Ask The Tech Guys Episode 1991 Transcript
Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.
0:00:00 - Leo Laporte
Well, hey, hey, hey. It's time for Ask the Tech Guys. I'm Leo Laporte coming up. Uh, why doesn't Google?
0:00:06 - Mikah Sargent
know where I live, and I'm Mikah Sargent, and it's time to answer the question. Should we be upgrading our Airpods Pro to the latest generation?
0:00:14 - Leo Laporte
Or should we wait? Plus Car Guy Sam at Bulls Sammon. I'm gonna ask him about the Elon Musk biography. He says maybe Walter Isaacson got something wrong. Stay tuned, Ask the Tech Guys. Is next.
0:00:25 - VO
Podcasts you love. From people you trust. This. Is TWiT.
0:00:37 - Leo Laporte
This is Ask the Tech Guys with Mikah Sargent and Leo Laporte, episode 1991, recorded September 10th 2023. A Passel of Petabytes Ask the. Tech Guys is brought to you by Brooklinen. Experience the difference for yourself and check out Brooklinen's new fall collection for bed and bath. Visit in-store or online at Brooklinencom and don't forget to use the code TECHGUY for $20 off your online purchase of $100 or more, plus free shipping. And by Miro. Miro is your team's online workspace to connect, collaborate and create together. Tap into a way to map processes, systems and plans with the whole team. Get your first three boards for free to start creating your best work yet at Mirocom Slash podcast. Hey, how are you today? Once again, we're plural. Let's ask the Tech Guys time, hi, Mikah.
0:02:00 - Mikah Sargent
Hi Leo, how are you feeling? I feel much better. Good, yes, it was.
0:02:05 - Leo Laporte
I'm looking into your eyes to see if you're lying.
0:02:07 - Mikah Sargent
It was a rough couple of weeks, it was, but I feel much better.
0:02:11 - Leo Laporte
You do have the green eyes of a COVID. Long COVID sufferer. No, no long COVID which is good.
0:02:17 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I think I am still using an inhaler, but it's not good. Outside of that, I feel pretty, oh, so pretty.
0:02:27 - Leo Laporte
You are pretty. It's time to talk about tech, Mikah, and I will answer your questions at 88. I always do that. It's always going downhill as soon as I say 88., 87., 24., 28., 84. Those sound like measurements. That doesn't sound good 88., 87., 24., 28., 84. That's how you call us.
0:02:48 - Mikah Sargent
That's how you call us. If you want to zoom us, well, go to callTWiTtv On your phone is a great way to do it, because if you go by your phone, then you've got the camera, you've got the microphone all built in. So when you head to that link it'll say hey, can we zoom you? And then you'll go into a nice little waiting room with some other folks who are waiting to get on air to chat with us. Just hit that little button that says hand up, so we know that you're there not just to watch but to actually ask a question. So that's how you zoom us.
0:03:17 - Leo Laporte
Yes, and you can always email because we do emails. You were here last week when I it was a weird coincidence Got two printer questions in a row. At the top of the email stack ATG at TWiTtv is the email address. Just you know.
0:03:33 - Mikah Sargent
A weird coincidence, weird, yeah, weird I don't know how that, and if you, if you call, if you call during the week to that number 8887 2428 84. Sounds good when he says 8887242884, then you will be able to leave a voicemail where you can ask your question and have it answered on air.
0:03:51 - Leo Laporte
So what's in the news. What's what is in the news is a lot in the news, which is good because we have a very good tweet coming up. I just going to plug the next show because it's Amy Webll Join us. Jill Duffy, for PC magazine, join us. And, in a big yet, taylor Lawrence, whoa you may remember from the New York Times and now at the Washington Post, covers social. Her new book is called Extremely Online and it's the history of the create, the creation of the creator universe that we live in.
Okay, so that was really fun, and so I've been collecting stories for the three of them, because there are three very smart people. For instance, the Elon Musk biography from Walter Isaacson comes out Tuesday and a few bombshells in there. One of my talk, with that Interesting choice of words, yeah, so to speak. Or maybe no bomb shells I'm going to talk with one about with Sam Abel Samad, because our car guys coming up, which is Elon's choice in the next version of full self driving, to use neural networks instead of rule based full self driving. It's an interesting question whether it'll be better, but but I'll save that for Sam, because he's our car guy, the one that is going to be kind of explosive.
The real bombshell is that apparently, elon Musk decided that he didn't want a nuclear war, so he disabled Ukraine's Starlink access for a brief period of time to prevent them from using drones to attack the Russian Navy which, of course, is the kind of thing you would expect maybe a president of the United States Secretary of Defense to decide, not some entrepreneur who's providing internet access to the Ukraine army. So this was this was quite a revelation. We hadn't heard about it before. And not only that, but in order to demonstrate it to Walter Isaacson, his biographer, he gave him private emails from the US government about it and an email exchange, and the and the government's very upset about that as well.
0:06:09 - Mikah Sargent
So, and hasn't Walter Isaacson tried to walk some of this back?
0:06:13 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, he walked it back, but which?
0:06:15 - Mikah Sargent
is just. I don't think, yeah, what the book says versus what Walter is what Isaacson is saying now.
0:06:21 - Leo Laporte
According to Isaacson, musk secretly instructed his engineers to turn off Starlink satellite coverage to prevent Ukraine from launching a surprise drone attack on Russian forces in the Crimea. Isaacson has since said on X, the network formerly known as Twitter, that, contrary to what he wrote, contrary to what he writes must in shutdown coverage but deny the request to extend the network's range. So they didn't have the coverage. They asked for more. He said no, no, you can't have that. There's a difference. There is a difference. Musk decided he was saving humanity from a nuclear war. When Ukraine's vice prime minister texted him to say Starlink was a matter of life and death. Musk's texted back seek peace while you have the upper hand. This is not what we want.
0:07:13 - Mikah Sargent
Private individuals to do.
0:07:17 - Leo Laporte
It's kind of a shocker. Anyway, nothing more to say about that. We'll talk more about it on Twitter. I'm sure.
0:07:23 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, that's a tough thing, right? Because in the United States itself, regulations surrounding Internet are one thing, but how does it apply when we're talking about international waters and other countries and a private US citizen having Internet access, like there's just, it's just, it's very wrinkly, I guess, is what I'm saying I had a woo said on Twitter.
0:07:44 - Leo Laporte
So all you guys who told me it wasn't a big deal, that the United States was letting private industry take over its space efforts, you were wrong and really that's what's happened, which is the government has let more and more private industry in space and others areas take over, and that gives the power to private industry when you do it. So that's what happened. North Korean hackers have been targeting security researchers with a zero day. That may be why everybody who uses Apple devices got emergency updates yesterday, or is it day before yesterday? And if you're using now, I want to say that there's a lot of people say oh my God, you better update, it's a zero day.
You're Mac, your windows, you're not your windows. Your iPhone, your your watch windows update for other reasons. But but these are attacks that are very expensive and really targeted by nation states at dissidents, journalists. You know individuals in three letter agencies. Unless you're one of those, yeah, you and I, we don't have to.
0:08:53 - Mikah Sargent
We don't need to work, we should update.
0:08:55 - Leo Laporte
Yes, but it's not a panic, it's not.
0:08:57 - Mikah Sargent
Oh my goodness, have they already got me? No, you're not. You're not going to, you're not going to.
0:09:02 - Leo Laporte
Okay, yes, threat models an important thing to think of. Let's see what else I'm just looking. There's so many stories, it's hard to pick one.
0:09:14 - Mikah Sargent
Oh, what about the? Maybe we do don't want to talk about this. I did see that there was a what court of appeals that has said that several sort of government bodies have violated the First Amendment due to.
0:09:28 - Leo Laporte
This is an interesting case. So the issue was the federal government during covid reached out to social networks. And Well, I'll say I'll say it from the point of view of the government agencies that reached out Please take down misinformation, because they were in a public health crisis and people need to hear the truth, not some nut job saying, oh you know, covid's the worst in a cold, go ahead and have it or whatever. Yeah, and I think that was a reasonable use of some agencies. The initial injunction said no government agency should ever be able to talk to a social network, and then the fifth circuit has come back and ruled yes, that that was a violation of the Fifth Amendment, but it's important to understand that they very much narrowed the injunction.
Okay, so government health officials in the FBI, according to the Fifth Circuit, likely violated the First Amendment by improperly influencing tech companies decisions to remove or suppress posts on the coronavirus, oh, and elections too, because they were trying to damp down misinformation there, oh. However, the ruling was an improvement over the very broad temporary injunction which said no government agency can ever talk to the social network. Eff has said the new injunction is a thousand times better than the original order. The appeals court, throughout nine of the prohibitions, modified the temp to limit it. To quote efforts to coerce or significantly encourage social media companies to remove, delete, suppress or reduce, including through altering their algorithms, postage social media content containing protected free speech. So they did defend your right to to say things that are misinformation and that the government can't go to these social networks and say, hey, can you take this down?
0:11:30 - Mikah Sargent
Okay, because that is the one instance where it actually does become a matter of free speech. You hear people talk about free speech all the time. If I post on social media and a social media company says, no, that is not, they're allowed to do that. They're allowed to do that If the government has an impact on that. That is where it's truly a free speech issue. This is interesting because while you know, on the one side, yes, I want that misinformation to go away, at the same time, I want that protection of the First Amendment, and this was one instance where we may have seen it kind of work in the reverse.
0:12:04 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it's not over. I think they could continue to appeal this. They haven't decided yet. I don't think it's unreasonable, for if I'm the surgeon general and I see people on Twitter saying things that are actually endangering in my opinion, in my professional opinion, endangering Americans health, you could, I guess you could say that you should be able to call up Twitter and say look, I'm not telling you to take it down. Exactly A suggestion, just so you know this is misinformation and we believe it's causing people to die, because you know, free speech is not protected if it kills people. Right, you know there are limits to free speech, but the government, so I don't think it's wrong for them to do that.
Now, what the judge ruled was, essentially, they were taking over the decision making apparatus of Twitter and others, and if that's the case, you know it's not the surgeon general. The CDC, the White House and those are the three agencies involved should not really be allowed to call up Jack Dorsey, who was at the time CEO of Twitter, and say change your algorithm and stop promoting this stuff. You could, you could see. It's hard, though, if you're the White House, if it's a president calling, it is a little coercive to say hey, by the way, knock it off Right. So I don't, you know, I don't know.
0:13:23 - Mikah Sargent
The same applies if the president calls you and says let's try to falsify this election. It does have a, it does have a power, it does have a pressure. So it's yeah, understandably just the call from someone so high up with any suggestion. But I agree with you that the surgeon general should be able to go look, this is we have data that shows that it's killing people. We want you to see this data. You do with that what you will, yeah.
0:13:51 - Leo Laporte
This is why it's tricky. Exactly, it's very so, and I should add, the FBI was the fourth agency that was involved in this. No, all four of those are now enjoying from ever doing that again. So you know, I guess that's all right on balance, but what does it do? It puts the pressure on you and me and everybody who are getting information from social networks Facebook and Twitter and, by the way, newspapers that we should judge it intelligently and check with experts, ask your doctor the kind of thing, and and try to get to the facts that we now know, that is, that this kind of disinformation may well be spread Because it's legal and the government can't stop it. It's free speech and that's true. That's one of the things about the free speech. All right, I think we have now canoodled enough on the week's news. That's my decision. I don't want to put pressure on you.
0:14:44 - Mikah Sargent
No, the only other thing that there was to talk about was Google getting older, but I don't really have anything to say about it Google's 25. Yeah, Happy birthday.
0:14:50 - Leo Laporte
Google. Happy birthday, Google. And you know it's 20. Oh God, Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger. You can do that Mushroom, mushroom. Oh my God, Badger, badger, badger. 20, 20 years old, 20 years ago. Wow, that was the all the rage in the Internet.
0:15:07 - Mikah Sargent
I don't often say I feel old, but that does make me feel old.
0:15:10 - Leo Laporte
There are people today who don't even know we're talking about. Let's hope anyway. Yeah, it is my fervent prayer that there are many people today who go. What are they talking about? What is going on? All right, let me just I was just going to check here to see if I should take a break. Oh, maybe I should. I will, why not? And then we will go to our phones. Beautiful, do we have calls? Please call us. We do we have calls, we need your calls. But first I want to tell you about my sheets, our show today, brought to you by Brooke Linnan. I had a lovely night's sleep last night and I credit it to Brooke Linnan Brooke Linnan the best sheets, pillowcases, duvets and towels I've ever had.
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0:17:17 - Mikah Sargent
I'm a very warm sleeper, so those they're very breathable, which is important to me, and they are lovely. I just you sleep cool, I sleep cool, which is what I need.
0:17:27 - Leo Laporte
I am looking for that high satin, buttery, smooth feeling, and I got that with their luxe satin sheets. But you get to choose. That's the beauty. All of Brooklyn's materials are high quality. They use long staple cotton, among other things, so they're built to last. They have now organic bedding as well. If you want to go that way, brooklyn is the internet's favorite sheet wire cutter and good housekeeping. Agree, brooklyn has best in class bedding. Brooklyn's new fall collection will make you feel good in bed. Experience the difference for yourself. Visit InstaurorOnline at brooklynincom. And again, the offer code is techguy no S, just techguy For $20 off your online purchase of $100 or more, plus free shipping. B-r-o-k-b-r-o-k. Brooklynin-l-i-n-e-ncom promo code techguy T-E-C-H-G-U-I For $20 off your online purchase of $100 or more, plus free shipping. We love you, brooke Lynyn. Thank you so much for supporting Ask the Tech Guys. And now, without further ado, we go to the call. We go to the calls. I can let John Ashley pick. All right, john, that way it's on his shoulders if it's horrible.
0:18:44 - Caller
Well, not exactly, but there is a phone caller that I would think we should talk to.
0:18:48 - Leo Laporte
Okay, I see which one let's pick up from Lafayette, Louisiana. Mr or Ms Caller, come on down. Press star six to unmute Hello. Hi Hi, hey, welcome. So there, what's your name? Lance, lance. Yes, hi, lance. What can we do for you?
0:19:17 - Caller
Well, I wanted to use you guys opinion on the awesome problems that I have my due to my landlord's contract with Cox Cable TV. I can't get a good internet. I also wanted to start with Wilkerson's opinion on making a Adobe Apple sub out of OTC.
0:19:40 - Leo Laporte
Okay, so let's start first. I mean, obviously there must be people somewhere who enjoy Cox Cable. I'll tell you what. I'll find out because Tuesday we're going to do the Apple event. I'm going to be in my mom's basement on Cox Cable on fiber. Now my experience when, I was out there.
she's got fiber was. It was very good and very high speed, both she and my sister on Rhode Island, and they have Cox as their provider. So it really will vary, and this is the case with all cable companies for a couple of reasons. One, there's a national outfit, but then each local cable company is an individual franchise. So in Lafayette there's that's, and if you go to the office there's that Cox Cable office. That's the local franchise. So they have a certain amount of flexibility in how they operate their business.
And it may be one of the things that a cable company can, you know, one of the dials or knobs they can turn, is how much bandwidth they provide to the neighborhoods. So the way cable works, you know, they buy a parcel. That's a technical term. They buy a parcel of petabytes from their upstream internet service provider, which is, you know, going to be one of the big backbones or something like that. They buy that and then they parcel it out to neighborhoods they each neighborhood and the neighbor. How big is the neighborhood? Well, it depends. Again, this is another thing that varies, but each neighborhood will have its own uh head end that they connect into for the internet. So maybe they're buying a hundred gigabits per second and they say well, you know, we want to give Lance's neighborhood four megabits, or whatever four, let's say four gigabits, because there are a thousand customers there and they're going to divide that. And with a thousand customers remember, not everybody's online all at the same time that's generally going to be sufficient, and they kind of make that kind of calculation. Well, how much do you need per thousand people based on? You know statistics on the amount, the amount used by those thousand people. It's not a hundred percent 24 hours a day might be 43% at 6pm when everybody turns on Netflix. It might be 4% at three in the morning when everybody's fast asleep. So they know all these stats and they assign you a certain amount of internet.
Now, if more people move in, more customers sign up, more people use it more and guess what? One of the things that's happening in general is people are streaming a lot more. People are cutting the cord. Cox will maybe not have enough bandwidth in your neighborhood, so it could be that. That's. That's problem number one and all. What it is is, if you think about it, here's you, here's the head office where they have the hundred gigabytes, let's say, of capability.
There are many choke points along the way. The first one is that head end, your neighborhood distribution point, and how much it's getting Too many people on that one spot problems. But there's more because then it goes to your curb and then it goes into your house. I've had problems with my cable where the guy came out and checked my house they have meters, the signal's bad and checked it all the way up to the outside to the curb where it was cut. You know we have underground cables but in your case it might be going coming through the, the telephone poles. They would check that and say, oh yeah, we got a bad connection. He actually went, lifted up the you know concrete lid on the underground thing and went in there and spliced a new cable in.
0:23:08 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, my dad was a cable guy and had to go fix nodes all the time. I didn't know that, so he'd track it down to the node of the neighborhood.
0:23:15 - Leo Laporte
You should be talking about this.
0:23:17 - Mikah Sargent
It was, it was well. I those, some of those terms I didn't know because I wasn't paying attention to dad, but what does dad know? But yeah, I know, never know this huge contraption and oh no, it's not the house. And then you'd have to drive down and find the node and go fix stuff there.
0:23:30 - Leo Laporte
So there's these checkpoints. So this first is the node and there's the connection in the ground right outside your house or in the pole upside, and then it's into your house and it could be in your house too. One of the things people do often which is a bad thing is they put splitters, so the cables coming in the house and they split it, and they split it, and they split it again. If you don't have good splitters, they're attenuating the signal each time you split it and it can really degrade the signal.
0:23:54 - Mikah Sargent
First thing I did when I moved into the place I'm in now. There was one of those stupid splitters, so I replaced it with one that's powered. There you go, and so then it will help boost the signal there. It amplifies it.
0:24:04 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, so that's another thing. So you can see, lance, there's a whole bunch of stuff between you and the cable company and even then the cable company can be bad, but I'm going to say it's not, because Cox is all over the country and I know it's good, at least in Rhode Island. So it could be your franchise is not the best, but it could go all the way down. How do you, as a customer, what do you do about that?
Well, you got to call them and you got to see and you I'd ask your neighbors document make sure you ask your neighbors, for instance, one of the ways to know that it's your neighborhood as opposed to you is if it gets bad at prime time every night when everybody starts streaming, then that means they haven't provided enough bangers.
0:24:45 - Caller
Well, I agree, I'm not, but by the reason, office at this apartment complex has gotten new, has gotten a bunch of complaints from my neighbors on this and I'd be enough because these problems are not are not not due to the fees I paid for and unfortunately it makes it mandatory that the companies I could start the games. We reached the only days of blue rate.
0:25:27 - Leo Laporte
So that could be two things. That could be Cox again, or it could be the apartment complex. As soon as you say apartment complex, you're in an apartment complex. They are also fiddling with it. So, yeah, if you've got all your neighbors complaining, then there are two possible. First of all, you know it's not in your house, probably that it's either the apartment complex and what they're doing to the signal when they get it, or it's Cox itself, or some combination of the two. We can't, I can't fix it for you, but I think the first thing to do is talk to the department manager.
0:25:54 - Mikah Sargent
Yes, and see if they can and if, if you are paying for your internet through your apartment complex versus if you were paying directly to the cable company and you were the one who had to get it set up and you call the support team, that can kind of help you determine which which is which. Because a place that I lived before yeah, I had to talk to the landlord and the landlord handled all of that, because it was a little bit of a day.
0:26:18 - Leo Laporte
They may be the maybe the customer, as opposed to you being the customer. So that's the.
0:26:21 - Caller
I'm not well, I well, I well, I, I, I, I, I understood. The one one is that that that they pay in the field only things in the day. Provides with COX is free basic cable TV.
0:26:35 - Leo Laporte
Okay, all right, so they don't provide the internet. One of the things that really is happening right now is that cable companies are starting to realize that it's over and that TV is not their future, that internet providing, providing internet is their future, and so that's why they've been raising the cost of internet inch by inch, so that it comes close to the cost of cable, and that's why court cutting is no longer a real savings, because often you have to pay more once you aggregate everything all together. I know my YouTube TV is now almost 75 bucks a month, which is what my cable bill was right, so I haven't saved any money. If you add on top of that the 60 bucks that I pay Comcast for my cable, I'm now paying out of 35 bucks instead of, you know, 75. So this is a big transition we're going through right now.
Cox, comcast, spectrum notice what's going on with Spectrum and ESPN. They don't really care that Disney pulled the plug on them, even though their customers must be screaming bloody murder, but they don't. They're. In fact. If you call Spectrum now and say, hey, what happened to ESPN? They'll say, yeah, we suggest in fact, we're going to give you a free week of a Fubo. We suggest you transition over to an over the top streaming service like Hulu, fubo, youtube TV, because basically, we don't care. We know we're going to lose you as a TV customer. That's why Disney is. You know, normally these cable, these carriage things get solved before football season starts. It always happens. It always happens the week before NFL starts. But college football and NFL and people and people are going crazy. I don't think Spectrum has solved it, have they? I don't think they have. So in that case they're just saying, yeah, we know you're not going to watch TV with us, so never mind.
0:28:28 - Caller
I want to be as TV goes of all. I, I, I, I, I, I, I care about the programming from from like, like, like the discovery in the network and the national geography and those you can get all of those over the top.
0:28:44 - Leo Laporte
So by over the top, by the way, that's a term of art, meaning over the internet as a I don't know why we don't just say over the internet, but anyway you can get all of those over the top.
That's what the cable companies call us, yeah, and so I think really that's the future. But first you're going to get good internet and that's a problem. So I'm not sure exactly what to suggest, except first call the apartment manager, see if they could do anything. If everybody in the apartment is screaming, then clearly that's, you know, that's where that issue is. You know is coming up, is, is, is at the apartment. So you call them first. They want to keep their tenants happy. Hey, it's great to talk to you, lance. I move on because I don't want to go more than 20 or 30 minutes on a call. I want to be fair to everybody. It's good to talk to you. Thank you so much for calling in 888-724-2884. We love, we love our phone callers.
0:29:41 - Mikah Sargent
Yes, we do.
0:29:42 - Leo Laporte
All right, I want to say I haven't talked to our friend in Miami in a long time, so he's had his hand up for three weeks. Oh really, yes, so.
0:29:53 - Mikah Sargent
Chris, come on down, you're the next contestant.
0:30:01 - Leo Laporte
Oh, do you hang up?
0:30:03 - Mikah Sargent
No, he's in the on air room. Ok, so we're just waiting for the unmute, unmute, unmute.
0:30:09 - Leo Laporte
Oh well. I don't. I don't have anything. Shall I go to John? Yeah, let's go to John. All right, I'm pushing buttons. Nothing happens, hello John.
0:30:25 - Mikah Sargent
All right, I think we do have John. They're here, they're just muted. Yeah, hello, hello.
0:30:33 - Leo Laporte
John, where are you calling from? I hear you, I'm.
0:30:38 - Leo Laporte0
I'm calling from Leesburg, virginia, beautiful Leesburg, right, it's in northern Virginia, it's near Washington. Yeah it's a little town with historic districts and all this stuff which you know is OK.
0:30:54 - Leo Laporte
It's OK if you like history. If you like old stuff, I guess yeah.
0:30:59 - Leo Laporte0
The streets are too narrow and there's a bar in the middle and since I can't see it makes walking a little bit of pain in there.
0:31:09 - Leo Laporte
It's not cobblestones, I hope. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. Do you use a stick? Yeah, yeah, so I do. I know it seems like that would be hard on an uneven surface.
0:31:22 - Leo Laporte0
Well, it's not but. But when they put obstacles in the way, then you have to be your left, you have to be right. Yeah, so it's a little bit annoying. So I have a few questions here for you. Yes, indeed, you're mine. I bought this keychron QDR Pro.
0:31:38 - Leo Laporte
Oh, I hope on my recommendation. I love my keychrons.
0:31:42 - Leo Laporte0
Well, yeah, it was, and I wasn't sure which is just got different options, so I chose the brown switches. Yeah, and and. But when I bought it there was a sound file that that made clicking noises on the order page. But there's no clicking noise, is it was that? Was that wrong on their part.
0:32:06 - Leo Laporte
Well, you know, I've looked at those YouTube videos, keychron, but Keycon makes really expensive. Hmm, if, john, can you hand me my keychron. It's right over there, expensive. Expensive keyboards overengineered or well, and I get a hundred pound.
0:32:20 - Leo Laporte0
That's right. It's combination Keyboard and weightlifting.
0:32:27 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, they're very heavy, but you want heavy because that means they're solid, right, and you're banging on this. This is. This is a wireless keychron. I have one at home as well. I think this is the Q one. I'm not sure which one I got, but one I got red and one I got brown. I like a lot of fancy keyboards. You could choose the electronics switches, and some are more clicky than others and they have YouTube videos and you know they turn the microphone up pretty well.
0:32:54 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, I get some more mode.
0:32:56 - Leo Laporte
So, all right, can you hear the clicking on that A little bit, but I'm on. I don't hear any clicking, no clicking at all. Huh, you want to know?
0:33:08 - Leo Laporte0
It would be nice, you know well, I don't.
0:33:12 - Leo Laporte
I've never returned anything to he run there in China, but I think that they probably, given the this is a $300 keyboard, given the cost might mean.
0:33:23 - Leo Laporte0
I couldn't get my Amazon. I had to pay 20 bucks shipping.
0:33:28 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yeah, they ship from China Direct. They may not be, but they make them in China.
0:33:34 - Leo Laporte0
I got it as quick as I did. I know it was going to be.
0:33:36 - Leo Laporte
No, I was surprised how quickly they came to. They really Look. I am very happy with them. But I think you should be able to say I don't like these switches. They don't have to send you a whole new keyboard. They can literally replace the switches. So I mean, that's one of the advantages of these. These are basically. You can disassemble them and change the switches Apparently cherry blue and cherry green are much louder than. I don't think key crime sells cherry anymore. I think they sell their own key caps.
0:34:08 - Leo Laporte0
That's why I got them. It was brown or banana.
0:34:13 - Leo Laporte
Or I can't remember if these are red or brown. I'll have to look, I think those are browns, Leo. These are browns.
0:34:20 - Caller
The click coming from the blues and the reds that usually comes from like an internal mechanism. There's something.
0:34:25 - Leo Laporte
These are these. The click is coming from hitting the back. Your click is coming from bottoming out the key. That's Benito knows everything. Yeah, benito is our third tech guy, so and you so you could tell these are brown just from the sound. Yeah, because I have browns too. Yeah, I like the browns. I don't want them to be too clicky because I'm on the air right. You don't want to hear me typing Right, but you want to click so that you know you've hit the key.
0:34:49 - Leo Laporte0
Yeah, although you know it's pretty good. You know, with, even without, the click is great, there's a lot of.
0:34:56 - Leo Laporte
I love these because there's a lot of travel. That's supposedly better for you than the chick like keyboards. Better for your, your carpal tunnel, you know, your repetitive stress injuries. I like you, know I like it because I know I hit the key. I typed it. It just makes it easier and of course you're a touch type, Obviously. So so really knowing you know where the home row is and knowing you've hit those keys, oh, that's very important.
0:35:21 - Leo Laporte0
And the F and J are so indented. It's wonderful that way.
0:35:25 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, they're. Not only do they have a dot on them, as most keyboards do, but they are more indented Isn't that wild? And so you can feel that your finger, your index finger, is right where it belongs. I agree, yeah, I'm not a touch typist, I, I'm kind of like a fake, you know.
0:35:41 - Mikah Sargent
I was no, but.
0:35:42 - Leo Laporte
I don't have to look at it, so I guess I am, but I'm kind of more like I learned on my own. I never studied in school. You studied in school. Yeah, we had to learn, you had you know. Mrs Avery, teach you and whoever, and actually her name was Mrs Typewriter.
0:35:56 - Mikah Sargent
Mrs Typewriter taught him.
0:35:58 - Leo Laporte
And not Mavis speaking. Mavis speaking didn't teach you.
0:36:01 - Mikah Sargent
Mavis, speaking was her teacher. Oh, ok, yeah.
0:36:03 - Leo Laporte
You know, one thing I like this would be a complete uselessness to you, john is you control the LEDs in the background. I've got it set up so it lights up briefly when I hit a key. That's kind of how I know I fit. You can't even see.
0:36:17 - Leo Laporte0
Now there's a funny dial on the keyboard around, yeah that's volume.
0:36:21 - Leo Laporte
What about that's for volume? Well, for your computer. What do you mean? For what? For the? You haven't do anything. Well, it works with Mac and Windows. There's a switch on the back that'll tell you whether you're on a PC or a Mac.
0:36:36 - Leo Laporte0
Now I have to switch, but the volume doesn't do anything around.
0:36:41 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yeah, that's the. It works on both my Linux machines and my Macs.
0:36:45 - Mikah Sargent
I thought any configuration or did you have to do?
0:36:46 - Leo Laporte
No, it worked out of the box and if you push it in, it mutes. Yeah.
0:36:52 - Caller
Oh really, you can program that knob to do whatever yeah it's programmable.
0:36:55 - Leo Laporte
In fact they have special what's the name of the key crumb software? We special software. Yes like Q max or something, and so that's software you can install, and then you can totally program every function of this. In fact, the one I have at home has as four programmable function keys on the left that are that's oh really, yeah, I think that's a Q3. I can't remember what do you use, benito, you like key crumb too?
0:37:19 - Caller
I have a key crumb. I have a Q5. Mine's the shorter. The shorter ones the slim.
0:37:24 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, this is 75%.
0:37:26 - Leo Laporte0
I think it's a little smaller, but I see I wanted the numpad, so that was the other oh yeah, yes, you got a bigger one, yeah. I got a hundred and eight keys, according to 108.
0:37:38 - Leo Laporte
What do you do with all those keys?
0:37:40 - Leo Laporte0
That's right. Well, there's a key that indicate that they're f 13 and 14.
0:37:46 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I like having a 13. I only go up, mine only goes to 12.
0:37:50 - Leo Laporte0
You're. I'm not sure what the purpose of those are.
0:37:52 - Leo Laporte
Again. All of that is assignable and they so. I have never used the customizing software. I like it out of the boxes. I had see antsy keyboard. I want to be standard but you can totally customize it. If that dial is not working, maybe there is some it worked for you're using Windows.
0:38:11 - Leo Laporte0
Well, I'm using, I have Linux, I have Windows, I have Mac. But I use it. But for Windows and Linux I have a KVM.
0:38:24 - Leo Laporte
Right, so I have this. By the way, one of the reasons I got the wireless one is because I could switch the Bluetooth with function one to three, so I can use up to three different computers with the same keyboard. Exactly, I don't even use a KVM. So this because my mouse does the same thing. This has a switch, the middle switch if it's switched all the way over to the right is Windows and all the way to the left is Mac, and my experience was Windows works with Linux as well and I have used that knob on without modification on both Windows and Mac the switch between Bluetooth and USB.
0:39:00 - Leo Laporte0
0:39:01 - Leo Laporte
Bluetooth. It's in off position. What is that? The middle one's off. So that means the battery just save battery. That's just turned off. So all the way to the right of the keyboard, as you're looking down on the keyboard, is Bluetooth. All the way to the left is cable. So this one you can plug in a cable. It has a Type C connector. Oh yeah, and use it as a USB.
0:39:25 - Leo Laporte0
I use that for not all my stuff For the KVM.
0:39:29 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, you need a hard wire to the KVM. I mean I'm very happy with these, but you know there are a million keyboards out there. Andy and I go like DOS keyboard, dos, dos keyboard. I got a DOS keyboard on his recommendation, but once I started using Keycruns I just don't think I'll ever go back. These are so fantastic.
0:39:48 - Leo Laporte0
Oh yeah, these are wonderful.
0:39:50 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, and I have an old IBM Northgate keyboard Now that clicks that's Buckling Springs, and those actually click. Before you bottom out, they go and those are audible clicks if you want those.
0:40:04 - Leo Laporte0
Now, the other thing I like about this keyboard is that my keyboard I used to have, I would hit the entity and the backslash would go off as well, which kind of confused all the poor software.
0:40:16 - Leo Laporte
Is that because those are key? You know those keys are proximate. The backslash is right above that. Or maybe you're it's not you accidentally mashing them both.
0:40:25 - Leo Laporte0
No, it wasn't, but this keyboard never does that that's probably an electronic malfunction?
0:40:31 - Leo Laporte
I would guess. Yeah, no, this keyboard is super precise. I've never, you know, every keyboard. You got to get used to it at first. My test is how fast I could type my Bitwarden password, because I type that all the time and in order to type it, because I've got numbers and special characters in upper and lower case, I have to do a lot of manipulation of the keyboard, if I can. You know doing it over and over again get fast with my Bitwarden. You know password fault key. I can't. It's like 60 character password. Then I know I got a keyboard and do it accurately without looking at it. Then I know I've got a keyboard. I can, I can, I can stay with. Yeah, I mean, I know this. I didn't mean to turn this into an ad for Keychron. I would say contact them. They might send you the other switches, the more clicky switches. Just say hey, I'm blind. I listened to your YouTube video. It's not a clicky, they weren't. Can I have what's? What's your clickiest?
0:41:27 - Leo Laporte0
I've never had good results, kind of contacted by the way, Are they in China?
0:41:32 - Leo Laporte
I know the keyboards are made come from China. I don't know if the company it's either Chinese or Taiwanese. It's one of those. Oh, maybe it's Taiwan. Yeah, yeah, I don't, yeah, so maybe they don't have the best customer service.
0:41:46 - Leo Laporte0
No, they seem not to. They love sending you emails.
0:41:51 - Leo Laporte
But yeah, the knob is programmable. It's designed to enhance your creative workflow, and an aluminum rotary encoder allows you to easily customize the knob to your desired key or macro commands, like zooming in and out, adjusting screen brightness, brush size, volume, selecting video clips or photos back, like you on Baldur's Gate 3, you can have it. I don't know what would you do, what would you use this for? On Baldur's Gate, you zoom in, maybe the knob, yeah.
0:42:19 - Mikah Sargent
Switch between dialogue options.
0:42:22 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, maybe switch between weapons. That would be good for that.
0:42:25 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, Aluminum rotary knob.
0:42:27 - Leo Laporte
Actually, it'd be good for Starfield. I could switch between weapons and Starfield with this, the Alhambra, is terrible.
0:42:33 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, any RPG or your, it's completely programmable. Completely Inventory items.
0:42:40 - Leo Laporte0
Now. So my Windows doesn't have a Bluetooth, but I could get a dongle, I guess.
0:42:45 - Leo Laporte
Well, you know, I mean, I wouldn't worry about that. Did you get the wireless keyboard? Not all of them are wireless. Yeah, you did, I did. Well, that's why I got this. So I got this and I got a Logitech mouse that allowed me to switch between three computers. So when I want to go, I have a Mac Studio and I have a Linux game machine, and it's easy. I just press function one to go back to the Mac, function two to go to the Linux box, and the mouse underneath has a button, and then it makes it very easy.
I don't need a key, I don't want to use a KVM. Yeah, I'm using the same monitor, same keyboard, same mouse with two different computers and it works beautifully.
0:43:20 - Leo Laporte0
Oh, that's great.
0:43:21 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, All right. Hey, John, it's always a pleasure talking to you. You come up with the toughest questions, yeah well that's the idea. Stump the tech guys. I'm really glad to hear from you. I hope things are going well and I hope you enjoy your key crime. Maybe you're going to end up just having to buy another set of switches, I guess. Have you changed? Have you done that? Benito, changed your switches.
0:43:46 - Leo Laporte0
I have not like a page in the deck to take it apart. Yeah, I don't know.
0:43:48 - Caller
I haven't changed my switches, but they give you tools to do it. It's actually pretty simple if you want to do it.
0:43:52 - Leo Laporte
It looks like it's easy.
0:43:53 - Caller
I mean that's not hard, it's easy, but can get complex, depending on what kind of switch you have. You choose to loop them or not. And it gets crazy, doesn't it? It can get crazy. This is talking I'm talking from experience.
0:44:04 - Leo Laporte
Do you like John Ashley? Do you like? You prefer the cherries or?
0:44:08 - Caller
I actually do not prefer a cherry, I'd prefer the standard ones. I go for more different color switches, like I have a set of what we call Hoco Violets See when you get into the key chords, it's something else.
0:44:21 - Leo Laporte
Something about it that just get people really nerdy.
0:44:24 - Caller
I got to be careful because I don't, depending on what kind of switches, I can get certain types of lubrication that has like a little more of like you know, I've never lubed my switches, I just I feel like I shouldn't have to.
0:44:37 - Caller
Personal. You know everybody, Everybody has a keyboard. That's right, it's always interfaces.
0:44:42 - Leo Laporte
Your inner put device, your input devices, your mouse, your keyboard, your monitor are the are the most important part of your computer. They're, they're what the human interface devices. So yeah, you want to. If you're using them a lot, you want to get them right. And you're a musician, I know, and a gamer, benito, so you have specific demands on your keyboards. John Ashley, I don't know what you do at home, but you obviously care about your keyboards as well. It's interesting, we got a bunch of keyboard you were nerds.
0:45:11 - Caller
And a tip what if you live in the area? In the Bay Area there's a local retailer that sells key cons.
0:45:16 - Leo Laporte
No yeah. So you can go in and try them. I got. John, you got to move out here. Forget Nova, that's not here. So where's the retailer? Central computers oh, I love central down there in the mission, like a bunch of them. Yeah yeah, I did a video for them once and how to build a computer.
0:45:32 - Caller
So I mean I guess you could also order parts from them, key con parts from them, if you want to get.
0:45:36 - Leo Laporte
Oh that's, you want to shop locally, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's for the Bay Area. There might be somebody in.
0:45:40 - Caller
Nova, they deliver to, so if you want to shop on their web store, you can. Central computer yeah, central computer.
0:45:45 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, they are real nerds in there.
0:45:48 - Leo Laporte2
Oh really, Someday I'll get my VHS.
0:45:50 - Leo Laporte
It's actually, I think, in my office, the VHS. Oh, I cut myself as I was working in the case and they didn't edit it out. I just started oh, I'm bleeding. Well, don't, don't do that. And then let's show you what else. Just try not to cut yourself on the case.
0:46:07 - Mikah Sargent
I thought you're going to say they came out and just wrapped your finger. While it's still going, wrap my finger, wow.
0:46:12 - Leo Laporte
Keep turning them the camera.
0:46:15 - Mikah Sargent
What are the keyboard nerds?
0:46:16 - Leo Laporte
called Keybabies, keybabies, sugar daddies, keybabies, you want to go with that.
0:46:21 - Caller
Mike, we can coin that. Hey, all you keybabies, how about key?
0:46:25 - Leo Laporte
nuts Key holes. I have another question if you have time.
0:46:28 - Leo Laporte0
I'm a keyhole. Go ahead, john. The other question is I have an AirPods Pro and is the sound much better, or is it worth getting these second generation AirPods Pro?
0:46:42 - Leo Laporte
I think so.
0:46:43 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, so I had my AirPods Pro for a long time and they started to not be as good as they once were. Just there were a bunch. Yeah, I had some sound issues with them, some clicking and stuff, and most of that was covered under the extended warranty that they had. But my dog got ahold of one of mine and so I knew that when I took it in they were going to say well, there are dog marks on it. That's why it's broken, not because it's just your dog ate your. Airpods.
My dog ate my AirPods. So I had to upgrade and I was so happy that I did. The second generation, the noise cancellation, is better, I think so.
0:47:19 - Leo Laporte
Noticeably Plus firmware update coming for them in the next week or two when Apple pushes out iOS 17.
0:47:26 - Mikah Sargent
0:47:27 - Leo Laporte
And all these new features.
0:47:28 - Mikah Sargent
Some special. What I love is that over time it learns your behavior and it will change the volume, if you want it to, depending on what you're listening to. So if they notice that you, when you're listening to spoken word stuff, turn down the volume or turn up the volume versus when you're listening to music it's another way, Then it starts to learn that and can automatically that's how these devices should be.
0:47:49 - Leo Laporte
We were attaching them to very smart computers. They should learn and get better over time. That's really cool. I didn't know they did that. Yeah, that's really cool.
0:47:58 - Leo Laporte0
I may have a little bit of hearing loss, so that would be great to get that.
0:48:04 - Leo Laporte
You can also get Mimi, which is a nice little app for your iPhone to do a hearing test.
0:48:09 - Leo Laporte0
Yeah, it doesn't work with voiceover though. Oh, that's really.
0:48:13 - Mikah Sargent
See, I'll reach out to the developers too. Oh, do you know those guys? No, I just I tend to do that Like yeah, getting out to them saying, hey, look, we've heard, yeah, your whole audience.
0:48:23 - Leo Laporte
Exactly and, if you think about it, a hearing test should absolutely support accessibility for crying out loud.
0:48:30 - Leo Laporte0
Action, but yeah, it kind of it doesn't work right. I mean, they tried but it doesn't quite. You know, make it during the test itself.
0:48:40 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yeah, because it needs to, obviously, or you won't be able to, because what it does is it plays beeps in your ear and you have to tap your phone. Yes or no, I heard that. Is there going to be an AirPod Pro 3?
0:48:54 - Mikah Sargent
Is there going to be one? We've heard rumors. I don't know if the pros are going to get an upgrade or if it's just going to be that, but probably we'll see new AirPods Pro, so you may want to wait because then, yeah, because then you're doing a huge upgrade from AirPods AirPods 3.
0:49:12 - Leo Laporte
You. If they're going to do it, they're going to do it Tuesday, right?
Yeah, they're not going to yeah the latest rumors, there won't even be an October event. Yeah, mark Gurman says he doesn't think there's going to be enough to make it out worthwhile if they announced new AirPods. The only reason they might be you know the Ming-Chi quote said no, no, no, not till next year, next fall for the AirPod Pro 3. But the reason they might want to update them is because they're getting rid of the lightning jack. We hear on the iPhone, and that's the. So make everything the last place that still uses the lightning, I mean the last you know current product that you know if you have an old Apple TV remote.
0:49:47 - Leo Laporte0
I like the light, only because you can't put it in wrong. Well, yeah, that's one thing. Well, the USB is also true. But if I get, if I have to switch to USB-C, that I have this camera kit, uh, that's not going to work anymore, right, but you might not need it anymore because, well yes.
Well, the point is I I have a DAC that I like to use, my wire headphone with. Yeah, I do that because I love my. I have an old P7, which may be old, but it still works quite well we want to hear a lot of complaints.
0:50:25 - Mikah Sargent
if you know when they go to Type-C and it seems pretty clear they're going to do that We'll do yeah, and I think we'll get adapters as needed, and it stinks to have to buy adapters, but I think Apple often yeah, I have lots of adapters around here, yeah.
0:50:39 - Leo Laporte
I look forward to the day when I only have to have a Type-C charger for everything. That will be nice.
0:50:44 - Mikah Sargent
One charger to rule them all.
0:50:47 - Leo Laporte
I'm going, um, I'm going, as you know, to be my mom's flying out tomorrow and I'm packing together my kit so that we can stream, on Tuesday, the Apple event and everything is Type-C except for my iPhone. So I have a bunch of Type-C cables and uh, and as soon as, uh, as soon as I get there, you know, I'll have to have that one lightning cable because I'm going to use my iPhone as the camera. I decided oh nice, you prefer E. Now you use E cam for iOS today.
0:51:19 - Mikah Sargent
Yes, to show the phone on screen, but when it comes to being a camera. Camo is the way or continuity camera. Yes, Continuity camera does. Yeah, that's true, you can use continuity camera. I just doesn't have as much uh control yeah.
0:51:33 - Leo Laporte
I think I'll use camo. Um, john, I'm going to, by the way, call in about half an hour early to make sure my setup is. I did some stuff, I bought some stuff, alex Lindsey, uh-oh, oh boy, geez, I got some of these nano lights that Alex uses. They're just fluorescent tubes, oh, and I got three of them, and what temperature? I don't know what temperature I should set them at 56.
0:51:58 - Leo Laporte0
Destroy your RF connectivity.
0:52:00 - Leo Laporte
Uh, no, no, they're designed for this and Alex recommended them. So if I would hope, if it buzzed on the they're, they're, they're, uh, battery powered, so that they now get plugged in.
0:52:10 - Caller
Oh how, how tall are they, they're not, they're not that big, okay, so I should have brought them in.
0:52:15 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I'm curious, but, uh, I got a whole kit just designed for this. Alex or somebody recommended a 30 inch goose neck clamp that you put on in your phone. Holds it, but if my phone goes up and down, that won't be good. Uh, I'm bringing a. Uh, the microphone I'm bringing is a Sennheiser drum microphone that I really like, so we'll see how that sounds compared to the PR 40. Yeah, it's going to be fun, and then you're going to get to see my mom's basement. My mom might even totter in, oh and say hello. I'm hoping she will. Uh, as we do. Uh, I'm going to do two shows from there. I'm going to do we love mom. Yeah, mom's great. I'm going to do um, well, who?
0:52:53 - Mikah Sargent
was that? Was that Chris? I think that was. Yeah, chris from Miami.
0:52:57 - Leo Laporte
Hey, john, I'm going to let you go. We're waiting for Sam, april Sam and our car guy. I'm going to ask him about this new, uh full self-driving thing that Elon said. But since we've got Chris from Miami uh chiming in, you figured out how to mute, huh.
0:53:14 - Caller
I did not. Well, you know what I? Well, I'm here now. A video is on everything. You know, I was thinking about mom because he hasn't been anywhere and I so miss her. And then I send them messages to Lisa, you know, let Leo know that I'm sending some prayers to mom and uh, to the family and everything. You know I'm going to, she should chime in. I mean, I'm way down.
0:53:35 - Leo Laporte
Well, I told her, you know, and actually I'm not really in her basement, although she has a basement, I could go, but it's like a dungeon, but I could go down, hold on.
0:53:43 - Mikah Sargent
I love this. This is a fake story. There is no basement.
0:53:47 - Leo Laporte
Well, you know you're supposed to say hey, chris, you're supposed to say my mom's casters are in their mom's basement and their jammies.
I just flip over, yeah, but uh, actually it's cause I want to ethernet into her cable modem, so it's like her office or something. So it's her office, which is next to her bedroom, and so she'll be there. She says I'm looking forward to listening. I hope she comes in and says hi, she's very self-conscious cause she's gotten old and and you know, I know how she feels we get all wrinkly and old and nobody wants we think nobody wants to see us. But I know that Chris from Miami wants to see her, so I'll tell her that I love mom, Chris is waiting for her.
0:54:22 - Caller
Mom's a rock star.
0:54:23 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, chris, we're waiting for Sam. I thought you could, since you did get in, go ahead, fill that time.
0:54:31 - Caller
All right. Well, let's start off. You know. Good afternoon my friends. I had to get the S in there. Welcome back, Mikah Sargent. We missed you bunches. I kept you in my prayers, by the way. By the way, I heard you had some of this affliction going on, but you're too good looking to get six. So you know, get back to work. You know Leo's crushed it. He's been crushing it on his own lately.
0:54:50 - Leo Laporte
No, no, no. It's horrible without. It's literally horrible without Mikah. I just I don't like doing the show without him. So Well, I am glad to be back. I know I'm feeling better for sure it's frustrating.
0:55:02 - Mikah Sargent
I tried to get.
0:55:02 - Leo Laporte
COVID so that we could both take a time off, you know, but because Lisa had it too, yeah. You all went to podcast movement. Yes, and you got it. Max got it and Lisa got it Three out of the four people we sent to podcast movement. I'm glad.
0:55:14 - Mikah Sargent
I didn't go. I'm glad you did. I was thinking the same thing, Honestly. I'm honestly truly glad that you didn't go.
0:55:19 - Leo Laporte
She said I don't want to go with you, I'm taking Mikah, that's okay, fine, okay.
0:55:27 - Caller
We all want to take Mikah, we all want to trip with them Mikah's the greatest.
0:55:31 - Mikah Sargent
So I missed him while he was gone, but I'm glad he. I'm glad to be back, glad to be feeling better and not having to just sit around.
0:55:36 - Leo Laporte
And and he's wearing his Star Wars socks, which is kind of cool.
0:55:39 - Caller
They do. They look at you with your Star Wars socks. I got mine.
0:55:43 - Leo Laporte
Those are spectacular, aren't they good? Do you want to see what it says on the bottom? That was a sexy bae. I don't know what it says.
0:55:49 - Caller
Yeah, that would be you.
0:55:50 - Leo Laporte
0:55:51 - Mikah Sargent
I was like actually it says sex bae, sex bae, I'm the sex bae.
0:56:00 - Leo Laporte
I don't know where these came from Probably, oh my God, perfect, that's that cheap suit company that we get stuff from Cheap suit. You know where I got cheap suit company on my?
0:56:10 - Mikah Sargent
feet. I know Cheap suit company Campbell's? No, not so, oh you suit. You sent in little box tops from Campbell's and they sent you those.
0:56:19 - Leo Laporte
The cheap suits that I get.
0:56:21 - Caller
You know that they're like Crazy, it's like oh, those are the.
0:56:27 - Leo Laporte
0:56:27 - Mikah Sargent
Flake socks you got from Tony the Tiger.
0:56:30 - Leo Laporte
Tony, the Tiger came over the boxes.
0:56:32 - Mikah Sargent
The box cereal Exactly Tell me Samable Sam, it's a lie. Please Trouble already Do you have a question for us.
0:56:41 - Caller
The car guy. No, you're not you know what?
Well, a little bit, you know, because the big deal was. Well, I did send Lisa an email about Mac Break Weekly this past week with Jason Snell and I you know we all like Jason, we appreciate him, but you know I got to say he got, he got a little bit heavy there with you in the conversation and I did mention it to Leo that you know maybe he needs to cut back on the coffee and in conversation with you because I think he got a little bit much there with you.
0:57:07 - Leo Laporte
Hey, I don't even remember getting a little bit.
0:57:09 - Caller
I clearly remember it wasn't anything heavy, but I think you know Was he snitty Was he a snit. He was. He was, yeah, a little bit judgmental, yeah, you know about me.
0:57:20 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, just a little bit of conversation with you.
0:57:22 - Leo Laporte
I need to go Well, if he was, no doubt was well deserved. What episode.
0:57:28 - Caller
Well, I don't remember that at all. I'm on, you know. I'm on Leo, I'm not on the club. It's easy.
0:57:34 - Leo Laporte
It's easy to when you're watching it, think that there's a tension between people. But we know each other so well. We're like old married couple, or what is it? So we couplet cup. Three is four. So I thought we were in a relationship, we all know each other really well and as a result, we sometimes sound like you know we're we're beefing.
0:57:58 - Mikah Sargent
but it never really is. It just doesn't like it when dad and dad fight, that's all dad and dad love to fight.
0:58:04 - Leo Laporte
That's what dad and dad live for. All right, we got to go, chris. Sam's here. Sorry, chris. Thank you, chris, from Miami. Sam's here. Sam's here.
0:58:12 - Caller
Have a safe flight, leo. Thank you, I'll see you in Miami.
0:58:16 - Leo Laporte
If the plane gets diverted, knock on wood.
0:58:19 - Mikah Sargent
That's just like a horrible to be diverted to Miami.
0:58:24 - Leo Laporte
Something's gone terribly wrong. My flight is to Boston, boston, uh, sam at bull. Sam Ed is principal researcher at guide house insights, he is the host of wheel bearings, the wheel bearings podcast, and he is my car guy, our car guy, and he's going to join us in just a moment. Our show today, brought to you by Miro. We love Miro. Actually, mike has done a great Miro template for us.
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And if you're feeling some meeting fatigue, miro user's report saving up to 80 hours per user per year that's like an extra two week vacation every year, and all that just from streamlining conversations and feedback, if you're ready to be part of the million users who join Miro every month. I've got something for you your first three boards are free, so now you can start working better together for nothing. Mirocom slash podcast. This is the best way to see what Miro can do for your team Timers when you're in your zoom meetings, ice breakers, and go on and on. I love Miro. It's so powerful, so cool and it is what you need, what you want it to be. No matter what you need, miro M I R. Ocom slash podcast. We thank him so much for supporting. Ask the tech guys. Hi, Sam Sam. How are you?
1:03:02 - Sam Abuelsamid
Hello Mikah and Leo, how are you?
1:03:05 - Leo Laporte
I wanted to ask you. I know I'm sure you have something you want to talk about, but you know you know me. I like to derail the conversation immediately. I'm good with that.
In the new Walter Isis and biography of Elon Musk, which comes out Tuesday, there have been a numerous kind of revelations. One of them was and I maybe you knew this already, I hadn't heard it before that Elon at some point decided we are not going to do full self driving the way we've done it in the past. We are going to use our natural advantage, because every Tesla has a camera and they apparently have millions and millions of video clips from from these Teslas including, I guess, mine. I didn't even know they were recording them and saving them that they can use to train full self driving. So they decided to take advantage of something that they really have a moat no one else can do this and train their next generation full self driving which is not out yet on these videos instead of the way they've been doing it. Had you heard this before? Was this a revelation?
1:04:14 - Sam Abuelsamid
Actually I think. I think Mr Isaacson has misunderstood what he was told much, as I think many people made the same case about this Really.
1:04:26 - Leo Laporte
Oh, no, that was me just going what.
1:04:32 - Sam Abuelsamid
Just as many people said about his Steve Jobs book, tesla has been grabbing short video clips from Tesla from customers vehicles for years and doing this this is how they've done it all along because, unlike most, many, most companies that are developing automated driving systems, tesla does not really have much of a significant, much of a notable fleet of internal vehicles that are just collecting data. You've seen Waymo and Cruz and other vehicles driving around San Francisco for years, learning With test drivers in there.
1:05:09 - Leo Laporte
1:05:10 - Sam Abuelsamid
They're just. They're just recording data constantly and the difference is that they are capturing all of the data from all of the sensors for the entire drive. Those cars will come back to the garage at the end of a shift and offload several terabytes of data into the and upload that onto the servers of those companies and then that gets processed and they pick out the relevant things, the thing, any anomalies from that data. But they capture 100% of all the data. Tesla doesn't do that.
Tesla only captures a few seconds of worth of clips when they think something might have happened that might be anomalous. That might be worth taking a look at, because if you look at all those other AVs, they have racks of hard drives in the back that they're using to capture all this data. Tesla doesn't have that kind of onboard storage and you certainly can't be streaming all that video data in real time. So when they detect that something possibly anomalous, or if the driver is using autopilot or the FSD beta and they intervene, they'll use that as a trigger to capture a short snippet of video data. So this is not new, this is how.
Tesla has always done it.
1:06:32 - Leo Laporte
Let me read from the excerpt CNBC published from the biography on full self-driving 12, which is coming out Until then, Tesla's autopilot system had been relying on a rules-based approach.
1:06:45 - Sam Abuelsamid
No, that's true. I mean, that's false. That's false. Tesla has never used it's always been an AI-based approach.
1:06:52 - Leo Laporte
The neural network planner, and he's talking about Deval Shroff, a member of the autopilot team, who, in a meeting in December, according to Isaacson, explained to Elon we've got all this video. It's like chat cheap BT, but for cars we process. This is a quote from the book attributed to Shroff. We process an enormous amount of data on how real human drivers acted in complex driving situation. Then we train the computer's neural network to mimic that. Until then, the autopilot had been relying on a rules-based approach. The neural network planner that Shroff and others were working on took a different approach. Instead of determining the proper path of the car based on rules. So is it the case that Isaacson just misunderstood what he?
1:07:41 - Sam Abuelsamid
was being told. I think that's a distinct possibility. It's also possible that maybe Elon has been less than truthful to us in what he's been telling us about FSD so far, because if you go back to Tesla's 2019 autonomy day and many comments he's made before and since, he's always said we're using an end-to-end AI approach, we're not using a rules-based approach. That's always been what they've said. Now, it's certainly possible that he was misrepresenting what they were doing.
1:08:19 - Leo Laporte
Alright, let's not say lie. Isaacson writes-.
1:08:21 - Sam Abuelsamid
He lies about a lot of things.
1:08:22 - Leo Laporte
The cars' cameras identified such things as lane markings, pedestrians, vehicle signs, traffic signals. Then the software applied a set of rules such as stop when the light is red, go when it's green. Tesla's engineers manually wrote this is a direct quote from the book manually wrote and updated hundreds of thousands of lines of C++ code to apply these rules to complex situations by early 2023, the neural network planner project this is early this year had analyzed 10 million clips of video collected from the cars of Tesla customers. In fact, he says that's what Musk was showing off in this famous video he did in August where he almost ran a red light intervention and he grabbed the steering wheel. This is a disconnect here between what we've been told by Musk. Remember Isaacson was embedded for several years. He would go to meetings Sounds like he was actually at this meeting. We should also mention he's, while he's a famous writer and biographer, he's not a technologist. It may well be that you understand what he was hearing.
1:09:33 - Sam Abuelsamid
As I said, it's also a distinct possibility that what we've been told up till now is not the truth either.
It could be both or any combination of things, even if what Isaacson is writing is true, that they have not been using a neural network-based path planner I think this is what he's talking about. If you look at the automated vehicle software stack, there's four main things that have to happen. You have perception, which is processing the sensor signals and trying to get an understanding of what's happening in the environment around the vehicle and classifying what the sensors are seeing, saying that's a truck, that's a car, that's a dog, that's a pedestrian, that's a cyclist. Then you have to do prediction what are all of these targets around me going to do in the next three to five seconds? Then you plan a path through that environment. Finally, you send the control signals to your actuators to execute that. It's possible that what we've been told up until now by Tesla and by Musk that they were using an end-to-end AI approach was not accurate. Maybe what Isaacson is saying now is, in fact, the correct answer that they have been using a rules-based approach for the path planner, for the motion planner.
1:11:04 - Leo Laporte
Now they're switching to a neural network approach by mid-April 2023, reading again from the book it was time for Musk to try the new neural network planner. He sat in the driver's seat next to Ashok Eluswamy, tesla's director of autopilot software.
1:11:19 - Sam Abuelsamid
You probably know Ashok Three members of the autopilot team got in the back.
1:11:25 - Leo Laporte
as they prepared to leave the parking lot, musk selected a location on the map for the car to go and took his hands off the wheel. When the car turned into a main road, the first scary challenger rose. A bicyclist was headed their way on its own. The car yielded just as a human would have done For 25 minutes. The car drove on fast roads in neighborhood streets, handling complex turns, avoiding cyclists, pedestrians and pets. Musk never touched the wheel. A couple of times he intervened by putting his foot on the accelerator when he thought the car was being overly cautious.
At one point the car conducted a maneuver he thought was better than he would have done. Oh wow, he said. By the way, you get the impression that Isaacson was in the backseat. Oh wow, he said. Even my human neural network failed here. But the car did the right thing. He was so pleased he started whistling Mozart's a little night music. Okay, amazing work, guys. Musk said at the end. This is really impressive. Then they all went to the weekly meeting to hear the verdict. Musk could not believe the neural network project would work. Musk declared he was now a believer and they should move their resources to push it forward. That was spring April of this year. It's interesting. What you're saying is that Cruz and Waymo and others are already doing this anyway, because they're training.
1:12:41 - Sam Abuelsamid
Well, there's a distinct difference between what everybody else is doing In terms of training. They are capturing actually far more data than Tesla is Now. Granted it's in a narrower scope of driving environment, because Tesla has no restrictions on their operating domain. You can use the system anywhere.
1:13:07 - Leo Laporte
I have a friend who lives in Bernal Heights in San Francisco and he said for a couple of months we were seeing Cruz cars constantly because it's a very twisty, difficult, it's hard for me to drive it very narrow. They said they were training it there. They were just go up there, go up there, and then it stopped. That makes sense. But they're training it for San Francisco or Phoenix or LA, not for Right.
1:13:30 - Sam Abuelsamid
They're trying to capture as many scenarios as possible within those, to make as generalized a system as they can and then taking that, putting it into simulation and tweaking it to create new scenarios from the real-world scenarios that they've captured in simulation, which is why Cruz has been able to. In the last 12 months, they've gone into multiple new cities, including Austin and now Charlotte and Raleigh, north Carolina and Seattle, where they have never tested vehicles before and get up and running within a few weeks. Now there's something I got to say, though. That's really important. The idea of using completely end-to-end AI without any rules-based approach is fundamentally stupid and reckless for a system like this, because, as you and I know, these systems don't have a fundamental understanding of their environment, of what's going on. They're doing pattern matching, and to allow systems like that to be used without any extra oversight in a safety critical situation like this is really dumb.
1:14:42 - Leo Laporte
Well, here's the example that actually go ahead.
1:14:45 - Sam Abuelsamid
Let me finish. What other companies do is they utilize AI for some of these components, like the Pathplanner and the Perception, but they also utilize rules-based systems as guardrails to limit what the AI can do. So AI, for example, has a system that they call Responsibility Sense of Safety Model, which is very much a rules-based guardrail set for the AI. So everything that all the sensor data goes through two paths it goes through the AI path and it also goes through this RSS path. The RSS path is designed exclusively to say okay, is this kind of motion going to potentially cause a crash? What's here? Is this going to cause or contribute to a crash? And if it is, then it prevents the AI part from doing what it wants to do. So it imposes rules-based guardrails on it, and that is a fundamentally much safer approach to take. Now, it may limit what the system can do, but that's a good thing in terms of safety.
1:15:59 - Leo Laporte
The example is and this maybe explains what we had already known new happened FSD would roll through stop signs, wouldn't stop. And Musk said and by the way, isaacs confirms it in the book 95% of humans creep slowly through stop signs rather than coming to complete stop. So an FSD fully trained only on video would say well, that's what you do, you roll through the stop slowly. But the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration said you know you really, the law says you got to stop.
And that would be an example, as you say of writing a rule that says okay, yeah, yeah, all of your training says, roll through a stop, but when you see a stop sign, you come to a full stop.
1:16:44 - Sam Abuelsamid
Exactly, and this week I was in Munich for a couple of days for the IA mobility show, which is their big auto show now that replaced the former Frankfurt Motor Show. And.
I actually had a chance to go for a ride with Mobileye in a Zika 01, which is a Chinese vehicle, chinese brand vehicle from Geely Group and it's not available here in North America, but it's the first production model that has Mobileye's supervision system, and supervision is their camera based hands free driving system, so similar to GM Super Cruise, but it's camera only doesn't use any radar. As part of it, it's got 11 cameras, including eight high resolution cameras, which Tesla doesn't have. Tesla has like 1.3 megapixel cameras. These are eight of the cameras that are on the. The supervision system are eight megapixels, so you have a lot more resolution about what's going on and a lot more computing power, and I went for a 40 minute ride in this thing and it also has something like the navigation on autopilot that Tesla has, where you put in a destination and it'll navigate through the environment, it'll do interchanges, go through intersections and stop and everything. The driver still has to watch the road because they feel.
Mobileye's philosophy and I agree with this is that you know you have to have a certain minimum, certain minimum time between failures and with a camera only system, you're not going to get that without having human supervision.
Now they have more robust systems that are coming that add radar and LiDAR into that. That gets you to the point where you don't have to supervise anymore. But in a 40 minute drive in this car around Munich on various surface streets, going through intersections, making turns, going through roundabouts, going on the Autobahn, on and off the Autobahn, from the time we pulled out of the parking lot at the show facility when and the driver engaged the system the next 40 minutes, he did not have to touch the steering wheel, he did not have to intervene and it went through all kinds of scenarios that this. This is the first time a camera system like this that I have felt remotely safe. I have never felt this safe in a Tesla vehicle with autopilot or FSD and that was completely hands off the whole time. And there the the mobile eye approach to this is, I think, a far better, far more robust and safer approach.
1:19:21 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, we'll see. I mean, I haven't seen a reaction from Tesla to to the book. Knowing Elon, I'm going to guess and I don't know, if Isaacson gave it to him, he would have asked for a chance to review the book before it came out.
1:19:36 - Sam Abuelsamid
So he, I'm sure, since it's an authorized biography.
1:19:39 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yeah they, they reviewed it. So I don't know, I'm going to, I'm going to, I don't know. It's an interesting conundrum. It doesn't seem like it's a bad idea to use both neural networks you know, generative, adversarial networks, something like that to train the car, in addition to rules, to make sure car doesn't run. Stop lights, stop signs, that kind of thing seems like a good combination. It's not exclusive, right, you could use both.
1:20:08 - Sam Abuelsamid
Oh, absolutely, and and that's that's actually what you want to do. You want to have, you know, just as you do on the hardware side, where you want to have redundant and diverse sensor signals for an automated driving system that you know, that have both overlap but also have unique capabilities, you know. So there's, there's some things that that's why you use camera. Radar and light are because they each have different strengths and weaknesses, and so between them, you know that's kind of how humans drive yeah.
1:20:39 - Leo Laporte
You drive on automatic most of the time, but occasionally we'll think about what we learned when we took our driver's license test. I remember a guy got rear ended in San Francisco because I slowed down and stopped at a yellow light and the guy behind me said I thought you were, I just assumed you were going to go through it and so he stepped on it and I didn't, because my automatic reflexes perhaps were overridden by my knowledge that I wasn't going to make it through and that was going to be a red light.
1:21:12 - Sam Abuelsamid
And I and that's why he should have been looking for your brake light. He should have followed the brake lights on. He should have had the brake stuff, he should have followed rules instead of his gut.
1:21:19 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's kind of like that, isn't it?
1:21:22 - Sam Abuelsamid
Gut driving versus you know, as I was saying, you know, just as on the hardware side, you want redundancy and diversity, you want the same thing on the software side. You want at least two distinct, unique algorithms that are processing the same information in different ways and they should ideally come up with the same result. And if they don't, then you know, okay, I've got to back off, I've got to slow down and figure out what what's going on here and understand why I'm getting different results. But you know you shouldn't rely on just one solution. That's that's a that's an unsafe scenario.
1:22:00 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, what did you want to talk about.
1:22:06 - Sam Abuelsamid
I mean, I actually got part of it in there. You know, talking about mobile I and my ride in supervision, but also, you know, one of the things that was interesting about the show in Munich was just how many Chinese manufacturers there were there. There was a lot of. It was actually quite a few vehicles that were unveiled there and there was, I think, seven different Chinese brands displaying.
1:22:29 - Leo Laporte
We know about BYD right, that's the biggest.
1:22:32 - Sam Abuelsamid
Yeah, they're the biggest seller of new, what they call new energy vehicles in China, which is both battery, electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles.
1:22:42 - Leo Laporte
Are there companies that are about to sell in the US that we haven't heard of?
1:22:48 - Sam Abuelsamid
Right now, none of the Chinese brands have specifically, you know, have have indicated that they're going to launch in the US market Not at the moment anyway. They've got right now they've got a big enough market in China. They're they're expanding into Europe right now and they're gaining a lot of traction in Europe. Companies like BYD X, Xiaopang, NIO and several others are all getting some significant traction in Europe, where there is more demand for EVs than there is here, we may see them.
What we are seeing is we are seeing Chinese made vehicles here that are under what are not considered Chinese brands, like, for example, Volvo and Polestar and Lotus. I took a drive in the new Lotus Electra, which is their first electric SUV, and that vehicle is launching here next year. That's it right there and that is that's going to be on sale here in North America next year, and it's still from China. Lotus is now owned by Jilly, along with Zeker and Volvo and Polestar and a number of other brands. The Polestar 4 is also coming here. That's built in China. So we will see more Chinese made vehicles here, just perhaps not under Chinese brands.
1:24:13 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, so Lotus is an Italian brand, english, english, colin Chapman. Yeah, oh, okay, okay, it's Colin Chapman. And then, and of course, polestar is a Volvo company, but they make them in China. Yes, right.
1:24:28 - Sam Abuelsamid
Yeah, and and that. Well, they will be making Polestar's here early next year as well. The Polestar 3 is going to be assembled at the Volvo factory in South Carolina starting early 2024. And then the Polestar 4 is going to be coming from China.
1:24:44 - Leo Laporte
One other thing I wanted to ask you about. Lucid's CEO, Peter Rawlinson, got paid $379 million last year, which was like a third of their total revenue.
1:25:00 - Sam Abuelsamid
Thoughts First. You know, I will say that in general, I think almost all CEOs, with the exception of Mrs LaPorte, are vastly overpaid. She is underpaid, I can promise you that I'm sure.
1:25:15 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I'm sure she is Putting up with me. She should make a lot more.
1:25:17 - Sam Abuelsamid
Yeah, but my guess is that most of that $379 million is probably it was probably in the form of stock options, right? So it wasn't. You know it was probably option grants, you know that were priced very low at you know some point in the past and that he cashed in. Yeah. His base salary was only $575,000, which is actually pretty low for an automotive CEO.
1:25:42 - Leo Laporte
He had 5 million in stock options and 373 million in stock awards Gains. Yeah Right, so I mean it's kind of like real income. You could eventually sell the stock. Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, he came from Tesla. They had to lure him over and maybe that's why he had such a big.
1:26:00 - Sam Abuelsamid
Well, I'm not. I'm not sure that luring him was quite the way. I know. I know, peter, you know, and actually before Tesla he was at Lotus. He came from Lotus to Tesla and was the chief engineer on the Model S, helped develop the Model S and then left and went to what is now known as Lucid Motors. It was originally named Tiva, but it was eventually rebranded as Lucid.
1:26:29 - Leo Laporte
He looks like it sounded too much like sandals, and they said I've got to drive that. Well, I still think the Lucid looks like a mighty, mighty fine car.
1:26:38 - Sam Abuelsamid
Oh it is. It's a gorgeous car, Drives fantastic.
1:26:42 - Leo Laporte
The Electra would be the new Lotus would really not be for me. Probably I probably couldn't even get into it. Maybe you, oh no, absolutely no you absolutely could.
1:26:50 - Sam Abuelsamid
The Electra is more, is closer in size to the Model X. Oh, so it's a crossover. It looks fancy, yeah. Now what's not in these pictures here that you're showing is sitting across, about six feet away from the Electra, was the Lotus and Mira, which is the one that I would actually want. That's the one that you probably couldn't get into.
1:27:12 - Leo Laporte
It's a little sports car. I see it over here, the black car with the wheels.
1:27:16 - Sam Abuelsamid
Yeah, there, it is there. Yeah, that's the Amira, but they also. This week, lotus unveiled the Emaia, which is based on the same platform as the Eletra, but it's a sedan, so it's a little bit lower. Similar overall size, but a little bit lower. Not as low as the Amira, but it looks pretty slick as well.
1:27:40 - Leo Laporte
For an English company. They should come up with funny names. Yeah, well.
1:27:48 - Sam Abuelsamid
Lotus has always had names that started with E, like Esprit, elan, elise, exige, so they've always had names that start with E for their road cars.
1:28:02 - Leo Laporte
Sam, you're the greatest. I appreciate you're letting me once again hijack your segment. I just had to know. This story seemed like it was a revelation. Maybe it was.
1:28:15 - Sam Abuelsamid
Yeah, I mean the part about training is not, and that's the way they've always done it. But perhaps the part about using switching to a neural network for the path planner might be new or might not. Depends on whether you believe Elan and what he's always said and what Isaacson is saying today.
1:28:36 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, well, what it tells me is I got to read this book with a grain of salt, maybe.
1:28:41 - Sam Abuelsamid
Yeah, and I think that would be probably fair for pretty much any of his. Any authorized biography should always be read with a big grain of salt, especially when it's about someone with the, let's say ego of Mr Musk.
1:29:00 - Leo Laporte
And with that we thank Sam Abul-Samad. You can hear his podcast Wheel Bearings. It's at WheelBareingsmedia or wherever finer podcasts are sold. He is on Mastodon at Sam Abul-Samad and of course, he is a principal researcher at Guidehouse Insights, where his customers are very lucky recipients of his wisdom, as are we. Indeed Thanks, sam, have a great week.
1:29:24 - Mikah Sargent
Thanks so much, you too, all right, bye, bye.
1:29:28 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, well, that's interesting. Yeah, this is why I love having Sam on, because you really get the story, exactly In depth and true information.
1:29:36 - Mikah Sargent
I want to talk to Paige, I do, but I think we need to take one more break because we do have another ad. Oh, we've got a second ad that we need to get to.
1:29:43 - Leo Laporte
I took a break and I do this a lot, yes, where I took a break but didn't do the ad, yeah, yeah. So maybe this would be a good time to take a break and do the ad Novel, and then they could stick the ad in the earlier. That's what I'm thinking. You're smart, see. Without you, the show doesn't work. Actually, I did that last week too. See, it was up to China, ash, that he told me.
1:30:06 - Sam Abuelsamid
Now, we're going to say hello to.
1:30:07 - Leo Laporte
Paige. All right, paige, I see you Press star six so we can hear you if you haven't already, and welcome to ask the tech guys. Oh, maybe I didn't. I didn't push the send a breakout room. That's my problem, my fault page. Here comes Now you press star six. That was up. That was me. I heard a chuckle button malfunction. Hi, paige, hi, oh, we're great. How are you?
1:30:36 - Leo Laporte2
Well, I miss the radio show only because it was two days.
1:30:44 - Leo Laporte
Yes, but do you miss the 19 minutes of commercials?
1:30:47 - Leo Laporte2
No, absolutely not.
1:30:51 - Leo Laporte
So, even though there were two days, we still do almost as much content in one day because we don't have all those ads. Yeah, no, I'm very, very quickly. I was just thinking the other day, 19 years I did that. That's a lot. That is a mind boggling. I don't think I've ever really absorbed how long that was. That's a commitment it was and I loved, believe me, I loved doing it, but I and I miss it too in some ways, paige. But I think what we're doing here is close and yeah, if I weren't so lazy, we would be doing two days, but I'm just, I like having Saturdays off, yeah, yeah, yeah, we can start an hour earlier.
Okay, you want to do that. We'll start that next week. Go to 1011 instead of 1111?
1:31:38 - Mikah Sargent
1011, exactly, yeah, 1010. Okay.
1:31:40 - Leo Laporte2
So I have two questions. One's about Euro and Echo, and one is kind of an oddball question.
1:31:48 - Mikah Sargent
I love a nice lead into what the questions are going to be, so we can be prepared. Yes, thank you for that.
1:31:56 - Leo Laporte2
So I have an Euro six plus system. Okay.
1:32:00 - Mikah Sargent
1:32:01 - Leo Laporte2
what you have.
1:32:03 - Mikah Sargent
Six plus six pro Six plus Okay, I have the six pro Okay.
1:32:07 - Leo Laporte2
Okay, and then two various Echo devices, mm-hmm, and they periodically, randomly, overnight seems like, switched to my guest network. So the guest network is also an Euro network, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
1:32:31 - Mikah Sargent
But and how? So you're aware of this? Tell me how you're aware of the fact that this is happening.
1:32:37 - Leo Laporte2
This will help me I have two of the speakers connected to each other, and when it goes haywire, they will no longer both play at the same time.
1:32:51 - Mikah Sargent
Got it, okay, okay. So my first suggestion, if you have not already done this, is to hop into the ALEXA app and make your device forget the Wi-Fi network, the guest network. Forget about it. Forget about it, because if you make it forget about it, it won't join it. Then it won't even know how to connect to that guest network. Now, the way to do that is in the app and it used to be. You could. I'm annoyed. You used to be able to go online and go to alexaamazoncom, but slowly but surely they've deprecated that. So now you have to do it from the app. You open the ALEXA app, you choose devices, you find the Echo and ALEXA device, you tap on it and then you hit the little settings gear in the top right corner.
1:33:47 - Leo Laporte2
Okay, I'm there.
1:33:48 - Mikah Sargent
And then you go to tap on Wi-Fi network under wireless and then you, let's see, that's where I go when I want to change it back. Yeah, Now I'm trying to see I haven't seen anything about forgetting?
1:34:08 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, that's what you do on an iPhone.
1:34:10 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, I'm trying to find where that was the wrong.
1:34:13 - Leo Laporte
That was a question, it's the same name for both networks or no? Does a guest network have a unique name? Mine?
1:34:19 - Mikah Sargent
does, and the Eurostar.
1:34:20 - Leo Laporte
Mine does it does.
1:34:21 - Leo Laporte2
Yeah, okay, yeah.
1:34:23 - Mikah Sargent
Oh, here it is Manage your content. Okay, so actually you do do this from online, so we will have to include a link in the show notes, because I won't be able to give you the whole URL. Yeah, there's a page where you manage your content and devices. You choose the preferences tab and then, under saved Wi-Fi passwords, you delete the one for that guest network and that's going to make your ALEXA device forget that guest network For some reason. I don't know if maybe in the middle of the night it's sensing some sort of drop in the connection on the main one. So it's like well, I need to connect, so let me switch over to this, and that's why it's doing it. Yeah, but that will then make it forget that guest network. It won't flop over to it. So I will pass that link over and we will get that into the show notes, which can be found at TWiTstv. Slash ATG Forgetting is good.
1:35:19 - Leo Laporte
Forgetting can be good, Because if it doesn't know the password, it can't join it. Yep, Now the reason it's interesting that it's joining it. It probably just says, oh, this is stronger, so yeah.
1:35:29 - Mikah Sargent
I'm thinking some of the join it weird drop is happening.
1:35:31 - Leo Laporte
One thing I like to do with euros, in fact with all mesh networks and IoT devices is when I'm setting up the IoT device, turn off the five gigahertz radio. Unfortunately, with the euro you can.
1:35:46 - Mikah Sargent
Oh, you can yeah.
1:35:46 - Leo Laporte
Used to be to call them. Now you can do it.
1:35:48 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, it's in the troubleshooting page.
1:35:50 - Leo Laporte
So turn off the five gigahertz network and just use a 2.4, because most IoT devices don't work with five. Yeah, they may join it, they may see it, but they'll have problems with it. So it might be worth setting the whole thing up again to have all your echoes. Just join the 2.4.
1:36:10 - Mikah Sargent
And, if you're curious, page about how to do that and other. We've got a lot of people who listen, who use euro. You launch the euro app, you go into the settings page, you tap on troubleshooting, you choose my device won't connect and then it says my device is 2.4 giga hertz only when you tap on that you can temporarily pause the five gigahertz radio. I think it does it for about eight minutes, eight to 10 minutes, and then at that point you'll go into the app and do the connections and it will be via 2.4.
1:36:38 - Leo Laporte
1:36:40 - Leo Laporte2
That's a great way to do it Okay great, I'll try that, because they are on 5G yeah.
1:36:45 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I mean they can't. I guess they can use it Older devices couldn't?
1:36:50 - Mikah Sargent
And what Leo's suggesting too, especially if your euros or if your echoes are far away from the main euro device. That's going to be a great thing for you, because the 2.4 gigahertz can pass through a lot of stuff. I would suggest, though, Paige doing the forget network first just in case. Yeah, because you don't. You don't want to drop a possible better connection, especially if you're trying to sync two speakers together to audio. You want to have that better, more robust connection.
1:37:18 - Leo Laporte2
Okay, okay, now for the oddball question. This is my paranoia coming out. So we're moving towards things like having your driver's license digitally on your phone.
1:37:33 - Mikah Sargent
This is great, because Leo's going to be able to talk about this.
1:37:37 - Leo Laporte2
But then you have to hand over your open phone, unlocked phone, and so I was thinking, would it make sense to have kind of a less smart phone with less of your apps on it? You know you don't have your banking on it.
1:37:57 - Mikah Sargent
Sort of like my spy phone.
1:38:01 - Leo Laporte2
1:38:01 - Leo Laporte
So Apple has announced that they're going to allow people to put driver's licenses in the Apple wallets. Not every state is going along with it. It's actually a small minority of states right now. California just added this capability, but without putting it in the Apple wallet, you have to get a California DMV app, and this is where it's really going to come down to the. I wish they'd supported Apple. To be honest, I'm not going to press this show my MDL button, but what will happen is a QR code will pop up that the trooper who has pulled me over for speeding can scan right and doesn't need.
1:38:42 - Caller
I don't need to give them my phone and do not give them your phone.
1:38:45 - Leo Laporte
And if they want your phone, give them your driver's license. The other thing California says is always carry your driver's license. This doesn't work in a lot of circumstances. Now I am going to try this because I'm flying. You did it too right.
1:38:58 - Mikah Sargent
1:38:58 - Leo Laporte
no, I did not, but they say this works for the TSA and I will press that button.
1:39:03 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, if you have TSA pre-check which I know you do, and you have this driver's license option, there are two terminals that support it, one in LAX and one in SFO you can't you can't see it because I'm hiding the QR code, but it says oops, I just this QR code is single use.
1:39:22 - Leo Laporte
Oh, that's good. It will be refreshed the next time you open this screen and then swipe right for the credential and then it shows info from my driver's license, including the number, issue date, expiration date, and because it's issued in the state of California app, you can show this. Presumably the state of California is going to make sure it's highway patrol and others can use it. Now, whether my local police will use it or not, I suspect they're going to ask me for my driver's license.
1:39:55 - Mikah Sargent
Here's another great thing.
1:39:56 - Leo Laporte
Why is that there? Share my age, so it's not unusual that you have to show your driver's license. I don't have to anymore, but Lisa still does. She has to show her driver's license to buy liquor or when you go to a concert to get that bracelet. So this now can share my age using a special app or using true age. Now, obviously, the venue will have to have those tools, but that's kind of interesting too, and actually it is better than giving them your driver's license.
1:40:26 - Mikah Sargent
Honestly, that's the, the implementation that Apple has designed. What's so cool about it is it is sort of it is scenario by scenario. So it is only handing over the exact, precise information that someone needs. So, in the case where something is requiring that you be 21 or over, they won't even hand over your birth date. It will simply be is this person 21 or over, yes or no? And so it will just say yes. So it's actually a more secure thing than me handing over my ID that has my address on it. It has my birth date. It is giving as little information as possible. But, yes, in the case where a trooper or somebody would be wanting to gain access to your phone, don't give them your phone don't give them your phone and, in fact, hit all three buttons on the phone to keep it from even this is on an
iPhone On an iPhone, your side button and your up and down volume buttons. That will make it so that the next time you access the phone you have to type in your passcode so the person couldn't hold your phone up to your face and unlock it using that. It basically disables that, but I mean your idea. I think that instead of having a second phone that has fewer apps on it, it just makes more sense to keep doing what you've been doing thus far, which is carrying those physical versions rather than unwieldy apps.
Yeah, I think you should. Anyway, no matter what, perhaps, what changes is? You get to leave your physical ID, you know, in a bag or something, as opposed to carrying it along with you?
1:41:58 - Leo Laporte
Now I will tell you this, which maybe you've heard us talk about but the recent court ruling says that the Border Patrol does have the right to ask for and take your phone Period. Yeah, really. So when you cross the border, your electronic devices. Now, most of the time they don't, but the case came up when an attorney was crossing into the United States. He had on his phone, he had privileged communications with his clients. They said I can't give you my phone. They said well, you can either give us your phone or you're going to airport jail. Oh, and I don't think anybody wants to spend any time in airport.
No, that's the worst jail. So he gave him the phone and didn't get it back for six months, even though he was never charged with anything. He sued reasonably and the judge the judge has now said no, they have the right to do that, really, when you cross the border. Now, different courts have ruled different things, but I'm going to say, because it is not settled law that in fact, border Patrol assumes and here's the worst thing they assume not only do they have the right to access any of your electronic stuff as you cross the border, they also say anywhere within 100 miles of the border, which means almost 90% of the US population, and this comes up in Maine and New Hampshire when you're you know you can get stopped within miles of the border and they can still take your phone. This is a big issue. I think the courts really need to resolve this.
But as of right now you know I'm trying to find the story it looks like a court is and I think it was a fifth circuit, yeah, it was a federal appeals court says law enforcement does not need warrants to search phones at the border. So you know, that's something that where you should be paranoid and in fact, what some people do is they? They care. Either they wipe their devices before they cross the border or they carry dummy devices or, you know, I'm not going to. There are ways to do encryption and so forth. That it's that it's not clear that there's any data on your drive. People are doing a lot of different things backing up to iCloud and erasing their phone. I'm not going to do that. But this guy you know there was no probable cause. I think they just didn't like him. His phone was searched and seized in 2021 by the border patrol and I hate to say it, but well, do I hate to say it?
1:44:33 - Mikah Sargent
I don't know. To put on my Johnny Jethat for a moment, you have to wonder if interactions played a role in in that. Yeah, he may have said, no, you're not taking it. Yeah, and I'm a lawyer and this and that and the other. And it's like if we can just treat everybody with kindness, sometimes, a lot of times, I've found that really pays dividends.
1:44:54 - Leo Laporte
But you know again, you're from the fifth circus decision. This is really chilling. The phone's passcode feature prevented the border officers from accessing the phone and thus from searching it, so they took it and sent it to a forensics lab. Oh, come on. The lab bypassed the phone security features, extracted the phone's data, returned the phone and the data the department of Homeland Security. All of that took about three months.
1:45:17 - Mikah Sargent
I didn't know they went that far with it.
1:45:19 - Leo Laporte
Department of Homeland Security then used a filter team to screen the extracted data for privileged materials. That took another two months. Once the filter team had finished, they provided the border officers in Dallas with two thumb drives consisting of the data the filter team determined the authors officers were authorized to search. So now we're five months later. Yeah, so DHS conducted a border search of that data and returned the phone to him. Almost a year later. There was no probable cause. As far as there was no filing with probable cause, there was no warrant. They just did it and the court said, yeah, that's fine, they can do that.
1:45:58 - Mikah Sargent
And the whole time the lawyer obviously was just living by the way, he was a member of global entry.
1:46:05 - Leo Laporte
He was a trusted traveler.
1:46:06 - Mikah Sargent
Well, that's wild to me. So just you know that's mortifying. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe you should carry a spy phone page.
1:46:17 - Leo Laporte
Just well, I think that it's pretty clear that the police don't have the right to do that. Right, right, right. Law enforcement Right. Just remember. Border patrol does so. If you go within 100 miles of the border which, by the way, we are within 100 miles of the border I don't know why CPP would be wandering around Petaluma, but if you're within 100 miles of the border, you just keep that in mind.
1:46:37 - Leo Laporte2
Okay, all right.
1:46:40 - Leo Laporte
Sorry, paige, here's what Tector writes. When it comes to the border, the house always wins.
1:46:51 - Mikah Sargent
Fair enough. Yeah, you want to be able to go home, right this?
1:46:54 - Leo Laporte
is just a bizarre ruling and it's just unclear really where the I think the law is unsettled at this point because other federal courts have come to the opposite conclusion, that they don't have the right to do that, but this most recent one is the fifth circuit. Anyway, paige, great question. Thank you, you're right to be paranoid.
1:47:16 - Leo Laporte2
And I really look forward to Sundays.
1:47:20 - Mikah Sargent
Oh, I am.
1:47:21 - Leo Laporte
You know I was. I. My biggest fear was that people would just lose track of me. Yeah, and we would just leave that audience.
1:47:28 - Leo Laporte2
1:47:28 - Leo Laporte
Hey, thank you. I'm glad that at least a few people have come along for the ride, and Rich does a great job on Saturday and I know a lot of people just listen to Rich instead.
1:47:37 - Leo Laporte2
But I've been listening to him too, but he's very different.
1:47:40 - Leo Laporte
It's a different show. Yeah, and I missed doing it. I loved, boy. 19 years is a long time. I really loved doing it. It was. It was the really for me, the achievement of a life, school. To do a nationally syndicated radio show about technology was all I'd ever wanted, and so once I did that, I can now just go to the coast.
1:48:00 - Mikah Sargent
Thanks, Paige. Thank you so much.
1:48:02 - Leo Laporte2
Thanks, bye Take care Bye. Bye.
1:48:06 - Mikah Sargent
Let's see Should we do an email, or it's going to be about printers.
1:48:10 - Leo Laporte
No, it isn't. I have a solemn promise from John Ashley that if he's going to make me reach all the way. By the way, rotator cuff is elbow. Is it really? Didn't know that, or Tommy John surgeries. Oh, okay. This is a rotator cuff, but I said Tommy John surgery and a very kind listener.
1:48:27 - Mikah Sargent
Yes, it wasn't one of those. You know, I really grinds my gears. You know, you call your shoulder surgery.
1:48:34 - Leo Laporte
Tommy John surgery is not All right. Here we go. Sim unlock on an Android phone from Luke in Portland Club TWiT member. Oh, that means he gets special treatment. Uh an answer. Hi, leo and Mike, I hope you guys are doing well.
My girlfriend wants to SIM unlock her Android phone so she can go to another wireless service. Uh-huh, I don't know much about Android and I'm an Apple guy, so she gives me a lot of crap. Use an Apple products. What's the most efficient way to SIM unlock that phone? So the rule is the carrier has to do it. Once you've paid off the phone, it's yours, right? If you have a deal with a carrier, you'll pay it off over two years. They don't have to. And because Verizon made such a stink about it, the FCC said well, all right. Verizon said if we SIM unlock the phone the minute we ship it to somebody, it's going to fall off a truck and we're going to have problems. So what he's talking about, by the way, is actually called the carrier lock.
Where you buy a phone from Verizon, verizon says you can't use it within any other carrier. Fcc says no, that's wrong, you can. They have a little wiggle room for the phone companies Like they have a couple of months to do it. Sometimes it's 90 days. So you know, to eliminate I don't know what fevery, but if you have, if you own the phone outright and you've had it for more you know bought it a few months ago you just call the carrier. In most cases carriers have an app or you can even do it in the settings. But check depends who your carrier is. Check and see if there's an app that unlocks and I know T-Mobile, I think, has an app. You just unlock it and they're required to. They're required to Once you own that phone outright.
1:50:17 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, they might make you go through a little bit of a song and dance, but they are required to For AT&T. I go to the website and if it's been that period of time, there's a simple thing. This is unlock this device.
1:50:29 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, here's from Verizon's website. Why does Verizon have a device locking policy? Well, there's no answer to that. What did they say? They just no answer. Just click the link and there's no answer. How do I know if my device is locked? I'm trying, literally. They have a link. Wow, it says why does Verizon do this? Can you see that? Why does Verizon and I click it and nothing happens. Wow, there you go. So you should be able to do this. Oh, there it is why is Verizon.
1:51:06 - Mikah Sargent
It's right in the mouse.
1:51:07 - Leo Laporte
Oh they just went too far. We have a device locking policy to help prevent theft and protect customers from fraud. Protect customers A device that's locked and not usable on networks outside of Verizon is less attractive to criminals.
1:51:20 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, that's an ugly phone.
1:51:22 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, don't worry about it, Just unlock it and take it with you. I always buy unlocked.
1:51:29 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, yeah, pretty much, that's what we do. Yeah, never had a problem with that, but I think if it always gets to me from Verizon, yeah.
1:51:36 - Leo Laporte
And just you know, you put in a sim. Nowadays you don't even need a sim on most new folks. Yeah, he's some, which is great.
1:51:43 - Mikah Sargent
What else? That was good, that was a good one, that was fun. Thank you, luke from Portland. Thank you, luke, club to remember.
1:51:48 - Leo Laporte
Hope your girlfriend doesn't get mad at you or anything. Yeah, just because you're a lowly iPhone and those iPhone users, I tell you I feel sorry for them. Me too. Are you going to buy the new iPhone?
1:52:01 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, Am I going to buy the new iPhone? I was going to say it will be purchased, right.
1:52:08 - Leo Laporte
So Mike and I will be covering Apple's event 10 am. Tuesday, september 12th. We will be streaming, as we always do streaming their content and then sitting in front of it and talking, commentating, analyzing it. The only problem with that is Apple takes us down on YouTube when we do that, so we won't be streaming that live on YouTube. We will stream it everywhere else, both audio and video. So when you go to TWiTtv, slash live to watch this, youtube won't be an option. That's, that's the only thing you need to know Now. If you want a clean, uncommentated version of it, apple streams it, of course, and please watch that. But if you want to hear what Mike and I think about it, apple's announcing, what do we think they're going to do?
1:52:54 - Mikah Sargent
Well, we know, or I mean we're all but certain. Do we know that there will be an iPhone announced?
1:53:00 - Caller
Yes, pretty sure about that, yeah.
1:53:01 - Mikah Sargent
Every September, apple, for the longest, is announced, at the very least, new iPhones. Do you?
1:53:06 - Leo Laporte
look at the event invitation and try to.
1:53:08 - Mikah Sargent
No, not anymore. I that's just depressing to me, honestly. Now I it makes me sad when I see all those little.
1:53:16 - Leo Laporte
1:53:17 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, it's, because I guess it's like once you know how the sausage is made, once you understand the separation between the marketing department and the technology department, and it's just, it's just very vaguely related.
1:53:33 - Leo Laporte
Wonder Lust is the tagline. W O N like wander, wonder, wonder, wonder, wonder, wonder who made the iPhone 15. So wonder and then lust, because Apple acknowledges that really they sell most of the phones based on a carnal desire to own it.
1:53:51 - Mikah Sargent
Yes, indeed, and you know, we're hearing that the colors for the pros are super muted this year. A dearth of steel.
1:53:59 - Leo Laporte
Gray steel, steel steel steel steel steel and silver steel, yeah, yeah, but it will be titanium.
1:54:06 - Mikah Sargent
I'm not interested in that. Remember we had that caller who said these phones are too heavy. Well, it'll be lighter, although it might be thicker.
1:54:12 - Leo Laporte
It'll still be lighter. It might be a little bit thicker. Interesting. Here's the thing that they're. They're saying right now that Mark Gurman and all the rumor mongers it is the high end. The iPhone pros can be more expensive.
1:54:23 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, a hundred dollars more yeah.
1:54:25 - Leo Laporte
Two reasons Periscope lens, so it's going to have a lot of zoom, and the fact that they're going to replace this surgical stainless steel with non-surgical titanium Never operate with titanium.
1:54:37 - Mikah Sargent
Never, no Many people have titanium allergies. No, I also read something about stacked sensors, did you? Did you hear about this? This is like the newest, latest camera. That's not periscope Well no, and this is supposed to be coming to all of the iPhones. Let me see Stacked sensor iPhone. I don't know. Somebody had this really weird, had this really weird kind of drawing of what or diagram of what a stacked sensor could be or what it looks like, and I didn't understand it.
1:55:11 - Leo Laporte
If it might be related to binning, which they've done before, which is the idea that, in order to give you more resolution, you have a higher. Anyway, we'll find out.
1:55:24 - Mikah Sargent
Well, it suggests that the new stacked sensor design will only be included in Apple's standard lower end iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 plus, not the pro and pro max.
1:55:33 - Leo Laporte
If you don't want spoilers. Yes, do not read this minutes before we went to press. What a pressed record. Press play. Began the show Minutes. Macworld published the script. Oh, come on For Apple's event.
1:55:49 - Mikah Sargent
It's probably it's a goof, isn't it?
1:55:51 - Leo Laporte
No, they say this is the rehearsal script. What that leaked out the last time we did this. Some people question whether it was real or not until after the WWDC keynote, when it was clear we made the whole thing up. Oh, maybe they are OK. You know what? It's not April 1st, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, maybe it is made up.
1:56:15 - Mikah Sargent
Well, we can't vouch for the validity of the most recent file.
1:56:17 - Leo Laporte
We built for.
1:56:18 - Mikah Sargent
We can vouch for the gullibility of the internet. Ok, so I fell for it.
1:56:23 - Leo Laporte
Oh boy, we will see. Probably. Besides, they're saying now for new models. I thought for briefly there was going to be a fifth ultra.
1:56:31 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, one more model.
1:56:32 - Leo Laporte
So iPhone 15, iphone 15. Mac, oh, maybe maybe the iPhone 15 or iPhone 15 plus. I think 15 plus iPhone 15 pro, iphone 15 pro max. I'm still holding that hope for an iPhone 15 pro ultra that costs five thousand. So I could say no, to you.
1:56:57 - Mikah Sargent
What are you going to do with what? What would, what would Apple do with an ultra? What?
1:57:03 - Leo Laporte
is, I don't know. Maybe a little propeller would come out.
1:57:05 - Mikah Sargent
And now, that would be cool. A drone camera. It's huge, it's this big.
1:57:11 - Leo Laporte
I don't know. They also will probably announce a new Apple watches and of course Lisa and I were talking. She says you're going to buy the new watch and I said I don't think so because the ultra is so good. I really like the ultra. They're not going to do a new ultra. I don't think they're going to do a new basic watch and it will have a new chip Faster, which usually means better battery life, and it will have some new sensors, but not see it dependent. If they had a blood glucose sensor then I'm right.
1:57:37 - Mikah Sargent
But yeah, that's still going to be a few years.
1:57:39 - Leo Laporte
If they had a blood pressure sensor I might buy. Ok, I don't. I don't know if they're going to do that, so we shall see, but my guess is OK. So I know this is fake. Now because here comes Jeff Williams, Apple's chief operating officer, strolling confidently around a grassy corner of Apple Park like Toby McGuire and Spider-Man 3. I think this is poor choice.
1:58:01 - Mikah Sargent
Don't do that. I don't like that it fooled me.
1:58:04 - Leo Laporte
I believe them for a whole minute.
1:58:06 - Mikah Sargent
Even if I wasn't fooled by you you said oh, come on, that's honestly. I won't say who, but let's say someone I know regularly will say things out loud to me. Did you hear the da da, da, da, da da. And I go. Is it true? And then we take a moment and find out no, it's not true.
1:58:23 - Caller
So I just don't believe anything until I can confirm it.
1:58:26 - Mikah Sargent
Is it true? Is it true? Is it safe?
1:58:28 - Leo Laporte
Anyway, we'll find out what you have to New phone new watch.
1:58:32 - Mikah Sargent
Will watch and see if new airpods will watch and see Bringing a full circle. You know we do need to take that moment to say is it true? Because now the government can't call up Twitter and say can you please do the misinformation.
1:58:43 - Leo Laporte
Right, they're not allowed. It would be funny if they call up Twitter, say could you not publish rumors about the new iPhone?
1:58:50 - Mikah Sargent
But I don't think I like to care about that. Although I guess, with all of the taxes that the US makes from Apple, maybe they would care, maybe they care.
1:59:01 - Leo Laporte
Maybe they're really rooting for Apple type C connector where we're placed, like I'm pretty sure that's the case as well.
1:59:07 - Mikah Sargent
1:59:08 - Leo Laporte
Anyway, this you know, we're in a situation now where there's not a whole lot of stuff to get excited about.
1:59:14 - Mikah Sargent
What we can get excited about. What I'm looking forward to is there's almost always some new software and hardware merging feature. That happens. That gets to bring the. There's always something like the. So, for example, dynamic Island we didn't know about that. The new phone was announced, and then this was a software.
1:59:36 - Leo Laporte
That was so fun. I was really excited. I still love the Dynamic Island.
1:59:38 - Mikah Sargent
And sometimes there'll be.
1:59:40 - Leo Laporte
You know, in the past there've been like a there's a camera feature that we didn't know about until, yeah, I was like those grab a hold of and be jumping up and down, but don't make me jump it out too much, because I'm going to wear my jammies.
1:59:52 - Mikah Sargent
And you'll be in the basement and my mother's. They don't want to bring down the wall, the ceiling on you, not get off there I'm doing a podcast. I want to make a phone call. You got to get off the internet.
2:00:09 - Leo Laporte
I'm trying to podcast here, ok, anyway, so please watch and then we'll do Mac break weekly immediately after. Yeah, that will be a fun Tuesday. You move in iOS today earlier. Yeah, I was, today will be at 8am.
2:00:22 - Mikah Sargent
Ok, and then, yeah, we'll roll in. I'll be there all day iOS the show and then Mac break afterward. Ok, what do?
2:00:32 - Leo Laporte
you want us to do, John Ashley? We've stalled long enough. Oh, you're stalling. I was a stalling. I never stall. Chris has been hanging out for. Is that Chris from Miami?
2:00:43 - Mikah Sargent
No, no no, this is a different, chris.
2:00:45 - Leo Laporte
Oh, no wonder my Chris from somewhere else, chris, come on down. Should I send him from Pensatucky? From Pensatucky, is that? Is that just north of Albuquerque we're getting punched?
2:01:03 - Leo Laporte1
Guys, we're packing up today we are.
2:01:05 - Leo Laporte
Hello Chris, when are you calling from West Palm?
2:01:08 - Leo Laporte1
I'm just north of Chris In Miami. You know he sucked up all the caffeine.
2:01:14 - Leo Laporte
I think there's no caffeine in the entire state.
2:01:16 - Mikah Sargent
I can't find any coffee beans anywhere.
2:01:19 - Leo Laporte1
Yeah, I love how rapidly he goes when he gets on. He's hysterical.
2:01:23 - Leo Laporte
It's, it's become shtick. You know how many cups in are you? I'm 23. It's really, it's really become shtick. So what can we do for you, mr Chris?
2:01:34 - Leo Laporte1
So a little feedback for you. I joined Club Twit. Thank you very much for everything you do out there and I figured I would do my my donation for your support.
2:01:41 - Leo Laporte
Thank you and on, I never learned how to download the ones without the commercials on it.
2:01:45 - Leo Laporte1
but you have a commercial now that comes on for some energy soft drink and the volume is about twice as loud as any other commercial.
2:01:55 - Leo Laporte
Let me explain that to you because it's not exactly as it seems. So first of all you pay for it, Get the cut at the end of the day. First of all you pay for it, get the cut, ad free versions, because we're getting your seven bucks a month and you might as well. What happens if you could find the emails? We give you a link to a special page that has all of the shows because you get. Every club member has their own unique feed with that has no ads on it. So go back and find that email and there'll be a link in there.
2:02:27 - Mikah Sargent
We could. I could connect real quick and show everybody how this is done Super quick.
2:02:33 - Leo Laporte1
Secondary, the old ones yeah.
2:02:36 - Leo Laporte
Well, we love it that you listen to the ads. I don't want to stop you.
2:02:39 - Leo Laporte1
There are now two kinds of ads.
2:02:42 - Leo Laporte
We've had a lot of trouble, as we've mentioned, one of the reasons we want people to join the club is advertisers. They don't get it. They don't get what we do. I think the advertisers who do really benefit from the kinds of ads we do right, cause we only you know we're talking about something we use, we, we know about and we and we really explain what it is to you, and I think we do a great job.
But unfortunately, many agencies and many advertisers are used to the way they bought ads on radio and TV where they would, you know they wouldn't. They're not host read, they're just inserted into the content, right, they just dropped in. And that's why sometimes you know, you'll see three different car and manufacturers ads, one right after another on a football game, because they're not buying. You know they're not. It's not the same experience. They're buying inserted ads. The ad you heard is an inserted ad and we don't control. Unfortunately, we don't control the volume. This makes me mad. We're going to talk to the company that does that, because that absolutely should never happen. But we didn't sell.
2:03:48 - Leo Laporte1
I was driving down the road and that ad came on as well. Oh wow. It scared you so was it recent, was it?
2:03:55 - Leo Laporte
It was fairly recent.
2:03:57 - Leo Laporte1
Yes, okay, this is the last show.
2:03:59 - Leo Laporte
Okay, so we switched over a couple of months ago to a Libsyn company Libsyn has been in podcasting forever and ever called Advertise Cast and, and the way it works is the feeds then go to them, but not if you're a club member, but if you're not a club member the feeds go to them and then we do our ads. On this show, for instance, we had two ads that I read, but there's four positions, so we mark with the special invisible marking the position of the other two ads. That's usually when we're go. We'll be right back after this or something and pause, and then if they have an advertiser for your region, even they will drop that advertiser in and we get paid for it. We don't get paid as much as we would if we were doing the ads, but we get.
It's the frankly, it's some advertisers. The only way we can ever reach most advertisers is through this ad insertion, and so we have to do it because we're just not close to sold out. We're less than 50% sold out these days because of that. So I'm sorry but, but but.
I should say we approve every client. No client goes on there that we haven't said yes to. I get a list and it's a long list of clients and I say no, no, we're not going to do cigarettes, we're not going to do beer, we're not going to do vaping, we're not going to do, you know, Bitcoin, stuff like that. And then, but we have a relationship. I'm going to actually be with Trevor, who runs advertised cast in Green Bay. When we go out there. One of the reasons we're going to Green Bay is to meet with them and you can say hey, Trevor, shout out Is this the kind of bad you want? Cause I can tell you nobody no advertising.
2:05:35 - Mikah Sargent
No, they don't want that either.
2:05:36 - Leo Laporte1
Exactly it sounds like he's doing a breakaway in soccer. You know the goal guy, oh my goodness. And he's talking about some energy drink. It's kind of funny.
2:05:47 - Leo Laporte
This has always been an issue on TV too. Right and some of it is not that it's louder. There are FCC rules that can't be, you know, louder than the main content, but they can do tricks with it to make it feel louder, and it doesn't apply to OTT stuff.
2:06:02 - Mikah Sargent
That's the problem. That's the problem. So, for everybody who's in the club, we get these questions all the time. So I'm going to make a little package that John Ashley can basically cut out if he wants to and share with people. So I went to TWiTtv, so can we show my screen? I'm going to play one, all right. So I click on club, click on club, and then I scroll down, yes, and on the right side it says manage your membership. Right, oh, I choose access your account.
2:06:29 - Leo Laporte
So if you didn't have the email, you can just do this.
2:06:31 - Mikah Sargent
Yes, and then, if you're not logged in, you'll give the email that you used to log in. Mine's my TWiT email. All I do is I click over on podcasts. Look at this, Watch this.
2:06:41 - Leo Laporte
This is amazing. Look, I've never done this.
2:06:44 - Mikah Sargent
Here are all of the shows. So if I wanted to ask the tech guys without ads.
2:06:48 - Leo Laporte
That's a special feed. That's going to be your feed, only you don't show. Yeah.
2:06:52 - Leo Laporte1
Yeah yeah, the old subscription yes.
2:06:56 - Mikah Sargent
Remove your old subscription, you would click on subscribe and I won't again. I won't show this because this has my own special feeds, but when you click on subscribe it's actually going to pop up with different podcasts providers. So maybe you use Apple podcasts, maybe you use Spotify. Whatever you happen to use, there's probably an RSS as well, and there's also, yeah, just a plain or RSS and you can just copy and paste that as well. So, yeah, those others are just to make it easier. But that and then also folks, maybe you are going how do I join the Discord From this page? You click on this button right here, discord, and then you can join the Discord. So if you've had trouble with any of that, that's where you do it. It's just that simple button.
2:07:33 - Leo Laporte
And even if you don't plan to spend much time in the Discord, there are help sections in there. So if you have other questions, that's where you know you can go and get support from the team.
2:07:43 - Leo Laporte1
So I have a good question for you today.
2:07:46 - Leo Laporte
2:07:48 - Leo Laporte1
So you guys earlier said that Google turned 20 today. Does that like dog ears, is it?
2:07:53 - Mikah Sargent
25? 25. That's a good question. Is it like dog ears?
2:07:58 - Leo Laporte1
Where I live. They think I've moved to Washington DC when I'm really in South Florida.
2:08:03 - Leo Laporte
2:08:03 - Leo Laporte1
2:08:04 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, maybe it is dog ears.
2:08:07 - Leo Laporte
Actually, that's probably your internet service provider rather than Google.
2:08:11 - Leo Laporte1
but this is I've gone down every rabbit hole I can think of. I called Xfinity and I said, hey, can you sign me a new IP? And they said, no, we can't.
2:08:20 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, so this is the fault of a GeoIP location and, by the way, that might be why you got that loud ad, because they also do that they're using. You know, we can't really tell where you are, but what they'll do is look at an IP address and say, well, that is assigned to this ISP for this region, so he must be in upper Washington state or wherever it is that they're putting you and that's just a failure of GeoIP. It's not. It isn't a perfect thing. So I'm not sure why their Xfinity would be the one because it's their IP address.
2:08:58 - Leo Laporte1
I'd say a lot of people talking about Mac spoofing, I've got an Orbee.
2:09:03 - Leo Laporte
They don't see your Mac address. They only see your IP address, and so Mac address spoofing will not help. It's the IP, it's based on the IP address and unfortunately, xfinity has assigned you one from a pool somewhere up north.
2:09:20 - Leo Laporte1
And it worked for years. I mean it just a couple of weeks ago and it was just an annoyance at first, and then they sent one of my prescriptions to the wrong pharmacy in Washington state, and now my YouTube TV won't give me local stations.
2:09:34 - Leo Laporte
Oh, that's very frustrating.
2:09:36 - Leo Laporte1
Yeah, I called YouTube TV and they were like wait a minute.
2:09:39 - Leo Laporte
I have to fix it. Call you back, please. So one thing you could do. You know it's ironic because Xfinity does not guarantee you a static IP address. They say never rely on your IP address. How can you get a new IP address? Sometimes disconnecting your cable modem.
I did that and let it off for an hour, actually unplug the cable to it, cause I remember that one time with Xfinity was so that's the one reason you might want to MAC address spoof, because Xfinity does know the MAC address of your router and so if they see that MAC address they say oh yeah, that's Chris, we know he lives in Washington DC. So if you did a MAC address spoof, what would initially happen is your Xfinity would drop off because they say well, that's not his, that's not him. At that point you can call Xfinity and say I put a new router in or something, or maybe just hope that it gets. This is interesting.
2:10:43 - Leo Laporte1
So I mean Did you do that in the LAN setup page? Isn't that a WAN setting?
2:10:48 - Leo Laporte
Is it a MAC address?
2:10:50 - Leo Laporte1
Yeah, it's like asking me. The only place I can see to do anything in the MAC is like add a new one in LAN settings. I can see my router is not there. The Orbi is not in there. Everything else in the house like 36.
2:11:02 - Leo Laporte
It's the cable modem. It's the thing that you have attached to the cable. That is critical. So if you could change the last. So I'm looking at a website. The website first says if you need to change your IP address, this is arujancom and I you know some of it's accurate, so I'll use the rest. Turn off your router and your Comcast modem, wait for 20 seconds, up to two minutes. Turn it on and see if you get a new IP address. It doesn't always do that. It didn't for you. So the next thing is log into your routers configuration, navigate to the MAC address section, into the WAN MAC address, and change the last digit.
Now do a power cycle.
2:11:47 - Leo Laporte1
There's nowhere in WAN to do that. It's only in LAN that I can do it, and that's just internal in the house.
2:11:52 - Leo Laporte
Yeah right, All right. Well, so you've obviously seen these articles.
2:11:58 - Leo Laporte1
Yeah, I saw that one yeah.
2:12:02 - Leo Laporte
This is that's what you need to do.
2:12:03 - Leo Laporte1
It's really it's a few months off the best.
2:12:07 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, this is the problem is I know exactly what's going on. The real problem is Xfinity is not responsive and and you know that's probably cause they had a pool. Probably your Xfinity provider in your area also has customers in Washington DC and so they have one IP pool that they're using for everybody. I don't know. It's terrible. I go to IP locationnet and see.
See, I'm on this here. There are many sites like this. But see where it thinks you are and you says things were in Santa Rosa. It says it thinks you're in Washington DC.
2:12:44 - Leo Laporte1
2:12:44 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, that's a bad.
2:12:47 - Leo Laporte1
ISP, what's my IP? No see, if I go to what's my IP, it knows I'm in Florida. If I go to any other map, you know map quest or MSN maps, or you know that's interesting Anything other than Google now it knows this is another one IP locationnet.
2:13:05 - Leo Laporte
Why don't you try that real quick while we're here? Ip locationnet? Because what's my IP might be giving you Google's what Google thinks and Google's wrong, but IP locationnet is using the.
2:13:23 - Leo Laporte1
IP location yeah, west Palm Beach, florida, okay.
2:13:25 - Leo Laporte
So why? Why is Google specifically ignoring that?
2:13:28 - Mikah Sargent
Is it? Yeah, it's in Google Maps. It's in. Where does this show up, that you know that it's Any non-Google properties? Google.
2:13:35 - Leo Laporte1
Maps. Any search you do in Chrome shows the wrong address, like if you just put it in restaurants and don't put it in the zip.
2:13:42 - Mikah Sargent
it'll tell you that you're oh restaurants near your Washington DC location.
2:13:46 - Leo Laporte1
That is not your actual location.
2:13:47 - Mikah Sargent
Got it my.
2:13:47 - Leo Laporte1
YouTube TV. My YouTube TV thinks I'm in Washington DC. There's no way to change it. All the Google properties do yeah, yeah.
2:13:57 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I got into a loop with that have you ever lived in DC.
No, I was there like two years ago for a weekend, but no, no remember when my YouTube TV decided I was in Susquehanna, pennsylvania Never been there, I don't know why. I'd thought that How'd you fix it? Well, this wasn't a good thing. I called them and they said yeah, we can't fix it. What you have to do is cancel that account and create a new one. Are you kidding me? But the good news was the customer service rep said I'll transfer all your credits and all that stuff over to the new account once you've created it. But yeah, we can't fix it within the account.
2:14:29 - Mikah Sargent
But yeah, and you're having it everywhere, so that Everywhere it's like they take my house and transport it to DC.
2:14:37 - Leo Laporte
Does it do it on more than one computer? Is it all and that's that computer?
2:14:40 - Leo Laporte1
Yes, that one's on everything. Oh, that would drive me up a wall.
2:14:44 - Leo Laporte
It's not cashed information.
2:14:46 - Mikah Sargent
Because I was thinking if somewhere, at some point, you had put in an address, if you had lived in DC, that it could have been pulling from that.
2:14:53 - Leo Laporte1
But the fact that this is just I was there like two years ago, but again it was like a three day weekend and I came back and everything worked fine. This is like a recent thing that started happening about three weeks ago.
2:15:04 - Mikah Sargent
Okay, so that's interesting because I actually thought that you were. I remember a listener calling in before who had a similar issue.
2:15:11 - Leo Laporte1
I do too. I remember that call. I wasn't sure what the outcome was.
2:15:15 - Mikah Sargent
They moved to Washington DC.
2:15:19 - Leo Laporte
That's the solution. By the way, yeah, just move Google's always right, don't you know? Google's always right. Yeah, west Palm is very nice. You're in a very nice area, is it a little sweaty and hot?
2:15:31 - Leo Laporte1
today it's very sweaty and hot. I was hoping to talk to Sam and ask him to ask Elon to put my recirculation button back on my Tesla. I don't know why in my AC.
2:15:42 - Leo Laporte
They took it out.
2:15:44 - Leo Laporte1
No, the button is there, but every time you get in the car it's off.
2:15:47 - Leo Laporte
Oh, it resets.
2:15:48 - Leo Laporte1
Pulling air in from outside, it's 98 degrees. I don't want that. Wait a minute, there's no time to drive that car.
2:15:54 - Leo Laporte
You can, because you grew up in St Joe. 98 degrees and 100% humidity yeah, it's a nightmare. My sister warned me because I'm going back to Rhode Island.
2:16:03 - Leo Laporte1
Apparently, it's very similar it's 80s but it's very humid, walk out the door and your hair just goes back in Yikes, okay, well, thank you guys.
2:16:12 - Mikah Sargent
I appreciate you for all the dabbing cloths.
2:16:14 - Leo Laporte1
I'm going to keep banging on it. Good luck. That's very frustrating.
2:16:19 - Leo Laporte
I'm looking at all sorts of how do you change your location in Google. And you're right, it is Google. Now I think we've determined that because IP location and what is my IP says you're in palm. So it's clearly that Google has got it in its head, for some reason, that you're in DC. So it isn't very frustrating. It isn't Xfinity.
2:16:38 - Leo Laporte1
I'm going on vacation this weekend, so I'm going to unplug it for three days and see if that rolls the IP over. Even if for an hour or two it didn't work, you know. But maybe if I do it for a longer period of time, maybe I don't doubt it, have you?
2:16:51 - Leo Laporte
ever been to Washington DC.
2:16:53 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, he said it for a few days. I wonder if your phone decided that that's where you were.
2:16:59 - Leo Laporte
And then the phone said told everybody hey the phone knows where I am.
2:17:03 - Leo Laporte1
If I do Google map, the phone works fine. Yeah, but you know it's on, it's not on my Wi-Fi. Well, it is on my Wi-Fi, isn't it yeah?
2:17:13 - Leo Laporte
No, the computer doesn't have GPS in it. I mean, that's why your phone knows where you are, because it's actually pulling from GPS instead of using IP.
2:17:23 - Mikah Sargent
What an odd problem.
2:17:26 - Leo Laporte1
There you go.
2:17:27 - Mikah Sargent
There's your afternoon stump. Yeah, I'll be thinking about this for a while and I'll be thinking about you and you move to Washington DC.
2:17:33 - Leo Laporte1
Yeah, I'll be looking at the show notes Exactly Chat room discord.
2:17:38 - Leo Laporte
Anything you can do to help. We would appreciate it. Hey, it's great to talk to you.
2:17:42 - Leo Laporte1
Thank you for joining the club.
2:17:43 - Leo Laporte
We really appreciate it. Thanks so much. And now you know how to get rid of those ads. Yeah, yes, yes, exactly $7 a month. Ad free versions of all of our show, access to the best social network ever, our club, to a discord, stuff that we don't put out in public, like Micazon, hands on Macintosh, hands on Windows with Paul Therat, the untitled Linux show, scott Wilkinson's Home Theater Geeks so many great programs because our Club TWiT members are financing them. So it helps us a lot. Every podcast network is reporting that. It's just gotten very difficult to do podcasts, but thanks to our club, we now have, I think, almost 7,000 members, which is a full 1% of our audience. If we could get it to two, three, four, yeah, let's get that I dream of five.
We could really do something with that money and it wouldn't go into my pocket, I can promise you. Twittertv slash Club TWiT. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thank you. Do you want to do one more call before we go? I hate to end on it.
2:18:44 - Caller
We can do one more call, but I think we do need to take a quick break.
2:18:49 - Leo Laporte
Oh, all right, we're taking a little break and then when we come back, why don't we do a voicemail? How about that? Yeah, you're watching, ask the tech guys or listening. Either way, it's okay Voicemail time. Who do you got?
2:19:04 - Caller
Hi, this is Don from Dethersburg, maryland, and my question is that it seems in the last couple months Apple podcasts and its integration between the iPhone and the Apple watch are not in sync anymore. My podcast cue on my phone is no longer syncing in the same order as it is on the watch, so the watch seems to be the controlling mechanism for the podcast when I live to them through my AirPods and in my car. So I don't know if Apple did something odd or this is just an Apple podcast issue, but I'd like to be able to have my podcasts in the order that I prefer or try to have on my phone, rather than the randomness that the watch plays it on.
2:19:54 - Leo Laporte
Thanks. So he's using a nice feature of Apple podcasts which is just keep playing, don't ever stop, and but it's not playing in the order that he is set up. I am not a regular user of Apple podcasts, so I'm not sure I.
2:20:10 - Mikah Sargent
my suggestion to you is launch the watch app on your phone. Then you will go to the podcast settings on your phone. So there are three tabs at the bottom my watch face gallery and discover from the my watch tab. Just scroll down until you get to podcasts and you'll see settings add episodes from up next or add episodes from saved, and then you can also add shows. So I would check this page and see that it's the same as what you have in your phone with your podcasts app. It could be that for some reason it started doing the using shows that you have listed here instead of just pulling from your up next from your podcasts app.
2:20:56 - Leo Laporte
So so, if you can, show that over the shoulder shot. I can show people there.
2:21:01 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, so you want to choose. You want to have up next and saved selected. You don't want to have ad shows. You don't have anything in there, because if you choose ad shows, then it's going to ignore what you have on your Apple podcasts make its own and make its own list.
2:21:16 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, as for order, I don't. I don't know how you should be ordered.
2:21:20 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, it should be if you have it set so that it pulls from your up.
2:21:24 - Caller
Next seems like it's going to pull from the phones up next and it'll copy.
2:21:27 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, what I think happened is that, for some reason, that shows section ended up getting added here, and that's where it breaks and it does its own thing versus what you want it to do, which is from your phone. Let your phone be the ruler instead of let your Apple watch be the ruler. Got it.
2:21:43 - Leo Laporte
You're so good. I'm glad you're feeling better. Me too. I will be back here next week. Yeah, I'm going to fly back East tomorrow Is it mom again.
2:21:52 - Mikah Sargent
Sorry, won't you be gone again after that, so you'll be like. Oh, is that way later? Okay, I just I feel like you're flying, I'm not.
2:22:00 - Leo Laporte
I'm going to tell you this right now I'm not missing the show ever. Okay, until until the cows come in. Cows come home, maybe Christmas, I don't know but but but I have no plans for not being here on a Sunday.
2:22:12 - Mikah Sargent
I was just reading a list of all the different countries who have versions of like when the pigs fly, and one you hold down your eyelid and you say is there a train coming at me here?
2:22:25 - Leo Laporte
What? What country is that? Believe it was Germany? Is that plane coming here? No, you see a plane. No, well, you know, we say in America the good Lord willing, the quick stoke rise. I will be here next week and you will too for us, the tech guys. I hope you will too. I'll be in. We do this.
We do this show every Sunday from 11 11 am to about 1 32 pm. That's a Pacific time. If you live in in God's country, on the East Coast, that would be I don't know, it's hard to figure. It'll be something like some 2 pm to 5 pm. I don't do all that fancy math. That's fancy math, let alone in the godless hinterlands of Europe which are on UTC, and I think that would be about 1800 UTC, universal coordinated time.
They even couldn't get the letters in order. Oh, they couldn't even get the letters in order. So do come by and watch the live streams at TWiTchtv slash live. There's audio and video there. If you're watching live, chat live in our IRC. That's open to everybody. Irc dot, TWiT dot TV. And if you are in the club, of course you can do that in the discord. After the fact, on demand versions of the show are available at our website. We kept tech guy labs so you can just go to tech guy labs dot com see the shows we're. This was episode what was it? 1991? Wow, oh, my goodness, moly, moly, but they're all the episodes going back to I think we missed the first couple, but going back to you know 2004. There's a space Odyssey space Odyssey.
2:24:07 - Mikah Sargent
I just wanted to upset John.
2:24:10 - Leo Laporte
Because John saying no, it was 2001. I did not do the show in 2001. I was busy doing the tech TV or something. Uh, TWiT dot TV slash. Ttg is another way to get to tech guy labs dot com. Or search for tech guy in your favorite podcast app or ask the tech guys or any variation thereof, and it should show this up. It's the same feed as the tech guy feed, so it should just show up there. Thank you so much, everybody. That's my sergeant. You'll see him on iOS today, tuesday mornings, little early this time, 8am. You're gonna start, yeah, 8am Pacific and then see Mikah and me as we talk about Apple's launch 10am and then backbreak weekly. You're going to stick around for that, I hope, on Tuesday.
2:24:52 - Mikah Sargent
You'll also see Mikah on Thursdays with tech news weekly and and uh wow, I forgot what it was called Hands on Mac, which comes out on Thursdays. We're still in the hands. The hands were here, we couldn't remember the name. Where do I put? Them In this this show with this on on a Mac.
2:25:08 - Leo Laporte
Um, is there anything else to say? No, stay tuned. Amazing Tweet coming up to Taylor Lawrence. Yeah, amy Webb, jill Duffy, what a powerhouse. It's going to be a great show, absolutely. And, uh, we will do that next. Thanks everybody, we'll have a great time, a great week. I'll see you for mom's house from the basement. On behalf of Mikah Sergeant, I'm Leo Laporte. Have a great week. Bye bye.
2:25:32 - Scott Wilkinson
Hey there, Scott Wilkinson here. In case you hadn't heard: Home Theater Geeks is back. Each week I bring you the latest audio video news, tips and tricks to get the most out of your AV system, product reviews and more. You can enjoy Home Theater Geeks only if you're a member of Club TWiT, which costs seven bucks a month, or you can subscribe to Home Theater Geeks by itself for only 2.99 a month. I hope you'll join me for a weekly dose of home theater geekitude.