price point to appeal to a broader audience than not just the Mac studio potential buyers, right? This is not just you buy the two because you're the most demanding users. This is for somebody that might have a MacBook somebody that might have an iPad that wants not just a display, you can get cheaper display with similar features, but that end to end experience so that you will get like center stage. And yeah, you can use it with a PC as well, but some of those experiences that are not gonna be there.

Leo Laporte (00:14:51):
I think one of I, I was very puzzled by the fact that they put an I a 13 bionic in a display. That is, that is the iPhone elevens processor. That is a faster processor than they put in the apple TV. And yes, I guess it powers, you can say, Hey sir, on it, although it still requires a computer to respond and yes, they have center stage on the camera so they can zoom and pan as you're on your zoom call. But it doesn't, that seems like an awful lot for, to put an a 13 in just for those things. So I'm wondering if there is something down the road that apple wants to do with this display. I mean, it honestly could be an apple TV. I don't know if they put enough memory storage in there to be an apple TV. Probably not, but it could be, or it could be a hub for your home kit. There's things you could do with that. You've put a lot of smarts into a, a monitor. It's

Carolina Milanesi (00:15:44):
Becoming more important, right? We we're doing this hours and hours of the, of day. And I do that. Screens will become way more important in the future as we talk about am ambient computing. And and I, I agree with you, I think it could become a hub or you know, something around TV or maybe around some of the services. Like, you know, what, if you can run just on the display, something you are apple fitness plus as an example, right?

Leo Laporte (00:16:15):
The other reason they did it of course though, is because I, and I think that this has proven the case as the week has gone by, they're gonna phase out the big iMac, not just the iMac pro, but just the 27 inch iMac. And, and, and for the same price, you're gonna get a separate at Mac studio studio display, which you, you know, when you put together, when you put the Mac studio on that special tray under the screen, it's very much like an iMac. It makes sense to me, it's an iMac deconstructed. This is actually what I was hoping apple would do. And it was why I was gonna buy a Mac mini because I don't, I wanna have a choice of displays, a bigger choice than a, than apple can offer. And I have a lot of 5k, IMAX and iMac. I have an iMac pro and I feel a little hobbled because I can't, it's not very upgradable. It's just, it's just what it is. And so I think it

Larry Magid (00:17:03):
Gets back in the future. Leo, I think that was called the desktop PC at

Leo Laporte (00:17:06):
One point. Yeah, it's kind of, but in, but it's in a very apple way. They, you know, and by the way, I have to point out and I, I don't know who did this. It's very funny. This is what one of the publicity images they sent out a creative person using. And this is the, the Mac studio really is just a very fat Mac mini, but the top half is really where the fans go. So I think what happened is they were trying to design it in the Mac mini size and they realized we gotta cool this sucker, especially the ultra. In fact, they have a copper subs cooling subsystem in this for the, which makes it two pounds heavier for the ultra it's aluminum in the Mac M one at max max studio. But notice, look carefully. I don't know if anybody picked up on this at this plant in the background, it's in an old iMac. Can you see that it's in the trash can iMac, she's turned it into a flower pot

Leo Laporte (00:18:05):
Now I'm apple has to have done that on purpose, right. Or, or did somebody with somebody punking them or maybe it maybe just looks like a, but I'm pretty sure that's. I think you can even see an apple logo on there if you look really closely. So I'm pretty sure that's a trash can Mac in the background there. You know, that's not new was just a interesting, I honestly feel like there, this is my theory. There were two contingent in apple during Johnny Ives era, there was the Johnny ive crew wanted to be simpler, more beautiful, the Mac, their trashcan Mack, a perfect example of that, the thinner and thinner Mac books with the touch bar and the butterfly keyboard. That's the Johnny ive crew. And then there was the functional crew who said, no, it doesn't matter. These are power tools. They should be more functional.

Leo Laporte (00:18:59):
And they won. I've left the trash can, couldn't be upgraded. Apple had to hang its head and shame and say, yeah, we blew it, but can't upgrade this. Cuz the cooling designed doesn't allow for it. They got rid of the, a touch pad touch bar. They got rid of the butterfly keyboard, this new, these new MacBook even have HTM. I ports on them, which Johnny ive must just be tearing his hair out. And I think this is a little shot. I hate to say it, but I think this is a little shot. This Mac trashcan Mac in the background designed by Johnny ive is a little at that crew. I think they won. And they're basically,

Larry Magid (00:19:35):
Well, there's another person in the background too. Unfortunately, very much in the background, Steve jobs who was, was so he

Leo Laporte (00:19:42):
Was designed about

Larry Magid (00:19:43):
Every little centric. Yeah. He was a design fanatic. Yeah. And I, I'm not sure he would be in love with this new, this, these new devices. You

Leo Laporte (00:19:49):
Know, you look at this fat boy, this thick Mac. It isn't the most salubrious design.

Larry Magid (00:19:57):
I, I, I don't think Steve, John would've loved

Leo Laporte (00:19:59):
It. No, it's a little swollen. Yeah. But it's purely functional and it's got the ports on the back. I think the monitor has more ports. I think they have four type C ports, one Thunderbolt, four, three type C USB. I would like to see more, especially since it has an I 13 in it. I feel like that monitor could be doing a lot more. What

Larry Magid (00:20:23):
If keyboard is very different

Leo Laporte (00:20:25):
Now this is the new keyboard too, which you, by the way you pay, I don't know what it is. 50 bucks more for the black keys. I,

Larry Magid (00:20:31):
Yeah, I've never apple black

Leo Laporte (00:20:33):
Keys. This is new. That's new that's they announced that as well. Wow. And of course, if you're really a style of Maven, you're gonna wanna pay the 50 bucks extra to get the black keys.

Larry Magid (00:20:43):
Well, if you can afford it, an I Mac can do a trash can, you can afford 50 bucks for

Leo Laporte (00:20:48):
A flower pot. Yeah.

Larry Magid (00:20:51):
Flower pot

Leo Laporte (00:20:52):
Probably doesn't make a very good flower pot, but who knows? Anyway, we ordered, I ordered the high end Mac studio to arrive on Friday. I had a, by the way, you gotta order fast these days from apple, I guess, by because of the chip shortage. They say, you know, you, you could pre-order it right away. Before E Tim cook even left the stage, I was in the store. If you ordered today, you're gonna be waiting until April 26th for the high end and April 5th for the M one pro I'm sorry, M one max version of the studio. So a lot of people, a lot of I've noticed lot of edits putting that SD card slot under the type C to make a little face. I think apple missed a bet there that could have, could have been cute. Could have been smile. You know,

Larry Magid (00:21:39):
What's funny about that. If this were any other manufacturer computer, nobody would come up with that idea. Nobody would pay any attention. I know to whether it's a face or not a face.

Leo Laporte (00:21:49):
There's something about apple people. They're just a little, yeah. A little weird, little different obsessive. Anyway, I, it is, if I were Intel, I would be a little bit nervous. Intel keeps saying, oh no, we can make chips that are that fast, but they use five times the amount of power, five times the heat and you better not 'em in a laptop or you're gonna have a puddle aluminum SL in your lap. This is, and this is just, I feel like just the beginning for the apple Silicon they're really, and they have such a huge advantage because the operating system is designed with the chip in mind and vice versa. This is essentially a, a swift machine. Pretty amazing. It's a five nanometer process. That's the other thing Intel's had a little trouble doing.

Larry Magid (00:22:34):
Did it also give apple some independence, you know, in terms of like, I mean, I, I, I don't know where they're making these ships, I assume in China,

Leo Laporte (00:22:41):
TSMC makes them

Larry Magid (00:22:42):
So, I mean, but

Leo Laporte (00:22:43):
In Taiwan,

Larry Magid (00:22:44):
In Taiwan. Okay. Well, I mean, I, I'm wondering whether, you know, if apple is becoming more ask of its own domain by not having to depend on other companies for, you know, as many components, including obviously the vital components of the CPUs, if they other companies are having to do.

Leo Laporte (00:23:01):
Yeah, actually because of the geopolitical situation in the world these days, I think a lot of companies are really starting to say, Hmm Hmm. Chip shortage and, and so forth. Apple has already started encouraging TSMC is building a plant in the United States. They've started building plants in India and Brazil and other countries Vietnam, I think. So I think there is definitely, this was Tim cook, brilliant move early on was to concentrate iPhone manufacture in China, get the skillset built up there. Really was a smart move to, to get TSMC, to be the Foundry because the, of the skillset TSMC built, they were able to build five nano, you know, chips long before Intel was. So that was a brilliant move, but there's a cha, but

Carolina Milanesi (00:23:53):
That's why Intel is, is investing so much that's right in the us.

Leo Laporte (00:23:57):
And Intel wants to be a Foundry too. In fact, they wanna supply apples chips.

Carolina Milanesi (00:24:01):

Leo Laporte (00:24:02):
Yeah. So it's,

Evan Brown (00:24:03):
Hey Leo, before we move, move on for this, you know tell me about what kind of task would max out that

Leo Laporte (00:24:09):
Nothing spec absolutely nothing. This is the funny thing. I mean, I ordered the ultra. I will never see those chips go to a hundred percent ever if you're,

Evan Brown (00:24:20):
Especially that 2.5 terabyte transfer rate. I mean, I, I can't even comprehend what that, what, what you need that for? What, what would

Leo Laporte (00:24:26):
Our Mac break weekly show Alex Lindsay, I'm sure, you know of him is a, is, does stuff. There are applications. He does something called photogrammetry, which is 3d rendering of spaces. And you have many, many, many points. Photogrammetry is a very challenging way to do 3d modeling. And and he has found models that are almost impossible to render even on, on a high end Intel Mac. So that's one thing, you know, 3d modeling, video, eight K video editing. I mean, you know, they always show somebody, I got eight, eight K videos running it once. I don't know why you would really need to do that, you know? Yeah. You can if you're using logic and you're, you know, you've got an orchestra and every, or every instrument has its own track, I guess you could probably tap out the ultra, it's it? What Alex says. It's about time. If you are a professional work in one of these fields, your time is extremely valuable. And so it's worth it to spend money on hardware that does stuff faster that saves you money in the long run. Yeah. So I think that's really it. And, and of course there's people like idiots like me, who just say, but I want the fastest, even though there's absolutely. I'll never, my, my, my crossword puzzles are not gonna challenge at M one ultra in any respect I'm gonna have actually

Larry Magid (00:25:55):

Evan Brown (00:25:56):
He's got word, tough

Leo Laporte (00:25:57):
Game world. Yeah. Maybe no,

Larry Magid (00:25:59):
That might help you. I don't think so.

Leo Laporte (00:26:02):
The fastest Wordle ever Even a Rubik's cube solver. No, no problem them. Yeah, it's hard. There's so there are specialties, like data science, like AI, like video and 3d modeling. Those are real specialties, but in the past, those have been very high end work stations. You don't hear a lot about the people are buying well,

Larry Magid (00:26:21):
It, it reminds me of people who buy the the version of the Tesla that can go 160 miles an hour.

Leo Laporte (00:26:27):
Exactly. A plan.

Larry Magid (00:26:28):
Yeah. And like on what road, right. I mean, okay. Yeah. I know. They're, it's

Leo Laporte (00:26:31):
Like owning a Lamborghini. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And Apple's not, you know, Apple's a very savvy marketing organization. They know that people will buy these. It also looks good for them because it reassures pros that apple is is still in this, in this market. Absolutely.

Carolina Milanesi (00:26:46):

Leo Laporte (00:26:47):
It's been a little scary. I mean, the iPhone was so successful that I think a lot of Mac users were a little bit nervous that apple would, you know, just lose interest in the Mac. So this is a way to reassert their, you know, their in the field. I think it's interesting, Carolyn, that you talk about the fact that these products are designed to reach a broad range of consumer price points, broad range of consumer needs. That's a smart thing to do for any technology company.

Carolina Milanesi (00:27:17):
Absolutely. And, and the fact that you are adding device to device to deliver more value, that's always been Apple's game, but now that they have services, you know, I said this at the end of my article, I think now with the services play, apple can play more, no pun intended with the, the price points or some of his devices to really hook people into their ecosystem even more than in the past.

Leo Laporte (00:27:48):
Yeah. You really, I mean, it's an excellent point. This is, I can't think of another event where they've covered the very lowest end, the iPhone se all the way up to what is currently the very highest end. Yeah. I mean, these, these Mac studio ultras are actually faster than they're in tell Mac pros by a significant amount, almost TWiTce as fast. In some cases that's a, that's a big jump in, in performance.

Carolina Milanesi (00:28:12):
And what is fascinating is they can do that with their own Silicon, right? Yeah. So they, they can play up and down with the Silicon to address or these users and then use that for their services and their application and their ecosystem. It was, you know, one of the big advantages of the design of the new chip is that for all tos and purposes for the developer, it is one chip. So you don't have to figure out, you know, how your app is gonna run. And and that's a huge advantage, again, as I'm convinced of apple as big aspirations for the enterprise market which is why really, you know,

Leo Laporte (00:28:53):
Yeah. Historically very difficult for apple,

Carolina Milanesi (00:28:57):
Very true is a very different world, right? We are the time where from a, from a talent perspective, giving employees what they want is absolutely critical. And we just did a study at crazy strategies. And there's no question that people do want max in the enterprise space. And so

Leo Laporte (00:29:16):
You that's to B Y O D hugely changed enterprise. It because of the iPhone. Everybody wanted to bring an iPhone into the enterprise, but wait, we gave you a Blackberry. I don't want a very, so you think the same thing's gonna happen on the desktop?

Carolina Milanesi (00:29:30):
I think so, because with the M one line, they can now make it much easier for it decision maker to manage, deploy, especially from an application perspective something that we've already been doing for iOS. And so, you know, the, the way I talk about it is not so much of a comparison between the Mac and the PC, but really the Mac and the iPhone and the iPad. So if you put it in those terms is much easier for an it managers to understand that the, the lift that they have to, to make for their apps is gonna be less. And, and I think that's the other part is like, you know, all of his goodness is coming to something running on arm that, you know, we've been waiting and been telling people that is, was not gonna happen. And, and it is whoop

Leo Laporte (00:30:21):
And windows on arm is still a pig.

Larry Magid (00:30:23):
Is it a factor that more people are working from home and that when people are working for home, they want more change,

Leo Laporte (00:30:28):
Then they choose what they want. Yeah.

Larry Magid (00:30:30):
You pick what you want in your house.

Leo Laporte (00:30:31):
Yeah. I,

Carolina Milanesi (00:30:33):
It's not just that though is, is, is going back and, and knowing that if you don't give people what they want, people are gonna go to somewhere else. I mean, the reality of the Italian war is, is, is what it is is, is not, you know, people sometimes think, well, well, you know, everybody has a mortgage to pay. Sure. But there's choices there. And I think with, with hybrid work and remote work, there's more choice for people cuz I don't have to necessarily relocate to go and work for somebody else.

Leo Laporte (00:31:05):
Couple of thoughts came to mind as we were talking about this one, maybe that's why you put an, a 13 bionic into the monitor and now you can run iOS apps on, on your monitor. I don't, I don't know how you would do that or what that would mean. I don't know if they put memory in, in there, but that's really weird. It is, they certainly were selling that as part of the benefits of Mac OS is that you can run your the vast wouldn't number of

Larry Magid (00:31:32):
A screen wouldn't you want? Well, maybe

Leo Laporte (00:31:33):
They meant maybe they wanted it. Maybe that was it. Maybe they wanted to put a touchscreen in there. Maybe they will in the next generation. That's interesting.

Larry Magid (00:31:40):
It's about time.

Leo Laporte (00:31:42):
I don't know. Apple said for a long time, they didn't want touch screens, but at the same time, this is a new apple, this is not Johnny Ives apple anymore. Right. 

Carolina Milanesi (00:31:50):
I I'm still skeptical or something like that, cuz you don't take, although I have a surface studio, which is an all in one design that, you know, that tells and you can use it to do inking and drawing and ever thing else for the majority of people. If it, this is just a regular screen, so you don't have it close enough to you. It's just not practical. You're not gonna stay all day with your hand like that. Right. To do what you need to do. Right. I think it would make much more sense to have a MacBook please with a time screen. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:32:25):
Yeah. I don't, it's interesting. It's a very clear line right now between the iPad line or the iOS line with touch and the desktop without touch. I, I wonder if that line is of benefit to apple so that they have a clear distinction between the two product lines. They are, they are muddying things with the iPad air. It's looking more like a pro, so maybe they don't, I don't know. It's fascinating to watch. It's a, well, it's a as Warren buffet has said, it's a well run company. So it's interesting to watch as they continue to strategize, it looks like almost perfectly to build their market. We're gonna take a little break. We've got lots more to talk about Carolyn MENA, is he or she's creative strategies? Is your, is your your analyst business? Yes. What's the heart of tech.

Carolina Milanesi (00:33:12):
The heart of tech is helping companies. So is, is still a consultancy business, but focused on you ESG and you know, anything from diversity inclusion to sustainability, to social impact.

Leo Laporte (00:33:26):
Nice God, no, your, your timing's very good. Every company's suddenly trying to say, what the hell do we keep away from quitting? What do we, what do we do? It's great to have you the heart of Larry Magids. Here he is. Of course connecting safely, helping kids, families connect safely connect that's. But that started as kind of like a passion project.

Larry Magid (00:33:51):
It did actually, it goes back to 1994 when I wrote child safety on the information highway. Wow. For the national center for missing exploited children. And I started save and you know, the other thing is we've evolved. We, we started out around parents and kids and we still that's our sweet spot, but we have an LGBTQ guide. We have a dating guide. We have three guides for seniors. So we're expanding way beyond families and kids these days,

Leo Laporte (00:34:15):
Front page right now. How to talk with your kids about the war in Ukraine.

Larry Magid (00:34:20):

Leo Laporte (00:34:21):
Yeah. It's hard to be a parent these days. I, I think that's great.

Larry Magid (00:34:25):
Hard to be a human being these days.

Leo Laporte (00:34:26):
Yeah. Maybe that's it. Yeah. Fortunately, Evan, Brown's a lawyer. He doesn't have to worry about that. Evan brown. I'm just teasing. Just a joke.

Evan Brown (00:34:36):
Just rise above it.

Leo Laporte (00:34:37):
Just rise above it. Evan, the law, what can at internet cases implies you do internet law?

Evan Brown (00:34:45):
Yeah. Well internet cases, what I, I used to now you know, switch that over to internet case is still my, my TWiTter handle. So yeah, a lot of what I do touches on the internet by necessity. My elevator pitch is I do technology and intellectual proper. So represent, you know, a lot of software companies and companies in other industries bringing in a, a technology solution. So, you know, contracts, intellectual property,

Leo Laporte (00:35:12):
Couldn't be a better privacy, better time to do that. Boy also,

Evan Brown (00:35:15):
It's it it's been a wonderful run so far these 20 years and every day gets more exciting as we all know.

Leo Laporte (00:35:21):
Well, what's the in, I mean, you're in an you know an area that is rapidly changing and that the laws have not kept up with. And so it's really an interesting thing is we try to grapple with technology legislatively and legally. And so yeah,

Evan Brown (00:35:36):
Fascinat, there's always a tension, you know, with innovation people figuring out that's right To do new things. Well, what are the rules? That's right. And so, yeah, intellectually, it's very satisfying to, you know, have the profession of, of, of thinking about these things and working with innovators and, and creative people. That's the real delight in, in what I do

Leo Laporte (00:35:54):
Great to have all three of you, Keith five 12, and I chat room. Larry says he, he saw you on an old computer Chronicles the other day.

Larry Magid (00:36:02):

Leo Laporte (00:36:02):
We old timers. Many of us still living down those early, early TV

Larry Magid (00:36:07):
Parents. You think the 2 86 chip is never gonna, we ever, we need something that powerful.

Leo Laporte (00:36:13):
I, I am really grateful to be an old timer in this business cuz we seen such changes. I mean this, when, when you and I were starting out, this was a, you know, very small hobbyist business. Yeah. Hobbyist industry. And, and you had to go to a user group to figure out how to do this stuff. And software came in, in Ziploc bags, Xerox, Migra pages it's really changed dramatically in our lifetime. And it's fascinating to watch. I really

Larry Magid (00:36:41):
I'm. And the only reason I got any work going on is that I actually knew a teeny bit of technology and I knew how to write. And there was yeah, almost no one who, who could do both of those things. Same

Leo Laporte (00:36:50):
Thing. If you, the combination of being able to talk in full sentences and knowing about technology so rare.

Larry Magid (00:36:57):
Yeah, exactly. But they even hired you and me at the time.

Leo Laporte (00:37:01):
It was a huge opportunity. I show today. Speaking of opportunities brought to you by wealth front, a lot of investment apps make it easy to start trading. Maybe I dunno, people like me say too easy. But just because it's easy, doesn't mean, you know what? You're doing wealth fronts easy makes it easy and invest easy to grow your savings. They have a very popular app. So yeah, it's got an app 4.9 outta five stars in the apple app store. So you can start investing in no time if you wanna use their classic portfolio, but you can also make it your own with things you care about. They have funds. Yeah. Look at that cannabis, healthcare, social responsible funds. That's my, you know, preference. If you wanna invest in tech or, or crypto trust. Yes, they have crypto trust as well. Wealth was designed by financial experts to help you turn your interest, your good ideas into great investments, but you don't have to do it all yourself.

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Leo Laporte (00:38:51):
Tech, please. You support us when you use that address. Don't you know, I know you're smart. You could just go to the app store or go to But if you would just do me, just do me a favor, So they know you saw it here. Thank you. Wealthfront for your support. Apple did not talk about new versions of Mac OS new versions of iOS, new versions of iPad, OS all of those becoming a early next week. So there was, there was, you know what? This was a case of apple, a very tight 57 minute presentation, not a lot of frills in past years Apple's remote presentations have had drone shots and they were out in the desert or in the woods. And they had people coming through floor and through doors. And remember there's a lot more production value into this.

Leo Laporte (00:39:39):
This one was very straightforward. It was just like, boom, boom, boom. Maybe because the amount of stuff they had to present, maybe they didn't wanna distract from the very interesting stuff they were saying. Alex Lindsay on Mac brick Wiley thought it was maybe because they were gonna stop doing remote events. They're gonna start going back to input events and they wanted to kinda ease you back in ACE people, ease people back in, not, not the most exciting production value, but really very exciting content. So pretty good. All right. I've been of every show we've done in the last three weeks have been about Ukraine and about the war Ukraine. There's a huge tech side to this Evan. I'm sure you'll have lots of stuff to say about it. This is a, well, I think the first thing we were talking about this on the radio show, I was very nervous.

Leo Laporte (00:40:28):
There's two things that make me nervous about this war with Ukraine. One is that it will heat up into world war II and that is still a risk. Putin's a madman and we don't know what he's gonna do, whether he'll use tactical nuclear weapons or chemical warfare. And at what point do, do we say, you know, all right, that's a bridge too far. I don't know. That's a terrifying prospect, but even more approximate I thought was the, the risk of cyber warfare. And that hasn't happened. Yeah. Any thoughts, Evan? Why we haven't seen this hot cyber war or cold cyber war?

Evan Brown (00:41:05):
I suppose the easiest answer is that we've been prepared for it. That security professionals have been able to, to foresee it and you know, stop attacks that, that have occurred. You know, you only hear about the ones that, that are successful, at least in the, in the mainstream media. We, we hear about those, but it could also be, and, and this is perhaps a bit more cynical that there is a, a playbook of, of tactics. And, you know, as things deteriorate from Russia's perspective in the, the Ukraine or as it gets more entrenched or however you want to characterize that it's gonna it's deteriorating for everyone. Maybe there's, there's, there's more to, to come. But I would like to think that there have indeed been attacks and that we've been well protected because we've thought it through. And we have smart people thinking about cyber security on a day to day basis down where the, the rubber meets the road. What do

Leo Laporte (00:42:00):
You think Russia, in the early days before the war used Ukraine as a kind of testing ground approving ground for their attacks, they brought their power grid down for a few hours a couple of years ago, just before the invasion began. They shut down the financial system, but in both cases it only lasted a few hours. And I'm wondering if maybe Ukraine got the message and hardened its cyber defenses before the war began. I that'd be my guess. I thought we were very vulnerable, you know, 75 us intelligence estimates, 75% of all ransomware attacks come from Russia either because they are tacitly supported by Russia or Russia's turning a blind eye to them. But I don't think it's an accident that 75% of all ransomware comes out of Russia, including by the way, the colonial pipeline shut down, which is a big infrastructure attack in the us from a Russia hacking group called Darkside. We don't know if Putin was behind that or just turned a blind eye to it. But you know, that, I think in a way in 2018, we founded CISA, which was all about infrastructure, cyber defense in the United States, the cyber security and infrastructure security agency, and maybe they deserve some credit for doing a good job. As you said, Evan, and, and locking stuff down, or maybe that mad dog hasn't been cornered quite enough to, to let loose the hounds of hacker hell. 

Larry Magid (00:43:31):
I have a feeling that, that the, what you just said is more like likely that they have an arsenal. And clearly if you look at what's going on in the ground in Ukraine or on the air in Ukraine, they have a lot of tools in their tool chest that they haven't brought out yet. So it would not surprise me if Russia has plans. Maybe they maybe, you know, we've hardened enough that they had to hold off on the plans, but I wouldn't breathe a sigh of release. Oh no. Anytime soon around cyber attacks in the us,

Leo Laporte (00:43:59):
The the other possibilities is it's the same thing that kept us from nuclear war for so many years, mutually assured destruction. I mean, they have their hackers, but we have ours. Yeah. Right. Maybe they're afraid of what we might do back. I don't know. Maybe they're more vulnerable.

Larry Magid (00:44:14):
Anonymous is already on the case. I don't know how they're doing, but

Leo Laporte (00:44:18):
Yeah. Anonymous

Larry Magid (00:44:19):
Going after Russia.

Evan Brown (00:44:21):
And it's interesting to see how everyday folks in Russia are already suffering in many of the ways that we would, if there were a right cyber attack that we, we, we can anticipate, for example, in the financial systems, you know, if, if you can't get your money out of the bank, that's gonna cause a real problem. That's going to have a ripple effect into so many areas. Well, you can turn on the news and see folks in, you know, every day, Russians trying to get money from the ATMs, particularly folks who have us dollars.

Leo Laporte (00:44:49):
It's so sad. So sad. Yeah.

Larry Magid (00:44:51):
Yeah. Well, you could turned on the news next week. Now, if you turn on the new, who don't have any correspondence at a working at a

Leo Laporte (00:44:56):
Russian we'll never know. Yeah. Yeah. So

Larry Magid (00:44:59):
Who knows what's

Leo Laporte (00:44:59):
Going on there? Although, you know, we're seeing lots of videos, cell phone videos, it's the world has changed dramatically. And we, we're seeing lots of cell phone videos smuggled out of Russia by Russians who are against the war. I think we'll have boots on the ground sort of in Russia for some time to come.

Evan Brown (00:45:16):
There's some good telegram channels, too

Leo Laporte (00:45:18):
Telegram. The thing is maybe a piece of evidence, maybe not. Russia clearly was developing the ability to shut down the Ukrainian power grid that, that they definitely were making efforts along that line. And I think they would, if they could, at this point, they, they tried to do it by bombing two nuclear plants, which is crazy very dangerous if they had that cyber ability, I think they would have done it. And I think they must not have that ability that somehow Ukraine has prepared itself. I hope so too. A little different attacking the us that might be a provocation that Russia does not, does not get ready to engage in.

Carolina Milanesi (00:46:03):
And, and I think to your point,

Leo Laporte (00:46:05):
Go ahead, Carol, go

Evan Brown (00:46:06):
Ahead, Carolina, go ahead.

Carolina Milanesi (00:46:07):
I was just gonna say to your point about, you know, money people struggling with money, never, and we've cut back on access to technology so much already, not just from a, from a government perspective, but you know, tech has cut back in supplying you know, everything from chipset to memory, to all the key ingredients, if you like for them be able to continue to operate in, in a, in a manner. And then you have connectivity issues. And, and I think all of that puts women in a weaker spot when it comes to, you know, going and attacking somebody else from, from a cyber perspective.

Leo Laporte (00:46:52):
It's, it's too early to say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway, cuz I have high hopes. It it's possible Russia could lose that. They actually could lose this, that the, that Ukraine could triumph. I think it's looking more and more like that might happen,

Evan Brown (00:47:09):
I think. Is that really a binary question though?

Leo Laporte (00:47:11):
Maybe not. I, you know, I think what's pretty clear is a Putin is not going to stop. He's not gonna say, oh yeah, let's have peace talks. Okay, fine. I, you don't, you know, you can run your country the way you want to. I think the Russian bear has to be defeated. I don't think it's gonna give up, but I think it's a possibility and I think maybe Putin should be thinking about his own tale right now you wrote a piece Larry on connect safely, Russian cyber attacks are possible. Yeah. Be prepared, but not panic. Now you wrote that earlier this month. I don't know. It's right. What do you think?

Larry Magid (00:47:42):
Well, I think, you know, the point we've been making is that I actually did expect to see something by now in the United States. And I'm, as I said, I'm not breathing any size of relief that we're not in the future, but I think what's what will happen is that people will be indirectly affected. And I, you know, I took the, in this article, I kind of took the worst case scenario that maybe you should have some extra cash on hand because they could shut down the financial system. I don't say they will, but theoretical they could, they could impact it. It's always a good idea to have extra food and extra water on hand. It's always a good idea to have ways of charging your smartphone and you know, the usual things. And by the way, everything that I said in this article applies to earthquakes fires. Yeah. Any disaster manmade or natural. So I'm not urging people, you know, take any extra of precautions. I'm just saying that in a period of uncertainty, it's not a bad idea to have, you know, a few hundred bucks. If you, if you can, if you can put that much together in a safe in your house, not a bad idea, batteries way to charge your cell phone from your car, you know, et cetera, et cetera, because it could happen probably won't but it could happen. The

Leo Laporte (00:48:51):
Reason this is a tech story is because we are singularly more vulnerable because we are so reliant on tech, we've kind of put ourself in this position, right?

Larry Magid (00:49:00):
Yeah. Well, absolutely. I mean, you, if you think about even, you know, when, when Facebook goes down for two hours, if it's a front page story yeah. And you know, what did we do 20 years ago? We didn't have Facebook. Well, we, we managed to survive, but tech has become, it's a very good point. And one of the things that I'm, I'm very pleased about is the cellular network is apparently working in Ukraine. I mean, I'm, I just saw today people being interviewed from, from their phones in Ukraine. So there is infrastructure, but it's all, it's all vulnerable. And if it goes down, those reports that we're getting are gonna are gonna disappear along with it. So, you know, technology is, is our lifeline right now, both in the United States and still in Ukraine.

Leo Laporte (00:49:43):
Nickle who is now the minister for propaganda, I'm sorry. The, the, the senior vice president at the meta in charge of global affairs tweeted, responding to reports, the Russian government is considering designating meta as an extremist organization for its politics or policies and supportive speech, by the way, I'm sure Nick like just loves being able to just say that. See, we're, we're, we're, we're important. He says has been a lot of coverage. I wanna be clear, our policies are focused on protecting people's right to speech. You know, this has really just taken a, this kind of annoys me. It really feels like taking a, a horrid situation and making public relations points out of it. To we're only gonna to be the fact is if we applied our standard standard content policies without any adjustments, we would be now removing content from ordinary Ukrainians, expressing the resistance of fur at the invading military forces, which would rightly be viewed as excess unacceptable. We're gonna only apply this policy in Ukraine itself. We have no quarrel with the Russian people. There's no change at all in our policies on hate speech. As far as Russian people are concerned, they really they're in a tough position. We will not tolerate Russia, phobia. There's a new word or any kind of discrimination, harassment, or violence towards Russians on our platform. Okay. I wouldn't wanna be involved.

Carolina Milanesi (00:51:12):
The slipper is slope though, as well, right? Because I understand where they're coming from, but is, well, you know, are you gonna say the same thing when people hear, start to, you know make their voices heard about voting rights or, you know, the say no gay bill or anything else that's going on in this country?

Evan Brown (00:51:36):
Indeed. this really does touch on the heart of the problem of content moderation. And I see it as a danger of placing these sorts of powers in the hands of, of private industry, where there can be a model applied that differs from the standards and the analysis coming from those standards under the first amendment or other free speech principles in, in other countries around the world. So it really does expose a weakness in the approach here. I don't know that reasonable people could disagree that there is a certain amount of arbitrariness guiding these judgements. Like for example, what Facebook is making, allowing posts, inciting violence so long as it fits in categories that are defined, certainly using words here, but there always is a, a subjective amount of judgment as to where those contours of those, those categories lie. So this, this really is pointing out a, a, a weakness in the overall problem that, that, that, that, that we're seeing here, oh,

Leo Laporte (00:52:41):
I would not wanna be in their shoes. That's for sure.

Larry Magid (00:52:43):
It's one of the reasons why Zuckerberg keeps talking about, I mean, he he's talked about why he supports legislation regulations. And I think part of it is they would like to get off the hook. I mean, I think that Facebook has gotten itself into a very tough position of being an Arture of, of speech where, you know, and they, and they know it's kind of above their pay grade. It is not something that private companies should do. Sure. They have a right to do it on their platform, but given the, the size, their platform and the power of their platform, should they have that right? Or should that right. Belong to somebody who's accountable to the people, but then you get to the question what that means and to what people, but it, it's a very tough situation. And I've talked to people at Facebook who really, you know, you, you can say all you want about the negatives of Facebook. And there are plenty of good things to say about that, but there are people who are really struggling with these issues about which right do we enforce, which right do we impinge on? And, and it, it's hard for a private company to do that. It's, it's hard. I mean, Evan, you're a lawyer, you understand the complexity that our legal system deals with and why we have a Supreme court. Cause these issued their hard, even for learned judges.

Evan Brown (00:53:50):
I, I really like that, that you said that Larry, because it really a, a, a platform is in a double bind, you know, cuz you pointed out and I think you made a very rational proposition that this ought to be done or it, it may improve if it's done when there is accountability to the people. Well, who it then that is responsible usually who plays that role of accountability to the people? Well, that's the government. So then what do we need to do then to ensure that there is a appropriate application of the principles that the government is obligated to deal with, namely in, in the United States, the, the first amendment how do we do that in a way that is, is even handed fair? I would submit that there's probably not much more to do other than apply those first amendment principles that have developed over the last 240 some, some, some years.

Evan Brown (00:54:41):
So it's all a matter of bringing it in and contextualizing it and making it appropriate to, to to, to where we are now. And I think that, I think we can be optimistic to think that there are approaches that are going to be viewpoint neutral, still protective of certain classes of people. For example, people who are the targets of violent threats or hate speech or defamation, those things that don't enjoy first amendment protection, it's all a matter of figuring out how to do it. The first step is figuring out what principles ought to apply, but we can get there. I think

Larry Magid (00:55:11):
It's hard enough law in one country. They're trying to do policy for almost 200 countries. Yeah. Yeah. And how do they, how do they even begin to do that? I mean, not every country has a first amendment.

Leo Laporte (00:55:21):
Well, you could do what mark Zuckerberg did, mark. And Cheryl said, Hey, Nick, you handle that. And

Larry Magid (00:55:28):
For an accent,

Leo Laporte (00:55:30):
You, you, you know, you, this is, I Nick like kind of basically got, they handed him a shovel and they said, see, those stables have fun, Nick, we're gonna stay over here. We're gonna build the blue platform. We're gonna run the operation and Nick's go talk to Nick. And now he's the poster boy for this. Yep. Hope he's getting, I

Carolina Milanesi (00:55:49):
Sure hope he gets plenty of money.

Leo Laporte (00:55:51):
I hope he's getting a good salary. He's not a stranger to this foreign min former minister in the UK government. What about Gordon? We can't go ahead.

Carolina Milanesi (00:56:00):
Sorry. I just want you to say we, we, can't also be blind of a fact, in my opinion, that, you know, talking about accountability, if you are of a platform owner, you are accountable. And the only reason why Zuckerberg is saying we welcome legislations is because one, he knows that by the time somebody's gonna make a decision is gonna be, you know, we are right into the middle of the metaverse that people are still trying to figure out Facebook. And two that he hopes that that legislation is gonna be used against competitors and not

Leo Laporte (00:56:33):
Exactly reg Facebook, what they call regulatory capture, you know, pull up the ladder behind you. We made it. We can do whatever they want.

Larry Magid (00:56:41):
I mean, big telecom we've benefited from regulations. Yeah. And, and there are reasons why big tech might as well. Yeah, absolutely.

Leo Laporte (00:56:48):
I wanna talk about duck doco in a little bit, but I, we also need to take a break, great panel, Evan, brown, Carolina, Nazi, and Larry, Maged all joining us to talk about the world around us. Our show today brought to you by worldwide technology and checkpoint. If you wanna talk about security, let's talk about it because no matter whether it's a, the G global political situation war in Ukraine, hackers on your back door, we always have to be as secure as possible. Especially in business. WWT is the best partner for any enterprise. They offer security solutions and services to protect your business. Remember, attackers are always updating their strategies, always finding new ways to attack. Wwts gonna help your organization prepare for and combat next generation threats. But to do that, you've gotta have a company that has the vision, the services, the capabilities to deliver those security controls, to reduce the risk for your organization.

Leo Laporte (00:57:51):
They've got their, their ears to the ground, their nose, to the wind. They're prepared to protect you against all attacks, including future attacks. Wwts team provides resources and platforms to make it possible. They've been doing it for three decades, so they've got a proven track record, but they're also focused on the future. And they are very, very well aware of what's going on. I'll give you a few case studies. You can, you can think about, you'll find lots more at They worked with a large healthcare organization. They were about to move to a certified electronic health record technology that is hard all by itself. WWT was brought to conduct a security risk assessment. WW T's experts came in and used expert knowledge state of the art tools in depth analysis. They even worked with the staff to do training and rapid ti by the end of the assessment, of course, they'd made this healthcare organization confident.

Leo Laporte (00:58:52):
They also found that 90% of the vulnerabilities they'd found could simply be fixed by putting in a comprehensive, systematic approach for patching. And they did that. They implemented that, and they gave that healthcare organization you'd know the name, a real set of security going forward. They worked with a big retail bank. Again, you'd know the name to help 'em achieve their goal of a, of, of having an infrastructure that could survive a catastrophic cybersecurity event through infrastructure automation, ongoing cost savings. They also reduce system outages by 40% tangible results, not just the intangible, what we, we think we're safe now, they made a big difference. WWT does it with a variety of security solutions, risk management, endpoint, security, network, security. They can help you with your identity and access manage. That's really important. So you know that, you know, when somebody's accessing your resources, they're doing it to the right people with the, doing it at the right time.

Leo Laporte (00:59:50):
That's super important that zero knowledge architecture now is being adopted by, by some of the biggest tech companies, WWT can help you implement it and your own company. They also will help you with your cloud security increase data protection, ensure compliance, and achieve a more consistent application of security policies. Even if you're multi-home cloud, they can do it. They've got the skill. That's the idea. See how WWT and checkpoint can protect your business assets and intellectual property with a holistic security approach, go to to get started. Let worldwide technology help you at Now more than ever, you need WWT to make that new world happen. And they're there for you. Wwt.Com/TWiT. We thank's so much for their support. Duck do go got in a stew pot of trouble when their chief executive Gabriel Weinberg tweeted Thursday, the search engine would rank websites, quote, associated with disinformation lower in search results.

Leo Laporte (01:00:57):
Not, not knock 'em off the internet, but just lower in search results. It's later come out. They maybe didn't have that much choice because they rely on Microsoft Bing for their search results. I did not know that, but now I do. Huh. And Bing said that they were gonna follow the European union's order to restrict access to RT and Sputnik. What I was surprised, I thought, yeah, of course they're gonna do that. I think I'm sure Google's doing it too, but I was surprised at the firestorm that generated a libertarian YouTube user to Warwick with half a million followers, that if you're using duck doco, I suggest you stop using it and switched to something else. Bright Bart, the right wing news organization said a duck, duck go is adopting the censorship policies of big tech and, and and social media channels devoted to conspiracy theories users vowed to switch to Yex the Russian search engine. This is why when you say, you know, we got governmental solutions so forth, we are so divided as a nation that people would get upset with a search engine for saying, yeah, we're not gonna include propaganda from a war Moning country in their search results would upset people in the us.

Larry Magid (01:02:21):

Leo Laporte (01:02:22):
Is it it's appropriate? Is it not? I mean, aren't maybe not.

Larry Magid (01:02:26):
Have you been watching Tucker Carlson lately?

Leo Laporte (01:02:28):
No. I mean, he, what's he say

Larry Magid (01:02:31):
Mainstreaming Russian propaganda. He's very clever. Yeah. You know, we were watching him the night of the invasion and he was on the air two or three before the invasion going on and on about, oh, did Putin call you a racist? Did Putin steal your job? You know, why should you hate Putin? And then the invasion happens. And I say to my wife, I said, tomorrow night, he's gonna have to backpedal somewhat. He can't possibly keep this going. And sure enough, the next night he comes to the television and he says, yeah, I don't like what Putin did, but by the way it's all because they're NATO is at Putin's doorstep. And he basically said,

Leo Laporte (01:03:04):
It's justified

Larry Magid (01:03:05):
Putin's tactics. We did it. We should, we should give him what he wants. Yeah. And, and so, I mean, going on and on, so,

Leo Laporte (01:03:12):
I mean, look, it's his right. You know, yeah, he right. I don't, I don't. I think though that it's also appropriate for big tech companies, like duck dot, go to say, we want to contr curtail the spread of Russian propaganda. I don't know. Right. Is that wrong? Should a search engine be completely agnostic?

Larry Magid (01:03:31):
You know, I, I, I will let other people speak. If you had asked me this 15 years ago, I probably would've said it was wrong, cuz I was a free speech purist. And I think over time we have learned that just like you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, just like you can't send out, you know, pictures of sexually explicit pictures of children. There are certain limits to speech. And I, I, the old me never would've would've allowed the new me to get away with saying that. But I, I think history has proven that we have to have at least a private sector, public sector, a different story. The first amendment, as you know, applies to

Leo Laporte (01:04:03):
Government, yeah. Government cannot make a law, right. A bridging speech, but that's not what this is. Private

Larry Magid (01:04:08):
Sector can do this.

Leo Laporte (01:04:10):
And all search engines make decisions all the time. Editorial decisions about what content they rank highly and not, it's not like they took it off the internet. They just low word the ranking. I don't know. It doesn't that doesn't offend me. And I was very surprised to hear how upset people were and it made me actually think, oh, maybe I, maybe I do believe that the search results should be completely agnostic. Evan, what do you think?

Evan Brown (01:04:38):
Well, I'm, I'm cautious in saying that there ought to be clear categories here for a search engine to deprioritize. Especially when you hold the principles, like what duck dot go does where it, it purports to be very neutral in, in this. I hear what you're saying. Leo search engines, certainly, you know, quote, unquote, make decisions all the time about what content is. There I'm

Leo Laporte (01:05:10):
Much, that's the nature of a search engine.

Evan Brown (01:05:12):
Right. And I'm much more satisfied when that's done Al algorithmically, right. Based on certain things like you know, basic things that happen in the, in the algorithm like, well, how much is it linked to what's its what's, what's it page? Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:05:25):
The page rank and all that. Yeah. But at the same, you, you might also deprecate sources. Google does it all the time. That's a spammy yeah. Source for instance.

Evan Brown (01:05:33):
Yeah. Yeah. But there's, there's a certain part of me that, that once there to still remain with, you know, a certain sense of agency in the end user, to be able to look at this content and evaluate its truth Vallance for example, I'm a bit upset it's way too strong of a word, but certainly disappointed to see that YouTube took RT offline. I was benefiting greatly learning about the contours of this dispute by watching RT. Right. I didn't believe most of what it was, but it helped me gain a robust, more deep understanding of, of the nature of the conflict. And now I'm not going

Leo Laporte (01:06:19):
What the, what the perspective in Russia is what the Russian people are being told. Yes. And so you think that companies, tech companies should trust it's a, it's a little paternalistic to say, oh, we don't want to show you that information cause we don't trust your ability to discriminate. So we're gonna do it for you.

Evan Brown (01:06:37):
Yes. Yes. I'm eager to hear what, what Carolina has to say about this.

Carolina Milanesi (01:06:41):
Well, well, no, I, I, I agree, I think is, is basically saying that, you know, user readers cannot make up their mind as to what is true and what isn't. Now we do also know that there are users who are you know, maybe less in tuned with how, you know, the internet works or that might be and I'm not talking about the warrior, but in general, that that might be that might need to be, you know, safeguarded from some information. But you know, you can't always make the decision for them because I, I agree, otherwise you create a bubble. Right. and I think that in the tech sector we are sometime, and, and I talk about from my experience, you know, think about how you use TWiTter, you know, where you follow people, people that tend to be people that you agree with, people that share your likes and dislike that, you know, might be similarly politically inclined or whatever the case might be. You do end up in a bubble and you don't understand what others are listening or hearing and how they make up their reasoning. And I think that to your point, Leo earlier about the state, this country is in right now, is that, is that we are not, we are not really listening to each other anymore. And, and so having both sides of the equation I think is important.

Leo Laporte (01:08:21):
I certainly wouldn't want Silicon valley to be able to say, oh look, our point of our world view, our global view is the only global view. Yeah, this is what you sh, and so that's the risk of, of letting a tech company decide with their own agenda, what we should be able to see and not, you know, you can still go to, Evan and watch this stuff there.

Evan Brown (01:08:46):
Oh, thank goodness.

Leo Laporte (01:08:47):
Yeah. So it's

Larry Magid (01:08:48):
And I,

Leo Laporte (01:08:48):
So it really was more so if I do that, you know, I could see it if I go to YouTube, it says, but, but I think that, that the point, I guess, is maybe YouTube was more paternalistic and didn't trust its audience. And maybe there's some case for that. It's funny, cuz I'm sure YouTube would fight it. If they were brought to, let's say Congress to testify about their algorithm and its tendency to make people more extreme, they might say, oh, we don't have that kind of influence, but they still pull on RT.

Evan Brown (01:09:15):
I, I would certainly be willing to stand up for YouTube and it's it's it's prerogative is the word I'll use to do this. I don't wanna say right. Cuz I think that's a bit too fundamental, but, and, and that's enshrined, you know, for example, in section two 30 where you know, these platforms can make these editorial judgements for content that is unlawful, you know, lude, lascivious or otherwise objectionable is the, the categories that are there in the statute. So I don't think there there's anything unlawful about what YouTube did. I don't think any of us are suggesting that as well, this is a much deeper a more, even deeper than what policy questions go. This is philosophical. This is you know, whatever is at that layer. These are the kinds of, of perspectives. I think we need to think about as far. And

Larry Magid (01:10:06):
I, I think it's, I think it's important to try to get outsider bubble. I mean, I actually divide my television news viewing between Fox, MSNBC and CNN, because I want to hear the different of perspectives. I wanna hear what Tucker Carlson is saying. I wanna hear what Fox and by the way, they Fox has some amazing journalists like GWE Griffin, Jennifer can't remember her last name, but she, yes, Jennifer Griffin, Pentagon Pentagon correspondent is rock solid. And she'll argue with the, with the, with, with Carlson and, and H but my point is that it's important to get out that bubble. And I do wanna the RT, I go to cause I wanna see that perspective. I go to bright and I think it, it's pretty probably obvious by now that these organizations don't reflect my world view, but it's important, I think to have a broader sense of what's going on. And one of the things that bothers me about modern media, including social media, is how people are being pushed into bubbles. They're being into, into these very narrow tribes. And I think that's detrimental to intellectual curiosity as well as democracy.

Evan Brown (01:11:08):

Leo Laporte (01:11:12):
It's it's so hard to know where to draw the line. It is very tempting to be a little paternalistic and say, well, I know the difference. I can go to and I could tell that's propaganda, but I don't think we should let everybody do that. And I, and I, and I, well, it's just, it's it's, it's a little thorny. My, you know, my I'd like you, Larry, my initial feelings in the early days of the internet certainly was, this is only beneficial for everybody to get every point of view and you could trust them to decide and to use this information to make their own decision. And yes, we may not agree, but that's the nature of the world. And this is a great benefit to everybody to have every point of view you know, during world war II, you couldn't listen to Gable's, you know, broadcasts in Germany, but you know, you could hear Tokyo rose and, you know, you could, you weren't cut off from the German point of view or the Japanese point of view during the war. But at this, at the same time, RT has a big fat pipeline right into the us. And they're very subtle by the way, as I look at it, doesn't look, it's not obvious propaganda, right? It you're right. Yeah. They're very subtle.

Carolina Milanesi (01:12:27):
But it's interesting whether that you talk about different point of views because to the point of subtle versus now we are still not necessarily even for TV stations or, you know, newspapers, always getting everybody's point of view in as much as how this story is stored, because you just need to see the difference that we are using to talk about the Ukraine and how people are fighting Russia and the, you know, the invasion and we speak very differently about other parts of the world, where is the same situation people fighting for where land right to defend themselves and their loved one, but so up not to be in a country that matters more to the, you know, peace in the world in Europe. They might not have nuclear powers that are concerned for everybody else. And, you know, they have their skin is a different color and so we treat them differently. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:13:35):
I mean this big going on in Syria for a decade.

Carolina Milanesi (01:13:38):
Absolutely. Eaman I mean, you go up, right?

Evan Brown (01:13:41):
Yeah. We, we hear a lot about Syria, I think in comparison to what happens in Africa. Like I imagine if you pulled a hundred Americans to tell you about the significance of the second Congo war, very few of those hundred would be able to tell you even one fact about that, but it's, it was an incredibly bloody conflict and, you know, we, we just don't know about it. Right. And, and there's, there's, there's that there's

Carolina Milanesi (01:14:03):
Because there's no interest, right, right. From, yeah. From an oil perspective,

Leo Laporte (01:14:06):
Ukraine is

Carolina Milanesi (01:14:07):

Leo Laporte (01:14:08):
Anything else? Ukraine is European. And so we, you know, we care about that. Yeah, that's a little shameful. I, I agree. Tiktok, TikTok, let's talk a little bit about TikTok. You may remember last year under president Trump, there was pressure to sell TikTok to an American company. Oracle was in the bidding had, was expected to win that did not happen when the Biden administration came in. You know, just, it kind of drifted off the horizon. I wasn't so much concerned about America. America's data being held in China as I was about the incredible propaganda for TikTok. Well, there is two stories this week that reflect both sides of that story. Tiktok has moved ahead in its deal with Oracle, for Oracle to store TikTok data about American users. So that bite dances, China parent can't access it. So in a way that's kind of, that deal never did die.

Leo Laporte (01:15:13):
This is because SEIUs the committee on foreign investment in the United States has continued with, you know, without abatement to talk about its concerns over data security. So Oracle will be holding Americans information in the United States, in an Oracle database. And maybe that makes you feel better, cuz China doesn't have access to your data. They still have access to whatever you do on your phone, which maybe is even more concern. My biggest concern frankly, is that TikTok could be very easily algorithmically tuned in the same subtle way that RT is to become a proper began the platform for China, the white house. This actually was a Saturday live skit last night, the white house, but it's a true story. Brought tick talk stars in to talk about the war in Ukraine, briefed them, Jennifer hockey, the the press secretary briefed influencers about the United States strategic goals in the region.

Leo Laporte (01:16:17):
No, my son was not included in that. Although he had more followers than a lot of these TikTok influencers. I'm just saying I, you were somebody recorded the call and you could listen in on it. And it was a fairly, you know, it wasn't exactly a deep inside briefing, but I think it was very much an attempt by the buying administration to get these TikTok groups, to espouse the American point of view on their channel Kalil green, 21, a creator with more than 530, 4,000 followers on TikTok said he wasn't surprised when an invitation arrived in his email inbox. This is from the Washington post. People in my generation could all our information from TikTok. He said, it's the first place we're searching up new topics and learning about things. I guess you gotta go where the kids are. I wonder if Jen, Jen Saki said hello, fellow kids.

Leo Laporte (01:17:17):
Some of the creators said it wasn't a lot of information in there. Jules Turak a gen Z content creator who does essays about digital culture said the white house decision to engage creators such as she was essential in helping to stop the spread of misinformation. Those who have an audience can ideally set the tone for how others decide to assess and amplify what they see online. I'll do the propaganda thing if you want me to I dunno, what do you think of this? This is, this is a story I would not have thought I'd be, I'd be telling, telling you about a year ago.

Carolina Milanesi (01:17:54):
Well, there has been proof that in, in Europe actually that influencers were paid to distribute negative messages around vaccination COVID vaccinations, right. So right. You know, they are, they can be used for propaganda. I'm not sure. I agree that, you know, kids go to TikTok to get all their information. I mean, there's a difference between, you know, learning how to do a dance and know making a really tasty Chito then going and figuring out the war in Ukraine. But you know, maybe that's just me and my kid. I

Leo Laporte (01:18:39):
Dunno. Lev par is 22 year old son. Aaron par is actually one of the talkers who was invited to the talk. I remember Lev pars is Ukrainian, born and businessman associated of Rudy. Giuliani helped Trump pressure Ukraine to investigate Biden and Heder Biden. He was convicted in October on campaign, fine charges. His son says, I'm not my father. I love him, but I'm not my father. He apparently is posting a lot of information about nonstop news updates, Ukraine. He is after all Ukrainian by ancestry on the night of Russia's invasion, he hosted TikTok live streams, discussing the events to over 800,000 viewers. That's a much bigger audience than CNN or MSNBC. Yeah. Every day he's posted videos breaking down news about the war every 45 minutes. Interesting. A Ukrainian born journalist who operates the TikTok channel. Good morning, bad news said he thought the overall tone of the briefing was too soft. And officials dodged hard questions. The energy of the call felt like a press briefing for kindergartners. I'm not surprised I'm not surprised, but I think it's probably smart for the white house to do this. Yes, you're great.

Evan Brown (01:19:59):
It is. It, is it too little too late? You know, James Allen, you know, who wrote you know, as a man think back in the early part of the 20th century, I mean, there, there was a passage there that says, you know, a person who wants to, you know, do well, you know, shouldn't wrestle with opportunity, but must purify the heart. You know, you, you need to come into these situations, challenging situations, having been fundamentally prepared rather than just figuring out at the last minute what to do. And so if we're sort of coaching TikTok publishers or whatever, we would call these, these content developers on TikTok, what our position is, you know, is that really going to be effective? I would suggest that that's not nearly as effective as the results one would see from a a greater focus, a greater love among our citizenry on our collective civic values.

Evan Brown (01:20:57):
Now only heaven knows really how we would agree on, on what those are, especially in this day and age, but, you know, things like a greater sense of, of, of patriotism, not nationalism, but, but patriotism, a, a more robust sense of, of our history, a a, a well fortified sense of what our position in this global conflict is based on, you know, where we come from as a nation historically in all of these things. Now I recognize it's a, it's a different challenge. And I don't want to any, anybody to be hearing what I'm not saying, where one has to espouse sort of a radical America first agenda. But the point I'm trying to make is, you know, they're not be more done beforehand, before it gets to this point of having to just educate the, the, the TikTok crowd in the IRC. There's been some discussion about, you know, the importance of, of educating our youngsters to recognize logical fallacies and, you know, to be able to think well, so, so it's, it's things like that, that you know, certainly this, this, this briefing is, is a, a good thing in principle, as long as it's, well, it's a good thing in principle. Let's tell hope that it's done well. Yeah,

Larry Magid (01:22:11):
I, I think it's a reflection of the reality that, you know, the gatekeepers are no longer the gatekeepers. I mean, I grew up at a time when we had three television networks and every city had maybe two newspapers, and there were, there was time in Newsweek and a handful of important national publications. And clearly we were at a point where one could become a major influence. So today, with, as, as Leo pointed out, perhaps more viewers in CNN without having gone through any hurdles at all, without having any senior editor, having anointed them or hired them has happened with me and early in my career, when I got my first job at the LA times, I mean, so the white house has to grapple with that. They have to come to the realization that you can just have regular press briefings with accredited report. You've got to reach out to these people who collectively may have more influence than the people who are sitting in that press room.

Leo Laporte (01:23:00):
Taylor Lawrence's, article quotes, Eller an 18 year old TikTok star with stand back 10 and a half million followers. She sees herself as a voice for young people and the growing contingent of news consumers, getting information through social media platforms. I'm here to relay the information in a more digestible manner to my followers. She said, I would consider myself a white house correspondent for gen Z. And at first I mocked that, but you know what, that's exactly what she is.

Larry Magid (01:23:29):
She has more viewer than many white health correspondent do. Yeah. Many. Yeah, yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:23:33):
Absolutely. I'm sorry, Carolyn ahead.

Carolina Milanesi (01:23:35):
Question. I, I was just gonna say, nobody's actually asking a question why this is happening, right. So we're gonna try and, and creators on social media, but we are not wondering why people are turning to other channels together news. Yeah. And they're, we are not doing anything to actually make those news channels. Cuz I, I mean, obviously I'm European. I am, I am. And, and not just European, but I'm Italian. You know, television in Italy is not one of our best things.

Carolina Milanesi (01:24:14):
Then I, I spent 18 years in the UK and, you know, love it or hate it. There is BBC everything, you know, I don't think that any channel in the world is not influence and by politics in one way or another, some is more obvious. Some are less, but the way that that news are done in Europe, really more about the news, but not the commentary. And I that's what I'm struggling in this country there, that seems like a lot. And, and I, you know, there are channels that are not quite to the extreme, but there's a lot of opinion that come with the news

Leo Laporte (01:24:49):
More and more. That's what gets ratings. Absolutely. And with, and ratings are everything in, in broadcast mainstream media. So yes, that's the strong tendency. 

Carolina Milanesi (01:25:00):
So I, I totally agree with, with Larry about training and what you've been through, but then if that gets thrown out the window, because there are other things at play like ratings, like funding, like advertising, like everything else then does your training really matter? Right. Right. If, if what you are saying is, is change and manipulated by other factors and people are turning to normal humans because they think that these people are more truthful or closer to the way that they see things. I don't know.

Larry Magid (01:25:39):
Some ways, I times I think my training is counterproductive in the sense that, you know, I, I haven't learned click BA I, I haven't learned how to sense. I've just learned how to tell things the way I think they are.

Leo Laporte (01:25:51):
We have to write an article for Larry

Larry Magid (01:25:53):

Leo Laporte (01:25:54):
10 things you need to know before you start writing a blog post, you need a list. Number six will blow you away and we'll blow you away. You won't believe number seven.

Larry Magid (01:26:03):
I'll have to, I'll read that

Leo Laporte (01:26:05):
Things. Larry Magidgot never knew about writing a blog post. Exactly. No, you're right. You're ill trained for this stuff. I have to say, I would say most of the young people, I know get their news and information, not from TikTok, which is really short form, but from YouTube, but there's a lot of very good. Your kid's the same lot of really strong content on YouTube. And if you follow, if you know the right person to follow, not pew pie maybe even not Mr. Beast, but, but if you've, there are some really quality history and news science channels on YouTube. And I think what I of observe is people find the one that they really, and they're devoted. They very much pay attention to that. Watch it much more than they would watch television. For sure.

Evan Brown (01:26:51):
And there there's a handful of, of, you know, publishers on YouTube that, that I really enjoy because of their depth of, of content. And, and what, what really draws me to them is that I feel like I'm being told the truth. I mean, and, and maybe I'm belaboring the obvious in a way that's not really helpful here, but, but I suspect that that's something that is attractive to, to, to younger folks who are, you know, going to TikTok to find their it's

Leo Laporte (01:27:18):
Information. It's not corporate media, it's not corporate media.

Evan Brown (01:27:21):
It's that it's just the veneer or it's, it's the REM removal of the veneer of, of that corporate media. And it's really, and, and we are enabled by these technologies and these means of communication to have that now more than ever. I mean, just, it's so amazing to think about how different this is than how even, you know, the, the, the war in Afghanistan, war in Iraq, the first Gulf war going all the way back, Vietnam, world war II, Korea you know, I mean, it's amazing how much more information there is in real time. It comes in in high resolution. I mean, my favorite source of information, and this is just to, to, to I'm speaking in the extreme to demonstrate the point here, the, the information I trust the most is the guy that I know just from being following him on Instagram over the years, because we both like fountain, he's a lawyer in Nepro and he's the one that's, you know, just Southeast of, of ke of Kiev. You know, that's where I want to get information. I'm certainly gonna trust that more. Even then the most embedded journalist who's going to speak to me in a, in the Larry Magid kind of way of, of not so sensationalizing

Leo Laporte (01:28:26):
And yet there isn't and Larry and I both come from that, you know, the older generation that, that tradition of journalistic integrity. There's not that understanding of the rules of the road and all of that stuff, or even just the who, what, where, when, why I think that's on, on one hand, it just, as you say, Evan, that is the Ben, the beauty of it. It's not that I Polish stuff, but I also think you don't necessarily know as you watch somebody on YouTube, if they have an ax to grind, if they have an interest in this and disclosure is, is nonexistent. Right. I don't know. Yeah. I I'm very torn. I don't wanna be the old guy who says, oh, you gotta do it. Clearly. The, the forms of journalism are, are pretty much dead. And YouTube is the perfect example of this. And, and it's also clear that anybody under 25 is getting most of their journalism from YouTube, I would think. Yeah. Yeah. Which is not a bad thing necessarily. It means it can, anybody who has something compelling to say and, and knows how to present it has a voice, but it's also very easy to get, get seen sold down the river on that stuff too. I,

Larry Magid (01:29:42):
That, again, again, not to beat a beat, a dead in very old horse, but I mean, I grew up at a time when we had 12 TV channels, dial little, we had 12 options on it, I think went from channel two to channel 13. Right.

Leo Laporte (01:29:54):
And most of them were empty. Yes.

Larry Magid (01:29:56):
Yeah. Most of them were it. I was in LA, so I had a

Leo Laporte (01:29:59):
Lot of stations. Oh, okay.

Larry Magid (01:30:00):
But it was really easy. So I, when you're, when you're talking about this, I'm thinking to myself, I'd like to know who these great YouTube broadcasters are

Leo Laporte (01:30:07):
Hard to find them. That's

Larry Magid (01:30:08):
Right. I'm missing out on, on some, I guess. That's

Leo Laporte (01:30:11):
But you also, they don't have any hierarchy. So the other thing that happened is newspapers television. There was a hierarchy of editorial people. I mean, not always, by the way, a good thing, cuz at the top of the hierarchy, we was the guy who owned the transmitter, an old white guy. But there, there was some, there were some checks and balances but at the same time, 12 channels is not enough to express the broad variety of, of things in the world. And 

Larry Magid (01:30:36):
I'm not, I'm not urge, I'm not saying I wanna go back to those days, but I'm saying I would like personally to know who these great YouTube broadcasters are, how can, how can people find, you know, cause there's so much crap. If you just go randomly looking on YouTube, you're gonna go down all sorts of rabbit holes. So how can people out in the audience who are listening to us right now find how

Leo Laporte (01:30:56):
Do you

Larry Magid (01:30:56):
Vet it collection of, of people who they should be following. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:31:00):
Yeah. What is your child, do Carolina, do they have some I metric that they use or they just watch whatever?

Carolina Milanesi (01:31:09):
Well, I don't know that they have a metric as such, but obviously finding somebody that they can relate to either because of interest or because of who they are is absolutely critical. And I think that, you know, we going back to their diversity topic that you know, we discussed earlier about the ability of, of seeing somebody that looks like you, that you might think has gone through what you're going through or might see the, you know, what is happening in a similar way that you do because of the experience, not you, you think alike, but because you had similar experiences. So I know that that matters a lot to them. I also know that both dad and I keep on telling them to check their sources. Yeah. you know, we are not, my husband would like me to police more than I do. I think I'm, you know, even if I'm in tech, I, I would kind of be defeated at doing that cuz they are way ahead of me. And that is sad for somebody who covers tech to, to admit that they're

Leo Laporte (01:32:18):
Gonna just yeah, mom, right? Yeah.

Carolina Milanesi (01:32:21):
Whatever you say. And, and so it it's just, you know, like Larry was saying earlier and, and what he's doing with his work is giving them the tool to be the smart as they can. Right. In terms of being able to check their sources to go and, and fact chat with people and what they're saying and not just taking it in. And that's true with everything. I mean, that is true as well. When you read textbook that, you know, that are used in school to know who wrote that book, what story are you being told? Because we know that is, is not all the, the different opinions and different aspects of, of somebody and, you know, a, a character or, or a, a fact in history that you are telling because is whoever you know, is the point of view of whoever wrote that book. And then the teacher who tells you,

Larry Magid (01:33:22):
It it's even true with tech reviews. I mean, there was a time when there was Leo, John Devor, Walt Moberg myself, and about a dozen other people who were writing about technology. And, you know, you could love us or hate us agree or disagree, but you kind of knew who we were and who we worked for and who was paying us now, there are thousands and thousands of tech out there that are recommending products day in and day out. And I have no idea who these people are and who's paying them and what, they're, what they're, why they're writing about what they're writing. And, and so, you know, even something as silly as though what smartwatch to buy, it's hard to figure out a credible source. I mean, there are credible sources, but it's hard to know if what you happen to watching is credible.

Carolina Milanesi (01:34:03):
Well, it's interesting cuz in the creator world, I think especially YouTube the, the people that do great work go to all, you know, kind of extend to really explain, you know, the posts that are sponsored, the posts that are not. And you know, I, I did an interview at the end of last year with I Justine and her sister. And I, you know, I looked at, I've been following, I Justine bless her Justine for a long time and I like everything about them. And I wrote the story and the spirit of women history month. And because there's a story of sisters working together and lifting each other up and also a story of a younger generation compared to mine where they didn't think about themselves as women in tech or women as a creator in the YouTube world.

Carolina Milanesi (01:35:01):
And they do great work. And we were talking about exactly what you're talking about, Larry, about who pays you, you know, how can you be as TransParenting as possible with the content that you put out there. So, oh no. And it, it was fascinating because she was saying that now, when she's actually asked to showcase a product, she would never call that a review because it's not right, because they are paid to showcase a product versus she's taking a product and she's reviewing all that said, I always remember writing I was still at garner and I wrote a review of an iPhone and a customer asked who paid for that iPhone. And I said, man, like, you know, if I was so cheap that, you know, whatever, $800 or whatever would a favorite review, why would I be, what am I doing at Gartner? You know, that, and, and there are people like that, that just because of a business model might question your ethics. And, and I also think that that's not necessarily the, the right way to go compared to okay. Because you, you know, write for AP, you don't have a point of view or you're not, you know, we, especially in tech, we are human. We, we are, you know, we, we like some brands better than others and, and, and all of that. And I think as long as you're transparent more power to you.

Leo Laporte (01:36:38):
Yeah. We threw out though the notion that any of these people in the good old days were independent or, you know, had journalistic ethics. I think we've learned that everybody has a point of view. And now it's just a free for all. I mean, you see YouTubers who have investments in the, not merely given my, but have investments in the companies they're covering it's and the FTC has rules by the way, disclosure, even

Carolina Milanesi (01:37:07):
To take products you're supposed to

Leo Laporte (01:37:09):
Disclose. Yeah. If they do the product don't know, I think they probably that's well reserved more in the, the breach breach than it is in the reality. But there are supposedly rules now, CNN, as we're gonna start streaming CNN plus starts streaming in a couple of weeks, $6 a month. Although if you sign up early, you can get it for less. That's interesting. Isn't it? I mean, this is the old school journalists saying let, let us in. I don't does streaming change the equation? I think it's still CNN.

Carolina Milanesi (01:37:44):
I, I think so. Yeah. I, I think it's not the medium, it's the quality of the content and who's gonna show up just because you serve it to me in a different way.

Leo Laporte (01:37:53):
Maybe this is their chance just to free the chains that bind them to cable companies, which

Larry Magid (01:37:59):
Is no, I was gonna thinking

Leo Laporte (01:38:00):
That. Yeah, not a very good

Larry Magid (01:38:01):
Deal. I, I, that's a good point. I wonder if you subscribe, if you'll also still get the re CNN in with, you know, independent of cable in addition to the CNN plus content, right. I don't know if I wanna hear Anderson Cooper talk about parenting, which is what this new show is gonna be about. But right now I'm paying Comcast a lot of money to hear the likes of Anderson Cooper, right.

Leo Laporte (01:38:21):
And others. And in fact that's the other thing is a lot of these people, including many of my peers are moving to YouTube saying, oh, well, we're just gonna do the YouTube thing. Yeah. And

Larry Magid (01:38:31):
And then it basically just another, it just,

Leo Laporte (01:38:33):
Just another delivery

Larry Magid (01:38:34):
Meeting, Google and stay of Comcast.

Leo Laporte (01:38:35):
It's not the same. Yeah. Yeah. I,

Evan Brown (01:38:37):
Is it, go ahead, Leah.

Leo Laporte (01:38:39):
Well, so go ahead. What do you think it's a little different because you're not being paid by a, a company to do it

Evan Brown (01:38:46):
Well, here's how I'd answer that question and, and sort of ask if you think that I'm thinking about this appropriately, I can't help, but go back. Maybe I think it, maybe 2004, 2005, 2006, Chris Anderson's book the long tail. Yes. I think that was more of an economic thesis where, you know, you've got, you've got the main providers, the big networks. The fact that always comes to my mind is like, you know, back in the fifties on any given night, whichever night I love Lucy was on like a disproportionate amount or a huge proportion of the amount of is watch. And now yeah, we're all sliced up and watching stuff. And so does it, is it valid to think of, you know, Chris Anderson's model as, as, as rather prescient on how it's come, it, a lot of this has come to pass and there are perhaps issues that weren't after this show, I'm gonna go pull that off of the shelf and thumb through it and, and, and revisit it.

Evan Brown (01:39:37):
You know, it, it, it's interesting to see and sort of what made me think of this is a big player, like CNN, an incumbent. I don't know if that's the right clinical term or whatever for all of this, but you know, it, one of those big you know, at the head of the long tail now trying to get into sort of the, the, the space swear, the, the, the streamers and, and everybody else is, is occupying the, the, the longer portion of the tail. I would just, I'm just sort of setting that out there as a paradigm, wondering how valid that is, how helpful it is for us to categorize categorize.

Leo Laporte (01:40:11):
Chris book comes from every, you know, that, that utopian vision of the internet we all had some years ago. And that is, is certainly accurate that the long tail brings you a much broader variety of content. That's what YouTube is. I've lived in the long tail for the last 15 years and probably for my whole career, actually. And that's where you get a much broader variety of content, but I don't have the same techno utopian point of view that it's, that it's all gonna be flowers and daisies from now on, because everybody gets a voice that hasn't really turned out to be accurate, either.

Evan Brown (01:40:43):
It goes back to the issues we were talking about earlier. Exactly who gets the voice, who, who has the right to silence.

Leo Laporte (01:40:48):
Everybody should have a voice. And that's the beauty of the long tail. Everybody can have a voice, but I don't know. I don't, I don't know if it's worked out. So I think there's look it's, this is the way it is. So whether we like it or not, the future of media is much more like YouTube than is like CNN. And and we're gonna have to live with that. And I don't think any attempt to say, oh, you people are too stupid to watch all these videos. We really have to watch what we tell you to watch. I don't think that's gonna work.

Larry Magid (01:41:20):
You know, it's not gonna work, but on the other hand, the New York times, the Washington post, they're doing pretty well right now. And one of the reasons is I think that millions of people trust the editors who make the decisions yeah. As to what they cover you. And I think there is still role

Leo Laporte (01:41:35):
Don't, they'll go away. Smart

Larry Magid (01:41:36):

Leo Laporte (01:41:36):
Yeah. I don't think they'll go away. I think there's a place for them. It's not gonna eliminate the New York times, but it has eliminated a lot of local newspapers,

Larry Magid (01:41:42):
Local papers they're in trouble. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:41:44):
Yeah. The New York times success, it is thought by many comes with the fact that they have such a variety of things that it's, it's a multiple subs. You might like the cooking. You might like the crosswords. It's not just about news. And that's how the New York times has managed to make it in in a very difficult world for journalism. I don't know. I agree with you. I mean, that's why I buy the New York times and the Washington post and a bunch of other news sources that I trust. I pay the subscription for them. I, including something like the information and upstart, like the information, because I know that that's gonna be a good source of information, but I, but again, I think if you're under 25, you're not paying, you know, a hundred bucks a year to get the New York times.

Carolina Milanesi (01:42:27):
Right. And, and that's the other problem, right. Is what can you afford versus what is available to you? And it's not a question just should you have to pay for better information, reliable information. And I, I'm not, you know, questioning and saying that, you know, all newspapers should be free, but, you know, I think it's an interesting question. And you've seen model like the guardian in the UK, right. That really struggle to stay independent. And, and they had to ask for, you know, funding from from the the readers and to, to stay afloat.

Larry Magid (01:43:11):
It's a really important question. I mean, I would hate to think that only rich people can afford good information. That would be a horrible exactly.

Carolina Milanesi (01:43:18):

Leo Laporte (01:43:18):
That would be very big. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Larry Magid (01:43:21):
There's there's, if I add

Leo Laporte (01:43:22):
Up, you know, who really dominates, you know, who dominates honestly, and probably will continue to dominate, I'm pulling out my Samsung phone. And if you slide it to the right, there's a list of stories that Google picks. That's probably the most important front page in, in the, in America is the, whatever that news page is on your smartphone. That's cuz who has time to go watch 20 videos and hear a bunch of different points of view. You scan it, it's a scanner, it's a scanning thing. And the people who choose it are really the aggregators like Google. Yeah. I think that's really where power lies at this point.

Larry Magid (01:44:01):
It's funny. Cause I got a, a windows PC, you know, I, and I just left the defaults. I went into

Leo Laporte (01:44:06):
Microsoft news is terrible

Larry Magid (01:44:07):
And I kept Microsoft news. It's like, it's like click bait.

Leo Laporte (01:44:10):
It's all click BA.

Larry Magid (01:44:12):
Yeah. And it goes by really quickly. And inevitably I'll see a story I'm interested in by the time I wanna click on it, it's gone. And then I have to go watch it again.

Leo Laporte (01:44:18):
Paul Boones that constantly Paul throw out on our windows weekly show the that's, you know, apple news isn't much better. These platforms have a huge responsibility. These aggregators are the front page of these internet now. And they have a huge responsibility and they ought to take it more seriously. It now this is on a Google phone, most Android phones, you know, you have that kind of newsy page, usually produced by Google in this case is by Google. Sometimes is by Samsung. They don't have something like that on the iPhone. So I don't know what people do on the iPhone. Maybe it's apple news. Do they have, do you have a news iPhone users? Do you have a news button on your front page that you always go to? What, how do you do that on the iPhone?

Carolina Milanesi (01:45:00):
I don't, I mean, TWiTter is my morning TWiTter shop

Leo Laporte (01:45:04):
News TWiTter. There you go. Twitter, to be honest. Yeah. That for a lot of tech journalists tech people, TWiTter is the front page. Yeah. Huge responsibility actually. That's why TWiTter blue has that top article section now.

Carolina Milanesi (01:45:19):
Yeah. Which

Evan Brown (01:45:19):
Is why I'm suggesting we, we, I'm not suggesting we talk about this cuz it's going, going the thing. But I, I find it interesting. Leo, you, you talk about this responsibility and Carolina, you, you were talking about respons before as if it's a, you know, a foregone conclusion that these platforms have a responsibility. I think it's, it's edifying for us to all for at, at the appropriate time to consider, you know, what is the origin and the nature of that responsibility and you know, on, on, on, on what standards is the quality of the fulfillment of that responsibility judged. Yeah. I don't think the answers are easy.

Leo Laporte (01:45:58):
They carry more, these guys carry more weight than the York times editorial board ever. Did they are, if you think of choosing the front page, what stories if you

Larry Magid (01:46:07):
Think about broadcast, I mean back back to Evan's question, I mean, in broadcast, an FCC license meant that you had, did present the news, right? If you were CBS, ABC, NBC, you are obligated by government being for that free airwaves to do, to be responsible. And that's what would generat that's what generated the Walter Croke of the world. But Google, it doesn't have to do that. Facebook, apple doesn't have there's, there's nobody telling them what they have to do. It's it's up.

Evan Brown (01:46:33):
In fact there are laws, there are, and there are laws protecting them. I'm going back to section two 30, I'm a lawyer I'm doing everything. Looks like a hammer or the thing looks like a nail cause I'm a hammer. You know, there are laws that, that actually protect the ability to be quite selective in that some in, in, in a certain sense, very different than the nature of, of the broadcast rules of,

Larry Magid (01:46:54):
Of, well, the traditional broadcast has changed when news became a profit center, you know, at some point cause what I'm talking about is going back into the sixties and seventies, but you're, you

Leo Laporte (01:47:05):
Should mention by the way, as long as we're talking about journalism that Brent Reno, who was a yeah. A filmmaker and journalist Neman award winner was shot by Russian troops at a checkpoint in Ukraine today and died, died. So there are still people who care a lot about journalism, put their life on the line to bring us information and news that we can act as citizens of the world. So we can act responsibly. And those people are putting their lives on the line. They're really, really risking everything. So it it's important. This stuff is very, very important and we do need this information to be to be able to operate in the world. It's not just it's not just entertainment. Unfortunately it looks a lot like entertainment if you watch television news, but it isn't this information is stuff we need so that we can be, be better citizens.

Larry Magid (01:48:06):
And, and think about the diet that the Russians are getting. What they're getting right now is if they're just watching television is state owned media and how we don't wanna go down that path. I mean, that's right. How much we honor these independent journalists.

Leo Laporte (01:48:18):
That's right. Yeah. Let's take a little break sorry to be the bear of those sad tidings, but you know, that it underscores how important this job is and and it, and it's, maybe it shouldn't be left in the hands of Google or apple or Microsoft or TWiTter, but I don't, but I don't know what other, another way to do this. I mean, I clearly, it wasn't much better to say, oh, the New York times is the journal of record. They're the only people who matter that wasn't it either on, on balanced, you, you think we're better off the way it is now with a thousand different sources and it's up to the individual to kind of sift through them and make some sense of it. Carolina, are we better off with the new situation? The way it is today?

Carolina Milanesi (01:49:06):
You are asking me which kind of death I wanna die.

Carolina Milanesi (01:49:10):
To be honest,

Leo Laporte (01:49:11):
It's not perfect either way, I guess. Yeah,

Carolina Milanesi (01:49:13):
No, it, it isn't really, but I, I really strongly believe that one voice it is not the way.

Leo Laporte (01:49:21):
Yeah. I think we are better off now. I really do. You, do you agree, Larry?

Larry Magid (01:49:29):
I, I would, if, if we could get a diet of accurate information, I think we're better off by having multiple opinions and multiple angles and multiple views, but I'm, I'm very upset about the fact that some people are getting false information or being lied to. And yeah, that's, what's really bothering me and that's always been true, but it, they were marginalized and now they're getting it in millions and millions of people are getting that. So I I'm, I'm not gonna give it a, I, you know, I don't think it's an a or B. I mean, I don't wanna go back to the old days, but I wanna go to a point where people are getting accurate information, whatever that takes

Leo Laporte (01:50:05):
Well, and I think what Carolina and her husband are doing with her kid is, is the right thing to do, which is say, consider the source, consider the source, try to find other sources, try to really vet it. Don't, you know, the good news is I think their generation, your, your kid's generation doesn't have that sense that my generation had it as well. It was in the times it must be true at least, you know, which it wasn't, you know, it was just wasn't wasn't always true. Yeah. So maybe there's something to be said for that. Evan, you think we're better off with the news environment we have today?

Evan Brown (01:50:38):
I don't have any business answering that question with all the skilled journalists and in this conversation, but what I would say speaking from my domain of thought is I, I love the principles of that are, that are embodied in the first amendment. And, you know, the challenge is making sure that those are done well, you know, free speech, the freedom of the press, the free establishment clause, when it comes to how people express their spiritual lives, the right to cohesively assemble. I mean, that is the gasoline that powers the engine of democracy. And I, I I don't know if I made that. I I'm sure other people have said that. I don't, I'm not trying to be more dramatic about it than, than, than it's necessary. But I mean, without those principles we don't have much of a hope for, for peace and prosperity and all those things, clearly the challenges, just having it, having it done well,

Leo Laporte (01:51:35):
I agree with you have faith in the principles and act as best you can in that light. And yes, there will be problems. There is no perfect solution, but if your leaf is in the free flow of information, the first amendment I think that's gonna get us a lot farther than anything else is. So maybe that's why I like the situation as it is today. Yes. There's problems. But at least if you wanna know something you can find out. Yeah. And if you have something to say, you can say it Larry, you and I grew up in an era where you had to go bang on doors and, and get somebody to let you say it

Larry Magid (01:52:17):

Leo Laporte (01:52:18):
Get permission. Right? Yeah. I remember trying to get my first job in radio and just going, you know, pounding the pavement for months, but now you just do a podcast or start a blog.

Larry Magid (01:52:29):
I remember when I, when I F started my, my started my website, which obviously doesn't have gazillions of viewers. I remember saying to somebody for the first time in my life, I'm a publisher. I'm not just the writer. I'm a publisher. Yes. I own the printing press.

Leo Laporte (01:52:40):
I think, long run. That's the right way. It that's the way it should be in the long run. Yeah. let's take a little break. Our show today brought to you by better help. We, there wouldn't be a better time for better help. Better help is online therapy that helps you take care of your most important relationship. The one you have with yourself better help. You deserve to be happy. You know maybe you're one of those people will drop anything to go help. Somebody you care about. We go out of our way to treat other people. Well, you know, you try to be a nice person, but are you doing the same for you? That's okay. It's okay to do that. Don't feel bad about that. Whether it's hitting the gym or just you in time for a massage or even trying psychotherapy, you're your greatest asset.

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Leo Laporte (01:56:10):
Ah, all right. Let's let's move on. Maybe if I can find something a little more fun. No, no. Although I have to say I'm very interested with am. Amazon's doing clubhouse was all the, all the rage. Remember a couple of months ago, maybe a year ago. Yeah. And this kind of faded Amazon has decided to do a clubhouse competitor, but I think they're gonna do it better. They call it amp. It is now opening up, you still have to get an invite, but the idea is you can play music. They have AC they have deals with all the record labels. You have tens of millions of licensed songs. So you could be a DJ. If you want, you could take phone calls if you want. And it all works through an app iOS right now, only in the us, but they plan to expand it to Android and the rest of the world. You can download a for in the app store, sign up to get on the wait list. I think this is very interesting, you know, I'm, I'm sort of focused on this because I, this is the space I work in and I look at, Spotify's trying to own this space and, and apple and and Facebook. And now here's Amazon. They have a very interesting play on this on, I wonder

Carolina Milanesi (01:57:25):
Why they didn't call it a radio, cuz it comes.

Leo Laporte (01:57:27):
It is isn't it like radio it's radio on the internet.

Larry Magid (01:57:31):
Amazing concept.

Leo Laporte (01:57:32):
What's funny is the rules, which seem complicated are exactly the same rules you have on the radio. So they obviously have the same kind of licensing deals with the record labels. You could play two songs from the same album or three songs in the same artist and any three hour know you can't repeat songs in that timeframe. These are, I just went through these rules and broadcasts and we have to do these glasses every, every year to make sure we're adhering to the rules. And that's exactly the same deal that the record labels have the, the broadcasters. So it is really kind of like radio radio. You can't focus on taking song requests. You can't play any songs from outside the library unless you have the right to do so. It's audio. I, I feel like this is a, this is gonna be a very strong contender and a lot more interesting frankly than clubhouse.

Larry Magid (01:58:21):
You know, I grew up at time when DJs were really important, right? And every, every majors city had its DJ and just about every teenager was enamored with that DJ. And if we could get back to that point, that would be kind of exciting. And you know, why not do it on the app? I, I think it's a great idea.

Leo Laporte (01:58:38):

Larry Magid (01:58:39):
I'd love to see a resurgence of great DJ and I, and I don't mean DJ's like in the concert. I mean, people actually talk and keep

Leo Laporte (01:58:46):
It put together. Segues, put together lists of songs that relate get the news, get some news in there.

Larry Magid (01:58:55):
Hey, you and I could get a job if the, do the five minute news on some of these radios

Leo Laporte (01:58:59):
We don't need get, see Larry is still in the old school way of thinking. You don't need a job anymore. You just do

Larry Magid (01:59:04):
This. That's true.

Leo Laporte (01:59:05):
That's true. You don't need a boss. You

Larry Magid (01:59:07):
Don't even need money anymore.

Leo Laporte (01:59:08):
I don't need even need money anymore. Just need a phone. It's pretty. I mean, I think it's a, I think in the long run, this is all very good. You know that anybody who wants to do this cam, my son has become a to star. He doesn't it's. I like it cuz he doesn't use the LePort name. So it's not, you know, he's not playing on.

Larry Magid (01:59:26):
You're proud, but at a distance,

Leo Laporte (01:59:29):
No, I just don't he's making it on his own. He's salt. Hank, you go to salt, and he does these TikTok cooking videos. He sells salt. By the way, I'll give him a little plug. The new salts are just added Chi chewy, truffle. Garlic's my favorite. And they just got a whole bunch of more in stock. So if you're in the mood for salt, but this is a perfect example. Here's a, this kid grew up. He's 27. Now he grew up watching YouTube cooking videos said, I that's what I want to do. I said, because I'm an old guy, son get a real job, right. Listen to me. And Larry Magid get a real job son. And he said, no, I wanna do these cooking videos. And he started doing 'em on TikTok and now he's got almost 2 million follow followers on TikTok and he's, he's got a, he's got a sponsor. Who's you know, a clothing sponsor. Who's I think pretty much guaranteeing him as salary for the next year. And it's, it's kind of amazing.

Larry Magid (02:00:27):
Okay. Leo, I demand equal time. My son will Yes. Also also balk and bump, which is the name he, he plays under. I told him to get his master's degree so he could teach music. And he said, dad, I wanna go out and perform. And of course that was a crazy idea. Well, two super later a successful concert career. Wait

Leo Laporte (02:00:46):
A minute. He's got a SU he's he's been on a super bowl. Commercial,

Larry Magid (02:00:49):
Two of them, he, he, music has been licensed by Porsche for their electric car commercial than a row. I mean, he's always on tour

Leo Laporte (02:00:57):
Also not using the oh yeah. He's using the mag name. Well,

Larry Magid (02:01:00):
He used the mag, but he actually performs a lot under the name ball, which I also thought was a crazy idea. Why would you create another brand?

Leo Laporte (02:01:07):
Oh, I thought Sal Hank was insane. Yeah.

Larry Magid (02:01:09):
You know, and I, I, I argued with him, but this, I was on a plane from Frankfurt to Paris. And I was telling this guy from LA about my son, cuz he performed, he said, oh and he never heard of him. And then I said, oh yeah, he plays into the balk and bump. He says, you're kidding. Your son is balk and bump.

Leo Laporte (02:01:25):
I get that too. Isn't that cool? Maybe?

Larry Magid (02:01:26):
Cause it wasn't my last name. The professor.

Leo Laporte (02:01:28):
Yeah. Isn't

Larry Magid (02:01:28):
That cool?

Leo Laporte (02:01:29):
I dunno. So he plays the trumpet.

Larry Magid (02:01:31):
Yep. He does. And he's also a DJ and you know,

Leo Laporte (02:01:35):
And his world it's world music. He's obviously influenced by world music.

Larry Magid (02:01:38):
Yeah. He's he studied. Ethnomusicology and he does a lot of world music. He, he started out in Western Africa, but now he's going, doing a lot around the BAS and you know, the only problem is I can't even get him to perform at my party cause he's too busy. I don't know if I can afford

Leo Laporte (02:01:53):
Him. He'll be performing at the nectar lounge in Seattle, Washington on Friday Eugene or Oregon at the big dirty Saturday following Friday, Santa Barbara at the lucidity festival, always playing the Fox

Larry Magid (02:02:06):
Fox on Saturday.

Leo Laporte (02:02:07):
That's a huge one. Yep. That's a wow. Look at this guy.

Larry Magid (02:02:11):
Does he have a Midwest tour coming up? He just, he did Chicago recently. Yeah. He's always doing,

Leo Laporte (02:02:16):
You know, what's hysterical is if you said to a kid 10 years ago, you should play the trumpet. That's gonna be the next big thing.

Larry Magid (02:02:24):

Leo Laporte (02:02:25):
He would've laughed, but that's what I like about our kids. And Carol is too they're themselves and, and that's I think a little bit different. I think you don't have the, you know the days of all you, you go to college, you get agree. You get recruited by DuPont, you work there 50 years. You get the goal. Watch you're retired. Those days are long, gone long gone. Thank goodness.

Carolina Milanesi (02:02:48):
Don't say that. Cuz we are still convincing them that they should go to college, but we might,

Leo Laporte (02:02:53):
Are they, are they they're in high school now? Or are they college age or

Carolina Milanesi (02:02:57):
They're 14. So they

Leo Laporte (02:03:00):

Carolina Milanesi (02:03:00):
To high school. No. I, I'm hoping to be honest with you, by the time they out of a high school, that college will not matter in the same way as it has in the past. Right. So that you've seen in tech people understanding that maybe they need to use other criteria to choose. Who's a good candidate and who isn't. Right. And, and looking more at skills and ability versus what you get out of a, of a test score.

Leo Laporte (02:03:29):
I think it's good to go to college if you don't get in crushing debt as a result.

Carolina Milanesi (02:03:35):
A absolutely that's exactly it. Right? Yeah. And, and it's not just certain colleges that open or, but is really

Leo Laporte (02:03:42):
You it's opening your mind more than opening the doors. It's really learning about the world around you. And,

Larry Magid (02:03:47):
And it's not just what you learn. I mean, a lot of my son collaborators are people he met in college and that's how he got his start in professional music was by collaborating with, with fellow students and faculty and others. And when I think back to, to my day at Berkeley, you know, gazillion years ago, it wasn't what I learned, but who I hung out with that had such a huge impact on my

Leo Laporte (02:04:07):
Life. I think that's true. Yeah. Yeah. True. It's a social experience. So we're all, we're all in favor of going to college. Don't think we're not, especially

Larry Magid (02:04:16):
For Carolina kids

Carolina Milanesi (02:04:18):
Go to college,

Leo Laporte (02:04:19):
Although it's funny,

Carolina Milanesi (02:04:20):
I will call you up and you'll help me with that. I'm

Leo Laporte (02:04:23):
Watching the, the dropout, which is the Elizabeth Holmes Theno story, great show. She drops outta Stanford sophomore year because she's gonna make this thing that will never work. And they said, what are you dropping outta college parents? Probably. What are you dropping outta college? She said, bill gates dropped outta college. Steve jobs dropped outta college. Larry Ellison dropped outta college. Leo Laport dropped. No, she did not say that, but she could have probably doesn't matter as much as it used to. But on the other hand, I think that's from the outside world, but from the inside the stuff, few, the experiences you have, the things you learn and you'll never be a lawyer like Evan, if you don't go to college, right? You gotta go to college for that. That's right. Biden signs, an executive order that the crypto community is saying is very good for crypto he's.

Leo Laporte (02:05:16):
He's saying government agencies need to kind of pay attention to this. It emphasizes the government's commitment to ensuring that virtual assets are developed responsibly and ensuring responsible development of digital assets. It's even in the title and talks about developing a digital dollar, which is kind of interesting. The, I think the crypto community has come is both happy and upset about this. On the one hand, a lot of people in the crypto community say, no, go, the whole point of this is no government involvement. On the other hand, I think there's so much uncertainties that taxable. Is it an asset? Is it security that they just want some feedback from government about what it is. And I think the notion of a digital dollar is intriguing to some, not, not probably the Bitcoin bros, but intriguing to some,

Larry Magid (02:06:15):
Is it PayPal? What digital dollar. I mean, what is a digital

Leo Laporte (02:06:19):
Call? Well, your MasterCard is a digital title.

Larry Magid (02:06:21):
Yeah. MasterCard.

Leo Laporte (02:06:22):
I mean when's, you know, honestly these days is rare that we handle currency, right?

Carolina Milanesi (02:06:28):
Apple cash.

Leo Laporte (02:06:29):
Yeah. That's digital.

Larry Magid (02:06:31):
I write maybe two checks a year at that. If, if that I never write checks anymore.

Leo Laporte (02:06:36):

Carolina Milanesi (02:06:36):
I found out in Georgia, a lot of people write checks still and want checks really? You gonna, oh yes. Interesting. The whole house experience has been interesting. And the amount of fees actually that you are charge, if you are using digital payments and it's not just Amex it's any credit has a fee associated with it. It is quite fascinating, but you know, all that said, I also got an email on, I think it was Friday or, or yesterday from rooms to go, who now will accept crypto payments. And I was like, that's what I wanted to do in life. Go and buy new sofa and use crypto

Leo Laporte (02:07:20):
Use and use a cryptocurrency that you don't know what it's worth tomorrow could go up, could go down. It's risky.

Carolina Milanesi (02:07:27):
But I have my sofa.

Leo Laporte (02:07:28):
Yeah. Did you actually buy a sofa using crypto? No, no.

Larry Magid (02:07:34):
For a little while, but now you have the option. He took that

Leo Laporte (02:07:36):
Away. Yeah. Tesla decided not to do that. You know, it's really, we're we're, you know, this, what this show is all about is the brave new world that we're living in. It is a it's remarkable Moderna which developed of course, one of the two most popular RNA vaccines against C has said, RNA is the future messenger RNA. And we're gonna develop RNA vaccines for 15 of the world's worst diseases they're already working on HIV. In fact, I think they're already in trials on an HIV vaccine. Wow. They also want to develop vaccines against, I hope I'm not pronouncing this wrong Chiang GU I'm not familiar with that. Dengue. I know Ebola malaria AVAC a malaria vaccine would be huge.

Larry Magid (02:08:26):

Leo Laporte (02:08:28):
Mid east respiratory syndrome. And this is really a technology story because RNA vaccines were developed. I mean, they've been working on 'em for more than of the decade scientists have, but the vaccine for COVID was developed after sequencing the COVID gene in a weekend and then developing a vaccine computationally from it. Testing is what took a long time almost a year. So the technology though is, is now, you know, much better understood scientists at the university of Pennsylvania were able to create RNA that could get past the cells, defenses without triggering an immune response, but still recognized by the ribosome. In the case of COVID vaccines, the modified RNA was programmed to get the ribosome, to make the spike protein. And then your immune system was awakened and trained and responded. So it's a very, it's a, it's kind of a Trojan horse delivery vehicle to get past the sales defenses and then say, Hey, you ought know, here it comes and you better be prepared. It's also has another benefit on like many vaccines. It's easy to scale in production at a relatively low cost doesn't require chicken, eggs, things like that.

Evan Brown (02:09:46):
I mean, legally we certainly can't look past the the polarizing nature of, of vaccination. So not only is this a technology story, but it's sort of an information, you know, and misinformation story,

Leo Laporte (02:09:59):
Well, I'm sure people are hearing this and you know, and I know some people were hearing this going, oh no, bill gates is not putting a needle in my arm. Yeah. Mike modern is building a half billion dollar facility for manufacturing, NRA and vaccines in Kenya so that it can supply up to half a billion doses, a, of those vaccines to the African continent. I think it, you could change the world. It could change global health.

Larry Magid (02:10:25):
It's interesting, you know, as for every anti-vaxer there are so many people who are just can't wait. I mean, when you, when you're reading this story, I'm so excited and I was hoping you would mention some diseases that I'm worried about getting, but the point is I,

Leo Laporte (02:10:39):
There is a lot of research about cancer because you know, the big problem with our current cancer treatments is they kill everything around the cancer, whether it's radiation or chemo, they're very, they're poisonous, they're very deadly and a, a targeted vaccine targeted to the genome of the specific cancer organism. You know, you've got, it could potentially transform how we treat cancer. So all of that is on the horizon. I think it's very, very interesting. And you know what, Darwin will win in the long run.

Larry Magid (02:11:14):

Leo Laporte (02:11:15):
If you're against it, that's fine. Don't get the vaccine. 

Larry Magid (02:11:19):
Yeah, the only time, the only reason I actually have any problem with it is when you're talking about a communicable disease,

Leo Laporte (02:11:23):
Well, thats

Larry Magid (02:11:24):
Right. Failure to take the vaccine. It's not just you,

Leo Laporte (02:11:26):
My health.

Larry Magid (02:11:26):
Yeah. But if it's cancer and as far as we know cancer, isn't contagious. Take it. Don't take it, you know, that's, that's your problem. Yeah. But when it came to

Evan Brown (02:11:35):
Be sensitive to the larger issue, I mean, you know, we can't be dismissive th this, this again is, there's a theme here of, of the variety of, of, of viewpoints here. I mean, one may think that it's you know, baffling, why this is a polarizing issue. You know, and one may see very clearly, but you know, we, if we don't want to have a continuation of the trench warfare of information that's been going on the last couple of years, we've gotta find more meaningful ways to, to, to, well, you know, make

Leo Laporte (02:12:07):
Information. And it happens a lot of realms. I mean there are those who think GMOs are hazardous and wanna stop at cold. And there are who see GMOs as the future of food delivery in the world. I mean, it's I think though, in the long run these discussions are fine and appropriate, but in the long run, I think the benefits outweigh the negatives, but we'll see. Oh yeah,

Larry Magid (02:12:33):

Carolina Milanesi (02:12:34):
And they're facts, right? There's science. We see the data. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (02:12:39):
Absolutely. Ford is going to ship and sell vehicles that are missing chips. Apparently GM's been doing this too. We had the story a couple of weeks ago, the GM was gonna start selling trucks without seat warmers, cuz they couldn't get the chips to control the seat. Warmers Ford is gonna start doing this too vehicles without rear heating or air conditioning controls. And then when the semiconductors become more available, the dealer will get them and, and you'll have to go in and get 'em installed. So they're actually building these vehicles with like a, you know, a socket waiting for the rest of the, of the parts

Carolina Milanesi (02:13:18):
I have to say, I read the title and I was like, what?

Leo Laporte (02:13:22):

Carolina Milanesi (02:13:22):
Know, maybe it would've helped if it non-critical part

Leo Laporte (02:13:26):
Not critical, but that's, what's so interesting. The chip shortage a lot

Carolina Milanesi (02:13:29):

Leo Laporte (02:13:30):
Yeah. It's not just, you know, it's not just the flagship CPUs or GPU. The chip shortage affects brilliant. Maybe even worse. These little legacy nodes, these small factories that are, you know, the entirely responsible for the seat, warming, semiconductor wireless charging, HD radios, a fuel management module. Tesla sold some cars without USP ports, but made 'em installable. Yeah. On a later date Cadillac.

Carolina Milanesi (02:13:59):
Well that's why apple was able to have more on the

Leo Laporte (02:14:02):
Mac. That's right. Kidding. Thank goodness. Right? No, you're not. You're kidding. But it's true. Apple with its huge buying power went to TSMC and bought up all capacity. And so you're not you're actually, I mean, I don't know if you're wrong specifically. I don't think we can blame apple for no USB ports in the Tesla, but, but, but certainly apple because of its cloud was able to buy up all the chip production. BMW began shipping some cars without touch screens Cadillac. Really? Wow. Yeah. Cadillac nix its hand driving. How do

Larry Magid (02:14:32):
You drive a car without a touchscreen? Is that possible

Leo Laporte (02:14:35):
Use knobs like, like a, well like an animal. You do that styles buttons. All right. Let me take one more break. Then we can get a few more stories in and wrap it up. I have, I have, I have a fan panel Carolina ESE. So nice to have you here. What's for dinner tonight. Just curious. I might come over.

Carolina Milanesi (02:15:00):
Well, given that we are finishing at eight 30, I'm afraid the kid is on their own

Leo Laporte (02:15:05):
And oh no, I don't know what hamburgers hamburgers. That's it. I know. It's great to have you of course Larry Magid, my old friend connect at Larry Magid on TWiTter and a long time friend of the network, former co-host of this weekend law, Evan brown from Good to have all three of you. Our show today brought to you by mint mobile. I hear so many horror stories about people who, who are who have cell phone service with the big three. And I just wanna say, just get MIT mobile, get MIT mobile. What's your, what's your cell bill, seriously with Verizon or at and T or sprint, you know it's 80, 90, 90 bucks, a hundred bucks if saving more and spending less is one of your top goals for 2022 don't delay, you should switch to mint mobile. It's the easiest way to save this year.

Leo Laporte (02:15:57):
They're the first companies sell premium wireless service. Online only don't look for a mint mobile store there isn't one. Just, just go to mint. Mobile.Com/TWiT and maximize your savings plans at mint mobile start at $15 a month. Oh Leah, what could you get for $15 a month? Well, you could get unlimited talk, unlimited text nationwide and high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5g network. 15 bucks a month. Why pay for data? You're not gonna use. I think that's a two gig plan. You can get more, but it's always a lot less by going online only and eliminating the traditional cost of retail. MIT, mobile passes, significant savings onto you and they don't nickel and dime you with hidden fees. You can even get the SIM for free. They'll send you a SIM put in your existing phone. If you want port your, a phone number over all your contacts, go with it.

Leo Laporte (02:16:51):
It's just the right way to go with mint mobile. You choose the amount of monthly data that's right for you and you stop paying for data. You never use if you want. They do have an unlimited plan. I it's like why is, why are we paying more switch to mint, mobile, get premium wireless service starting at $15 a month and they're running on the T-Mobile network. And I have to say by the way, the T-Mobile ultra capacity 5g that we get now here in petal limit. And I think around most of the country, I saw 500 megabits down, 30 megabits up I'm I've I've changed my tune on 5g. So get a 5g phone, the deal you get the 5g with mint, mobile mint, mint, not. Everybody's got Ryan RELs as a spokesperson and owner. Get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month and get the plan Shipp to your door for free mint, 15 a month. Roberto says I have the unlimited plan on my iPhone 13 Promax you like it? Roberta he's in New York works well for you, right? It's a great solution. Thank you, mint mobile. Thank you.

Leo Laporte (02:18:05):
We had a great week on the network this week, so much so that I've I've come. Missioned the editors to prepare this short film for you. Enjoy

Speaker 6 (02:18:15):
I'm Jason Howell. It's also your weekly source. The latest people in real life sitting next to me like me. It's I'm Ron Richards and I'm here in the studio. Woo.

Speaker 7 (02:18:24):
And I don't get to be in the studio, but I'm

Speaker 6 (02:18:26):
Still here. There's a space at the table for you. Some win someday. We'll figure that we'll coordinate that we looked up before the show started. The last time I was here was December, 2018

Speaker 8 (02:18:35):
Previously on TWiTter, TWiT news.

Leo Laporte (02:18:39):
They, they have blown it outta the park. I think very impressive pricing, I think competitive, but more interesting. They found a way to take the existing M one S and make them even more pro with the M one ultra. I think what they offered was their replacement for the iMac pro floss weekly

Speaker 9 (02:18:59):
This week, Jonathan Bedden. And I talked to Matt Mullenweg, Ooh, the co-founder and alpha dude at WordPress, which is with what he calls on the show. The dark matter of the web

Speaker 8 (02:19:14):
Security. Now

Speaker 6 (02:19:14):
Russian authorities are drafting a set of measures to support the country's economy against the pressure of foreign sanctions. And as part of this, the proposal would eliminate intellectual property, right limitations in order to explicitly permit piracy

Leo Laporte (02:19:34):
Within Russia, TWiT it's where your brain and tech meet in a collision of spectacular at a proportion. The sad story of the week Facebook's parent company will make employees do their own laundry. Oh,

Leo Laporte (02:19:55):
All the big tech companies are making employees come back next week or month. Meta told workers on Friday, it will reduce or eliminate some of its famous perks as it brings people back to the office story in the New York times when Mike Isaac, I love it. They also did some sneaky things cutting back or eliminating free services like laundry and dry cleaning. Okay, fine. You know, we don't do our employees laundry either. They're pushing, they had a free dinner free. It used to be at 6:00 PM. It's now six 30. Now you might say, well, what's the big deal about that? Well, the last shuttle home leaves at six,

Larry Magid (02:20:36):
Ah, tricky.

Leo Laporte (02:20:40):
So apparently home

Larry Magid (02:20:42):
And cook your own dinner.

Leo Laporte (02:20:42):
Yeah. Apparently what workers were doing is they were running over, you know, making giant to go by boxes and getting on the bus and going home. Won't be able to do that anymore. Come on me. We're,

Carolina Milanesi (02:20:54):
We're laughing about this, but you know, you can't have your cake and eat it too and ask people to come back and for a lot of employees, especially, you know, geners and millennial going back to campus means going back to some of the perks, right. That make a difference when those perks were part of the reason why maybe your salary wasn't as high as somebody else's right. And now you're taking stuff away. And you're asking me to come in and commute and have longer day or have higher, you know, costs if I'm driving my own car or whatever a case might be. Something's got to give,

Leo Laporte (02:21:38):
I agree. I, it's hard to get people to come back to work. Facebook says they want everybody coming back March 28th, but to say at the same time, but don't worry. You're not gonna get any food or dry cleaning. The, you know, the great resignation is not over.

Carolina Milanesi (02:21:53):

Leo Laporte (02:21:54):
And especially in the tech industry, it's very fluid. I mean, I don't, would you quit a job? Cuz there were fewer beans in the bean bag. I don't know. But it seems like a, a bad time to do something like that. Yeah,

Carolina Milanesi (02:22:10):
You, I think so. I saw, and I can't remember who it was, but it was the talent manager from a, a tech company who said on TWiTter that every time they see a company saying that they're forcing people back, their head answers are hitting up those employees. Yeah. Because he knows that forcing people back right now is not you know, is not a thing to do

Leo Laporte (02:22:36):
Like Mike Isaac's final line in this article, one company, I'm sorry. One employee when re reached for comment on the changes texted, I can't talk, I'm doing my laundry. By the way, Mike, congratulations. His book super pumped is now an HBO series on Travis Callick. And have you, any of you watched super pumped yet? No. No. Cause we I'm curious cuz I mean we covered the story as it was happening and and but, so it's kind of interesting to see. I think it's well done that and dropout show that there's a lot of interest in how Silicon valley works and and the cutthroat kind of culture of Silicon valley is very much highlighted in these TWiTter's looking for younger users. So they've hired a a, a Ute, the world's, the tech world's teen savant, Jess Joss Robinson.

Leo Laporte (02:23:42):
He's an 18 year old freshman at the university of Connecticut. And I'm sorry, that's not who they hired. That's the, that's the lead in the article they hired Michael SA he's a prodigy in Silicon valley when it comes to building products for young people, he dropped out of high school at age 17 recruited by mark Zuckerberg to work for Facebook at Facebook. He helped a platform build out and launched products like these Snapchat killer Instagram stories. He left Facebook in 2017. He worked there on YouTube shorts, which basically was YouTube's attempted TikTok killer. I don't think it succeeded yet. Then he went to Roblox in 2020 to help the gaming platform incorporate more social functionality. Sounds like he is the wonder kind he will be working on at TWiTter, something called zero one, a new group focused on building experimental features within the company. Can you get young people to use TWiTter? Probably not only

Evan Brown (02:24:46):
If you can have the reverse chronological

Leo Laporte (02:24:49):
Timeline. Oh yeah. Thank you for turning that off. It's still in there, but TWiTter has made it harder to I mean, look, that's how I wanna see TWiTter, right? Yep. I don't, in fact I hate it. I I'll open TWiTter and I get something for three days ago. Yeah. That's not what I wanna see. So the design change, which lets you swipe between your home, which is the algorithmic non chronological timeline and the latest, which is the chronological timeline was announced Thursday to set it up. You tap, I'll have to try this. Tap the sparkle icon. Oh God. In the, I guess it's better than the hamburger menu. You tap the sparkle icon in the top, right corner. The option to pin your latest timeline. If you select that, you'll see both home and latest tabs at the top of the iOS app.

Leo Laporte (02:25:39):
If you used pin lists on the iOS app, that layout should look familiar. The feature is available right now in iOS coming through the Android and the web. So that sounds like it's easier or no, it's harder cause okay. So this is why it's harder. According to JP Peter's writing for the verge to my great disappointment. I found that after testing the feature, I can't make the chronological feed the default anymore. Yeah. Instead I can only have home as my default or swap back and forth between the two. Ah yeah, of course TWiTter like YouTube and Facebook. They want you to, they want algorithmically control what tweets you're seeing because they think it makes it better or you don't agree to Evan.

Evan Brown (02:26:27):
Well, I just get nostalgic and think of what it was like using TWiTter in 2007, you know,

Leo Laporte (02:26:32):
In the good old days. So yeah, 2007, those were the days. Yeah. Your timeline shows the latest tweets. So don't do it. So right now I'm seeing the latest tweets. I don't change it. Cuz then you can continue to see the latest tweets, I guess. I dunno. This is why a third party app. I still use a tweet deck, which the latest tweets scrolls much better actually tweet deck is owned by TWiTter. Isn't it? I know. And I keep waiting for them to pull the plug cuz maybe they think nobody uses it. I use it the most severe vulnerability in Linux in years, dirty pipe. Just be aware of it. It gives it's a, it's a PED escalation exploit, which means somebody can basically become root on your machine without your permission. If they have a login. I think that it will be, I think it's probably been fixed on most versions of Linux. The real problem is these older systems like our server over here that don't get updated as often. It first appeared in Linux Colonel version 5.8. It is with 5 16, 11 or 5 15 25 or five ten one oh two. So just to be aware, unfortunately, Android runs on Linux and many Android versions are running on a vulnerable version. So heads up lime wire is making a comeback. You ready? Remember lime wire? Unfortunately it's an N it's a music NFT marketplace. So don't, don't get your, don't get your hopes though.

Leo Laporte (02:28:23):
And prepare yourself, John. I know you're prepared for a massive Corona mass ejection, a long duration C2, solar flare. I gonna read this from space weather, a long duration C2, solar flare launched an asymmetrical full halo, Corona mass ejection into space. The solar plasma cloud is likely to arrive at earth later tonight, minor G one geo magic geomagnetic storm conditions are likely with a chance of moderate G two conditions. So prepare yourself.

Larry Magid (02:28:59):
I have no idea what you just

Leo Laporte (02:29:00):
Said. Don't either basically I guess, I mean it's a tweet basically. There it is. By the way, you wanna see a Corona mass ejection. That's a Chron mass ejection man. O I think it means mostly really nice north and lights tonight. I think mostly is what it means. If you're a ham, you know what to do. I don't think it's gonna affect our technology. It's good in theory. Right?

Larry Magid (02:29:26):
So far so

Leo Laporte (02:29:27):
Good. Yeah. So far nothing just be just wanted you to warn, warn you to prepare yourself and it could happen. Boy, that means we're scraping the bottom of the barrel. If we've gotten a, if we've got a space weather. So I think it's time to say everybody go have a nice dinner. M thanks for staying up late with us. I really appreciate it. It's great to see you founder of the heart of tech. If you wanna put some heart back into your business, a consultancy that helps you do the right thing. And of course she is an analyst at creative strategies at creative Strat. Anything you wanna plug Carolina, this is your chance.

Carolina Milanesi (02:30:06):
I just I'm on TWiTter. If you wanna, you know, reach out and hit

Leo Laporte (02:30:10):
Me up, this is what the kids say hit

Carolina Milanesi (02:30:12):
Me up pretty much. Yeah. And you get bonuses of three cats and a dog that always show up on my feed. So it's not just tech and then experimenting more and more on Instagram. Both places you can find me at carro underscore Milanese as you see on the screen. Nice. And yeah. And is the kid is grateful that I am not attempted TikTok cuz they're embarrassed enough as it is.

Leo Laporte (02:30:38):
Do they TikTok? Do they have a TikTok?

Carolina Milanesi (02:30:41):
No. They follow people. They're not really in to creating content for TikTok more on the YouTube side.

Leo Laporte (02:30:49):
Yeah. Nice. Very cool. Thank you very much, Larry Magid for being here. Appreciate it. It's always great to see you anything you'd like to plug besides of course connect Well, yeah,

Larry Magid (02:31:00):
I would say for those of you who aren't glued to terrestrial radio and wanna hear my C B program, you can go to connect safely and there you go, click on the radio tab or on the podcast, webcast radio. It's only one minute long and I get to interview some kind of cool people. Even in one minute, it's kind of a, a tweet on the air so to speak.

Leo Laporte (02:31:17):
Yeah. You know, sometimes short format's not so bad.

Larry Magid (02:31:20):
Yeah. Make it really forces you to be. And by the way, when I say one minute, it is never 1.1 minute. No it is over 59 seconds. It is one it's really hard. You don't

Leo Laporte (02:31:29):
Have to 59.9.

Larry Magid (02:31:32):
Yeah. I might go with 59.9, but I wouldn't go with 60.1. I just cause the stations might, might dump.

Leo Laporte (02:31:38):
I just got something. I've you know anybody who's worked in radio used to carry a cassette player over your shoulder, big heavy thing. And then

Larry Magid (02:31:46):
Mo rans. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:31:47):
Yeah. Remember the Morans? Yes. Always carried those around. Love those. Yep. And then eventually went solid state and it was like a little mini, like a little smaller. I just got this from zoom. This is the, this is their zoom F three field recorder. Look at this. Hmm. You could carry it in your pocket. It has a mic two mic. So you could actually have two mics XR. Wow. XR. So you could do a, this is perfect for radio and it does something I'm learning about called 32 bit float. I'm sorry, is that right? Yeah. 32 bit float recording, which means you can't over dry. You can overdrive the mic, but you could have a loud noise, a quiet noise, whatever. And you can fix it and post. So I'm gonna, you know, if I come up to you and I got a microphone and you can't see what's on the other end, it's probably in my pocket. Just like could do it.

Larry Magid (02:32:33):
What's nice about that. You can use any of your analog mics, right? Yeah's M 58.

Leo Laporte (02:32:38):
This is an yeah. Well actually this is a 7 58 clone from a company called pile. Okay. Sounds really good. But yeah, you can just do handheld mic with a mic flag. I'm excited. This is it's funny.

Larry Magid (02:32:49):
How do

Leo Laporte (02:32:49):
You get, I think I'm still on radio. I'm not, but I think I'm still on radio. So like I could go to CES and say Larry Magid, CBS radio news. What do you think?

Larry Magid (02:32:58):
I don't know.

Leo Laporte (02:32:59):
That's it?

Larry Magid (02:33:00):
I think that's a nice microphone. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:33:02):

Larry Magid (02:33:03):
Microphone. You know what I would think is why aren't you doing this? Cause everybody now use,

Leo Laporte (02:33:06):
I know user phone, this is better. This is better. I could get 99. I'm sure it is 0.9, nine hours on this. Evan brown, Evan dot log. Give us a plug.

Evan Brown (02:33:18):
Well, that's it go there. Read my blog, your friends about it. You know, although on the right hand, side's my TWiTter, Facebook, LinkedIn, so would love to love to connect. And I've just had a great time this afternoon. Thank you for, thank you for having me, Larry. Nice to meet you. I've followed your work for, for years and years and oh, like wonderful to be in the same, same context here, Carolina. Very nice to meet you. So intrigued to learn about you and the important things you're doing. So 

Larry Magid (02:33:47):
I would shake. Thanks. Let me hang out. Be scratched by screen. So

Leo Laporte (02:33:51):
Thanks. Thanks for being here. I actually should plug Carolina's interview with Justine and Jenna in Forbes, the power of knowing you belong, cuz we're big fans and in, and you know Justine was a, they are very good. People was a discovery. Alex Lindsay made in Pittsburgh at a WordPress convention. He came to me, he said, you've gotta meet this person. She's gonna be huge. She said 2008, 2009, something like that. And she's been our show many times. She's too big now for us. So we can't get her anymore. Wow. So that's a great article. I can't wait to read it. Forbes. Thank you everybody. We do TWiT every Sunday evening, round two 30 Pacific, five 30 Eastern. Yes we sprang forward today. Aren't you glad that I didn't go on and on about what a horrible idea it is to change the clock TWiTce a year.

Leo Laporte (02:34:41):
Yeah. I just left that out. But now that we're in daylight saving time you'll have to adjust cuz we moved. You may not have in fact around the rest of the world, they haven't yet. In many cases, they're not yet on summertime, but we are on summertime. So that means I'm just gonna tell you TC and you could do the calculations 2130 UTC on a Sunday afternoon. After the fact you can get on demand versions of the show at the website, There's a YouTube channel for this weekend. Tech, the longest running technology news show in the world. You can also, since 2005, you also subscribe in your favorite podcast client and get it automatically. If you don't like ads, we do have an ad free version. I should tell you about all you have to do is subscribe to club TWiT $7 a month, add free audio or video of everything.

Leo Laporte (02:35:31):
Nope, that's the wrong one. Audio, audio, and video for everything that we do. There you go. You get access to the great club, TWiT discord, which is a wonderful place for discussions. In fact, we have some events coming up, Paul, Theros gonna do a an event, a inside TWiT style event. Patrick Delehanty did his yesterday day be no, no it's coming up this week. Our engineer, if you wanna see some of the people behind the scenes, we're gonna start doing, we have Stacy HIBAs club, TWiT book club on March 24th. Corey Dr. Rose, unauthorized, Brad Pauls will be on March 31st. So those discord discussions are lots of fun. Plus you get the TWiT plus feed with this, which is filled loaded with content that doesn't make it to the podcasts. We also use the revenue from club TWiT to help us launch new shows. We just launch this week in space, started in the club. It's now available to the public at So a lot of good stuff. Thank you to our club, TWiT members. We appreciate each and every one of you TWiT. If you want to join the club. Thanks everybody. We'll see you next time. Another TWiT

Speaker 10 (02:36:43):
The doing the doing, doing the, doing the.

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