MacBreak Weekly Episode 887 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

0:00:00 - Leo Laporte
It's time for MacBreak Weekly. Everybody's in the house. Jason snows back from his visit to Cupertino Andy and not goes here. Alex Lindsay is well. Of course we're gonna be talking about the new iPhone, the new Apple watch, but there's also iOS17, ipadOS 17 and the new watchOS. There's lots ahead. MacBreak Weekly is next. Podcasts you love from people you trust.

This is this is MacBreak Weekly episode 887, recorded Tuesday, september 19th 2023. Faux-Keh. This episode of MacBreak Weekly is brought to you by Discourse, the online home for your community at ours. Discourse makes it easy to have meaningful conversations and Collaborate anytime, anywhere. Visit to get one month free and all self-serve plans. And by Fastmail, reclaim your privacy, boost productivity and make email yours with Fastmail. Try it now free for 30 days at and by delete me, reclaim your privacy by removing personal data from online sources. Protect yourself and reduce the risk of fraud, spam, cybersecurity threats and more. By going to and using the code twit for 20% off. It's time for MacBreak Weekly, the show. We cover the latest Apple news. This is the the week where we take a breath after the excitement of last week and assess Now. Here's some good news We've got Jason Snell back. He was in the house, yeah, last week, and we'll give us his thoughts from six colors, comm and Mac world.

0:01:55 - Jason Snell
Thank you for being here.

0:01:55 - Leo Laporte
Yes, we missed you Also, andy and I co WG BH Ballstone. Hello, andy, I apologize. I was literally miles from you and joined the muggy, muggy humidity of a beautiful Rhode Island and of the Narragansett Bay, but I kind of busy and I couldn't know.

0:02:15 - Andy Ihnatko
No worries, as as I like to say that there's a, it's not a social obligation, it's a social opportunity.

0:02:20 - Leo Laporte
I would love to have seen you doesn't say you know we have a lot of Patrick Della hanties nearby. He's in Milford, milford. Lou Moresca is in the area. He says I'm minutes away if you need a hand. Andy, it turns out there's something about that area. It's just Paul Theriot used to live near nearby.

0:02:39 - Andy Ihnatko
It's far. Yes, there's something about like people who need to be near Boston but can't bear it, can't even closely afford to live actually in. Boston. That's exactly causes these clusters of independent.

0:02:51 - Leo Laporte
Right, we were in. We went to a great restaurant, warren, rhode Island and I'm thinking I'm really close to Andy now and it was good to buy water. Great fish place, really, really enjoyed it. That was a lot of fun. That was my thank you to my sister and my my nephew, for helping out with all the hard work and All the way from office hours at global, which is almost as near as Andy is, to my mom. Mr Alex Lindsay Hello Alex, hello, hello. You're in our neck of the woods and I still haven't seen you in ages and so you know it's comfortable.

0:03:28 - Alex Lindsay
Why go out drive? Why leave? The drive is really pretty comfortable. Here I walk barefoot from the kitchen to the, to the office, and why like? Like mr Rogers, and off we go.

0:03:41 - Leo Laporte
So we have a new iPhone?

0:03:46 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, I thought we don't have it, well, maybe get on Friday. I need it, there we go, there's always some people do.

0:03:53 - Leo Laporte
There's always somebody who gets by accident early, and then there's the reviewers, and I'm just gonna say, jason, that they review. Embargo usually is the Wednesday before the phone ships, so I am not going. It dropped this morning, oh so you could talk.

0:04:08 - Jason Snell
I Don't have one so I could talk.

0:04:10 - Alex Lindsay
I can always talk.

0:04:13 - Leo Laporte
But the reviews are starting to come in.

0:04:15 - Jason Snell
But the embargo reviews Dropped for phone and not watch, so I guess they're gonna roll the funder, but for the phone today, so like the urge, don't watch, there's probably not a whole lot to say.

0:04:27 - Leo Laporte
I asked Michael, our 20 year old, who's been waiting to get a new iPhone. I said you're gonna get a new watch of that, he said cuz he has an Apple watch. He said what's the difference? I said this, you summon this. He said no, I don't need and.

0:04:43 - Andy Ihnatko
Even, and even that's not new, yeah, you get an accessibility yeah.

I'm trying to wrap my. I can't find a technical answer to the question of why are they announcing this as a new feature when it is something it's been an accessibility for quite a while? Like, are they? Are they? Have they just simply promoted it from okay, you're no longer accessibility, you are now a mainstream feature? Or are they? Have they basically added enough AI, elfin magic to the feature to make it more reliable and more? The difference between someone who uses an accessibility feature because that's what's required to you to use that device and the difference of the difference between someone who's using it because, hey, I expect this as just a regular part of the portfolio features Maybe it has to work a lot better and a lot tighter the, the people that Apple cares about these days, have have weighed in, of course, even though you know I justine says it's not a phone anymore.

0:05:39 - Leo Laporte
It's. I think. I imagine she's gonna say it's a camera right.

0:05:43 - Alex Lindsay
I have to admit that I I've been thinking about that a lot because I, I'd say, ordered it and I looked at the feature set. You know a lot of the, the bits and pieces of it. I'm not so like aces, support and so on, for for the captures, you know log aces and having the black magic, you know camera and all these other things. I was like I don't know if I'm gonna give up my 14 because I may still use my 14 as a phone and just use the 15 for a While as a camera. You know, and not really, you know, like not think about it because it's very multi.

When you think about it as a camera, you think about it as a multi-purpose camera with. You know, I can do 3d, I can do other things, and I may want to use it or even put it into rigs that other people are using, and then it's no fun To have it be a phone. The problem with the phone is all the interruptions and all the other things that may happen in that area, and so so I'm still. I, even though I asked for the box to send my, my 14, back, I'm now on the fence. That's why they don't give you money.

0:06:33 - Leo Laporte
Ahead of gave my, I gave my sister my iPhone 14, so I am I phone lists for the first time ever this weekend. That means my watch doesn't work either. I'm all Android, andy. I'm like you today. I'm an Android man, but I'm surviving. It's not the end of the world, you know. I've been using it, android Auto instead of carplay. Justine of course this is part of being in the in-crowd has, of course, a video of her and Tim Cook hugging, as does Marques Brownlee. I guess that's part of the deal. If you go to the event, did you get a picture with Tim Cook?

0:07:10 - Jason Snell
Did he I? The line was too long is what I want to say I know, I didn't.

I didn't see him there, I happened to get. I got through it. It was weird because the iPhone event is very strange because it's the the media compositions completely different, a lot of international media but I was able to get into the hands-on area and like, do all the stuff surprisingly fast. Usually you get stuck behind a youtuber from Unknown country that speaking the language you don't understand, and they're doing their entire stand-up and their entire demo and you lose the will to live and I and I was able to pop in in there real fast and like I was over at the Apple watch and they're like, oh, put on the watch, let's do the new thing with the gesture. And I went over to the phones and they're like, oh, here it is and you can pick it up.

And like I, I was surprised, I was after about half an hour. I was like I think I've literally touched all the stuff and gotten all the demos and and I don't think Tim was even there yet because he sort of you wait to make an appearance the mob comes and everybody takes their pictures of Tim and they get their hugs. Apparently I missed the sign for the free Tim Cook hugs. I mean, I'm a little sorry, tim, because I you know I invited him to the Cal Auburn game but that weekend and he never got back to me. Oh man, he's seat next to me.

He's probably there right like, but in the fancy part.

0:08:28 - Leo Laporte
Easter basket of reactions to Apple's phone event. You sound so you guys weren't sitting out in the rainbow Stage. You are inside. No, we're in the Steve Jobs theater.

0:08:39 - Jason Snell
Nice that's where the demo area is is you. You go back out of the theater to the back and exit and there's a huge area. But this all purpose built to do this. Purpose built that when you emerge from the theater which used to have live presentations but now just plays the video, tim did come out on stage and welcome all of us and then he went away and played the video. But you emerge from the back of it and they've got this giant setup with all of the products on long, super long tables. It's kind of like a weird alternate universe, apple store kind of thing. And then, and every at you know, and they were, they did oh, there are a lot of people there Demo wing. The product which is probably why I got through it so fast is that they really made an effort to have huge amounts of product with huge amounts of demo stations and that's the. That's the real value in going is that Last Tuesday I got to hold right an iPhone 15 and a 15 pro and you got a lot of funny.

0:09:32 - Leo Laporte
You got a lot of press because you said how light it felt.

0:09:36 - Jason Snell
Exactly. Well, I was gonna say it's kind of funny because you know that I think that pickup test is actually one of the most important things and it's experiential. So I that moment where I've been carrying around my phone 14 pro for the last year and I picked up the 15 for the first time and I really want to Remember what my reaction is, because I'm never gonna get an initial reaction again and my reaction was wait a second, like it felt so much lighter I. I really believed that it was gonna be. You know, measured in grams and Technically it's lighter. But act, the act of picking it up and holding it, you know, holding it up in my hand, I Could absolutely tell that it was lighter, presumably because of the titanium, which led to my friend the Thing with math About how, if you change the weight around the edges, yeah, you will get. He says it's probably also that it is 10% lighter. But it might be heightened by the fact that the edges aren't as heavy as they used to be.

0:10:36 - Leo Laporte
Rotational inertia. And he, by the way, he shows the math.

0:10:41 - Andy Ihnatko
Oh yeah, I don't even know how to generate those math equations in HTML.

0:10:47 - Jason Snell
If you read dr Dr Drang's blog, you'll find that he's been experimenting with different techniques in terms of generating equations. He's gonna go with math ml now, but anyway, I thought that was really informative where he said look, part of the effect here, at least, is that they've taken the heavy thing that's around the edges, which is, you know, when you're picking up a phone, there's like some inertia, and the amount around the edges is Is is going to maybe create more of an effect in your hand than if it was Uniform throughout, and the fact is, the edges is where all that stainless steel was. That's now titanium, which is much lighter, and so, either way, though, the bottom line is, I picked it up and I went whoa, it is lighter, and I did not expect to feel that way, and I felt that that was useful, and yes. Then there was a whole dialogue about the physics of it. That involved a lot of math.

0:11:34 - Leo Laporte
I was told there would be no math, so Wait, the mass of the phone is 90, 10% less the in grams. But dr Drang, using math, points out that it's called the moment of inertia. It makes sense when you handle a phone, you don't just, you don't put it in your palm, your hand and weigh it. You, you're, you're rotating it around and it's the, it's the weight on the edges. So he says, because of this reduced weight on the edges, the rotation on the moment of inertia, the rotational issues 14 or 15%, which would be much more noticeable than my.

0:12:10 - Jason Snell
Moving the edges right moving the center and it makes an easy way to think about it.

0:12:14 - Alex Lindsay
It's like a lever. You know, if you have a lever, the longer that lever is, the that that weight is gonna put more pressure on it, and that's all you're doing.

0:12:20 - Leo Laporte
It's really. This was a good piece. I I thought that was that's. That's going deep. I hope dr Dr Got a Tim hug.

0:12:27 - Jason Snell
He's, yeah, he's so, he's so great. I I've met the internet's mysterious snowman, dr, dr, dr, he's a. He's a now retired just retired mechanical engineer specialized in In failures.

Actually, like you know, a light standard falls down or a bridge is collapsing or something, and they bring in dr, dr To analyze the failures and do all I am probably. He probably also doesn't just do failures, but anyway, and and then the Apple stuff is his hobby and so it's it's he has extra skills that most of the pundits, myself included, do not have. I mean, I took college calculus. Okay, I understand a little bit of math, but I see his equations.

0:13:06 - Andy Ihnatko
I'm like forget it All right, that's well. That's why specialists are so valuable. It's like there is, there is someone who knows exactly like he also knows exactly what kind of titanium. This is what the welding process to aluminum must be like, that, whether whether they did anything and innovative in the construction process or not, and how it actually becomes completely relevant. And one of the thing unique things about Apple is that I Don't with a lot of other companies. You would think that that would be maybe a happy accident. They decided to switch to titanium for just to make it lighter, and then a whole way Wow, reviews are actually saying it feels even lighter than it is.

Hey, bonus, whereas you've kind of you've kind of feel as though with the as long as they're not making a mouse, apple really figures out. How does this feel in the user's hand? How can we? Can we, can we make this edge a little bit more defined to give them, give someone, make a nestle inside the corks of your fingers a little bit better? Or do we want a rounded edge there and that's that? Seems as though that certainly comes through have you seen the ad?

0:14:03 - Alex Lindsay
the ad is so over the top but it's so much fun. They they're titanium iPhone ad. Have you seen the?

0:14:08 - Leo Laporte
oh, there's one where this coming, I watch. Yes, I watch football this weekend, alex, I saw it 90 times.

0:14:14 - Jason Snell
Every time there was one point.

0:14:16 - Alex Lindsay
So YouTube TV now has this new feature where you can watch four games at a time and just move the audio around. You know, if you, if you have the NFL ticket, you can just move the audio to whatever game you're wanting. When it's not money night football and the Steelers are playing, I'm just watching a bunch of games.

0:14:31 - Leo Laporte
We watched a bunch of Steelers games. I gotta say we have ever seen the Steelers play twice now.

0:14:36 - Alex Lindsay
But the they. There was one point where, on all the games, this, this ad was playing and we're just in different levels of oh, that's the best shot right there. That's shot right there, going through the Saturn's rings. Let's go back, let's go back. Oh, this is my favorite.

0:14:49 - Leo Laporte
The theory is the premises. This is where titanium comes from. I don't know this is accurate, but Titanium comes from space as a meteor. And then it all comes from space, that's really good I should do.

0:15:01 - Alex Lindsay
the other part is really good is when it goes through this, the, the, the, the subsurface scattering going through the clouds.

0:15:08 - Leo Laporte
It's really super.

0:15:10 - Alex Lindsay
It's real. It's like when you have all the money to do something, just well.

0:15:13 - Leo Laporte
It also is when you have a brand, because the first three quarters of this ad doesn't mention Apple at all. You don't know what you're watching it looks like a sci-fi movie, right that's right, watch.

0:15:22 - Alex Lindsay
Watch it go into the clouds. Watch it go into the clouds. Right there, it was right there.

0:15:28 - Andy Ihnatko
Can I say there's somewhere, somewhere in some like edit suite in Cupertino, there is a version of this where, like the, when they start talking, it's entirely different. Message is like what if a meteor Causes an extinction level event on the planet? You'll be happy that you had an iPhone.

0:15:48 - Leo Laporte
Your people from the far. As long as the satellite survives, you one you like, the one where it's going into the clouds, it goes into this, into the clouds.

0:15:55 - Alex Lindsay
It's just like this oh, oh, when it goes through, it, just, it just gives it.

We're not playing the sound because Apple is very picky and even though we're showing an ad, they will put us down and they they didn't do the classic, because it's a little bit of an old trope, but the classic powers of ten shot, because we usually, when we did shots like that I used to do shot I did a couple commercials with shots like that and you have to build a shot where it's where you see the whole earth coming up and you Go through the clouds and now you're coming in close up and then we finish it. I love those shots.

0:16:24 - Leo Laporte
Now and grown and right you zoom in. It's the zoom. I love that. By the way, the internet tells me that titanium is the ninth most abundant element on earth. It's almost always present in igneous rocks and the sediments derived from them. It occurs in the minerals.

0:16:40 - Jason Snell
Was. I think you'll find that the earth itself was formed from a protoplanetary disk in space and therefore all titanium it's like every other element comes from space.

0:16:50 - Leo Laporte
It does there when the earth forms doesn't come in later.

0:16:54 - Andy Ihnatko
Some of it also comes in later, as you, as you all know, as you all know, the very first villain that was able to actually fight Ironman Toad to toe was a man Made out of titanium. Speaks for itself. Stand the man he you know tight, you know. Apple, not all that innovative. And stand the man he had that, he he stole that from artists in 1968.

0:17:21 - Leo Laporte
I have to say, speaking of internet nerds To tech crunches hajai John Kemp's, who did the math. He said if you had bought Apple stock instead of iPhones Every year since 2007, you would now be $147,000 richer, great, but you would have no phone. Here you're gonna text saying look how rich I am.

0:17:44 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, and if I spent all that money on all of the winning powerball tickets since 2005, I would be able to buy and sell you on musk.

0:17:56 - Leo Laporte
A hundred forty seven thousand. I mean, it's not. You might say, oh, it's millions, but no, it's just a hundred forty seven.

0:18:00 - Jason Snell
Not a lot, no, no, the iPhone, the big games. You need to go back in time first, so it does that money in a time machine, and then go back by Apple stock earlier then 12 and 7 eighths.

0:18:11 - Andy Ihnatko
That number is imprinted on my mind because that is the stock price. When I decided that I Can't invest in Apple, no matter what it would be immoral, unethical and probably illegal, I have I had, I figured out how many shares I could buy, but I said no if I have Apple stock.

0:18:30 - Leo Laporte
It is in a mutual fund that I am not managing in any lockbox. Yeah all of my, all of my money is and I think I'm glad I did this is in Vanguard, and I'll tell you this young people Vanguard, a target retirement funds where you say, well, I'm retired in 2025 or 2020, 30, 2030, and then you just don't look at it and I I imagine there's some Apple stock in there, but I'm I don't know and I and I know I'm not attempting to improve my retirement by promoting Apple products.

0:19:00 - Jason Snell
Right, and so if you're young it's it's got more risk and as you get older there's less actually risk in them. Forget.

0:19:06 - Leo Laporte
You know, my. I know so many people who pay financial advisors and I always say if they were so good, why are they working for a living?

0:19:14 - Andy Ihnatko
You know Just put it in low cost love helping people. Yeah, that's sure.

0:19:20 - Leo Laporte
I'm rich now but I still work because I love you. Put it in low, low, low load vanguards. Very good, it funds that Tiger retirement funds exactly they read. They rebalance it every court. You don't have to think about it. And then magic, as long as the economy doesn't collapse or we get hit by a giant titanium meteorite, you'll have something at the end.

0:19:43 - Jason Snell
It's okay, it's very light, it won't hurt.

0:19:46 - Leo Laporte
Here is an excellent article from petapixel Talking about the camera, because I think we all agree. I justine's not really wrong when she says it's a camera now as much as it is a phone.

0:19:56 - Alex Lindsay
That's all I was waiting for in the keynote, the whole keynote. I was waiting Okay, what's in the camera? What's in the camera, what's that's right? Nothing else matters.

0:20:03 - Leo Laporte
It's a look. It's always a good phone, it's always a good internet device, it's always a good messaging device, but it's the camera.

0:20:09 - Alex Lindsay
Well, and I also think that with the watch I mean to go back to the watch I think that Apple's working really hard on this I really become conscious. I've been really studying about glucose and If they, if they crack that, oh, that's a big like there's. I don't.

0:20:22 - Leo Laporte
what is it? A hundred four fourteen million Diabetics in the country, yeah, but beyond, I bet it's going to.

0:20:29 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, the impact that it's going to have is gonna make what Atkins did to donuts right, like a walk in the park. That's right, because when people see I was, you know I'm about to get a one, just it's just. I don't have diabetes, I just want to see.

0:20:42 - Leo Laporte
I've continuous glucose meters.

0:20:44 - Alex Lindsay
It's fascinating and and when you start to see it, you start. You know, I was talking to a friend of mine that when he started to use it, he was just like I started eating differently, like I just look at where my spikes were and I'm like you know, I don't feel like doing that anymore, and and and being able to have the math changed everything, and so I think that I felt like they're working really hard. I they didn't quite make it work and so all we got was pinching Like but they're, but they're probably your tool.

0:21:07 - Leo Laporte
It's hard to do and I think I don't know who this was. Maybe it was Jason and pointed out, or are Micah. Don't expect the same data that you get from your glucose meter, because it's not gonna be like that. It's not anything has to be right, it's gonna be a more general Trend instead of actual numbers.

0:21:27 - Alex Lindsay
I think that that's all it needs to show, though I think that it'll change you'lls behavior when Tim Cook talks about in their biggest impact being health. Having a glucose meter is going to change, just with relative like hey, you're high and you've got a high glucose, like yesterday During the football game it told me, like four times You're seated and you have a hundred twenty Twenty-three.

0:21:47 - Leo Laporte
That was a by the way. Kudos to you. I'm thinking about you the whole time on Monday night football. Kudos to the Steelers that was a hell of a game and the Browns who played, but that is such. You guys are brutal when you play. That is smashmouth Football.

0:22:01 - Alex Lindsay
Wow, that's both teams that played the same way, is it's? Hard to watch, yeah but, but, but it was a good game. Very good one. Give me warnings throughout the second half of, like your heart rate is they were.

0:22:14 - Leo Laporte
There were four or five lead changes in the game. I mean it was.

0:22:19 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, there was actually speaking of blood glucose. I didn't put in the in the notes, but there's a bloom. Excuse me, I'm German. Says that there's a new chief of the team developing the watches glucose tracker.

0:22:31 - Jason Snell
Yes, tim Malay, who I've interviewed a couple of times on my upgrade podcast, really Smart guy, very involved in the Apple Silicon transition, and this is a it is a silicon challenge. It sounds like this is a. This is all about like hardware and getting the hardware and the sensors to all work together and doing, you know, some machine learning based analysis. And because it's. It is the idea that you've just got a sensor that's sitting on the back of your wrist and looking into your skin to see the blood flow and Somehow being able to, based on those sensors, determine your well blood glucose.

0:23:12 - Leo Laporte
Because it is not, it may not even be doable. I mean, at this point it's all speculation. I think, yeah, there's at least a 50-50 chance.

0:23:22 - Alex Lindsay
They just you know If they if they just make, if they put a little pinprick into our watch, then it'll be, it'll be perfect. Well, you'll see when you get your glucose meter.

0:23:30 - Leo Laporte
It's put it is. It is intrusive, it's putting filaments in, but people are nervous when they put it on. But it doesn't hurt. It's like and it's a little irritating that it's there but you know, you get used to it, but it's still sticking stuff into your skin.

0:23:44 - Jason Snell
I think I my understanding is that Apple is fairly confident that it can be done, in the sense that you can take like a room-sized sensor and look through the skin and do a lot of processing and you can get a result. But the problem is we're not gonna carry a room size sensor around on our wrist. So the question is not like, can it be done? I think they've established that it can be done, like placing something on the skin and getting a result. But can you get that in a watch right Like, can you fit it there? That's the challenge in Tim Malay. You know, having worked on the Apple Silicon team, and this is all.

This group has been part of the chip team, along Johnny Shruji's chip team. Apparently, I think it's a. I mean, part of it is that there was a death right. The guy who ran this team died late last year unexpectedly, and so they need a leader for it. But I think it's fascinating because it sounds to me like it is about executing, because it does seem like maybe this will never happen, but if I think the payoff is so great if it does happen that it's worth the investment.

0:24:50 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, the government had a report that says that they actually have it working on a device. They says it's quote the size of about the size of an iPhone. So they've got proof of concept, or at least for what they intend that sensor to do. May not actually be like the intrusive sensor giving you an actual reading, but something more like the heart rate monitor or the activity monitor that says, hey, this is an interesting trend. You might wanna have this checked. If you have an actual glucose monitor, you might wanna check this out. But and he's also saying that they're thinking years, like a few years away, three, four, five years away, if they managed to pull this off successfully.

So it's definitely not a reason to not buy a new Apple watch, because by the time the watch you buy this year is, you know, it goes to the land of ghosts and winds. Maybe the glucose monitor will be there. But once again, I will always say this every time Apple has another really cool breakthrough on fitness and on the Apple watch health tracking, it still asks the question gee dudes, now you actually with the Iowa 617, now you actually have the health app on my iPad. Tell me once again why I can't buy an Apple watch and have it paired to my iPad, and why I'm still required to have an iPhone for this. If you really wanna help me out that badly it's like, why are you making me switch?

0:26:14 - Jason Snell
It seems like now that they've got more of that stuff, that that's only a matter of time. It feels to me like the iPad connectivity for the Apple watch is gonna be coming, because now the health kit's on there.

0:26:25 - Alex Lindsay
And I think this is where you really see the power of a really large company. They're doing a really hard thing that's gonna cost billions and billions and billions of dollars. They're probably gonna generate a couple hundred patents as they go through it and for a lot of people they're gonna buy that watch because it's the only watch that can do that.

I won't well, you know they're not looking at the designer whether you can pinch or whether you can do anything else, and I think it's as I've done more research around glucose. I think it's much bigger than you should worry about your sugar levels. It's literally just being conscious to what your food is doing to your sugar levels and that's the reason I'm putting a glucose monitor on it just to take a look at it. And I think that when people have relative measurements of that, it's gonna change a lot of it's gonna. I mean, if I was in the food you know, ultra processed food world, I would be super concerned. If it gets closer to the surface, well, why don't you get one?

0:27:16 - Leo Laporte
Because my experience, having worn a monitor and doing before that pinpricks for now five years, is the body is a complex organism. It would be nice if you said gee, I ate that donut and look at my blood spiking, but it's kind of. There's a lot. It's not as obvious as you think. I agree with you, it's gonna be revolutionary. There are athletes now who wear continuous glucose monitors for training purposes. There's lots of reasons to keep track of it. I wish it were as simple as gee, I'm not eating those donuts anymore.

0:27:48 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, most of it is common sense, like you already know. You already know, you absolutely already know.

0:27:54 - Jason Snell

0:27:54 - Leo Laporte
so Look, let's face it sugar is poison and they've been feeding this poison for about 30 years now, and we have a massive obesity problem and this will become obvious to people, I agree.

0:28:05 - Andy Ihnatko
Oh, come on, look at the food pyramid. It wouldn't have made the food pyramid like that with the best experts in the food selling industry. And how do you get better experts than that? It's no answer do you?

0:28:17 - Alex Lindsay
The funny thing is, is that what really opened up? We were talking about it on a forum and someone said well, what I didn't realize is that if I eat white rice, I get a harder hit than if I eat ice cream.

0:28:28 - Leo Laporte
Yeah right, like you know, that's actually the revelation is that, yeah, there are stuff you think is not sugar that is absolutely getting converted to glucose the minute you chew it. And now white rice is one of a bread pasta all the things I like the best, you know. I always thought I was virtuous. I don't like sweets All the best stuff, but all the best stuff is actually carbs. That's the best, yeah, refined carbs Converter right to sugar.

0:28:50 - Alex Lindsay
Chickpea pasta. I'm not the one saying oh God.

0:28:53 - Leo Laporte
I'm sorry, life is too short to eat chickpea pasta so good that is really. I'm sorry. Chickpeas are fine in salad, so let me actually let's take a break. And then I want to get back to this pedipixel article, because they interviewed two of the Apple executives who were responsible for the camera engineering John McCormack, vp Camera Software Engineering. It was one of them, and they explain, I think, in very interesting ways, what Apple was thinking and what you're getting, and it may not be immediately intuitive, you know, but we'll talk about that in a second. That's always fun when the new iPhone is here and nobody has it yet. I'm surprised, jason, that they didn't give you one, were they all?

0:29:42 - Jason Snell
Oh, I am very rarely on the embargo list for the iPhone. I'm a second wave reviewer which is honestly, given that iOS, ipados, tvos, watchos, all shipped yesterday, that's a lot.

0:29:56 - Leo Laporte
We've just gotten started, because that's right, we have to talk about iOS 17, ipados 17.

0:30:00 - Jason Snell
I would have died, leo, if I also had to do embargo reviews of two different, three different, four different phones Like no, no, no. So I hope to get them in the next couple of days and be able to start my work.

0:30:11 - Leo Laporte
And it really. It's sad to me, though, that the real what's really happened is that the YouTube guys have really taken over this, and, I'll be honest, I think it's because they're easier to manipulate than you know, John Syracuse.

0:30:26 - Jason Snell
They've got an audience, though They've got a real audience. John Gruber still got it, matt Panzerino still got it right, like I'm sure, the Austin Mann got it, and like they still have but it's fewer and fewer of those and more and more.

0:30:39 - Leo Laporte
And I think YouTube audience numbers are deceptive. Let's put it that way. Not that they're wrong, but that's not the same as somebody reading an article. I'm sorry.

0:30:53 - Andy Ihnatko
It's also easy. I won't delay the ad anymore. But it's also about who is Justine reaching, who is Marquez reaching, who is Jason reaching, and it's really all a plan of attack. That's why, like, you get kind of weary when you see people like on social media saying, oh God, Jason's got to be pretty upset. I wonder what he did to piss off. No, it's not a merit based system. It's not, you know do not ask, do not try to figure out what the meeting behind the Sphinx's riddles are.

0:31:24 - Jason Snell
And the iPhone audience I think this is the only no one.

0:31:26 - Andy Ihnatko
Of me too.

0:31:26 - Jason Snell
The iPhone audience is so different from any other audience, right, like, yeah, it doesn't bother me at all. Like I said, I'm actually kind of relieved because I have to do my OS stories anyway, which I think are in some ways more important because fewer people do them. But the iPhone audience it's so broad, the demographics are different, they want to reach those in different areas. It's just a different PR plan of attack and they should be right. It should be a different plan of attack than a Mac, a new Mac, like I always get a call when there's a new Mac right, which is very nice. That's a better fit anyway than the iPhone. But you know, it's not like I'm not in their review program, just a tip if you were to sell pink iPhone cables, you might do better.

0:32:04 - Leo Laporte
I'm just saying. I'm just saying.

0:32:06 - Jason Snell
Oh boy boy. Don't even get me started. We have an ad to do. Don't get me started about the colors. I don't like the colors. But later, later, later.

0:32:14 - Andy Ihnatko
Also to be fair, if I work as hard as Justine does and if I were as talented and an on-screen presenter, I would probably do better.

0:32:23 - Leo Laporte
She absolutely earns it. Just because she has signature I Justine, pink. She's gone all in on pink. By the way, she was very pink at the event. You probably could see her a mile away. Pink is the thing Branding we love I Justine. So we're not.

0:32:35 - Jason Snell
Come on, that's what Marques Brownlee could do better. Right, it's just more pink. He needs more pink. He's doing okay.

0:32:42 - Alex Lindsay
I was like in film tools and I came around the corner and she's got like a whole section in film tool in LA.

0:32:47 - Leo Laporte
I know it's amazing In the camera shop. Yeah, the I Justine collab.

0:32:53 - Alex Lindsay
I mean, I think that they you know, Justine and Marques Brownlee and others have really just figured out how to communicate that and package it in a way that it gets out to a lot of folks. But what's funny is that a lot of times the articles that we read are things that inform people like Justine and Marques. That's what they're reading before they sometimes would, before they do a lot of those things. And so those articles still become important from an impact perspective because a lot of creators are looking at those.

0:33:19 - Leo Laporte
Secondarily, yeah, tell that to the people who write the articles and are getting paid a tenth as much. However, I'm only a little bitter, because all these ads are also following Apple over to those guys.

0:33:33 - Alex Lindsay
The form always. You know the form always leads the function. You know there was a lot of great actors in before talkies that couldn't make it. Yeah, like it was like the world changed and they didn't have a good voice.

0:33:47 - Leo Laporte
I'm feeling like one of them right now. Oh, the rain in Spain filed mainly on the plane. Our show today brought you.

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Ok, here is, I think, a really good article, a good interview by Petapixel. This is kind of the deep stuff that I always look for. Of course, they did get an interview with an Apple executive, so Apple definitely gave them the information they wanted. Apple explains what the iPhone 15 camera can and can't do and why. They point out that Apple is very clear that they want to make it simple. They want parents taking pictures of kids who are moving fast or pets or whatever to be able to use the camera on their phones without thinking about it. But of course they also get a lot of interest from creators and photographers who want to use the phone in a more professional way. So Petapixel says Apple has stuck the same general philosophy when it comes to photography. Get out of the way. They're quoting John McCormack, vice president of Camera Software Engineering at Apple. He says it really is, in my mind, all about allowing people to go chase their vision. This goes from the harried parent of a toddler where their vision is. Can I get my kid in the frame as they take their first step all the way through to a pro or a creative who has a very specific artistic vision in mind and wants to get there as quickly as possible.

They're talking now about these dedicated prime lenses. They explain why they can't do it in video. They can only do it in stills because computationally it's just too hard when you're capturing 60 frames a second to do all of that. They talk about log. He says that they will offer LUTs when the phone ships on Friday, which is great. He said that. Petapixel asked him how the phone is choosing exposure when recording in log. We go for a middle ground exposure, says McCormack. When you go into log there's no tone mapping so you can have more precise control over what your exposure is. It's also noted that, while Apple expects the ProRes log encoding to be easy to grade, they will provide LUT profiles to editors in September 22.

0:39:41 - Alex Lindsay
By the way, I don't necessarily agree with what he just said. I just want to make sure hey, we're going to leave it in log. You give you a more precise control is usually the harder thing to do, which is that you need to have a lot to see where your exposures are after the LUT is applied, because the log is going to look all washed out.

0:40:02 - Leo Laporte
So explain to me what log is and what a lookup table does. What are we talking here?

0:40:09 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, so the log is a raw. We have linear in log and so linear is it? Basically is going linear from black to white. So if you think about your curve, that's here, it's going straight up like this A log is going to. Usually it's going to go something like this, like it's going to curve, and what happens is it protects, and oftentimes it can actually be so it's going to go slowly up. It's slowly up here and the curves are so you're both your blacks and your whites. Oftentimes are especially your whites. That's what we're really paying a lot of attention to are protected, because what was just a handful of pixels or light levels are now a very redated. So it's this nice soft curve that goes over, and so that's how some version of that log. And the problem with log is that now they're talking about aces, but the problem with log is really that it is different for everyone, so everybody's version of log. It's not a known thing.

Now, the issue is that you then have a lot.

A lot is a lookup table and what this is is a conversion process that goes from I'm taking from this color space, let's say REC709 or log or whatever to this color space and it's literally, if we think about a curve, when you're looking at a curve in Photoshop that looks like, let's say this this is your input to your output.

It says, if it's straight, like this, it says the input equals the output, like it's just we're not making any change. But if you took your curve in Photoshop and pulled it up a little bit, it means my input's here, but it's coming out brighter than it was before, and so that curve there what a lot is is doing that curve in 3D. So it basically builds what we call a cube, which is and it can be 33 points or 66 points. But the idea is that you're pulling these little control points in 3D where X, y and Z represents RGB, and you're basically making that conversion from I have a value coming in and a value and that conversion's gonna be the value going out. And so the LUT is the lookup table and it's just a pile of text. It's literally just the transforms at every point. Let's say, let's say a lot of us work with 33 point systems for live and in that 33 points it's just making those distinctions Anyway.

0:42:33 - Leo Laporte
So it's like a parametric equalizer on your sound. You've got all these bars. You say, well, turn it up on this color value, turn it down on this color value, et cetera.

0:42:42 - Alex Lindsay
What are you turning up and down the saturation the hue.

No, you're changing. It's not saturation or hue. Well, it can be, but really what you're doing there is that affects it, but you're moving the RGB pixels when a RGB value comes in at this level. I wanted to go out at this level and that can include things that will change your contrast, your saturation, depending on what the LUTs are, but it's really converting from one color space to another, and so basically, it's the conversion between these different color spaces. So, if you have log, for a while, YouTubers were using log as the final thing and everything looks washed out.

0:43:19 - Leo Laporte
It looks washed out, right.

0:43:20 - Alex Lindsay
It wasn't because they got all these cameras. They didn't know what that was, they didn't know how to fix it, and now we've gotten much better at having there's lots of tools and there's lots of LUTs that you can download, that work inside of that, and so then you can and you can build your own LUT. So, for instance, you can take something in log, take it into resolve, build a color profile that is that's what I want my shots to look like and save that as a cube file, which is going to be your LUT. That's going to now convert all the footage to the same thing.

So once you find something, you like you can make it that way. You can buy ones, but where you can make your own look by doing those things. So you do want basic LUT. So you, basically you want some basic lookup tables so that you don't that the average person doesn't have to think about it.

0:44:03 - Leo Laporte
So you're gonna have so that's important. When you shoot in log, you don't you? Oh, it's like shooting in raw you always will have to post process. You're never gonna just Some people don't, but you should. You want to. You always should pro-process process. It's my understanding that one of the main points of shooting in log, besides control, is that you get a broader dynamic range because of it. Is that right?

0:44:24 - Alex Lindsay
It's because of this curve, because what's happening is is that, if you again, if we look at this, if we look at our curve and we look at it from the side and we see this, our value, when we go up like this instead of going like this, see, there's a ton of values now that are sitting in the bright range because it's not moving very much as the inputs go across.

So, as these come in, it's not just going straight out, they're coming in and there are lots of gradations. Now you need to shoot in 10-bit to do this, because otherwise, when you stretch this back out to represent the HDR or whatever that you're doing, or when you stretch it back out to regular color, if you do it in 8-bit, you end up with no data. So the first thing you have to do is be able to capture in 10-bit to actually make log truly work. I presume the iPhone does this. Yes, yeah, okay and so anyway. So by having this curve go across a long distance of inputs to have a very small change in outputs, what you're able to do is you're saving up all of that.

You're getting more information and then you have to choose what to use, right. This doesn't clip up here, because it's that soft knee or that curve. Well, that's the other thing.

0:45:41 - Leo Laporte
And actually a pedipixel. Asked him that because one of the reasons you might use log is to maximize the dynamic range and to be able to get more highlights without overexposure, without clipping it.

0:45:53 - Alex Lindsay
Well, that's the big reason that you want log is so that you have that data later, so that you can always stretch it out and throw it away. But you'd like to keep it there if you can, and so the problem again with it is that if you often want to look at your LUT because if you only look at log when you're doing the exposure, it may be really hard to get back to that in the LUT that you end up using. So 709 may not hold on to that data or may be really hard to hang on to that data. So usually I prefer when shooting to.

Well, a lot of times with shooting I have what's called false color, so I'm turning that on and taking a look at it and what that does is it's a LUT, but it's a really, really harsh LUT that tells me these things are going to black and these things are going to be overexposed. And I'll flip that on while I'm working just to see whether I'm, depending on what I'm doing, you're capturing what you need, so I can capture that, but then I'm usually looking in a LUT. Now, oftentimes I'm looking at a LUT. That's usually a PQ 2020 or not PQ 2020. Yeah, pq is what I usually work in, or HLG, but 709 is the most restrictive because it's a much smaller box, and this is a perfect example of why Apple has these automatic settings.

0:47:09 - Leo Laporte
So you don't think about this.

0:47:10 - Alex Lindsay
Well, here's the worst part. I just explained to you all these things and all the things that I wear on a camera. And there were a couple of times when I went to my kids you know their recitals or whatever and I just picked up my iPhone and hit record and I recorded the wrong thing, like it was just nuclear, you know, and it was, and it just didn't come out correctly. And what I thought to myself is Apple should not be in the business of making a complicated camera, put all the features into it. But when I pick up my phone and I hit the camera app, I need Apple to just do all the things that shoot the best. Even you and shoot yeah, yeah, even I make mistakes. I think currently the Apple camera has too many buttons like, too many features. Like when I pick it up, I need more of it to be I get into the states in the phone, like I'll hit something. I'll get into a state in the phone that I don't know why it remembers it and it goes back to that.

0:47:54 - Jason Snell
It doesn't automatically go back to the whether it remembers it or not, actually in the camera settings.

0:48:01 - Alex Lindsay
And so I've gotten into these, into a couple of states there, and I've also get into where I hit something and I don't even know what it is, but I end up in the state where I can't get back to photo video. You know like it's. You know and I've been in that state, it's the promo and you're like where am I, what am I doing here?

Yeah, you're just like, oh you know, and so so the. So I think that Apple, what I really think is really interesting about the new phone is really the interaction between and I know this is my, this is my pick, but the interaction between the black magic camera and the phone camera, because I think that what Apple needs to do is allow the black magic camera to take advantage of or other cameras, whether it's film make or others. Keep on going down the path and give them all the subsystems to do everything that you want but take. But you almost feel like Apple has to go to a simple phone app to say, if you're going to open up the phone app, it just kind of shoot great photos.

0:48:50 - Leo Laporte
Maybe that's what the solution is is to have Apple's app be simple and use film make or something like the black magic camera and so you just know. Or Apple, as you said, Apple could offer to.

0:49:03 - Alex Lindsay
Well, and that was hard to say when, when film make had a subscription, that was non-trivial, you know, for a lot of folks to pay. It's different now. The black magic has a free Black magic is free.

0:49:13 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, so it's free. But what is their, what is their value for them, what they get?

0:49:17 - Alex Lindsay
get you to use Market impact. Oh my gosh, yeah, market impact. I mean it. It opens directly and resolve, it goes to the black magic, it goes to the black magic cloud. It it does, it's, it is the. I mean I don't, I know, I'm just going to say I'll talk about this at the end of the show, but what I will say is that the black magic camera did a level of Sherlock-ing that that even Apple didn't do with Sherlock, I mean.

0:49:39 - Leo Laporte
So so the smart thing, if you want all these features is use just don't mess with the Apple app and use a third party app, like the black magic app, and that's where you do the log shooting and all that stuff, that'd be my preference.

0:49:50 - Alex Lindsay
I think that if Apple, if Apple keeps on, I mean the problem is putting it into that when I I really do want to be able to go to a, to a complicated camera and say I want all the control.

Or I want to go to the iPhone camera and just say I want, I don't want you to, I don't, I don't want to think about it. If I open this, this app, I want to know that it's just going to take good pictures and it's all going to be exposed relatively well for family stuff. And then, if I really want to go crazy, I want to go to another app that I'd rather have Apple build features, like build all the subsystems that support those features, but not necessarily feel like they have to put them into, or at least have an advanced and a simple mode inside of their own phone app that just says keep this simple and turn off all of the options. You know I can set it in preferences or something, but have it, do auto exposure and do all the things that I need to do, because, again, it's done a couple things a couple times that I, I, well if it happens to you, I imagine it happens to normal people even more.

It might be that it happens to me because I fiddle with it, because you're messing with the damn thing.

0:50:52 - Leo Laporte
But not people, you know, mess with it. We should mention that Apple has updated Final Cut Pro motion compressor and iMovie to support log encoded video on the iPhone. So you can use resolve with a black magic camera or you can use Apple's tools and they should understand it, yeah, and it's great.

0:51:13 - Alex Lindsay
I mean that's been, it's been getting back and forth in and out of those apps has been a little bit of challenge and I think Apple's really refining that. But this is I think we've seen it coming but this and probably the next camera, like the next years, really puts this, these cameras, into. I could starting to really think I could shoot a film in that, we know, with these Well, and that's one of the things I think they were going after, still photographers to I'm, I'm, I'm thinking I'm.

0:51:36 - Leo Laporte
Why am I carrying a bag with seven lenses If I can get all those focal lengths on the phone? Now, I'm going to try before I decide that the field isn't the same.

0:51:46 - Alex Lindsay
I mean, I definitely feel like resolution and depth of field and other things are not.

0:51:51 - Leo Laporte
I brought my like a Q2 with me back east because I wanted some really good shots of you know mom and their house and you know you know the funny thing it's?

0:52:05 - Alex Lindsay
for me it's it's a location. I don't like to use my SLR for the number one. The only reason I don't like to use my SLR is that it doesn't save location data Right, and I search everything by when I was somewhere and where I was and I missed my camera 5D mark for it would.

0:52:20 - Leo Laporte
It had a GPS built into it, but none of the Sony's do, and it's frustrating as hell, I really it's like, it's it.

0:52:25 - Alex Lindsay
I just feel like I'm shoot. I mean I know that sounds crazy, but I'm shooting into a black hole when I do that, because I just don't know when I'll find those photos again.

0:52:32 - Leo Laporte
I can pair via Bluetooth I can pair the Leica with my phone and it will then feed it into the Leica, but I know it's just too much work, like what I know is if I pick up my phone and I walk around with my phone, I'm going to take pictures and I'm never have to think about it again, and so I find that you know some more issues that you might be interested in.

Photographers might. This is all from this great pedapixel interview. Photographers might want to know why last year Apple limited the default settings to 12 megapixels, this year Limited to 24 megapixels, despite the sensor in fact being a 48 megapixel sensor shooting in heath. The files generated there aren't that large. Photographers might think they should just shoot these higher resolution heath files whenever they want extra detail, but there are reasons to keep using Apple defaults.

Mccormick says you get a little more dynamic range in the 24 megapixel photos because when shooting 24, we shoot 12 high and 12 low. In fact, we shoot multiple of those and we then pick and merge. So there's a you're basically bracketing between the 12 high and 12 low, yeah, and then the 48 is an extended dynamic range versus a high dynamic range, which basically just limits the amount of processing. So that's interesting. You wouldn't necessarily know that because just in a little bit of processing time available in the 24 megapixel, we can get a bit more dynamic range into deep fusion. So I'll finish this and you can say something. So when you end up with what, so what you end up with in the 24, it's a bit of a Goldilocks moment. You get all the dynamic range, extra dynamic range, from the 12 and the detail transfer that comes in from the 48. Also, they're worried about shutter lag. Photographers will get zero shutter lag shooting at 24, which means which you may not get at 48.

0:54:20 - Jason Snell
They have built a whole new pipeline. It's interesting where we got. We talked about last year about the 48 and like what does it do? And you can shoot raw with it and you know, and then there's a pause, and or you can just shoot the regular and it bends the pixels and so you go down to 12 and it was fine, right, like you could get a 48 out of it if you shot raw. But like it was clearly like not why they were building it, they sort of that first generation. Last year it was really meant to primarily be binned and to use those pixels to generate a better 12 megapixel image.

And this year they built this whole pipeline where they're gathering some data in 12 megapixel mode, some data in 48 megapixel mode, building a 24 megapixel image out of it. You know so many captures at many different resolutions. And then that's also why they've got these new new modes, that they are zoom modes between 1x and 2x. Right, it used to be sort of like 2x was the center of the sensor, 1x was the whole sensor and that was it. And this pipeline now you can stop basically anywhere. They've got presets for different focal lengths, but basically anywhere between 1x and 2x, you stop and it's going to use that portion of the sensor at you know of the 48 megapixel sensor and run it through its whole pipeline and generate a 24 megapixel image. So they built so when you're between 1x and 2x, they built this whole system to get a really super optimized image out at 24 megapixels, even though you know you're not you're shooting with a 48 megapixel, but you're not. You're also shooting with the 12 mode and, like they, it's amazing to see how much more complexity goes into the shot now than it did last year Because they built this whole.

It's like the software for the 48 megapixel sensor kind of wasn't there last year and it is now plus, now you can shoot a Heath at 48, which you couldn't do before, you could only shoot a raw. So if you're somebody who is like I, really want the extra detail here, you can do that without having to post, process a raw file. That's enormous. You can get a yeah.

0:56:29 - Alex Lindsay
Can you lock it to 48?

0:56:32 - Jason Snell
Yeah, in fact there's a new control in the camera app. It's a toggle you turn on there like extended formats. It's hard to talk about it because it's sometimes it's resolution and sometimes it's format and it's kind of all both together. It's a floor wax and a dessert topping. But basically you turn on this option and in the camera app you'll get a little toggle and you can set it and if you tap and hold, you can choose what which toggle it is, and you can choose between Heath max, which is a Heath at 48, raw max, which is a raw at 48, or raw 12, which will give you a raw using their pipe Line for the bend pixels, and you can turn those on and off or toggle between them at will.

0:57:15 - Alex Lindsay
I just couldn't find. On the last operating system, or at least the last time I tried it, I kind of just gave up. On 48. I was really excited about it for photogrammetry and I just couldn't get it to not automatically go somewhere, like I get too close to an object or I do something else and I just switches lenses and then it loses it. And I was just like, okay, here's the deal, I need you to stay on the same lens, same lens, 48 megapixel, and I will move the camera, like you know. And I couldn't get it to do that. I couldn't get it. It was so frustrating I just I gave up. I was like I'm tired of being angry, I'm going to go do something else.

0:57:43 - Jason Snell
It's super telling that it used to be like no, no, no, macro mode is automatic, we just flip you into macro mode. And users were already like, no, let me tell you when I want macro mode or not. And this year it's like seven different lenses, one of which is macro mode Like, yes, macro mode is one of the modes that I might choose to be in. So they really it is. It's funny. It's like they built the 48 megapixel sensor in last year and we're like, yeah, we don't know quite what we're going to do with it, and this year they totally know what they're doing with it.

0:58:19 - Alex Lindsay
Well, hopefully, hopefully, I can lock it in, because I almost wrote an application with chatGPT and all things. I almost wrote an application that just was like here's the. I just lock it on 48. Like, just use this lens, lock it on 48. Do not change ever, like I don't care and all I need to do is add it to my phone. I just don't.

0:58:37 - Andy Ihnatko
I don't need you to do anything other than just give me a 48 megapixel image, and it was just and you're kind of spot on with the most interesting parts of this conversation that Peter paid a pixel hi-hat with McCormick was to say explicitly about. Well, we're trying to align between, like the majority of our users who just want to press the red button and get a beautiful picture, but also creating a platform that people like you are going to try to push to the limits and use it as a really full featured camera. So he's saying explicitly that there is many times that we decide to pull back and say you know what. We're going to leave that as a third party opportunity for developers. The developers Exploit the hardware in ways that we don't think would be necessary. That would be good. That would fit things that would be confusing for consumers. But make sure that it's that the the development process is there so that Alex Lindsay can create the shut up. Do what I tell you 48 or go to hell.

0:59:30 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, well, and I think that the problem with them adding too many of those features into the iPhone. There's two problems with the. There's a balance, right. They're that you want to be able to see those things. The problem with adding too many of those features into the photos app is that it eats into those specialty companies that want to build something that takes full advantage of your hardware, because they don't their. Their market gets smaller as you make that photo Bigger and it also is more confusing to use. So I just feel like Apple could, at this point, really Pair back on that. They won't, because you can't take features away, but but I feel like they. I Would love for them to stop adding things to their own photo system and allow third parties to build up more of a. You know, take more advantage of the platform, because I think that they've made the.

I personally think that the iPhone app is too Complicated, that the photo app is too complicated, but yet not enough. Like it's. It's gotten into this world where there's too many buttons and but I still don't have the control that I was asking for, and so maybe this will be the new. I mean, I'll have to test it, but it's, and it works with it. The older phone too, right, jason? Like it's just iOS 17 that's giving you that, that control.

1:00:33 - Jason Snell
Yeah, I was 17 will work on the on the last year's pro phone With those choices. Obviously there's more stuff baked into the camera system on the 15 and the 15 pro, then on the 14 pro. They I, I asked Apple about this and they basically said, like cuz, because it would be easy to look at the 14 pro and say, well, wait a second, that's got a 48 megapixel. Is it doing the same pipeline? And their answer is no. That they view. The 15 and 15 pro is having a different camera system that does some different processing.

1:01:02 - Alex Lindsay
But some of the stuff like choosing between a heaf or a raw or a raw in 12 megapixels is Covered on the 14 pro as well and when you really think about it, this phone, like between stereo, 120 millimeter and all of the processing that it's doing its potential, you know it's one of the most complicated, complicated cameras by itself. That's.

1:01:23 - Leo Laporte
you know, that's out there yeah so should people just forget shooting in 48, or I mean.

1:01:29 - Alex Lindsay
No, I mean. So here's the deal. I don't think that 48 makes a lot of sense for most people. If I could lock it in which I'm gonna now test, after talking to Jason, I just gave up months ago or whatever, or a year ago If I could lock it for photogrammetry for those of us who do photogrammetry it's absolutely necessary because the phone, all that, all the computational photography, breaks her that off. Yeah, you cannot have it. Do anything. I need the picture that the lens song, you know, and I, and if I change anything in a high area specialized use.

I was. I mean, you know like it's. It's now becoming more and more of something that people are doing as they get ready for AR and VR and everything else. We use it a lot and I know it sounds like a specialized use, but it's only specialized because the tools are still a little hard to use, or their or their, their business model is weird, or or something. Because the idea that you could take like when I'm 3d printing something Oftentimes I will take, do photogrammetry.

I'll just take a bunch of photos, like 30 photos, of the thing that I'm gonna build, an apparatus to hold that comes in, I set the scale and now I can model around it in my in like cinema 4d, I can model around it and now I know exactly what I can. Everything fits to it, you know, rather than making measurements and so. But it's and and it's really not that much work. I'm not doing much technically. I'm taking a bunch of photos at a certain angle and then I throw them into a box and I say make me a 3d model, and 3d model pops out the other end. So it's not so, and as these tools are getting easier and easier and easier, and apples building those tools as well.

So right now, photogrammetry no longer is something someone has to figure out the math for. It is literally a library that is sitting in the phone that that people can be grabbing on to. So I think that we know it went from us being specialized to us using it All the time. Is there just pre-vis? So, jason, I'm looking at what you pasted into discord is that your recommendation for how you should shoot?

1:03:22 - Jason Snell
Oh no, what I paste in Discord is the pop-up when you tap and hold when you, when you turn on the extended settings option in the camera app, you you Get to choose whether you shoot in any of these by default and then it's a toggle so you choose heaps max or raw max or whatever, which is great.

If you're somebody who's in a scenario where you're looking at the settings and you're looking at the settings and you're looking at the settings, you know where you want the extra detail of the 48 megapixel camera, for whatever reason, right you can, you can just say yes, turn it on now. And on the Iowa 16, it was just raw. You turned on raw on a 14 pro and you got a fra 48 megapixel image. That was enormous, right, there's like 100 megabytes. And now you get a. You could shoot a heath max at 48 and it's it's like a tenth the size, fifth the size, and it's still a 48 megapixel image. You turn that off and you go back into Apple's pipeline, which on the 14, is gonna be a 12 megapixel image and on the 15 it's gonna be that 24, where they're doing the bracketing at 12 and the res and you know the color data or whatever from the 48 and they make their magic 24 and so this is like I just did this with my keyboard.

1:04:31 - Alex Lindsay
I'm just taking pictures down on my desk. This is the problem that I had it, I just put it. I put max on it. You know, I held down, I Still it's still taking auto switches, it still auto switching to to make a pixels.

Well, yeah, to macro or whatever, but it's auto switching instead of like I just want it to not Give me any other choices. Use that lens, give me 48. So still, I'm locking it to it and I'm still getting. You know, I'm still getting the same problem, you know. So I haven't I pushed down, I held down, I get, I selected raw max and it's still shifting lenses, which means it's shifting. It's. You know, it's no, what? Yeah, so anyway, the same problem.

1:05:19 - Leo Laporte
Don't be an Alex.

1:05:22 - Alex Lindsay
Well, it's just I, just you know there's gotta be something.

1:05:24 - Jason Snell
I mean literally.

1:05:25 - Alex Lindsay
I would say things, if they just if they put out 40, if I'm just putting it out there for all of our listeners If someone created something that just said just 48, just call it just 48 and it just does 48.

1:05:36 - Leo Laporte
Then you do that for your photograph and dollars and you never have to change your settings, just 48. Well, in fact, that's what they say in this interview with petapixel is we're counting on third-party developers to add. You know, these, these features that we don't. We just don't want to make our app too complicated. Is there? Are there? I mean, look, I don't. Is there a recommended standard setting? Should use heaf max to get the 5 megapixels 24, 5, 5 megabyte, 24 megapixel Shots. Is that the one to choose To or?

1:06:13 - Jason Snell
what you choose is don't choose heaf max, don't, don't even turn on that feature and you're gonna get the 24 megapixel. Regular heaf max is A 48. It's basically saying don't put it through your pipeline, give me, grab the 48 and then process that as you would any other heaf, but at 48, and then and save it out. No, what that's a, that's a pro feature, basically it. Without that, they're gonna do the on the 15th.

1:06:38 - Leo Laporte
They're gonna do that super resolution, 24, which is what normal people like me want, right.

1:06:44 - Jason Snell
Yes yeah that's what you want, cuz they're gonna do the bracketing on the, on the 12 megapixel sensor shots that they do when you take that one picture, and then they're gonna do get other data from the 48 and they're gonna blend it all together using that pipeline that Generates sweater mode and all the other things that they've got, like in the special sauce that they they cook up and then they output a 24. That is you know from multiple shots, and sometimes they're processing it in the background after you shoot it, so you can go on to capture another shot, but, like until you're done, because they're doing so much processing. It's pretty amazing what's going on behind the scenes, if you ever had that moment where you shoot something and then you immediately want to share it and it makes you wait. That's why it's actually it doesn't actually have the photo yet. It needs to finish processing it before it can give you a final.

1:07:32 - Alex Lindsay
I Just want to say don't, don't make the app. I figured it out, so it's the little. It's the little. In the new one, at least, in 17, it's the little flower in the lower corner. I don't even know what that is. It's back, oh what it's macro mode. Oh, so you just turn it off? Yeah, turn it off, and you set it to max.

1:07:53 - Jason Snell
It's a setting. You have to turn on the setting to have the macro mode switch. But once you turn it on, then you you have the ability to just go. No, no flower, not now.

1:08:02 - Alex Lindsay
Yes, so so if you turn on for the max raw or Hive and you or he for whatever, and you turn off the macro mode, you will get it's.

1:08:14 - Jason Snell
It appears to be 48 every time because macro mode doesn't use the main camera. Macro mode is using the why, why, and so it's not a, it's not a 48 megapixel sensor if this all sounds familiar, by the way, this is a sense.

1:08:30 - Leo Laporte
I mean there isn't that much difference between the iPhone 14 pro and the iPhone 15 pro effect. According to the pedipixel Chris Nichols doing, by the way, an excellent Review he is one of the people who did get the iPhone day of and has been shooting with it ever since. He says this is the same Camera with with two differences. One, you've got the 120 millimeter land, the equivalent of 120 millimeter lens, which is Using that, that, those prisms, to do that extreme zoom. He says he likes that for street and the coatings. And he says although Apple says these new phones have updated coatings, I didn't notice much of any difference between the pro 14 pro and 15 pro.

You know, in terms of flaring and so forth, it's, it's not particularly better. So there are, but there are some things to think about. He says I was skeptical about the 28 and 35 millimeter quote lenses. He says because they're digital crops, they're not really lenses, don't, don't kid yourself on that. But he said, despite all that, the the image quality was very good and it's nice to have the compositional help. So, but you might not want to necessarily set it to those.

1:09:47 - Jason Snell
Another important factor here is you might say well, wait a second. If that's the case, because it's true, it's a 48 megapixel sensor. So when you're zoomed in more from 1x, it's not using the whole sensor, it's still using. It's still not a. It's not a digital zoom, right, it's an optical zoom in the sense that it's still using a sensor. But what you don't want to do is just take the full thing and then crop it later, because the pipeline is based on your zoom at the time.

That's always get a better if you zoom in halfway, so you're at 1.5x and you take a picture, versus taking it at 1x and then cropping it. The one you zoomed in on will look better because it goes through Apple's pipeline Knowing that that's the desired output, and it generates a 24 megapixel image based on that zoom level between 1x and 2x. So you should not try that out with Apple's system right.

1:10:40 - Leo Laporte
So there is a difference there for a reason the cop that the pipeline, the computational pipeline, is different from the 14 to the 15 and improved yes, but one of the things he called a different system, yeah one of the things he says is that the faux K is much better. The actual, actual, shallow depth of field is most convincing We've seen on a smart phone so far. He says it does really well with, you know, things like halo, hair halo and so forth. So so that's good. That's the portrait mode, basically.

Strange halos around the face and issues with wispy bits of hair handled much more realistically than we've seen before, should note, the 120 millimeter lens does not give a very shallow DOF on its own depth of field on its own. So that's. That's good to know. You might want to use that portrait mode and get that faux K. I love that. I'm gonna use faux K from now on. I love that. So this is a good review. It's worth. It's worth reading. He's a pro photographer so he's getting great images. I.

1:11:41 - Andy Ihnatko
Kind of wish I would go into a little bit more detail when they give these presentations, because there's a lot of stuff that I kind of flagged, like when I was taking notes during the during the event, saying, okay, so you're saying that you're doing it's. You have seven different virtual lenses, so are those like click stops when you pinch and squeeze to zoom in and zoom out? Is it just cropping or you're actually doing something significant to make me think that, hey, I want to keep this at 40 millimeters for this, for this test, I want to give it to and and this. That's why I guess I'm to answer my own question, that's. That's probably why they make executives and engineers like this available to Experts, like the team at Peter pixel, to actually get this information out there. But there's, I thought there was some misses. There's some missings, information in the presentation that needed to be in there, nichols says.

1:12:32 - Leo Laporte
In my opinion, the real big change is the new 24 megapixel heaf files. You can only get these images with the main camera, whatever crop you're using 24, 20 or 35. However, these files make full use of the HDR color space and combine a 48 megapixel file using apples Photonic engine to give it effectively double the megapixels over the previous iPhone 14 camera. The main significance is this new file type. Majority of users will be shooting this and the extra detail is absolutely noticeable. If the intended home for a finished image is social media, maybe the benefits will be minor. But for anywhere where you want to crop and tighter display on a larger screen, zoom in while viewing the file, the advantage is Clear.

If you're doing pixel peeping, in other words going forward, I think many users will appreciate the benefits of this new format and they'll get these three different fovs to use, so that you so it sounds like he's saying you should use the 24 megapixel heaf setting right, unless you want bokeh or foke, Then you'll use portrait. I I actually. Jason. What do you think of the new action button?

1:13:43 - Jason Snell
I really like it. I feel like there's more that could be done there, but in my experience, like first off, I am one of those people who always left my iPhone in silent, so for me Doesn't matter, you're not using it was useless right, and now you can just do that in control center, like you could on the iPad.

You can just put it in silent and then use that button for anything else. So if you use it for camera, not only doesn't bring up the camera, but it is in that mode. It is also the shutter button for the camera, so you can just leave your finger there.

1:14:10 - Leo Laporte
That's what I think I'm gonna do. I think I'm gonna make it be the launch camera and shutter, although it's in the wrong place for the shutter button. It's on the right, yeah, but it's a thing.

1:14:20 - Jason Snell
If you're just trying to be quick, right yeah, leave your finger there. But it's the only case where the that button press does something else. Otherwise it's just in this mode where there is a you know press and hold and it makes a haptic and then it kicks off something that you said. But Look, I mean for anybody who will always left it either on or off, that ring silence, which was completely useless. And if you do want that, it's still there. You can't feel for its exact position. But if you toggle it, you can tell, based on the haptic, whether you're going in or coming out of silent.

1:14:56 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, I also think it's a big positive move that it's no longer the ring silent switch. It is a but a function button that you assign a specific task to. Because I think that to this day, they're people who are surprised when their phone starts, their iPhone starts making noises in the middle of the theater or the middle of a live production, because, hey, I had this thing switch to silent. No, no, that's not the silent button. It, it will, it will. It will quiet certain things, but not all things, and that took a lot of people by by by surprise.

I also have to correct admit that I said something wrong last in the, in the heat of the moment. I forgot. I forgot that the I said that he's gonna be great to be able to attach like shutter actions, to like that function button. Yeah, I forgot. I forgot in the moment that, yeah, the volume buttons forever have acted as another shutter button. Yeah, and a lot of accessories also take advantage of that. But I'd love, I'd love to see what can be done with this now that we have a dedicated button, not just a simply convenience feature. But this can be you, this can be something that is has the the behavior of a shutter button, including sets. Set up a target for focus and exposure lock targeting exposure. Then recompose and complete the and complete the button press in order to take the picture. There's, there's, there's, there's a lot to love about that.

1:16:11 - Leo Laporte
Did you love the action button animation, that the setting? I haven't seen it yet, I've only seen videos of it, but looked pretty, pretty darn cool.

1:16:18 - Jason Snell
Yeah, they went it's extra right like they did. It's like animated and stuff and they've done. They do this occasionally now where they Really like a new feature and so they want to show it off and so it's got a lot of extra. Uh, you know, remember like they used to? There was one time where they did an update with the trackpad gestures on the Mac where suddenly it was like all movies of all the gestures.

Wow this is a lot, but they they thought it would be helpful. Yeah, so it's. It's. You know, you're swiping through and they show the various things and there are little effects going on in the background. But but you know, andy's right, the the potential here. It's literally what can you think of? Because it does shortcuts. And you might be thinking I mean, yeah, nerdy shortcuts are gonna happen where it's like I press the button and my shortcut detects what context I'm currently in and then does a different thing based on the context. That's true, but iOS 17 also added app shortcuts, which are basically pre-baked shortcuts for functions in individual apps presented by the app developer. So you could set it to shortcut and then just go to your favorite app and it'll already have shortcuts to do tasks in that app and you can map those to the button as well. So it doesn't have to be a super nerdy thing for it to still be useful.

1:17:28 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I wanna take a little break because we have so much more to talk about, but before I do anything else, about the iPhone 15?, before we move to iOS 17,. You did a very long review, jason. I'm glad you did. Don't mention it, we'll talk about it. Anything else, it's a nice phone. It's a nice phone.

1:17:47 - Jason Snell
Colors you don't like the colors.

1:17:48 - Leo Laporte
Jason, you said you hate the colors.

1:17:50 - Jason Snell
Yeah, well, the 15, I mean again, I just really quickly. I don't know what's going on with Apple's feelings about color. It's hard to believe that the company that released those brightly colored M1i Max is the same company that released these things, because the pro phones, I mean, I know they learned their lesson, I guess, with that blue and white G3 back in the day that, like pros, don't want color in their workspaces for whatever reason. But so those are four shades of gray, right, you can get in any color you want, as long as it's a shade of gray. And then the. I kind of feel like with the 15, what they did was they did this new ion deposit glass process that somebody, you know traveling salesman, came in and said here's a way to color glass and it's super light and subtle and all and almost like an Easter egg that only got dipped for you know, they didn't get the full three minutes, it only got like one minute in there and so it's all pale. It's a cool effect and on the camera bump it's actually it looks really nice, but it's like they're barely colorful.

My wife was buying, shopping for her iPhone 15 and unbidden, not knowing that I was ranting about this on a podcast. She was like these colors are terrible. I'm like, yeah, they are terrible. And look, I know that not everybody likes bright colors. That's fine. What bugs me is that if you like bright colors, you can't buy one because they just didn't make them. You got black and then you got pale green, pale pink, pale yellow, pale blue they're all super pale. Or you can go to the pro phones and get various shades of gray.

I just I have a hard time believing, like I said, that this is the company that made the M1 iMac, which again came in silver. If you don't like colors, you can get boring silver. It's fine. You can be boring if you want to, but it was also fun. And now I'm starting to worry that the next iMacs are gonna come out and it's gonna be back to like midnight and starlight and be super boring. So I don't know what's going on with Apple's color. Who's in charge of color at Apple? Like Mike Hurley and I call them the color the colors are. Who is the colors are? What has happened to the colors are?

1:19:48 - Leo Laporte
Has the colors are been deposed, lisa bought the black pro and I got the natural, because I just want natural titanium. I think that's probably the color to get, but yeah, it's gray, it's a gray.

1:20:02 - Alex Lindsay
I got blue titanium, which again is just a bluish dark gray, do we think that it all has to do with the titanium itself, because it's getting color to bind to?

1:20:11 - Jason Snell
the titanium is a yeah, it's the vapor thing that they did with the Apple watch. Yeah, I think that probably it's a hard thing to get. A super colorful titanium shell Doesn't explain the 15, though right, doesn't explain those the anodized aluminum 15s with the glass back. They have been colorful before and they just decided this year they would not be, and it's just a bummer, because sometimes you like a little color and giving people the choice is fun, and I get that. Apple likes to be no fun on their pro products for whatever reason, but on their non-pro products they're like no still no fun, is it possibly?

1:20:45 - Leo Laporte
that maybe they're gonna do you know, next year an S version in effect, that will have color. They've done that before, haven't they?

1:20:53 - Jason Snell
I mean that's the argument is that it's a style thing and they're like, yeah, this year pastels are in and next year we'll go bright again.

1:20:59 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it's fashion baby?

1:21:01 - Jason Snell
Well, I guess I don't know.

1:21:02 - Alex Lindsay
It may be also just looking at behavior, because I know that for me I get gray, gray, gray, gray, gray, gray, gray, gray.

1:21:08 - Jason Snell
Well, that's why you're a pro.

1:21:09 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, you're a pro, you're a pro, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1:21:12 - Jason Snell
I'm actually happy with the natural titanium because it'll match my watch.

1:21:16 - Leo Laporte
It'll match my watch band. Titanium is a very dull. It's kind of a gunmetal gray.

1:21:22 - Alex Lindsay
It's not attractive, but I think the issue is that all of our apps are all gray, you know. So we look at them because and the reason that they're gray is so that the color doesn't affect our experience of color and so we all, so all of the apps we look at all day, are gray, and I think that that impacts how we, I think it definitely impacts what we buy around us, because you always want to, you don't want, like my, your whole office tends to be gray because you don't want it to be again affecting that process, and so I think that's why a lot of times, you get used to that as a user and then pros just tend to not want to have, they just tend not to buy a lot of color.

1:22:01 - Jason Snell
I'm not kidding when I say that 25 years ago Apple really got on the color train with the iMac and they immediately put out the blue and white G3 and the iBook. And I seriously think what happened in the late 90s is the pros pushed back on the blue and white color scheme because they're like I do color especially the pro publishers in that part I do important color work. I can't have this blue in my face. It completely changes how I view the color on my screen. Now how much of that it was real and how much of that was just people saying no, no, it must be beige, but there is some truth to it.

And then with laptops, I really believe after they did the tangerine iBook and the blue iBook, I think they realized that people who are taking a computer out in the world didn't want it to stand out, that they wanted it to sort of just kind of gracefully slide into wherever they were. And as a result I think they institutionalized that in their culture and that they've just decided pro products and laptops should just be monochrome and that's just how they should be. And I don't love it, but I understand it.

1:23:04 - Leo Laporte
I actually am excited about one thing about the action button. It's not available yet, but at some point they're gonna make it trans, it have it be translate, which I think if you travel, would be very interesting, don't you know that's not available until later this year. And then the other one is great is voice memo, because that we're back to the day when you can hold up something and press a button Right from 20s Voice to self yeah.

1:23:27 - Jason Snell
Diane, I'm entering I just purchased my new iPhone and I'm entering a new piece.

1:23:32 - Alex Lindsay
The voice memo for me. A lot of times I'll be thinking about something, and it is a little bit of a process to go find the app and everything else, and what I wanna do is just say I just wanna say a bunch of things that are in my head right now and then.

1:23:42 - Leo Laporte
I wanna walk away. I'll probably use it. I have it on my Apple watch. I have drafts which will let you record a memo and then textify it, but I also have just pressed record. I actually kind of think I actually replaced that with a voice memo button, so I can do that on my watch now, but I think it'll be nice to have that on the phone. So I don't, maybe we should put four or five of those on their buttons.

1:24:04 - Andy Ihnatko
It would be nice to have that hooked up to Google Lens Just asking what the hell am I looking at? Whether it's translate this thing for me or identify this thing for me, or what is this song? It's the fact that I'm out of the habit for Apple. It's like, hey, here's a button and we're not. We're gonna let you tell us what it should be for, we're not gonna make this change for you that you have to then sort of deal with.

1:24:26 - Leo Laporte
Because it supports shortcuts. I suppose you could have a shortcut that launches Lens, yeah.

1:24:31 - Jason Snell
Yeah, yeah, maybe even an app shortcut that's supplied by the app developer.

1:24:35 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, wouldn't that be cool. So now I'm gonna have to decide what do I use it for? Cause, now that you're right, I remember I can use the volume button to take a picture, so I don't really need it to be the camera button. All right, let's take a break. Let's talk about the new operating systems. They all came out yesterday. Have you updated yet to iOS 17, ipad, os 17, watchos? What is it Not? What do they call it, watchos?

1:24:59 - Jason Snell

1:25:00 - Leo Laporte
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1:30:12 - Andy Ihnatko
IOS 17 is here.

1:30:18 - Leo Laporte
You know, the only the one thing I'm looking forward to using is the business card feature, where you tap phones and it passes your contact information. What else is something we should? What are you excited about, jason? You did a good interview. Good review on six colors.

1:30:34 - Jason Snell
Live voicemail is interesting. What's that? The feature of live voicemail? Basically, your phone answers the call but plays your voicemail message and then beeps and then transcribes the response so you can see them live. You can see who it is and if you want, then you can pick it up which freaks people out but it's great for screening calls that. What do they have to do Is?

1:30:58 - Leo Laporte
record a clatter sound and you can run over out of breath saying oh, oh, oh, I just picked up. I heard your voicemail. So just like the old days, Just like the old days.

1:31:07 - Jason Snell
Yeah, well, the idea. Iphone has this great feature that is hard to turn on, which is unknown callers just are silenced and sent to voicemail. And the problem is what? If it is some? You know it's your plumber who you called and they said you'd call them back. They'd call you back and then you didn't put them in your thing and then you missed the call, like there are lots of scenarios like that.

So this lets you turn that feature on and still, if the call is coming in, you get to see who's leaving the message and maybe then pick up and go oh sorry, I'm here now. So that's a nice little feature inside the phone app that I think is pretty clever. There's standby, which is this new thing where a thing if it's being charged either by MagSafe or even just by a cable and it's in a horizontal orientation and not moving it enters this standby mode that it basically turns it into a widget display or a clock or whatever. And widgets work in there and they've got some presets with like photos in the clock and it's just that you could basically buy a stand and turn your iPhone into an ambient data display, and I'm a big fan of ambient data, the idea that I just sort of like it's around me and I can look at it when I want to, and that's a really nice new feature.

1:32:28 - Andy Ihnatko
Are you using a contact? What's that? What are they calling the feature where you can have your own custom phone?

1:32:34 - Jason Snell
Contact posters.

1:32:35 - Andy Ihnatko
Thank you, contact posters. So yeah, I'm gonna set that up right away. They see not just your name, but hey, here's the picture. I decided that you need to see it. Sometimes you're deciding whether to talk to me or not.

1:32:45 - Jason Snell
Yeah, it's basically the lock screen editor from last year turned into contacts. It's the same premise, right, where you're sort of you get a layout screen where you could pick a photo and you could pick a color and you can pick a font, and then it uses the same dynamic as has been around for a few years now, where you set a little icon for yourself and then when you're texting with people, like, your icon gets sent to them and represents you if you want and they want. And it's similar in that if somebody doesn't wanna use that photo of you in their personal on their phone, they don't have to, but you basically provide them with, like, here is my design of how I would like to represent myself, and it's all via iCloud and so you end up with there's a little aspect of delight to it, too, when your buddy calls you and you're like, hey, and it's a picture of your buddy, like really nice and big in their face and their name is up there and it's a color they've chosen and it's just a nice thing to have. It's not necessary, you have to choose to do it, but I think it's fun that Apple adds features like that. Oh, and I should say interactive widgets right Is a huge one that is across all of the different levels of this, which is that the new, the widgets were pretty but they didn't do anything right, they were just for data and now they can be like you can't swipe on them, but you can tap on them and things will happen.

So there's like a home kit, one where you can turn lights on and off. Our friend, james Thompson, has already done his dice rolling app where you can roll dice right from there, timery and other time trackers. You don't even. We're entering an era where for basic app interactions, you don't have to open the app ever if there's a widget on your home screen. So you end up with this interesting case where Apple has sort of like said it used to be if you wanna use an app, you go in the app, and now it's sort of like you only need to go in the app. In some cases, like when it's something complicated, when it's something simple, you probably never even need to go into the app. You just use the widget and it'll do whatever it is you want. There's a lot of potential there. A lot of third-party apps are gonna be, are gonna do great stuff with it.

1:34:52 - Andy Ihnatko
That's gonna be transformative for a lot of people. That's actually one of the things that got me to switch from iPhone to Android way back when, because there are so many times where, like with a Notes app, I don't necessarily want to have to tap on Evernote or whatever and navigate through there to create a fresh note. I just want to just simply say the Wi-Fi password by FriendsHouse is this, and when I'm traveling, I even have like a whole page of my home screen set up with just like one, two, three simple widgets, so it's a status board of where I am in my travels and also a way to do actionable things Once again, like when I'm just I've got 10 seconds to get this down, or 10 seconds to check this or update this thing. I don't need to have to dig through like 80 apps in order to do it. I think that's a really, really a lot of people are going to find themselves just absolutely digging this to do an experience.

1:35:43 - Jason Snell
Imagine having your to-do list and your time tracker and you finish a job and you go back out to the home screen. You could literally check off the item off your to-do list and turn off or toggle your time tracker, and you never opened another app, you just went tap, tap done, move on to the next thing without launching. I think it's going to be interesting to see how much workflows change, where people are like not having to open apps. Just, you know, just tap on that widget and move on to the next thing and the app is doing the work in the background. But it doesn't have to, you know, do more than that. It doesn't have to be more complicated.

1:36:16 - Andy Ihnatko
Minimum intrusion is one of the best trends in modern software. That is, we don't let's not grab this person's whole attention. Let's just let him just give me part of his brain for exactly five seconds. We can do the things that he needs to do and we won't take him out of whatever his mindset is right now.

1:36:31 - Jason Snell
And just because an app takes up your whole screen and dominates your life, I mean it doesn't have to right. It's only been that the model has been the app takes up your whole screen and dominates your life. And with these widgets, apple is sort of saying and Apple has a lot invested in people using apps, right, but with a widget, apple is saying, no, you don't always have to have it be your whole life, it could just be a little part of a larger thing it's. It'll be interesting to see how the developers react to it, but I think it's a good thing. As you mentioned, apple has also completely overhauled the video camera system so, like on the iPad, you can use an external video camera. They're bringing continuity camera to TVOS so that you can do video conferences on your TV.

And they've added this whole machine learning layer so they take in the input from your camera and then they process it and then they output it to the whatever app you're using and it happens. That's good, because it means it'll work in any app. And it also means that they can do and they're doing like machine learning, processing of who the subject is and who the background is, which leads to that whole thing where, if you like, hold up two thumbs, you get fireworks that happen behind you, or one thumb and you get a big thumbs up thing that pops up, and that's all across all your platforms. Oh, look it, just did it oh.

And without any software at all, because it's just happening in the system. That's really neat. It's all there and on the Mac.

1:37:52 - Leo Laporte
You're not watching the video.

1:37:53 - Jason Snell
Jason's. You can even edit it. That's so cool there's and it's at a system level. I mean, that's the beauty of it. It's not like only in Apple's apps or whatever. It's like, literally, when I'm in Zoom right now, zoom is looking at a video camera that it thinks is the camera, but it's not right. It is a virtual camera of the same name that is taking my camera's input and processing it and then passing it on to Zoom, and Zoom doesn't need to know any of that, right, it doesn't need to know.

1:38:23 - Leo Laporte
Do more, Jason, do more. Is there any more?

1:38:26 - Alex Lindsay
Well, I mean the short depth of field is that Apple's like depth of field is better than everybody else's because it's not as aggressive.

1:38:33 - Leo Laporte
Oh, confetti Nice, I really like the rock and roll. You gotta make the rock and roll gesture.

1:38:37 - Jason Snell
Yeah, and you can turn all this stuff on and off in the control center on the iPad and the iPhone too, so you can set Portrait Mode and Studio Light and you can also change how strong they are, which you didn't use to be able to do.

1:38:48 - Leo Laporte
So are you in continuity cam. Oh, it's raining.

1:38:51 - Jason Snell
No, this is, I'm actually using my Opal web camera, web cam, but it doesn't matter because, again, it's into the system.

1:38:58 - Leo Laporte
So for a system, yeah.

1:38:59 - Jason Snell
And that's just how it works.

1:39:01 - Leo Laporte
Oh, true love. So these are reminiscent of the messages features, but better because you're in it.

1:39:08 - Jason Snell
Exactly, and it's segmenting based on your position, right. So the idea here is it knows I'm the subject, so it can put things in the foreground and the background, exactly.

1:39:19 - Leo Laporte
The balloons went in front of you and behind you, oh my.

1:39:21 - Andy Ihnatko
God. And the balloons are translucent too, aren't they?

1:39:24 - Jason Snell
Yeah, they show a little bit, and likewise the confetti falls behind me and in front of me it's yeah, they have a pretty good job with it.

1:39:31 - Leo Laporte
That's non trivial, I gotta point out. This is all looks simple, is not?

1:39:35 - Jason Snell
And, yes, you can turn it off. You can turn it off if you don't like it.

You can like, cause there's always somebody out there who's like this is so stupid, I hate it Like, don't worry, you can turn it off, because that's I think a lot of us over the last few years have been like you know, there really should be more web cam settings in Mac OS and iOS and they're like Apple will never do it and it's like guess what they did it? They actually. I guess it's not too nerdy after all. You can turn this stuff on and off. You can adjust how much you want that Fokie portrait mode thing to be. You can do all of that in there now. It's a really nice feature.

1:40:07 - Andy Ihnatko
I was really pleased with how well the camera worked on on iPad OS 17. I installed that yesterday and just you plug it in. I just plugged in basic external USB camera and suddenly FaceTime didn't even have to be told. Don't use the internal camera of the iPad, use the external instead.

1:40:23 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, the question is does it deliver that to other apps, so like, for instance, if you're on to Instagram?

1:40:32 - Jason Snell
I think it changes your default camera when you plug in an external camera and it uses that camera instead.

1:40:38 - Alex Lindsay
Because the Instagram one is interesting, because Instagram won't let you use professional cameras. So being able to not it's not so much web cameras but, if I can, because I've tried so far with the iPad, I haven't been able to get my, my ATEM, to work because it's supposed to show up as a web camera. You know it shows up for a web camera for many things. It doesn't show up yet for the iPad.

1:40:59 - Jason Snell
Maybe it doesn't believe you.

1:41:01 - Alex Lindsay
Exactly, but but I think that if we, if, if you know so digitizers, for us, the idea is like can I give it an STI or HDMI signal and convert it and have it into one of these like web presenter pros or whatever from Blackmagic? Because again, the Instagram and a couple other ones will not let you do that, because they're trying to keep everybody on the same playing field and all of us want to break that playing playing field.

1:41:25 - Jason Snell
I think if it can fool it into thinking that it's a webcam, right and it works with a webcam, then it will work. But those are the. Those are the tricks. There's a bunch. I was surprised at how much stuff is across all the platforms this year, right Like there are some iOS and iPad OS specific features, but a lot of them are sort of everywhere iPhone, ipad and Mac. Like I write. I write a lot about the photos app.

They added pets to the machine learning based recognition engine and it's pretty good. Like I had two black cats and some combination of its ML model and I think maybe it's using dates as a cue, right Like that. If you see one cat in this run of years and another cat in this run of years, it's probably two different cats, which it is, and it did a pretty good job of, like, recognizing the two different cats and so I you know it recognized all my pets and then they show up in the people album, which is now called the people and pets album, so they did some nice stuff there. And then the other one I'll throw out.

There is password sharing you can use if you want to use iCloud passwords and you want to share it with other people. You can, and they didn't do it by saying something like you can share with your family, but that's it. It's like, literally, you create a password sharing group. You put people in it it can be anybody and then you put the passwords in that group, which is actually really nice because it means that you show this password with I'm sharing this with Dan and Casey. And then you go to the next password and you're like now I gotta add Dan and Casey again. I can create a group with Dan and Casey in it.

And then they see the passwords and then they get it's like an invitation. And then they get the passwords and they do see the passwords, you are sharing them and then you can. It's a you know, that's the circle of trust, right, but by creating arbitrary groups it could be anybody, and then you say you can assign people to those groups, you can remove people from those groups. It's a really smart, it's a really well done system. There are still reasons to use a third party password manager, but fewer and fewer of them over time.

1:43:30 - Alex Lindsay
The big thing with LastPass that we used a lot for a long time was the idea that I could add groups and it would add the password into the webpage but never show it to you, so that you would be able to give people passwords without actually showing them the passwords. So you can say I want that person to have access to this, but I don't want them to ever know what the password is, and it would just do that built in. That was the and that was a feature, because then you don't necessarily want people to see the passwords either. You can give them access without having to, but all of this is gonna go away with passcode anyway, cause then you'll be able to basically say these people can get into it.

1:44:01 - Jason Snell
Yeah, apple's whole system is about disclosure. So if you're trying to hide passwords from people, don't give them the passwords. Passwords, yeah.

1:44:08 - Andy Ihnatko
One thing that really disappointed me was I was really hoping for the next generation of stage manager, at least on the iPad. It's still. They made a couple of changes. It's easier to move windows, kind of where you want them to go. But the basic problems that I've always had with it like how is this going to be easier than simply snapping a window left and right? You're not making it terribly easy for me to have multiple work stages. You're not making it terribly obvious how I switched between work stages. It's like I was deliberately trying to see how far I get without reading a documentation on. Here are the key commands for switching from one stage to another. Here is how you manage apps from one place to another. Hey, why can't I put the window where I want it to go? Well, here's how you put a window where you want it to go. There's a lot of potential there, but it's gonna be a struggle for me to stick with it, and I'm determined to stick with it for a little while.

1:45:03 - Jason Snell
I don't agree. But I'm not a kind of user who does things like try to snap windows side by side. I'm not a snapper, I'm not. I like to put them where I want to put them on my Mac. I think stage manager, for me it completely fixed it with this version the fact that you can place windows in arbitrary places.

I felt with last year's stage manager that I was fighting an invisible enemy who kept wanting to put my windows in places I didn't want to go. I was fighting with the system and I couldn't survive it for more than like 20 minutes. I'd just give up. I don't think I can't do this. And now it wouldn't let me put two windows where one was centered and one was off to the left. It would be like, oh, you want those side by side. It's like, no, I don't want them side by side. And then this new system, you can do that and it's fine. It doesn't really rearrange your windows at all, other than if it does some sort of organizational snapping. So if you have one that's toward the top and you have another one at the same height, it will sort of slide it a little bit.

1:46:03 - Andy Ihnatko
so that they're level, so it's still a target.

1:46:05 - Jason Snell
Basically, but that's about it. And they solve the hiding problem, which is you could lose a window behind another window. You can't do that with Stage Manager. It actually peeks out the back and says I'm back here.

1:46:19 - Speaker 2
And then when you click on it, it brings it forward I'm over here.

1:46:21 - Jason Snell
I'm here. And in terms of switching around in Stage Manager, they added a bunch of shift click networks almost everywhere where if you shift click on an app in spotlight anywhere in the dock, it will put it in your space, which was a thing that was frustratingly missing last time. And in terms of switching between stages, I'm always with a trackpad, so I just it's the three finger swipe back and forth switches between spaces and that works for me. So it's gone for me and the way I use Windows, it has gone from being an unusable thing to a thing that I actually can use all day if I want, and it works pretty well, yeah.

1:47:04 - Andy Ihnatko
There's just some confusing stuff on me I've got, so I'm determined to have. I've just I've established my iPad Pro as the desk over there is. Now that's where the iPad Pro lives, always dock to a keyboard, a mouse and a screen. I'm looking at right now and I'm still confused as to why, like on the on the iPad screen, I can see the, I can see the sidebar dock, where they call the dock, they call the sidebar dock, whatever they call it for the place in the side of the side of the screen, where you have all your different like, all your different views, all your different locations, and I'm like well, why do I not have that on the main screen as well to affect the apps groups that are up there? And it's and it's. It's.

It's nice to be able to do all those swipes on the trackpad, but I'm missing, like maybe it's because I'm just so used to the efficiency of how app and window management works on both Mac and Windows and every other desktop operating system. It's like I'm used to. Well, why can't I just hit command tilde or command escape or whatever to switch, because I want the active window to be this? Now, like no, you're making me like drift off the keys and put on onto a point device in order to actually select this part of it. I still it's. I I I openly admit and I'm trying to address this that I just didn't get interested in it when it was first rolled out last year, so I had it turned on for a few days to play with it and then I had to actually start doing actual work on my Mac and on my iPad, said, okay, this is a distraction, I'll get back to a later. And then I never did, and this is why I've got this setup over there. I'm trying to keep it active so I can learn it, at least from the point of view of someone who is trying to get interested in this.

There's a lot of it that just puts me way off as opposed to other features that the first day I've seen. Oh my God, I don't understand fully how this works, but I can absolutely see how this is going to save me time and energy. Like, like. Again snapping the idea of like.

I have a limited screen real estate on this iPad, so maybe overlapping windows is going to be more of a hindrance. I like the fact that you don't make me have to sort of carefully adjust how to have, how to have one app on one half of the screen, another app on the other half of the screen. I like the fact that you let me just simply have a divider and you can slide it between half and two thirds or have it come in from the side. I mean, oddly enough, it might sound like a big step backward, but if they added an option for a tiling mode where I can say, look, I want these four apps on the screen, I want one main, I want one half of it to be the my editing window, I want one column to be this piece of reference I'm coding at, and I want a top right corner and the top left corner to be two messaging apps so I can participate in a group chat in two different places, that sort of stuff. But maybe I'll get into it.

1:49:36 - Leo Laporte
Number one feature besides the continuity cam and I and TV OS, according to Andrew Cunningham, is the sixth icon in the on the Apple TV and instead of five Uh okay, fit more apps. Fit more apps on each row, it's most useful feature in years, and actually that says more about how silly TV OS is than this feature.

1:50:02 - Jason Snell
Right, it's just although I I disagree in the sense that I do think continuity camera is the big win.

I think that's you the idea that you can take your phone and one of these mounts like you know, belkin makes one that you stick your phone on top of the TV and you've got a family like we do, those all and it's awkward because it's on like an iPad or it's on a laptop and they're sitting on the coffee table and the angles are bad.

And I'm telling you, you, you do a FaceTime, because zoom I don't think is out for TV OS yet, which it really should be, but you do a FaceTime with somebody with continuity camera on top of the TV. It's like I felt like I was in a science fiction movie. I was like I cannot believe because, like, the quality of the image is really good, even using center stage, because the iPhone back camera is so good, there's so much sensor there that they can zoom in on you when you still look really good, and the person on the other end looks really good because they're on your big TV now and that the it does the noise canceling thing where the sound sounds good and they don't, they're no echoes and, like I, it's a winner, I think I I look forward to having all of those family video conferences and all my other video conferences, frankly, be on the TV now, because it's such a better experience.

1:51:15 - Andy Ihnatko
Nice. It's kind of hard to know how to expand Apple TV because it's almost as if it's almost as if the entire marketplace has made the decision that this, this unremarkable, plain little black box that you hide in the back of TV, is there just to run the Netflix app, just to run the YouTube app, just to run the Disney plus app, and it's not something that I intentionally experience. So it's hard to find. Where is the central concierge portion of that experience where one would launch something like hey, I want to have a, I want to have a, have a Shlomo experience where it can give me, when I, when I ask questions into the ether, it can actually display partially, partial answers where I, on my TV screen.

It's hard to know, like if, how would the use? How useful would be what a web browser be? How useful would be to be able to have a live video window but also an informational window so I can do live chat with friends as I'm going. I think the people it's a cool idea and it is definitely what would happen, like when you're phoning home from Klavius moonbase in 2001,. But maybe people are just know all, all, can I, can I run Netflix on it? Yes, good Done, sold.

1:52:29 - Leo Laporte
Here's your money, here's as you point out, Jason health app is now on iPad. That's nice.

1:52:34 - Jason Snell
I don't know why it wasn't big, big charts and stuff now, and health kit too. So, theoretically, apps that previously like connected to other health devices via Bluetooth and only ran on the iPhone should now they have to be updated right, because, like I, I have a blood pressure sensor and it like on the iPad, it's like no, you can't share this with health because you used to not be able to right. They need to fix that because you can now. But the idea there is that if you're somebody who's more iPad centric than iPhone centric and Andy and I both fall in that camp it's really nice that that stuff is not barred from your view. All that health data now can get shared across your devices so that you can go for a run, log in on your Apple watch, then go look at the heart rate statistics on your iPad. It's all there and big, you know big iPad sized charts and graphs yeah.

1:53:26 - Andy Ihnatko
It's. It's. I mean, the Apple Watch has even got more enticing, not with fancy new features that are involved like harder, harder, higher processor, more memory, whatever better pipeline. They added three things that really spoke directly to me. Like simple things, like being able to like track have you taken, if you're taking vitamins, if you're taking prescription medication, like, have you taken your pills today? That's being tracked so you can basically log that, yep, I took this pill at the right time and if it doesn't take, if you don't take it, it will give you a run saying, hey, you probably should have taken it by by 9am. It has a, has a light sensor so it can track.

Did you get to where you exposed to daylight not just like harmful daylight, but again, did you spend the entire day inside offices and inside restaurants and stores, or did you actually experience the sunshine and even the, the, the, the logging features of just what was your mental health today? What was your, what was your experience, what was your feelings today? Like, like Alex said, I mean for everything, yes, for blood glucose levels, sugar levels, but also tracking. Here is how I felt day after day after day after day. Also, did you again? Wow, I was in a bad mood on Wednesday and I had actually not really left the house since Saturday, the day before, the day before. Perhaps this has a relevancy to why I was in a sour mood and I was feeling excited for three days.

And also just simple things like again confer some, sometimes like I'll have a pill that I take in the morning as soon as I get up. Sometimes I forget that I, whether I took it or not. It's the sort of thing where like I can't, I can't, you shouldn't take it twice. So it's like okay, I guess I just won't. I guess I hopefully I took it if I didn't. Well, today, today's going to be a little bit more challenging.

1:55:04 - Leo Laporte
Anybody install watch. I was 10, yet Boy genius. Reviews says major overhaul makes me want to upgrade my Apple watch. So Apple's redesigned all the apps right. Everything's a little bit bigger. This is even on existing Apple watches, not just the new watches. What do you think?

1:55:26 - Jason Snell
Yeah, old Apple watch apps used to be black background and trying to pretend right, because they remember the earlier Apple watches, the face was not mostly screen, there was like a little postage stamp screen and then extra border around it. And so they made all the backgrounds black because then you could pretend sort of like with a dynamic island, right, it's like, how do you hide the cutouts? Is you put the black thing around it? Well, modern Apple watches, recent Apple watches, have very small back or borders around them. So they've, they've embraced it and they're like now apps have colorful backgrounds and they're not. They look nicer Right, and they also embraced the idea like complications are a good thing in the Apple watch.

And so now I love that apps have a little corner interface elements that are that look like complications but they're actually like menu buttons and action buttons and things like that.

So the apps are really nice. And then they added this widget feature, which I think it's weird because you have to kind of like scroll off of the watch face to get to it and and then the first thing you see is the is a clock and it's like, well, wait a second, I was just looking at a clock. If I wanted to see a clock, I could have stayed with a clock, and now you're showing me a clock again, why? And then you keep scrolling and you see widgets. The widgets are very cool. Again, apple is all in on this next generation widget technology they built and now you see it everywhere. It's in standby, it's an interactive widgets, is in control center or notification center, it's on the Mac desktop, it's on, it's everywhere, and now it's also sort of a version of it on the Apple watch. But it's useful because you can see a bunch of stuff at a glance without going into the app, which seems to be a theme.

1:57:06 - Leo Laporte
And I love the scoop that GQ magazine in the UK got. I don't know why they did how Apple made the ultimate Snoopy watch. You wouldn't believe the minutiae.

1:57:20 - Andy Ihnatko
Oh, this was this was this was such a good read? Because you think about, you think about the custom watch faces, and it's like, oh, okay, so they throw the creative piece of art that put underneath the time, the hands of the time. Or, okay, now there's an animation that maybe turns up and says, no, they created like 130 for them and, working very closely with the creative, the creative director at the Snoopy's Charles Schultz's estate. It's like the 135, 134 different, like animations that kick in at specific times, and I'm scrolling to find it, but they actually called it like the Snoopy engine to basically figure out the context of like, oh, this person is swimming, so Snoopy needs to be in scuba gear. And here's how we need to rotate this animation.

Because he's interacting with the minute hand, so we have to make sure we rotate that graphic in exactly the right way.

1:58:12 - Leo Laporte
Oh, makes me want to go scuba diving. That's fantastic.

1:58:16 - Andy Ihnatko
Wow, you really appreciate that. That's. That's why I still think, I still wish that they would allow third parties to design their own watch faces, but when they put this much effort into a Snoopy watch face, that's another another reason why I really want to have a.

I really want to have an Apple watch and maybe I have. I have, like my, my my most recent iPhone is an iPhone 11 that I actually own like as part of my hardware live. It's like if, even if I all I have to, I just pair it to that phone just to get it started and then, like I see how long I can go between like actually turning on that phone again, it'll be, it'll be worth 350, 350, $400 to get like all these little things, excluding the stuff it will never screw, screw, which is I will. I just want the Snoopy watch face, that's it.

1:59:01 - Leo Laporte
Well, you'll get it if you get a watch. I guess I'm getting my new ultra is Friday, along with my iPhone 15 Pro Max. We'll talk about it next Tuesday. What else? Is there anything else before we wrap up here? I don't, I mean, there's so much more. Obviously we can't, we can't get to it all, but I think we've covered a lot of worthwhile. Have you tried the? Oh, I guess we don't have the new watches yet.

1:59:27 - Jason Snell
No, I tried. I tried it at the event. The double tap, yeah, it took a little. It was a little learning curve for me. I think I was tapping too gently and too quickly, but once I realized I needed a little more force and a little more time I was able to get it.

And then it's a clever feature.

I, like Andy, said much earlier in this show, it's a question of like is this just the accessibility feature from a couple years ago? I get the sense that it's not and that they did some refining in order to sort of turn it loose on the entire world, and that the fact that they've got the neural engine in the in the chip in the Apple Watch this time and they suggested that there's a level of machine learning that's going on here for them to figure this out that maybe they had to put they like the feature, and they said we want to give this to everyone, but we need a little extra like, we need to have a higher degree of confidence in it, and so they built some new models on it. But it's clever. I mean, it really is literally for when you would? I mean, I think we've all done this probably, or is it just me. Like you got your hands full and something goes off on your watch and you end up tapping it with your nose in order to get it to go away, right?

2:00:38 - Leo Laporte
Well, you won't have to do that it's a universal experience, don't worry, and what it's trying to do is just it's hitting the default button Like it's.

2:00:45 - Jason Snell
Actually. There's not a lot of complexity here. On one level it's literally hitting the default button because I can't for whatever reason I can't reach over and tap it, so I'm just going to do this and make it go away, sort of like with the Google, the Nest home, where the alarm goes off and you can just wave your hand like there's nothing to see you, these aren't the droids you're looking for and it and the alarm turns off. It's a little like that where it's just it's a convenience where you might not be able to touch a touchscreen.

2:01:12 - Leo Laporte
Not worth rushing out to buy a new watch for but something.

2:01:14 - Jason Snell
Definitely I'm keeping my series six because it's titanium and it's beautiful and I love it and it's fine. But it's a but. It's a fun feature that I think will be good for people whenever they do their next upgrade, whenever that is.

2:01:26 - Leo Laporte
Let's take a little break. Picks of the week still to come. I have like 12 of them, so I'll have to pick one. Pick my pick. But first a word from our sponsor, DeleteMe. Have you ever searched for your name online? Oh, I don't. I don't recommend it. But on the other hand, I do recommend it because you really want to know how much of your personal information is out there Thanks to these data brokers.

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The data broker industry is evolving. It's getting worse and worse. The lead me continues to add new sites, new features, to make sure their services both easy to use and is effective in removing all this PII, this personally identifiable information. In fact, they've got privacy advisors that will talk to you and I think it's important to let you know where it's a problem where it's not a problem. They'll give you the advice you need their experts in this stuff. Protect yourself, reclaim your privacy. is the website. Do use the offer code TWIT. So they know you saw it here. Join delete mecom slash Twitter. The offer code TWIT gets you 20% off. I hate it that we have to do this, but we do. And, and you know again, it's no fun. But search for your name online, see what you find and then visit the website. Don't forget the offer code TWIT for 20% off. Let's see here. Let's start with you, Alex Lindsay. We usually start with the least expensive stuff first, but I'll give you a chance to.

2:05:58 - Alex Lindsay
I don't think you can get the least expensive, so my pick is actually the black magic camera. I think that this is a pretty groundbreaking camera for the fact that we don't this is not a physical piece of hardware.

This is soft. This is an app. Exactly, it's an app and it is it is. You know the, the. You know it's it's. There's a couple of things about it is is that it's it's an app here. That, basically, is the.

It gives you the feel of working with a black magic camera. So a lot of the stuff looks very similar to the black magic camera, but it's on your phone and it's taking full advantage of what your phone can do, and not only that. You can set it up to upload to things like the black magic cloud so that you can be shooting and uploading, you know, very, very quickly. So, when it comes to you, some of the places this might be used, which is news gathering, imagine being able to have an editor sitting there for breaking news or something else in your shooting stuff and with your phone, with a ton of control, and that stuff is just appearing in your bin in resolve Like it's a, it's a pretty, but you can set it to upload to different folders and different things. It's not that's not the only thing it'll upload to, and so there's a lot of a lot of power. It's really a professional level camera taking. It's just going well. We want all the features, all the features that we can get that we would normally have in our cameras, and they just applied it to the lenses and the sensors that the phone has, and so I think that it's, it's a pretty. I mean, I, I will.

We have friends that that you know, have built lots of phone apps and this one's going to be really hard to compete with because it's a big company that I think is playing really hard. They, I think they see this as an opportunity to add to it. It's, you know, a lot of its lookup tables and so on, so forth, that designed to look to intercut with the cameras that they already have. So so there's a lot of really interesting puzzles. I mean, one thing that will be interesting to see is we've already used it through adapters. We've used the iPhone, we've used things like filmic pro to connect four or five iPhones to a, a 10 switcher. But we have to adapt from lightening to to, you know, from lightening to HDMI and everything else. With the new cameras, with USB-C, I think, we just plug a USB-C to HDMI cable and plug it into our switcher and we're switching in as well. So I think that there's a lot of, and what would be really interesting is to see if they figure out how to talk to it so you can shade the cameras and everything else.

But that's, you know, I don't know. It seems like a natural place for them to go. They're not announcing that yet or they're not talking about that anyway. But but the it's free, it doesn't cost anything. You can download a very high-end app that fits into a much larger ecosystem at no cost, and so I think that if you've been waiting for that, that app, and you weren't ready to pay for something or pay a subscription or do anything else, I think it's going to be hard to compete with what, what they just released. They released a lot of other things. Last week they released some new cameras and a new full full full frame sensor and a lot of other things, and so they they big router, the things that I'm excited about the 80 by 80 router, which is at 12G, which is something that I'm really excited about but probably won't affect the average consumer. Mac brick, viewer.

2:09:12 - Leo Laporte
We use. If we were just talking about before the show, we have their what is it, john? The 90 by 180 router, 72 by 144, which they don't make anymore for the broadcast video. They don't make it anymore. We need it, so we, and so now we have a legacy piece of hardware that we got to keep running forever because we need it Right, and and the problem is is that I wish it was a little bit higher.

2:09:35 - Alex Lindsay
the router the big thing that we've had is we've been stuck with these 40 by 40s to do 12G, and so the next step up was incredibly expensive to another company, utah Scientific, and, and so or Ross, one of those two, and and those are really expensive. So to get 80 by 80 for the price, which I think is under 10 grand, is a pretty, it's a lot, and you can buy these in. They have some replaceable. You know one of the problems we had them someone steps on the cable. We had one router that was a 40 by 39 because someone stepped on one of the cables and broke the piece off.

Now you can, you can pull some of these out at like, I think, 10 at a time. So anyway, that's a whole nother. Those are other. They made a lot of announcements at IBC, but I think the one that's probably going to impact the industry the most right out of the gate is this little, this little app on the phone that gives you something again that looks. If you're a black magic camera user, it looks familiar and it gives you pretty much all the manual controls that you would want in a camera and interface.

2:10:32 - Leo Laporte
Just to record up to DaVinci Resolve. I mean I can imagine taking this to CES recording clips and as I go it's getting uploaded to the black magic cloud and editors here can edit it and put it out as soon as it's done. I mean that's wow by itself is great, and it's free by itself. So I mean, that sounds like a killer app. And all of the other features, okay. It sounds like everybody who has an iPhone should have this on their phone. Yeah, for you know why not?

2:11:03 - Alex Lindsay
If you want to, yeah, you should download it and play with it. Now it might be more than what most people want to have there, but but if you're, I mean it really is taking, you know, going towards a. You know I want to do filmmaking on the and remember that this is also it's going to the black magic cloud, but that means you can also use a resolve on the iPad so you could be out there with your phone and iPad and and cutting with your. You know, shooting with your phone and having it and then being able to do fast assemblies. So imagine being able to cut and you do a fast assembly on your iPad, but it just saves out and someone else opens it in on a regular one and finishes your show, you know. So there's the. You know.

I think that a lot of us have looked at what black magic is doing for a long time going. I think that they're crazy. You know, like, like they're, you know what they're trying to do is so big and so complicated and so hard, you know, to get this whole integrated experience and it's starting to like you can start to see it off in the distance now, like we were in the black, like I don't know if this is going to work, but now you're starting to go well they might.

They might actually pull the turn here, so so it's a pretty, pretty interesting amount of integration. I would highly recommend it because it's free. It's not like free for a little while, it's just free, free. I would highly recommend downloading and playing with it, yeah.

2:12:20 - Leo Laporte
Hey, I never asked this, but I should. The microphones on the iPhone are they good enough for that kind of gun and run and gun shooting, or do you really still want to have an extra?

2:12:31 - Alex Lindsay
You know I would still use. I mean you can get something out of them for running gun shooting. I would still use external mics for it.

2:12:36 - Leo Laporte
To me it seems like they sound surprisingly good, like better than they are, because it's just a phone.

2:12:41 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, I mean, they do a reasonably good job of it at it and and so I wouldn't say that it's unusable. It's not as good as if you had a. If you, you know, I build rigs where I have, you know, electronic, electronic mics going into an interface that go back into the phone. But but I think that I think that you could definitely get usable stuff with people that are a reasonable distance away. So it's just if they start getting further away, you're moving around a lot around them, then it becomes a little bit harder, but if you're going to tight, All right, like an interview of the two people standing or you don't stand up in front of it.

I think you could probably get a pretty good, pretty good audio out of it, yeah.

2:13:14 - Leo Laporte
Blackmagicdesigncom. But it's on, of course, the App Store. Andy and Ako pick of the week.

2:13:20 - Andy Ihnatko
Mine's kind of a narrow recommendation. It's for people who are interested in live theater and or opera and people who are in Boston or are going to be in Boston this Friday or this Sunday. The Boston Lyric Opera Company has put up a really amazing production of Puccini's Madame Butterfly and it's absolutely exceptional. I saw it on Sunday and it's it's deeply, deeply fascinating, because Madame Butterfly is one of those really difficult problems we have as modern progressive people, where this is a one of the best operas ever written by one of the best composers ever written. It's one of those top five most produced operas with some of the most beautiful music ever composed. However, it was written in 1906 by an Italian white guy and was it's set in Japan, based on what that 1906 Italian white guy imagined Japanese culture is going to be like. And on top of that, I mean so it's not like it's not super, super racist, but it's really uncomfortable and also it's. I will also say that it's based on this idea of this, the main character, butterfly, being this really kind of aimless, kind of powerless, again like a flitting butterfly who is like, from the first act, from the overture, all the way to the very end, it's like she's just walking towards a cliff, that she has never any choices, never any decisions. She's just determined to walk towards that cliff. So the story itself is even even when I've seen those really great productions at the Metropolitan Opera House, there's part of me that's like okay, I'm going to pet aside the fact that again, it has stereotypes, european stereotypes, that I don't like, and the story is, I have to kind of like lock. The performers really have to do all the heavy lifting to make these characters real. They've. So they decided to address all of those problems and not in the way where they just say, okay, well, I'll tell you what we'll cast. We'll cast Asian actors and all the Asian roles, roles, great, it's fixed. No, that's not it. Or neither did they say you know what? We're going to make sure that we're scolding Puccini, we're scolding every Bruce from whoever enjoyed this, and tell them how wrong they were to like this. That's also not the right way to go.

They made a simple change to the setting. Now, instead of taking place in Japan in 1900, it's taking place in San Francisco just before the attack on Pearl Harbor. Butterfly is not this sort of wave like naive 15 year old girl, she's a club singer and the danger of the times, the racism, the culture of the times, informs every choice and every decision that Butterfly has to make as she navigates a really, really tough situation. And for all that, they didn't really rewrite it. All they did was again made this brilliant choice, and every choice they made after that was informed by this. But I was left thinking that this is the same story. They just replanted it in fresh soil and that's all and for all that. It's actually a lot more accessible. It's a lot more easy to understand if you're not into opera, as long as you can read subtitles on the screen. So, the left and the right of the screen, you can basically treat it like it's any other musical, only with, again, some of the most God amazing music ever sung, ever performed.

Uh, I could go on for an hour. I will try not to. I'll just say that tickets are available for Friday night's performance, saturday afternoon's performance, as low as 40 bucks. Uh, I again, I saw it on Sunday. I'm going to try real hard to see it again because this just was such an exceptional experience that I just want to go through it all over again. Uh, but yeah, if you are in Boston. If you have any interest whatsoever even if this is going to be maybe in particular, if, particularly if this is going to be your first opera, this is going to be a really, really great experience for you. Go to bloorg bossonlorichopperorg uh to get more, get more information about it and to get tickets, please. Thank you, andy.

2:17:21 - Leo Laporte
I'm going to the I understand iron butterflies doing the next one, and that's the way you know the, the are in a God of David. Uh, you know, for the metisoprano it's incredible, uh, jason Snell, your pick of the week.

2:17:35 - Jason Snell
Sir, my opera this week is the opera of the week. You know, I I have that nightmare where I wake, where you know it's like you forgot to turn in your paper and college. My nightmare is that I'm on jeopardy and opera is the first cap for all of the opera minus sports.

2:17:54 - Andy Ihnatko
And I just walk away I just leave the stage.

2:17:55 - Jason Snell
I'm like no, goodbye, I can't do it.

2:17:58 - Andy Ihnatko
Bye, I'm out of here, do it Football. That's the one where you're allowed to touch the ball with your hands, right the point of the point you ball, Don't be intimidated.

2:18:08 - Leo Laporte
Ken Jennings, a Mormon, is a T totaler and yet did very well in potent potables. I just want to. That's right. He studied. He's suspiciously well Bartender stuff in order to in order to get it. That's part of the trick. Potent potables yes.

2:18:22 - Jason Snell
Not an opera, it is an app. And hey, do you live on earth? Well then, you might be affected by seasonal wildfire, smoke blowing in and ruining your air. It happens. It happens All of us in the U? S. It's been happening. In Canada. It's been happening a lot this summer. There is a network of little tiny air sensors out there called purple air. I have some they're relatively cheap.

I've got one in my backyard. There are a couple in my neighborhood, in fact, when we had some real severe wildfires a few years ago, I actually wrote a JavaScript widget that queried my local purple air and had a little thing that sat on my iPhone and my iPad that told me what the air quality was outside. Oh, that's funny.

2:19:00 - Leo Laporte
I made a website With my purple air, you do the queries and you set it up, and all that. Well, guess what?

2:19:08 - Jason Snell
Paku for the for the iPhone and iPad. Paku Paku is an app that does all of this. It's got the purple air map. It's got you can have it locked to the a station near you. It's got a great widget. It's got a new design that just came out where it shows you sort of like a chart of what has been going on in your area recently, so you can say, oh yeah, we had a spike earlier today, but now we're coming down the other side. Just incredibly well done. It does one thing.

Honestly, talking about widgets earlier, this is one of those things where you might just be able to set it and forget it. Put the widget somewhere where you can see it. We need this and it's based on location, so it's whatever sensor is near you. There's. Probably. You might, if you're a nerd like me, you run out and you buy a purple air sensor and you put it in your backyard. But the fact is, you should go to purple air first because, guess what? Probably somebody already did that. You know need to build your own because they've got one just around the block.

2:20:02 - Leo Laporte
I will add to this, because this was back when we had the wildfires and the AQI and I was looking at the air quality and I thought that's wrong. The nearest official government sensor is like miles north of us. They're not all over.

2:20:14 - Jason Snell
Yeah, they're very accurate more accurate than purple air. But they're too far away from most people and the smoke and all that can be incredibly hyper local. So you gotta. But if there's one near you, you can just use that one. And Paku is just. It's a beautiful, it's free. There's an in-app purchase for a bunch of extra features Really well done. And now I regret having written that JavaScript because you know who needs it. It's garbage. This is an actual, real app and I recommend it yeah.

2:20:42 - Leo Laporte
Pakuapp P-A-K-U dot A-P-P. Paku for purple air. Yeah, I wish I had an iPhone, because I would download this right now.

2:20:51 - Andy Ihnatko
But, jason, that's always humbling, isn't it? When, like you know God, there needs to be a solution to this. You know what? I'm a programmer, I'm going to program and you're really happy with it, you're really proud of it. So you know what, maybe I should, maybe I missed my calling, and then a real professional programmer attacks the same problem. You're like, ah, this is better.

2:21:08 - Leo Laporte
This is much better, that's fine. I mean, when I wrote my widget.

2:21:12 - Jason Snell
The app wasn't out yet right. Like he wrote to me, and when the first developer of this app wrote to me and was like oh, I saw your widget. I'm working on a thing that does this too, and it's like great, but like, eventually you got to discard your thing that you made Exactly. Leave it to the professionals. Professionals are on it now.

2:21:27 - Leo Laporte
My Pick of the Week is a really fun. A sub stack, max Redd, or maxreadsubstackcom. Read Max has put together a literary history of fake texts from Apple's marketing material. So good, highly. First of all, he's hysterical, so he's. He's really got some funny commentary on it the the he says. These eerily cheery, aggressively punctuated messages suggest an alternate dimension in which polite good nature, rigorously diverse groups of friends and coworkers use Apple products exactly as they are designed to be used, without complaint or error. But it's not just the most recent. He goes way back in time, starting in 2011, and screenshots of these, some of them are hysterical. Highly recommended. It's really fun With punctuation, with yes, very aggressive punctuation.

Yes, it's amazing. Yes, never use punctuation. Nobody texts with punctuation. My kids make fun of me for using punctuation. That's great. Here is a picture.

2:22:31 - Jason Snell
Hey, comma I'm home there's a lot of that how was the road trip?

2:22:34 - Leo Laporte
Send photos, which is a very common complaint in these. It's really good. So he wrote a great piece because he's he's commenting on this and it's hysterical. You may wonder why this dimension Apple daughter is sending her mother such a professional and stage looking photograph. Anyway, read max on substack. Very nicely done, max, I really like it. Well done. It might worth that's worth a subscribe? I think yeah, and I hope you will subscribe to us because I think we have justified our existence in the universe today, even though Apple doesn't know. We know and you know, and that's what matters. Apple may not think we exist, but until until, of course, we post their ads on there. In the midst of case, they try to take us down.

If you want to support what we do, club Twit is very important to us More and more so want to invite you to join. We do not do paywalls. I don't like paywalls, so all our shows will continue to be ad supported and available to you. We have added some new shows inside the club. Because we don't have ads for them and the club pays for them, it seems only fair that the club should get them, including Microsargeant's hands on Macintosh, hands on windows with Paul Therot, scott Wilkinson's home theater geeks, the untitled Linux show, the GizFiz All of those are in the club. We have a great Discord, which is a wonderful community fun to chat in, and all of this ad-free shows too, I forgot to mention. You get ad-free versions of all the shows $7 a month.

Tweettv slash club Tweet. More and more. This is how our future is going to require. This is how we go forward. Right now, 1% of our audience are club members. I'd love to if we could get it to two or even 3%, which seems to be reasonable. We wouldn't have to worry about the ongoing recession and advertising for podcasts. It's very important.

Tweettv slash club Tweet. I thank you in advance. You can watch this show for free whenever you want. We stream it live during the production at Tweettv slash live. Somebody said I just can't sit and watch six hours of shows. You don't have to. I have to, but you don't have to.

So if you want to watch livetwttv, if you are watching, join us in the IRC. That's free and open to all. Irctwttv or, of course, a club Tweet member, you can go into the Discord. There's a Discord open to all, as I mentioned earlier as our sponsor Discord Tweetcommunity. We also have our own Mastodon instance. Like Jason does, ours is Tweetsocial. He's his Zeppelin Flights, but you know, different strokes for different folks. After the fact, on demand versions of the show are available, as I said, ad supported, so they're free at Tweettv slash mbw for MacBreak Weekly. There's also a dedicated MacBreak Weekly YouTube channel. You can watch things there and, of course, if you subscribe in your favorite podcast catcher, you'll be able to watch whenever you want at your leisure. I thank you all for joining us. I wish you a wonderful week. We will see you again next week, iphones and Apple watches in hand. But now, I'm sad to say, it's my dire duty to inform you it's time to get back to work because break time is over. See you next time.

2:26:11 - Rod Pyle
Hey, I'm Rod Pyle, editor in chief of Ad Astra magazine, and each week I joined with my cohost to bring you, This Week in Space, the latest and greatest news from the final frontier. We talked to NASA, chief space scientists, engineers, educators and artists, and sometimes we just shoot the breeze over what's hot and what's not in space books and TV. And we do it all for you, our fellow true believers. So, whether you're an armchair adventurer or waiting for your turn to grab a slot in Elon's Mars rocket, join us on This Week in Space and be part of the greatest adventure of all time.

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