Windows Weekly 927 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show. Also, Leo and Richard's voices were confused and combined in the transcript, unfortunately.
 

00:00 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's time for Windows Weekly.

00:01
Richard Campbell is here. Paul Thorat too. Paul's been busy. He created a Windows 11 feature tracker, at first for his  own use, but now you can use it too. Build is coming. We'll talk about the session catalog and all the AI, every AI sprinkled everywhere. Plus, the number one game in the world is now the number one movie. All that and more coming up next on Windows Weekly Podcasts you love From people you trust. This is Twit. This is Windows Weekly with Paul Theriot and Richard Campbell, episode 927. Recorded Wednesday, april 9th 2025. Up to stuff. It's time for Windows Weekly, the show we get together with two people who shall remain nameless, not for very long, but yeah To talk about Windows At Microsoft. Paul Theriot is in Roma, north day, mexico city from throtcom. Hello Paul, hello Leo. And also with us Richard Campbell, who very kindly stuck around and did the the leather butt impression last week. I was inspired. Good news, you don't have to this week. We've got Corey doctor. Oh, we can all go home early, it'll be. Yeah, geez, I wish I would be on that show.

01:28 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I love that you could be on it. If you want, you could stick around, it's all right, brother wednesday's richard campbell day.

01:33 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Richard just worked the whole day, right, yeah. But but say definitely, say hi for me I'm an admirer, he's amazing. Oh, I know, he's always fascinating, yeah rich is back home in uh beautiful madera park.

01:45
Nice to see you. I bet you're happy to be there, happy to be home. And uh, arrived home to a puppy because, you know, having a granddaughter wasn't enough, now we have a puppy. Oh, I thought you were calling your new baby a puppy. Oh, nope, you have a puppy and a grandbaby. Yes, so yeah, now, full, full plate, all all the loves. That's, we got more biting now, but you know all the loves. Oh, no, it's one. Of what kind of puppy? Yeah, she's a cross, there's a little poodle in there, so she got Springs in her legs and some Bernese and some Aussie Shepherd and some call it sounds perfect yeah, it's gonna be as long as you get the best of each breed.

02:19
We'll see. We'll see what we got. You know you find out later and you can't return them back in again, right the? Warranty expires before you know anything oh no, that sounds like it's a bundle of love. I think you're gonna love it. That's great, is it your dog or your kid's dog. It's my wife's dog. The last one was supposed to be her dog too, and it didn't work out that way, so that's why I'm going this is why I'm going out of town. That's your cat, not my cat that's your cat.

02:44
But you know, next week after the show I head for australia. So she's going to get three weeks of, you know, managing it herself. But she's very confident and she wants the dog more than I do. But she's this is a little love. You know she's something about a dog. They just love you. They love you. He's a sweetie. So paul thurot yes I nipped steve gibson in the bud yesterday. Nipped him in the bud. I nipped him in the bud. That doesn't sound like it's suitable for work, but please on the nose of the newspaper.

03:15
No, I just. We started going on about the bypass nrocmd and I repeated your, your caution that they didn't take. They just took away the batch file, not the commands. It executed and you can still, and steve was mollified. He said oh, that's good. I said it's exactly what we want. You want the kind of uh, unsophisticated user to have. That's what they expect, but you want the sophisticated user to be able to do what they want I also.

03:43 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I mean, we'll see what happens.

03:44 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
That's the thing I you don't think this is a long-term?

03:48 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
plan on microsoft's part to slow. Well, I do actually, unfortunately. That's what he was worried about.

03:54
Yeah, it's part of it. Well, look I off the top of my head, I can't go through all of the steps that they took, but at one, you know, they switch to microsoft. You know you can sign up with a Microsoft account. Well, first you could attach a what used to be called a NET passport or Windows Live passport or whatever it was called, to your Windows whatever 7 account. And then they introduced the ability to sign up with a Microsoft account on Windows 8. And then at some point you it was the default, and at some point they got rid of it in home.

04:23
And at some point actually they got rid of it in home and at some point actually they got rid of it in pro. You know the ability of that is to sign in with local account, right and set up. So you know it's been an escalating series of things. I but, like I said last time and with the mac today as well, um, they really they'd have to fundamentally change windows to really get rid of it, and I just don't. It's never really going to get rid of it.

04:47 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
And there are other workarounds. The motivation here is reducing tech support. Yeah, that's. The clearest, most logical expense in their lives is when folks use these tools not really understanding what they are and get their machine to state they know what to do. Who are they going to call? Who are they going to blame?

05:08 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
This is not going to be them. Look like everything else in life I talked about. I talked about this mcdonald's effect. You know they didn't start mcdonald's to make everyone fat, but they were trying to solve a problem. This is good and bad. It's everything right and microsoft, purposefully, is doing things that drive you toward their services. Right and and that's's understandable, it's a business. It's fine. But the benefits of the Microsoft account outweigh the bad stuff by far. There are very good technical reasons for it and what Richard said, absolutely 100% correct. It gets you in. I talked about this notion of start a Microsoft account or a Google account but use a different email address. Automatic recovery built in. You're better off. Right there, you're better off. You know the automatic disk encryption stuff. Right there, better off.

05:51 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, and most people expect that right, so they don't want to be told oh well, we're going to talk about these features coming in Windows 11, right?

05:59 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So there's a feature there either. I can't remember. I can't keep this track. I can't keep this stuff straight. That's the point. There's a feature either coming or in Windows 11 now, all of a sudden, that if you sign it with a Microsoft account and it knows that you have not set up recovery methods through another email address, phone number, whatever it will prompt you to do so, that's also better for you. Now, I know a lot of these prompting things are the types of things I do complain about, but those are the things that don't have a benefit for me, or, uh, or Microsoft driving me to do something that's better for them, exclusively right, like a lot of the edge behaviors, um, or whatever. So it's good and bad, but mostly good and for most people it's the right decision.

06:44 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, that's nothing to argue with and you know they're not taking away functionality, they're just making.

06:48 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
you need a little more expertise to be successful with it hey, listen, the people who are windows experts or tech experts this is you should love this. That's what you want. You want to be able to do something other people can't figure out that's how this is all you ever wanted. It's perfect. Yeah, what's the problem? Well, the problem is you're afraid they're going to take it away, but but I don't know, I just don't see that. But we'll see.

07:09 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
We'll see how it evolves I, I think this is such a perfect compromise for microsoft and I I feel like, uh, why would they insist on a microsoft account? I mean, that's what you know, that's what the conspiracy theory is. Oh, they just want to get you in, but you'd already bought, you're already using Windows. I don't know, it's far too late for that. Anyway, you're already in man.

07:30 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I got stupidly involved in a thread on wherever Twitter thread threads, whatever it was where I don't even know. It was just in response to some auto post about something I or Laurent had written on threatcom something about Google or whatever. And some had writing written on throughoutcom something about google or whatever and some guy, apropos nothing just chimes in with like I bought a google pixel phone but I got all the google crap off of it. I installed some other operating system and it's like I'm sorry, what you? You wanted the weaker processor with no battery life, but not the google stuff I you know. That's why you buy that phone. What are you?

08:02 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
talking about. Well, you can't. I mean in fact, um, there is a company that sells this phone, de-googled and uh, and you could put, there are, you know, some nice if you want to do anything, anything, how about take a samsung flagship and de-samsung that, that would be useful. Or put pixel, because this has android on there. This has some hardware feature. Oh, you think this is a worse processor than the samsung?

08:26 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
it's objectively a worse, much worse processor yeah. Performance and battery life yeah, even. Uh, even the ai processing is is worse oh, I didn't know that.

08:35 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, it's it's kind of bizarre but this is, this is you own a pixel, right? Yeah, I love it. So nine, they do. Okay, but in the future would you say, buy a Samsung.

08:46 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
See, I don't want the Samsung. No, because when I buy a Samsung, I see it and I hate it and I hate everything on it and everything. That's what I mean. If I could get the Samsung hardware Right, the Google Pixel software, ah, the whole thing, that would be. That's the. That's. That's probably doable. I'll have to. I'll look over an xda developers and see what I can't.

09:12 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It takes two seconds before you have to sign the three samsung agreements that you give away your third child and whatever else is in there. It's crazy. I regret I'm mostly samsung tvs and I deeply regret it. Uh, we have that frame tv.

09:19 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, I hate it I'm so disappointed and it's that samsung smart tvs where you like. I just sign in to receive your virus over the air. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Sign in to get your free virus or don't sign in and we'll just prompt you to sign in all the time We'll be great.

09:35 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, they pop up stuff all the time, you know, the terms have changed, I know.

09:48 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
It's like I'm watching a show here, do you mind exactly? I'm in the middle of severance over here. Do you think you could hold it a second? Well, you know, like you know, like I know, no, I, I don't understand I?

09:52 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I don't get. I don't get samsung. I have a problem with this. Let's get hard, cory. Dr rowan, he is. He's coming up in two hours one day.

09:58 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I mean, he comes up, uh, a couple of times, not him, you know, but the inshinification stuff comes up a couple times today, uh, later in the show, including right at the end of my bit, where, you know, looking for those things that are the opposite of that right which, because, yes, some things in our world, there aren't many.

10:13 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's a short conversation there's a reddit um subreddit I really like, called buy it for life, oh nice, and the premise is you buy it once and you never have to buy it again. And of course, none of that is technological. It's all things like KitchenAid mixers.

10:30 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
But I think that copy of paperclip I have for the Commodore 64 is still cooking around. It's fine, it's all I need to write, baby.

10:38 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Introduce you. I'm sorry I hijacked the show. I will not. I just wanted you to know that I defended. Yeah, I I hijacked the show, I will not. I just wanted you to know that I defended.

10:48 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
yeah, I can't believe this windows microsoft to steve gibson and this is the cancerous effect I have on people.

10:51 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I'm sorry I mean, really, you're just picking the least effort alternative. Right, it's occam's razor. What is the least they need to do to create outrage? Just take the script away.

11:01 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah yeah, I keep saying you know, we have plenty to be outraged about, we don't need to make stuff up. There's you know, there's all kinds of stuff going on in our world. It's you know, don't worry, we'll get there. How did I get out of this? I keep clicking on things in Notion and I go somewhere else. Anyway.

11:18 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I am on the Notion spreadsheet that you use. What do you call this database file page notes that you use and it says the next feature of this show will be introducing the windows 11 feature tracker yes, it does.

11:36 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I was like what does it say?

11:37 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I'm like, I don't see, what does it mean? No, you're right, it does so I'll show you what does that mean, right, yep, what does that mean? What?

11:43 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
does that mean yes? What does that mean? Yeah, a couple of weeks ago, microsoft did that little shift very quietly. They took the dev channel out of 24H2, new build stream, and then they're calling it 24H2. So I was like, okay, they're onto something here that's going to be 25H2. Probably it could be Windows 12. We don't know yet, but this is a new version of Windows, so this thing has been gnawing me in the back of my brain. I've got this book. It's grown to 1,200 pages. It's stupid I need. Keeping up with what Microsoft is doing is very difficult. I don't feel like there are many people in the world that care as much as I do and yet are as confused by it as much as I am. You know, if you don't care, it's easy to not be confused. Yes, caring too much is the path to confusion, also to outrage and anger. But I I ended up writing this gigantic article where I walked into um listing what?

12:40 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
wait a minute. I'm sorry, I have to stop. I have a free gift from thuratcom. Let me just enter my email. Sorry, here it is so this is. This is this is awesome before we get to that, hold on so okay, okay, just, but okay, don't pay, no attention to that.

12:54 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
um, no, a couple weeks ago I just I kind of went through just for my own edification did this thing I should have been doing for years and years now but have never really done, which was go, and I just stuck with the dev channel. I didn't look at other channels or individual apps. What did they announce, what features did they add and when, and did they ever make their way to stable? I came up with a list of 15 major features, some of which everyone knows like recall, click to do, et cetera, that had never shipped in stable. Yet I mean, they will, right, right but I'm like so we need to keep track of this.

13:29
So I was like, all right, I'm gonna. I sort of said vaguely, I'm gonna work on this. It's. I knew it would take a lot of time. Two days later, microsoft put out something called the windows roadmap, which was a list of features we've been testing for windows 11 but haven't shipped yet, or what here's when they're going to ship. I'm like, oh good, now I don't have to do this work. So then I looked at it.

13:46 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It was garbage and really incomplete, and even though the thing I did was by definition, incomplete, it was way, way better than what microsoft would come up with I like your, I like your hero shot at the beginning of your article in which you have written something and then you go to rewrite and casual, formal, refined, so the reason that screenshot exists is because I wanted to list what the features were for rewriting in text actions.

14:16 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, but also so I took one of this and I took one of an image with the image options yeah and then when I was looking for a shot to the article, I was like, oh, actually, I got one. There's a windows 11 feature. That to the article. I was like, oh, actually, I got one. There's a windows 11 feature that's never shipped. I'll use that click I didn't actually use it to rewrite anything.

14:30 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I mean, I'm not an idiot, but anyway uh you realize this is going to become the website of misfit windows toys, right eventually I love it, which is actually a much better title for my book as well.

14:51 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Maybe a subtitle. So, yeah, that's good, I like that. So I, coming into this week um, I don't remember it randomly, I guess it was too it was just randomly Tuesday and I was like I'm going to do this thing, I'm going to, I'm actually going to make this, and, as I, I wrote an article about why and what I was going to do, and then, and that's the thing you see highlighted in that image and it was going to include the tracker at the bottom of it, and then I was like, wait a minute, this is too long. I'll just say that I'm going to do it. I'll just do. I'll do the next one on patch Tuesday, which is probably next week.

15:19
I look at the calendar. I'm like, oh, it's today, great, so patch tuesday was yesterday. So I was like I gotta get going on this. So I'm writing away, I'm doing it. I'm you know it's growing and growing and growing. And laurent texts me and he says, hey, the patch tuesday updates are out. I'm like, kill me, okay.

15:34
Um, I had written what I had written based on the preview update from two weeks ago. It turns out 100 accurate to what was released tuesday. So that worked out pretty, pretty good. But I just did it as a webpage, right? So the thing, leo, you can show it now. I'm sorry, the thing you were showing is the thing I came up with, but even as I did it, I sort of realized I'm going to be republishing this whenever I don't know exactly, like maybe every two weeks, week D, week B, maybe just on patch Tuesday, I don't know, I'm not sure yet. This is going to kind of evolve as I do it, but I was like I need this to be kind of better than this. Right, I need it to be maybe interactive. Brad was talking to me this morning. He says, hey, I saw this thing you did. You should do this in Notion and write Notion. He's like, yeah, notion has, like databases, they have tables, they have whatever. I don't know if you can make it interactive where other people could contribute.

16:33
You could also make it a public webpage, which is nice, which I have done, and so that's actually. No, I'm sorry I've not completed it, but you're working on it. He told me this this morning. Today is completed it, but you're working on it. He, he told me this this morning. I, today is wednesday. I, I'm in mexico, so this is two hours earlier for me than it would be if I was in the united states also.

16:51 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
This is non-trivial. To move this all over, you've got to yeah, but I'll do it.

16:54 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
It's okay because I only have to do it once and then the um, but do you want people to edit it? I mean I wouldn't make it. Well, I, I I do like the idea of a github type thing where they make a like I guess you call a push request or whatever, and I can know, maybe that, maybe, but that's not super important to me. I mean, the big thing for me is I need to keep track of this for myself. I I think it's useful for other people.

17:18 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
This is incredible yeah, but this is just so yeah, this is just the web-based version.

17:23 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So yeah, there's a Notion version where I just put the first three into a very basic table just to kind of see what it might look like. It looks so good. There's almost no way I'm not using this. It's really neat looking and there is a link to it, I think in the notes, at the, the bottom of that first paragraph. I don't know if it will come up on yeah, for me it's coming up.

17:48
It's coming up and like copy the link and then paste it into our browser. I don't know why it's, it's coming up inside of notion for me, but if you look at it on the web, you can see. You know, by the way, this is just rough. I just roughed in three things, but I'm like I saw this and I was like, yeah, because you can filter this in different ways, you can sort it in different ways.

18:09 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Um, you know it has all those interactions. You kind of want to have the data set in github and then maybe generate to this, so then you get all that. People can contribute and write issues, yeah, and then I could say okay, and it gets into, yes, the other way decide when to propagate it into.

18:24
Let me further complicate it Yep, the other way you could do it is a wiki. Yes, use media wiki and you could have the same editing features that a Wikipedia has. So you could have contributors. Yep, you could have conversations. Yeah, I mean, there's different ways. If you have a VPS. Setting up media wiki is pretty trivial. I've done it, okay, and then?

18:47 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
And I'm not trying to turn the creation of this thing into a career, I know, I know, but I do. Now that I've sort of done one thing like this, I'm like, yes, notion is a very straightforward way to do this. Yeah, I feel very stupid not to have done this before.

19:03 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
This was this is almost just for your own consumption, to organize your thoughts around these things.

19:08 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So yeah, we'll see where this goes, the notion link though I don't.

19:12 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
So the last link in that first paragraph, if you right click it and do um copy link I'm looking at the premium version and I don't know. No, on the, on the notes, in the notion notes, the last link, oh, our notes. Oh, you mean like the.

19:27 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
It says like a notion website but don't click it in notion. You have to right click and choose copy link or something open a new window. Okay, um nice, yes oh, this is sweet, sweet this was 10 minutes of work, you know, just to like.

19:46 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
No, this is what Notion is made for. It's basically a database, right, it's literally a database.

19:52 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah. So one thing that Well, yeah. So, like I said, yesterday was Patch Tuesday, so Patch Tuesday has a long list of new features. So if you're following along with the preview update stuff from two weeks prior, you knew that.

20:09 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It was quiet for a while, but it seems they're in full swing again. Oh, yeah.

20:14 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So what I found doing this feature tracker were a couple of things. One is that there are now roughly two dozen I think over two dozen major features for Windows 11 that are in testing and have never shipped.

20:30 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
And they're still calling in 24H2, like when 25?.

20:35 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I know it's crazy. Also, if you look at the list of new features from this patch Tuesday, every single one of them and I mean every single one of them is a CFR, a controlled feature release, meaning they will roll out randomly. There are no features that you will get automatically on every PC on day one. It's just like the stupidest kind of crazy thing. Tied to this, the same day that I did the tracker, microsoft later that day posted a major update to the copilot app in the insider preview program to all channels, which suggests that it will come out imminently. It's tied to some stuff we'll talk to later in the show from the consumer ai day. Uh, it has a couple of new features related to searching for files from within, copilot and analyzing the content, obviously, and for vision, but that's you know. We'll talk about that later.

21:34
And people discovered that the latest builds in the Insider program have a new start menu that's completely well, very different, quite different from the one that we have now. Completely well, very different, quite different from the one that we have now. I would say that the start menu in Windows 11 was one of the more controversial bits when they first shipped it, especially Not particularly configurable. No, it took away features primarily. Yeah, but it's also really badly done, like just from as a programming project. It's badly done. So by default you have a pin section at the top and a recommended section at the bottom. You can choose some basic layout changes where you have more space for pinned or more space for recommended. But if you deleted every item in pinned you would just have some empty space at the top of the start menu it doesn't have an auto flow sense or anything it's.

22:28
It's really dumb. Um. So the new update, the start menu, gets bigger, wider and taller. Um, it's still not resizable, which is stupid. You just be able to do that in windows 10, you may recall, but they have different sections and then different views that you can customize, so you can have a category view, a name list or name grid, uh, and all your apps are on the front page now by default, uh, at the bottom of the start menu. So it's more customizable as well. And, of course, they're all separately rolling out this update for phone link users, where you get that phone link cancerous side thing that sits there like it's just doing what it does.

23:06
Yeah, it's very strange telling me to connect while still being connected really, really, really wants to turn all the notifications on, no matter what you want, the entire day yesterday telling me it was disconnected and it was connected, just fine and updating, and I don't know, you know it's not very good, but you know nothing they do is very good, I guess. So this is where we're at, but anyway, this kind of highlighted that between the co-pilot app getting updated yet again and this thing that they have not yet announced but will soon, I'm sure um, you know, windows there these changes are coming like there's a lot of stuff happening and, um, it just kind of highlighted the need of I mean a lot of ways.

23:44
I feel like that's a good thing too, right like there's clearly a group of people working on stuff and the problem is those people are driving around in a clown car and they have brightly colored noses and clothes and big shoes. No, um, I, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, you're right, I you're right, you were.

24:02 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
You were sadder when you thought they weren't paying any attention at all that's the thing I.

24:06 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
If we've learned anything, it's that I'm never going to be happy. So what's the difference?

24:10 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
you know we might as well, make stuff, abuses us and upsets you. Yeah, yeah, all right, you are watching windows weekly. We're very happy that you're here. You winners and dozers, you, and so are, as, uh, so are paul thurott and richard campbell, and the show continues on with. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you more windows 11. I'm really excited about the fact that there's two segments on windows. Yeah, this is fancy in some ways. There are three, but we'll get to that. Oh, no is this?

24:42 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
oh, no, oh I got, I no. I don't know why you call it Windows Weekly anymore.

24:48 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Does somebody say that?

24:49 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
No, no, not really. That would be so sad. So, looking back at the Insider program, there were two major sets of builds over the past week. I don't remember anymore if these are even in the tracker thing. If they're not, they will be. I don't remember anymore if these are even in the tracker thing. If they're not, they will be.

25:04
But in the beta channel for 23H2, testing changes to Explorer. So there's some like what will happen if you have a file Explorer open and then you window open and then you open a new file Explorer window, does it have the same tabs? Does it do different tabs? So they're kind of playing around with that. And then this context menu thing we've been talking about forever, back in 24h2, back in like where we are now. I mean, back when they first shipped it a million years ago, like almost a year ago, right for co-pilot plus pcs, they had fixed those context menu icons that look like hieroglyphics by adding labels to them. Yeah and genius, right. This is the one feature that I know of that has not shipped in 23h2. Microsoft has been testing it in 23h2 and has pulled it twice and now they're saying we, they might not be doing it, it might be a render. So maybe there's, maybe there's some, yeah, some. I don't know. Something's wrong in there for some reason, in 23H2, where they can't get it to work right.

26:09 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
You can't crash your machine with captions. That's just unacceptable.

26:13 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, it's kind of it's weird. So, okay, we'll see what happens there and then dev and beta in the 24H2 time frame or build frame or whatever. However, we're saying that a bunch of things, and actually one of these is really exciting. So they're bringing back this notion of taskbar scaling. So as you add icons to the taskbar, the taskbar will get smaller, the icons get smaller so you can fit more in screen instead of doing that silly overflow area. But tied to this is an option we used to have in the taskbar I don't even know how long ago, for a long time where you could just keep it small. So it's basically the small icons view, which is what I want. I mean, I you know, not that it's taking up an inch or two but perfect, yeah, yeah.

27:03
So we're going, we're going back in time there. And then this I don't quite understand. I feel like Microsoft is kind of screwing around with UI a little bit too much here. But in a coming build of Windows or a coming version of Windows or whatever, we're going to get this change to the right-click share menu. So you right-click on a file. I'm just going to do it now so I can tell you what it says.

27:30
And today in Windows 11, one of the options is share. So coming soon, that's one of those items in the tracker. Share is actually going to trigger a submenu and there'll be a list of apps that are compatible with that thing, which you would normally have to go to the share pane for, or somewhere at the bottom there's an option that just says more share or whatever it says, and that will bring up the normal share pane and those apps will be there too. But there'll be the other ways you can share. So now they're introducing a variant of that, where you pick up a file and drag it.

27:58
Oh, actually, this isn't this bill. So I have the, I'm on the dev channel, so I drag it to the top and you get a little pop down thing like we get for snap, and it says drag here to share and there is a list of apps that are compatible with sharing this thing, and then a more, and if I go to more it opens the share page. So it's two ways to do the same thing, which is the most Microsoft thing I've ever heard of At least two, I mean.

28:22 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's going to be more. They're really desperate for you to use share, so they're just going to put it in more places yeah, there are actually, there are more.

28:28 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So there's also the toolbar based way to do it in file explorer.

28:31 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Um, yeah, so just and I mean except for that part where the thing you want to share it to doesn't support that, it works great yes, um, when I did do the tracker the other day, it feels like it was a million years ago.

28:47 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
It was yesterday. That's how long ago it was. Yesterday was hours ago, yeah, 24 hours ago, or, in my brain, 48 years ago when I did the tracker. That's what it feels like. Um, I I talked about it a little bit.

29:00
I, leo, said, oh, I love this screenshot. I said the reason it exists is because I was taking a screenshot so I could list the actions for both text and graphics, and I noticed that one of them was called Ask Copilot. I was like that's kind of interesting. I actually don't remember that being an option. That's because it's one of the newest features. They just added it to the dev channel and the beta channel in 24-H2. And what it does is it brings up the copilot app so that you can go and learn more about the thing you've selected, whether it's text or a graphic, right, so that's fun or not, I don't know. And then, just because I know this is an ongoing issue for every single human being that's ever used Windows and is technical in any way, microsoft is dripping out little features in the settings that used to only be available in Control Panel and in this build they're adding some accessibility, mouse and pointer and touch features into settings that used to trigger one of those Control Panel windows not the Control Panel itself, but the little windows.

30:04 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I don't know why they've not really had an initiative to simply retire a control panel, to really just go through and make sure everything is somewhere else.

30:12 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yep, I can't explain it. I feel like there's some legacy extensibility thing that I'm just not privy to that.

30:21 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Maybe it's some businesses, I suspect there's stuff in control panel that nobody's prepared to replace, right right. And there's lots of third-party stuff in control panel, right that, right, your real tech audio stuff like this, and who wants to fix that? Yeah?

30:35 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I mean I I only know a little bit about this because I've been sort of half working on this kind of windows tweak utility thing.

30:42
But one of the things that's really interesting to me about the settings app is that you can construct a link and thus a button or whatever is in an app or it could be a shortcut on your desktop that will trigger a particular page or even option in settings.

30:59
So, for example, one of the ones I I actually made a shortcut out of is I just call it colors and when I double click, it settings opens and navigates to personalization colors, and it lets me switch back and forth between dark and light mode quickly, which I have to do when I'm testing apps or like when I'm on a podcast like this. I have to be in dark mode because otherwise, you know, it'd be like this lightning bolt in my face. Every single thing in settings can be linked to that way, so you can go right to those things, and I I don't know this for a fact, but I believe that everything, every single setting as well, can be programmatically set using a similar syntax or whatever it is. So that's like to me that alone makes settings the better option, you know, for everything I wish, I do wish they would kind of move to that but I mean, in theory, we're going to co-pilot all the things, since I just, I mean, what do I need to ask this machine?

31:54 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
most of the time it's like would you turn up? Turn up all the microphone settings. I don't care where they are, Just turn them up.

32:00 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
You, you do this a lot. Um, you, I think you said something that cut right to the heart of the matter, which is that might be why what I just described is true, so that co-pilot can do it for you. That literally might be the reason. Yeah, this is the destination is. Yeah, that's very interesting. I look, that's that's interesting, that you said that. Um, I think I think that might be it. I'm gonna just talk myself into that now, okay.

32:24 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Okay, let's just believe it, it'll be easier yeah.

32:29 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
There is an app called Intel Unison that is like PhoneLink and for a long time it had features that were not available in PhoneLink, including iPhone support, which is now available in PhoneLink. Finally, not as good as Android obviously as good as android, obviously. Um, last year at ifa, lenovo announced a, you know, expanded their partnership with intel and they they're creating these things called aura edition laptops, right, so they're think pads, idea pads. I might be missing something.

32:57
Yoga, yoga, yeah, right, that have aura additions and our additions have these software experiences that Intel and Lenovo co-created, most of which are not super interesting, but the best one is tied to this Unison app, and the idea with this is that you bring your phone to your computer and you don't actually have to tap it. They show you tapping it. You just have to bring it close to any side of these computers which have proximity sensors on them. It will launch a unison experience that comes out of that side of the screen, wherever the phone is, so that you can move photos back and forth, to do whatever you know, whatever. The options are really neat. Um, that's going away because unison or apple or geez, intel is killing the unison app and, uh, for most people that's going to end at the end of june, but for people with our edition laptops, it's going to uh, you bought a laptop for this feature.

33:51 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Another problem with this is.

33:54 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I'm sorry, but unless I'm missing something and you know this is always a challenge for me it could be. If you want the latest thinkpad x1 carbon, that's an r edition laptop. I don't think there is a non or edition laptop. I kind of hope R edition laptop. I don't think there is a non-R edition laptop. I kind of hope I'm wrong. But I don't think it costs any extra because of that or anything. But you get the logo when the thing boots up. It's on the screen.

34:13 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
But if you selected the machine because you really wanted that feature, you're very annoyed.

34:17 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
That's going to be yeah, it's not a good thing possible that something could change between now and then, in the sense of there'll be an alternative, or maybe lenovo takes this on themselves and they can do this functionality just for that, their machines, I don't know. But corporate the phone link, goodness knows. Yeah, that would be one option too. So we'll, we'll see. But this uh warning is everywhere. Intel has never announced it formally, but if you go to the app listing in the Microsoft Store for Windows, the Apple App Store, the Google Play Store, it's there.

34:50 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
This is being deprecated.

34:52 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Don't fall in love with this app. This is happening pretty quietly but it's happening.

34:57 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
So, what does it do?

35:00 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
It's a phone connectivity app, so it's sort of like phone you have a smartphone in your computer.

35:04 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
so if you have phone, like do you?

35:05 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
need it? Um, the r edition feature that I described, where you tap the side of the device, is unique. But do you need it? No, I mean honestly, phone link has gotten to the point where it's actually very good yeah, I think phone is great.

35:19 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I didn't even know about unison, yeah it they don't say this.

35:23 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
It's weird. In the the intel disc, my understanding was that dell owned the company that made this and it was unique to dell for a while and I don't know if I spun it off or I sold it or something. It became its own company and then intel bought that company and it was like, oh good, now we'll be everywhere and it's like no, we're going to strike deals with pc makers. So it was hp, lenovo and, I think, acer not every single computer, but some range of them would come with this app. And you know, for a while it was actually very valuable because, you know again, phone link didn't do certain things, including, most notably, work with iphones.

36:01 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
But you know, now it does it kind of looks like apple's continuity right, where you just everything it moves around from all your devices.

36:10 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yep, as long as they're all intel I always. You know, this is like the samsung dex thing, where it gives you a desktop and it's like yeah yeah, dex was discontinued too weirdly because intel I mean google in that case is adding this to android, right?

36:24
that's where it should come from, right. So you kind of want it to be in the platform, not from you know you don't want it. Just on certain computers, I mean, maybe the computer maker, the pc makers might. But you know, as a user you want to be able to buy the computer you want and get those feet. You know that should be in the platform. Um, so phone link has gotten to the point where it's there and it's good. It's not as bad as it used to be.

36:48 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
No, it's good. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to qualify it Damned by faint praise.

36:53 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
No, it used to be barely acceptable to acceptable, depending on the kind of phone you have. No, but it's actually very good. Let's talk about build. Yeah, I'd love to, but I can't get. No, it won't scroll.

37:04 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Okay, let's talk about build yeah, I'd love to, but I can't get. No, we won't scroll. I don't know what's going on. All right, well, so this is the day of uh technical snafu.

37:09 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I know, I don't know what. This has been a crazy day.

37:12 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
The thing I didn't tell you guys, I'm not supposed to jinx me, I'm the one with all the hardware problem. Yeah, you're doing all right now.

37:16 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah so I I was, I was my computer that I use for this is installing a build, or, yeah, a build. So normally you go through the screen 17, 70, whatever it takes a couple minutes comes back right. This time it rebooted and it went into that kind of windows update screen where it's like smaller text and it's going to be there for like a long time and I was like okay. So I said, well, it's one minute of two or one minute of 12, I guess here I should probably get another computer now. I've not used this computer for the show, so I gotta figure that. I asked, richard, if you wouldn't mind sending me the link, blah, blah, whatever. I connected to the dock, I get the thing.

37:53
My keyboard stopped working and I'm like what's happening? And I looked out the batteries were dead so I had to have. You know, my wife threw me some batteries. I'm like this is like. This is like the way this day is going. It's just so. Um, this is probably 15 years ago or something like it. Well, almost 10 years ago, 10, 12 years ago, my son comes home from school one day and he goes hey, I heard about this, I don't even remember what the feature was. He's like something is coming to xbox, whatever was new at the time. I'm like yep, and he goes. The reason I know about this is some goon named paul thorat said it on like twitter or whatever and I was like okay.

38:28 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
So I learned today that did your son not know who his daddy was?

38:35 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
he was, he was joking, oh his sense of like man humor you know he's just gonna ridicule me, right? So I was doing the show notes and I go through and I refresh the front page and I'm like, oh, the build session catalog is live. I learned on my own website from someone else who wrote it. So I wrote lauren, I'm like I'm gonna tell you what my son told me, which is, I know about this, some goon on my website wrote about it, laurent. So, no, that's cool.

39:08
So, as expected, lots of AI, whatever, but also AI across the stack, right, and so if you go and look at the NET dev stuff, you'll see AI and NET as you would. So, using AI in MAUI, using AI in AI, just in NET in general, whatever, there's a lot of that stuff. I looked at the Windows thing, which is one of the shorter ones, but, as expected, windows Copilot Runtime, which they announced last year, built and have yet to ship, by the way and stable. It's available in preview. Finally, but that's a recent development Windows Actions, which are the things that Copilot in Windows can do with Windows features so tied to that thing we were just talking about with settings, but not just settings actions, but also app actions, right, this is going to turn into that kind of orchestrator type thing we always talk about and some other stuff. You know there's even a native app, experiences talk, which you know is going to win ui3 and the windows app sdk and that's fine.

40:08
Um, uh, some rm64 stuff, so that's exciting. Yeah, um, I know both of us are going and, richard, this is something I got to talk to you about because I signed up for it and microsoft is only offering um hotel rooms through Tuesday Interesting.

40:27
Before the show really gets going, yeah, so well, there's a thing on Sunday and then there's the Monday day, one thing. So I could go home Tuesday and just do it normally, or I could stay through Thursday. But I have to figure out the hotel, so I got to. We'll talk about that offline. We didn't do our schedule thing on our dime, I guess.

40:47 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I do have a video rigged booth, so we should be having some fun. I'll make sure I block out the Wednesday block for us. I am really confused by this, but I don't know why the hotel rooms are messed up. That's not right.

40:58 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, I don't know I'm thinking about contacting them and saying could I stay through Wednesday night? Is that a thing?

41:04 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's worth a try, yeah.

41:07 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I'm staying until.

41:08 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Thursday, and then I'm flying to South Africa.

41:10 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Jeez, wow, yeah, I'll be coming there from I almost said Boston from where do I live? Pennsylvania, I don't know. It's been a while.

41:21 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Richard, you're such a mocker. It's great A mocker. You just it's great a mocker. You got the, you got the thing wired up man already going with the thing, with the stuff, for sure, you got the stuff, the thing. You got the booth, you got the cameras. It's amazing.

41:34 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I barely have the paul doesn't even have a room. I can't even. I can barely just roll out of bed and show up, you know well, we'll see.

41:43 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
This is a new rig we're experimenting with, so we'll see how it goes. I've got it. I got a few youtubers coming in, so I figured I'd get them a rig. And when? We aren't you kind do my best. Everybody's saying we should do a um joint show with um. Who's that windows youtuber that they all like used to work at Microsoft. You know who I'm talking about.

42:08 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Dave Plummer, dave Plummer. So I love him in a sense, like I watch every video he's ever made and I watch them as they come out. I don't know that I, from a personality perspective, I don't know that I, from a personality perspective, I don't know I don't know, I'm not a good fit youtuber.

42:28
Yeah, youtubers are characters too, so you don't know what the guest's experience would be well, I know what it was like experiencing meeting him in person and I could just tell you that I don't know. You know like it was. You know I don't know, so I don't know. Maybe like it was you know, I don't know, so I don't know, maybe maybe. Well, that's fine, he doesn't. Obviously he has a good show, though I like his show quite a bit.

42:51
Um yeah, no, it's. You know his whole shtick is. He worked on nt in the heyday and, uh, like you know, the latest show he was. He does a q a thing sometimes, which was the one I was just watching, listening to and uh, he was you know, everyone has your skill set paul, just no, no, no, no. Or his skill set, he's a. You know, he's actually kind of a genius, he's a knowledgeable?

43:12
oh yeah, no he wrote fear the a lot of the shell that went into 95 and nt4. And someone was asking about windows me and he's like, look, I never even installed this thing. I I know that people seem to hate it for some reason. He doesn't quite understand why, uh. But he said I you know it's 9x, so my code was in there. But he's like I could tell you my code wasn't the problem you know, like he's like he may have had problems, but it wasn't my, it wasn't my fault.

43:40
That's all I'm saying. I thought that was kind of funny, but it's very funny. Yeah, no, I like, I like that. I like his video quite a bit.

43:45 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's uh yeah, you know, he doesn't need us. That's fine, people can watch both he clearly doesn't need me.

43:51 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, he made that one he made that pretty clear.

43:55 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Um, I don't need you, therod, I just don't need you, yep, okay. Well, it's nice to meet you too, sir. Youtubers are a breed apart. That's why I I was very impressed that Richard has invited some YouTubers. I invited the nice ones.

44:08 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, I mean, well, there are the YouTubers who are like wearing the hats backwards and doing the hey dog, you know, blah, blah, blah thing, but I think the YouTubers that he would have on his show are, you know, they're talking about IT topics. These are not showy. You know, idiots know idiots.

44:26 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, youtube is not like that at all he's just highly technical it's all different yeah, you know he's great yeah uh. So what are you? So? Are you gonna go to? Well, you don't have to. Well you are going.

44:37 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna watch online, right I think mary jo is not going. I talked to her. She seemed pretty adamant that she was. She might be done doing the traveling stuff, so we'll see. But uh, I'm gonna go. I I need to. I need to see people that aren't my wife every once in a while and, um, you know, you work from home for too long and it's like there's a, there's a world up there, right, there's something out there and then the evenings are particularly fun.

45:01 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
We usually round up a bunch of ww folks and go to a dinner somewhere, and you know I think when you live in new york. You just expect the world to come to you. Yeah, pretty much.

45:10 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
You don't need to go out yeah, sure you don't need to come. I can tell you, living in mexico city, the world does not come to me.

45:18 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Uh, yeah but yeah, I keep, you're just not there. All right, you know I have a big announcement. Can I take a break? And then we'll talk about AI and Microsoft's 50th, because there's a lot of partying that has been going on, but I might have a cause for a party right now. Oh, we are uh, this is uh, we're responding to a long time uh request from our club twit members to. You're going to be very happy to hear this. Restore our yearly plan now leo.

46:00
You know what that means, though yeah, that's why I turn it off kind of like a yeah, that's why I turned it off, kind of like a promise here. That's why I turned it off. Well, I want to promise no refunds If I get hit by a bus no refunds.

46:12 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Leo's guarantee, you're not getting your money back.

46:14 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I promise you that.

46:16 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Money goes one way.

46:18 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
But I really do understand that people hate it that they get a bill for seven bucks every month, right, yeah, hate it that they get a bill for seven bucks every month, right, yeah. So, um, lisa has persuaded me and she has some persuasive capability. Oh, yes, uh, I sleep with her, so you know she can kick me and say, you know the yearly plan, the yearly.

46:38 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
We should do that to me one time yeah, you know.

46:41 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, um, no, and she's right, so we're going to reinstall it. Now here's how this works. When we got rid of the yearly club membership, we made everybody into a monthly. In fact, I just got an email from somebody said what happened. I was a yearly member. Now I'm getting to seven bucks a month.

46:57
Go back into your membership page and turn on the yearly subscription. That option should be there. Now. It's 84 bucks a year, once a year and, um, it doesn't save you money, but it just saves you, like the pain, and for some people in the eu and other places where their card will charge them every time, that does save you money. So, um, if you were annual at any point, you have to and you want to go back to that, go into your subscriptions page and change it to annual. If you're not yet a member, may I encourage you to join the club. Seven bucks a month, $84 a year gets you ad-free versions of this show and every show we do. You get the good feeling of supporting what we're doing. It does make a big difference difference, especially now where the economy is kind of uh, can I say rocky is that a good word? And um and uh, so we're, you know, we don't. We don't know what's coming, but if you and that's one of the reasons we brought back the yearly plan, because then we kind of have a kind of consistent flow and that's good for us. So, so, if you're not a member, twittv slash club twit, choose the monthly or the yearly plan. Sign up today. We would love to have you.

48:12
There are some great events coming up. You get access to a, a club twit discord, which is full of really interesting people, including Paul and Richard, talking about not just the shows but all kinds of things that geeks are interested in. Uh, we also. The club twit discord has become my social network. You know, it's kind of preferable, frankly, to a lot of what else is out there. Um, but we do have a thank you patrick has given us. Twittv slash club twit slash faq. Hashtag switch will explain how to switch plans. But if you just go to twittv slash club twit, everything, everything is there. Some big events coming up. We've got Micah's crafting corner on the 16th a great chance to get cozy, chill and do your craft while Micah does his, which is, it turns out, this time is going to be Lego succulents On the 18th I'm.

49:08 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
You're just mixing words around now, I know.

49:11 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Word salad Coffee time with the coffee geek, mark Prince returns on the 18th and he's bringing Liz Happy Beans with him. We'll talk specialty coffee with Liz Happy Beans. Our AI user group is every fourth friday, anthony nielsen's. Put that together show us how you use ai in your daily life. We've got also stacy's book club and one of the things that's coming up may 16th in a month, and one of the things we've decided to do because we've been getting some heat from the dear and lovely folks at apple.

49:45
When we restream their keynotes, they don't they, you know they have this thing. They say what are you doing? And they, uh, give us strikes and youtube and we got hit on twitch the last time. So we've, we've surrendered and from now on, when we do keynotes, youes, you know how Micah and I and others will Richard's done it, paul's done it, we'll talk over the keynote to kind of annotate it. From now on, those will occur only in the Club Twit Discord, which has two advantages One, the lawyers can't see it and two, you can participate, which I think is actually better. So that first one will be June 9th WWDC. Maybe we'll do Build. I don't know if there's a reason to do that Probably will right. Oh, marcus said that if I say Lego Succulents and Liz Happy Beans in a sentence, it will activate the Manchurian candidate Exactly. Ah, now I understand. All must wait a minute where. Why there's you?

50:52 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
know what? That's the? That's the verbal version of control. I'll delete. It's such an unusual combination. You would only do it on purpose. Also, there are two leos. What's happening?

51:02 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
the man. Venturion, canada, is one of them. I won't tell you which one. Anyway, it is a great club and it is a great benefit to us. Advertising only covers about 90 to 95% of our expenses. We need the club to do the rest, and I don't know how to turn off that extra Leo. Where is it coming from? Now, with extra Leo? There you have it a brand new membership plan for club twit. Tell friends, tell family, um, and thank you for all to all of our club members and thank you in advance for your support, because that's we want to keep doing what we're doing. And uh, with your help, we can twittv, slash club twit.

51:44
Enough, said I'm gonna shut up. Lisa, are you happy? I just hope she'll stop kicking me. That's all. That's all I want. Yeah, no, lisa, and I've been going back and forth on it and yeah, I didn't really want to be committed for a year. But you know what I am I'm in, I'm all in, I'm committed. As long as we can keep doing this, we will all right. I'm dialing out. It's now your show once again.

52:12 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Well, last week we briefly well, not briefly, actually we spent a lot of time talking about the microsoft uh 50th anniversary. Yeah, um, I was getting a lot of pressure to kind of write something about this like a retrospective of some kind. I've been covering the company for 30 years plus and yada, yada, yada. I'm like I wrote a book about this and you can have it for a buck or at the time. Now it's back up to normal price, whatever. Actually, it might be a little. Oh no, I think I made the Windows 10 super. Everybody call it feature. What is it called my stupid book?

52:47 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
field guide Less expensive because it's Anyway Even know that. Okay, whatever it's called, ask Laurent, maybe he'll know yeah.

52:53 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
The thing I wrote over many years. Do you remember You'd?

52:55 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
be like, yeah, it's called, he would know. Now, I don't feel bad for forgetting Sometimes.

52:59 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I forget it? No, I don't really feel like I have any. You know, anyone could run down a. Here are the big milestones, the big things that you know. Windows 95 was a big launch. Remember that. That was huge, you know.

53:15
But for many years, being kind of, you know, a Microsoft guy, right, you'd have to defend yourself to these Apple goons or whoever, and it was always like oh you know, they never innovated, they never invented anything, blah, blah, blah. The one thing I would always say about Microsoft, like the over many years, was you know, actually democratizing tech and bringing tech to the masses is, in its own way, maybe the most important innovation of all, because in fact, that's what Apple does today. Right, I mean, apple gets a lot of credit right now for not entering a market until they have something truly differentiated, and the result is they don't really invent anything new, but they come in late and they usually do a pretty good job of it with a definitive product yeah, microsoft we can't really credit them with that exactly, but microsoft was more of that kind of commodore jack trammell thing where they were the commoditizers, right.

54:03
Yes, we're going to bring, we're going to get rid of the white suits and the lab coats and everything and we're going to bring this stuff down to the masses like the prometheus thing. Um and I, that's for me, for a long time was the big deal, but I have to say today, honestly, their crowning achievement is that's still true. I mean, everything I just said is still the case, but it just is a company. Microsoft avoided that thing that so many companies fall for. That happened to IBM, happens happening right now to Intel, which is you have this one dominant product, you do everything, just like that, nothing else succeeds. The world changes and then you can't change with it and you become irrelevant or disappear. They have made amazing shifts in strategy, first with the cloud and now with AI. That has made them, or kept them, relevant over a period of time when they should have just disappeared, frankly, or at least become irrelevant, right. So I give them a lot of credit for that.

55:05 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
When you compare this to Intel, I mean arguably, both companies missed mobile Yep, and one of them is circling the drain and the other one has pivoted, yep, yep.

55:19 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
And, by the way, apple did this as well. Apple is maybe the only company I can think of that's done similarly and, by the way, the two biggest companies in the world I can think of that's done similarly and, by the way, the two biggest companies in the world. It's kind of interesting. There's really not a lot to say. I wrote a thing about it, but it's not a big deal. It's just that.

55:39
To me, their big deal, the thing that they've done, the thing that will be studied, is not some tech product or service or whatever. It's this ability to change with the times. They didn't always do it right. There was that period in the 2000s where the world was changing web and eventually the cloud and Google came around and did their stuff, and Amazon was able to do their thing, and Apple had resurgence and took over in the mobile space, and those were maybe markets that microsoft of a decade earlier might have addressed a little better. But you know, but faced with these defeats or whatever they, they pivoted and they did a great job. So, yeah, they rolled with it, that's for sure, yep, and they're more successful, but he didn't miss cloud and uh, and we don't.

56:27 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
You know the the I I'm going to say the jury's still out on AI. Obviously, satch is all in. It gets to be his thing that he gets to hang his hat on, but right, I don't think it's going to disappear. I think we've gotten to the bottom of the trough of disillusionment in this crazy hype train right now, and we're on our way solution men in this crazy hype train right now and we're on our way.

56:48 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Have we really managed not to actually? I mean, I think this is a new kind of roller coaster and we might have you know we'll see, but I might be many opportunities for stupid still coming.

56:56 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, but we do seem to be leveling off in some respects and saying what's the practical thing you can do here, right?

57:03 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
right thing you can do here, right, right, yeah, and you know, even just in the confines of windows, if you look at that tracker, a lot of that stuff is AI based. Right, it means it would be, it's it's big focus and, you know, tied to this not coincidentally is this Microsoft consumer AI event they had right last week on the campus and I was invited. I didn't go. Mustafa Suleiman, who is now leading this part of the company, which is a new part of the company, did the, you know, led the presentation, so I think it was his first big public moment.

57:43
Some interesting things I thought he also had some interesting protesters.

57:47 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Uh, really oh that's the person they fired, right? Yeah, that's true.

57:51 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, the employees interrupted his speech and then interrupted the three ceos uh, wow thing uh, to complain about, you know, palestine and israel and all this stuff know, stuff that's central to our industry. Anyway, um, it was, you know, but it was a big world event and I get it. But I was trying. I talked to my wife about this, just like is this, what do you? What's your take on this? You know, and it's like I feel like we both felt like there's there might be ways to protest that, um, maybe weren't uh against your employee contract and maybe illegal, I don't know.

58:28 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Um, but yeah, I question the effectiveness of it. I appreciate their sentiment. Uh, suleiman said I. I hear your protests. You know like yes, the gates.

58:38 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
The way Gates handled the other one was crazy he was. They never said it worked, he just said okay and then just went back to what he was doing.

58:44 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I'd like it had never happened that time it was the second.

58:47 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Go around the audience all booed right like oh, interesting the first round, the first one everyone well, I think everyone was so shocked, right, it's like what's happening because that was an employee-only event.

58:57 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
These were employees, that's right.

58:59 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
That's right and then the second time people reacted more quickly I think you know you could have done a respectful thing, where some group of employees is outside with signs and the reporters have to walk by them and they see it and you know CEO could have acknowledged this and said look, you know, we obviously we disagree with their sentiment, but we also respect them as human beings and want to give them the right to voice their opinions, and that's not the way that went down. But but I that unfortunately kind of falls back on those people who protested, not necessarily on microsoft, because we don't know what microsoft would have done if they had been given the opportunity, you know, to I think you know, handle it, but first of all it's a tough one.

59:41 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
You got to respect somebody who believes strongly enough that they're going to risk their job well and ooze to state their opinion. Um, and I I think that's their right to do.

59:51 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
You're talking to people who have supported microsoft for entire careers.

59:53 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Of course, we know what that's like well, but you know, I've been reading, um, this really provocative, shall we say, book by, uh um alex carp, the founder of palantir, called the Technological Republic, and while I don't agree with everything he says, one of the things he says is if you want to defend the West, technology companies have spent all this energy in this century on crap consumer products, gadgets, selling better ads, surveilling consumers. If they would bend their intelligence and their abilities towards protecting our nation and and promoting our national identity, uh, that might be better. Now, whether you agree that or not, I think you know there were protests, of course, at microsoft for a military contracts. Uh, google famously canceled the maven contract because the engineers said no. Um, he said well, this is.

01:00:50 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I'm sorry to interrupt. This is part of the problem for me, because microsoft at one point refused to solve facial recognition technology law enforcement because it was biased against people with darker skin, right. So they took this moral stance at this point and it seemed like the right thing to do. But now they're every tech company it's not microsoft, but we're. We're all going two feet in right to bow down to despots so that we don't get regulated, hopefully, and get to get to preserve our profits in this case, yeah and expand them. So it's a little less morally defensible.

01:01:25 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
That's what I think, maybe a lot less but, I do think companies and I include microsoft in this, and maybe they're doing it should have a dialogue with their engineers, because they're engineers, they have to. You know, they're reliant on the engineers to write this stuff and write it well. So they should have a dialogue and I think there is a case to be made on both sides. And this debate needs to happen, not somebody shouting at the ceo and getting fired, not the ceo saying, oh well, never mind this is a real conversation.

01:01:53 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Just because of the way everyone is kind of kissing the ring right now and it's maybe now's not the time, it's maybe not the right time.

01:02:00 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I it not. This book was written before the election I'm just thinking about them.

01:02:05 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
You know the protesters, but I well. And have you read the?

01:02:10 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
letters. Yes, so I mean they knew they were going to be fired. They, yeah, oh yeah, of course they were actually one of them.

01:02:16 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So one of them anyway one of them gave their two week notice. Guys, you either quit. You know you don't give you two week notice, and they were so. They were since fired. They're like no, you're fired, you can't quit. You know you don't give you two week notice, and they were so they were since fired. They're like no, you're fired, you can't quit, I fire you.

01:02:30 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, it's just uh, but I think that neither way of handling it is the right way to handle. I think these companies really need to have a parlay because they need the engineers. So we don't, yeah, we don't know we don't know what that?

01:02:43 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
took place, but that was without knowing. My thing was, I feel like they should have given Microsoft the opportunity to formally allow them to address this in a way that would be okay with the company as well, and and respect their rights, maybe, or their opinions, or whatever it is, yeah.

01:03:01 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
There's a case to be made that you know, just as in the 20th century big tech, you know we wouldn't have the Internet, we wouldn't have had the moon missions, you know we wouldn't have the Internet. Darpa led to the Internet, and you know if engineers hadn't worked with government in the national interest. Now maybe we can no longer agree with the national interest is that's possible?

01:03:26 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
But I think it's the discussion, isn't it?

01:03:29 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, and that's one of the arguments against this book, and again, it was written before the election is OK, fine, but remember, you're giving these tools. I mean Palantir does basically AI warfare. You're giving these tools to.

01:03:44 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Well, you said, you said the, the, the, uh, co-founder, co-founder, volunteer, and I was like oh no yeah, like well, he's a very smart guy. I mean, he's not a dummy, so I don't know if I mentioned this, but the, the book about meta that was written by the woman. You know careless people yeah, um is mostly non-technical you did mention that last piece.

01:04:04 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yes, so did you read this, yet I haven't gotten to it.

01:04:06 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I've got, in fact so the central premise is that meta is doing everything I can to bow down to the chinese, because this is the biggest market in the world by far and I would, I would guess that they're giving everything up to china that you can imagine, including all of our stuff, like not just against the people live in, but they're going to give them all of our data as well.

01:04:27
So there are one might say, I don't know possibly national security implications to this. But the reason that Meta is doing the open source LLM thing is because that will benefit China as much as anybody and it will help them get ahead in a world where big tech is actively and the United States is actively trying to keep them down, and that is a messed up accusation that reads as true.

01:04:55 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I again, I don't know the details of this, but it's crazy, but that's crazy, right.

01:04:59 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I mean, so that company is horrible and I, you know, I'm kind of um handcuffed here with a lot of things with twitter and with facebook, um, where I I just don't see an out for myself. But I see people leaving and taking this kind of moral stand and I I sort of respect it. I mean, I understand it certainly you know um, but yeah.

01:05:24
So these protesters, these, uh that at the Microsoft thing, and then this you see what big tech is doing and how horrible they really are and it makes you kind of question everything you know, it's, it's, it's just horrible, yeah.

01:05:40 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Anyway, I think there should be a conversation and I think companies understand they're dependent on their engineers.

01:05:48 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
And I hope they understand they're dependent on their democracy as well, and their democracy, yeah, and so you know traditionally, corporate governance has not been democratic Right.

01:05:59 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
But well, the balance of power has shifted a little bit.

01:06:03 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Democratic, and that's shifted a lot in the past four years. So there are reasons for that, and I don't actually agree with all of them. But whatever, whatever, our world's changing, so I don't know. We've got to figure this out.

01:06:19 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's tough when things are in flux, because you're kind of throwing the cards up in the air and you don't know how they're going to land. So I recognize that also that's how big search works this healthy, this unhealthy number of generated problems that don't give us time to work on real problems. Well, that's a very good point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So microsoft has hosted. Yeah, so, anyway, microsoft had this ai day that was supposed to be a really big thing.

01:06:46 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So what came out of this is what I would call a metric ton of new AI features for Copilot across the various places that you access Copilot. So the Copilot vision that all of a sudden we're testing in the Insider program everywhere was something they announced was coming to the Copilot app. So Windows and mobile and this is where you can. On Windows it's a little different. It's sort of like click-to-do you click on something and then it goes into Copilot and it tells you more about that thing, whatever it might be. On a phone, that would be a lot more useful because you can point your camera out at the world and see things.

01:07:22
But Copilot, search and Bing which I wrote about separately because they talked about it at the event but then actually released it so you can go see this thing on the web if you want Copilot actions on the web.

01:07:34
So there are actions in Windows and those are the things where copilot in Windows can interact with Windows features and apps and app features and so forth. But actions on the web are what gives this thing this agentic capability where it can interact with web services like Expedia, opentable, vrbo, whatever, and so there's going to be more and more of that stuff coming online all the time. And yeah, I mean, I think the extensibility stuff is really important to all these AI chat bots or whatever we're calling these things now. But if you were to go back over the past six months and look at all of the little AI advances, whether they came out of Gemini or ChatGPT or whatever it is, and then looked at what they announced last week, it's everything that everyone else has ever announced, but with the word co-pilot in front of it. So, like Notebook LLM, which is the Google feature that makes those kind of AI podcasts, is now a feature called co-pilot podcasts. So they're kind of doing what everyone is doing.

01:08:41 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
But it's not using Notebook LLM, it's using no, it's using their own stuff.

01:08:44 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, Well see that. That's another question yeah.

01:08:48 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
What models are they using? Do they reveal that? I mean? No, so, because microsoft has their own right.

01:08:53 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So two things says, coming into the show that I was talking with lauren about this and I said that one of the things I really want to see is whether they talk about that. Are they going to say we're starting to use our own models now or we are using our own models whatever it is? And they did not say that. However, we just mentioned the build session list, right, and if you look through there, you'll see that bringing other models into various co-pilots is a big part of the show that's coming up. So the one I can remember is the Copilot runtime for Windows. You can mix and match or you're going to be I don't, you know it's not out yet, but you're going to be able to mix and match models there. We've seen this in GitHub Copilot already. Right, you can choose now if, using that, I think it defaults to I think it's OpenAI, whatever version, but you could switch to Anthropic and, I think, some other choices as well, and I think that's going to be a thing and that's fine. But I think we've talked about this.

01:09:54
Ideally, this would be orchestrated for you. Any interaction you have with Copilot, wherever it is, whatever the context is, it should do the thing that's best to give you the best results and you don't have to think about that. This is a problem that chat or Sam Altman's brought up for chat. Gpt says you know you click on the model choice and it's like 12 things there. It's like this is confusing. Just do the look at the thing I'm doing and it can be the thing that makes the most sense, like that's where it's going. And for Microsoft, to Leo's question, I think increasingly that will involve them using their own models where it makes sense to do Interesting.

01:10:27 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, yeah, I think they don't want to be dependent on chat. Yeah Well, it's not, you know they're not particularly volatile or anything.

01:10:33 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I mean, I feel like there's yeah, I know whatever you thought of our industry, you could magnify it with those guys. It's crazy, yeah, all with those guys. It's crazy, yeah, all. Right, so there's that, um, co-pilot search and Bing.

01:10:46
Interesting, I mean, it's exactly what it sounds like, but the, the one unique thing they're bringing to the table, which I I sort of appreciated someone who publishes content on the web, in addition to providing you with an AI overview of whatever it is you asked, or the exact answer to some exact question, and then, at the bottom site, citing the sources and all that, which is fine, they're actually hyperlinking each parts of sentences to go to the original source where it got that thing from Right.

01:11:15
So the the idea, the hope is that this will lead to more click throughs, because people will read that summary and it will be linked and they'll say, well, I want to learn more about that thing and they'll go to the original source. So good idea. It's Bing, so it's like whatever, that is, seven, 17%, whatever some small number of the internet searches. But it seems like a step in the right direction, because this is why Google held onto AI for so long generative AI because they saw that this could hurt their advertising revenue model from Google search. They didn't want to screw it up, so these companies have been trying to figure that out.

01:11:54 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
And this is the innovator's dilemma.

01:11:57 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, it seems reasonable. We'll have to see how it works in real life. And then I wrote this. This is just kind of a weird set of coincidences. Um, I wrote this, I wrote this article that I called stupider, which is which is a great, which is a great word. Um, and it's just based on this notion that you hear someone say, writer, say whatever. Uh, ai is making a stupider. You know, there was a headline I riffed on on twitter a month or two ago. That was something like uh, you know, using ai to write software code is going to make developers stupider. And I was like you know, it's been out for 10 seconds. Why don't you give it a give it a minute? You know, like we're rushing to judgment here. Or you know, microsoft sponsored a study that was, in part, said something like we, you know they didn't say it this way, but it ai is going to make people stupider. Yeah, the thing is, you could point to any technology, sure, through history, and you will find the people saying this exact thing.

01:12:58
Right, yeah, the the printing ballpoint pen is going to make us stupid. There was a I misquote this all the time. I don't know the exact uh context of this anymore, but in the show deadwood which was on hbo fantastic show that swear engine guy sitting there on his porch and he's watching something occur on the horizon, drinking his coffee. And this number one guy comes in. He's like what, what's going on down there? And he goes oh, those are, those are polls for the telegraph. It's like what's a telegraph? And he's like well, it's like the mail, but you can respond instantly. And so if he does one of those pregnant pause things, he drinks the coffee and he goes why would anyone want to respond instantly? You need to take the time to, you know, figure out your answer. Right, like that, the way we correspond now made sense to him because he's of that era, right? So the guy's like kind of, kind of like a mobster type, you know. And he, the number one guy, says, uh, do you want me to tear him down?

01:13:54 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
and he's like no, leave him up, it's fine. I love al swearingen. That's a really great conversation.

01:14:00 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
It's just excellent and it's in, and that's the other than his decision to keep it up, because a lot of people would have been like no, tear it down, tear it down. I think you know this is just. I think it's like generational bias. Like the car is maybe the best example for people Like when cars first came out, you had to be a mechanic to own a car. You couldn't own a car, otherwise you had to know how the thing worked.

01:14:26
When that stopped being true, the guys that did know cars, that were mechanics, hated the fact that normal people could now own cars. They're like you don't even know how the engine works. Well, you know, whatever as stick shift, same thing. Right, automatics take off, obviously because they're automatic. Um, people losing their minds now over this notion of, like, self-driving cars and like you know, I'm gonna drive, I like to drive. You know it's like, yeah, you're the reason we have traffic. Idiot, the people like you cause this butterfly effect that if this thing was actually controlled by computers, everything would just be on time. Like I it's, you're of your age, like you, just get stuck. You you think like it's always been this way, but especially with technology, it's been this way for 10 seconds, but you're so, stuck in this rut, you have a hard time, you know, seeing your way out of it.

01:15:15 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I remember being in a university class and talking about futures and we talked about automated driving and one of the students put up his hand and says but if we don't know how to drive, what happens if the computers fail? It's like, ah, we'll all be dead anyway. You know, driving is going to be the least of your concerns.

01:15:33 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
That's a fascinating way to approach that problem. You know, like, but what if? Like, but what if you have a heart attack while you're driving? What's going to happen to the people around you? I mean, yeah, what if In a around you? I mean I, yeah, what if, um, in a weird coincidence? Uh, so tying together the last thing we talked about and the next thing we're going to talk about. The next major topic is at this AI event. Last week, Microsoft showed a demo and you can actually go see it now. I linked to it in the show notes somewhere. They used basically vibe coding to create a quake 2 that runs inside a co-pilot. So this, this is causing people to lose their minds, right?

01:16:15 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
so this is making altair basic.

01:16:17 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Didn't do it so right so, first of all, just because they've gotten charges of theft, microsoft owns this game, right? You understand that, right like id. Microsoft owns this game, right? You understand that, right? Like id Software, which made this game, was purchased by Bethesda, which is now owned by Microsoft.

01:16:32
So was Carmack unhappy the guy who wrote it. No, this is part of the story. So some guy gets on Twitter and this is not. I don't mean to, I'm not. I'm only singling this guy out because Carmack replied to him yes, but this is the complaint to. I'm only singling this guy out because Carmack replied to him yes, and eloquently too, by the way. Oh, of course, the complaint was this is an abomination, right, we're losing developer jobs and you're doing this. And then there's all these people. The way people chime into this is astonishing. I put some on the notes just because these are amazing. So people are kind of responding to this guy the way I am talking about AI in general.

01:17:14
The goal is games, not jobs. Jobs don't inherently deserve to exist. The goal of technology is to cut the number of jobs and increase efficiency. No one cares about your jobs. I mean, people don't care about their jobs. Um, if the goal is jobs, we should just dig dishes with spoons, not tractors, right, it's like it. Which is the point? Like where does this end? You know what you're going to use spoon technology that takes away people's jobs. What about your hands? Why your hands?

01:17:43 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
good enough, princess, get them in the dirt yeah, this is an ai generated level is basically what's going on. Yes, yeah, so here's the thing, the best comment, think about think about video games today.

01:17:55 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Video games today made the biggest video games made by these giant companies hundreds of millions of dollars, the budgets of hollywood movies and, if they are successful, the revenues of hollywood movies are more. I mean video games actually make more money than hollywood this guy says wasn't quake, made by a handful of people, it was very small group it was yeah this will enable that to be the case again.

01:18:18
Right like this is the exchange server job. I always uh thing about the guy's like you mean to tell me the last thing I'm going to do is hand off my exchange install to Microsoft. Yeah, your company is not here so you can serve email. Email is just a tool you use. You sell widgets or whatever your company does. You're not here for email. We've lost track of the point of this stuff.

01:18:44 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, and also, this is not. I mean, creating a quake two level is probably easier than writing a short story or a paragraph of text. It's just okay, you understand it's going to do that stuff too Right.

01:18:58 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So I to me when I, like I have not heard anything about the next call of duty game. I don't know what it is. I know it's going to be more of the same right. Most of the work's already been done. Like, what we need are, I guess, for the single player game, a story, characters, arc, whatever, and then all the assets that go along with that, and then what we need for multiplayer are game types, which we already have, and then levels.

01:19:24 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Levels Right, that's true.

01:19:25 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Level design. We can examine levels, see which are the most popular, literally by usage, and figure out what makes those things good, some sense of balance and whatever. Like one side's not off. No-transcript, ai is going to be really good at that stuff, you know, and I just I'm not saying well, I'm sort of saying I guess at some point, maybe completely AI generated, whatever, but it will happen in stages or whatever, but the idea, the goal here is to make better games and if this can do that and it can, this is smart. And, as Richard said, johnmack's response to this is basically what I said, but more eloquently. I mean, you know, like this is just as the guy you know someone else pointed this out on twitter. He said you're telling this to the guy who came out with game engines that were so much more sophisticated, years ahead of everyone else, and then release them openly so everyone else could copy them. What do you think he's going to say to this? Yeah, of course he's.

01:20:30 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
He thinks this is great you know how many programmers he put out at work by giving away that engine? Are you kidding?

01:20:37 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
right, right, but how many great games came out of the fact that this engine was now available, right or what? Or the source code or whatever it was, or in the beginning it was extensibility, like they would do Doom, and you know, here's the. You can make your own wide files for Doom or whatever. And then in the next version you're like okay, now here's an editor you can use that will help you make these things even more easily. And now we're doing 3D, and here's how you can do it. You know, in 3D for Quake, um, this stuff is astonishing, like it's just um and it's how, and it's how progress has come all along yep, yep, yeah.

01:21:08
So I you know, it was again just a weird coincidence. I hadn't, I didn't see or know anything about this john karmack thing when I wrote it, and then, in the wake of that, I was like, yeah, okay, it's a great example like this is there you go, perfect, right, um, I, I don't know. I we'll see. I'm sure the next Call of Duty will be terrible, but I'm also sure that as we go forward, they could be made better.

01:21:34 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Humans can make it terrible just as well as AI.

01:21:37 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I think they excel at making it terrible. So maybe someone at Activision will just talk to chat GPT and say, hey, what have we been doing wrong? And they were like you don't have enough time, so let me just highlight the top 100, you know, and whatever, and go, you know, just fix this stuff, because like fixing would be good.

01:21:56 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Right, that seems like a good thing here's what would be good.

01:21:58 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
This is. This is my college experience. I play, you know, two. Well, as many as five times a week, maybe, let's say two to five times a week. Uh, I would say on average about once a week. I'm like, all right, I got a couple hours to kill, I got nothing to do. I'm gonna do this thing open a laptop, run the game. It's like, please wait, stalling 132 megabyte or 132 gigabyte, update what? And I, oh god, could you just do this while you're asleep, why? You know like, and then I can't, I don't, it takes two hours to update the game, you know, yeah, that's a little, that's a little yeah, maybe ai could do that too.

01:22:39 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah is there anything I can't do? I don't know. I was reading carmax reply, I think right on. You know this is what tools do they right Universally, he said? He says will programmers be around in the future?

01:22:54 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I don't know, there are fewer farmers than ever because of farm implements, farm tools, but yeah that's a great example too, like the way you make farming ever more efficient, and, unfortunately, the end game is factory farms and seeds that have a patent associated with them, that blow into people's farms, and then they get sued by these giant companies. So, like, everything can be made terrible, but the aim is to make it better does it?

01:23:21 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
you know, I'll have to ask cory this. Does it always have to end in shitification?

01:23:26 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
oh, that's. I'm going to talk to this just to a minor degree. The answer, I believe, is no, but the answer real world is almost always yes. Yeah, it doesn't have to, but I feel like it it often does it, pretty much does. Yeah, the uh exception proves the rule we need that Star Trek future where there's no money and no companies.

01:23:47 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Essentially right and that then we can all just make Call of Duty levels. Yeah.

01:23:54 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I want to make the Call of Duty level. I want to play exactly.

01:23:57 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's not hard to want to be. Imagine a world where uh machines write music and you know it's a romance novels as well as humans this is.

01:24:11 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I'll take it a step further. We are two seconds away from those things winning awards, right, and five seconds away from that being almost the only way that those things happen. Not really right, I mean not really. People will always create right, but, uh, you know, in, you know, I'm such a smart ass that in the front matter to my most recent book, it literally says so stupid, no, I was used or harmed in the creation of this book. Oh, that's not going to age. Well, no, I've still not. Really, I've not actually used AI for the book, but that's not the point I should. Did you use Grammarly? Yeah, yeah, well, I used language still fair enough. Yeah, but they didn't call it AI at the time Right?

01:25:04 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
No, no, that's part of the problem is what is ai?

01:25:07 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
maybe, yeah, maybe what I meant was generative. Yeah, you didn't use general, I didn't use it for any anything ever related to writing, like the creation of words or whatever, or the rewriting of words or anything like that. But but you know what? That's really short-sighted on my part, because, um, that, could you know, could be better.

01:25:25 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Imagine putting your time into more valuable things, because automation can take care of the least valuable thing exactly right now, though, of course, you have to put a lot of time into ai and using it fruitfully almost as much as you would put into actually doing the work.

01:25:39 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So, yeah, but I I hopefully. The aim here is that you're beginning the automation process. Yeah, it's time well invested, yeah.

01:25:49 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, learning to play the piano, learning to play. Ai but, in the end you can make music. Oh boy, yeah, okay. All I can make right now is lavender blue, dilly, dilly, but I'm getting better. I just learned Jeez geez. That's tough, it's a, it's a long haul.

01:26:13 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
That's like basic language with the line numbers you know it's really similar.

01:26:17 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Learning to play the piano is really similar learning to read. I feel like. I feel like I am at a kindergarten level, you know, learning to read um, but it's kind of fun at my age just to learn something brand new. I applaud you, leo. I think that's awesome I am.

01:26:33 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
It's just really fun. You know, bill burr is the comedian.

01:26:36 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I love bill so this is probably a fine commentator, a commentator on our yeah, no, he's incredible.

01:26:42 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So he five, seven years ago whatever he made that you know he started learning to play the drums. So he plays in some kind of a band and he's playing the drums. So some talk show host complimented him. He says, yeah, he goes. What the world was looking for was for a middle-aged white guy to learn an instrument. But fair enough, anything like that. It could be coding, writing, painting.

01:27:08 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I'm learning coding too. I'm learning coding too. I'm learning.

01:27:10 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
This is really great this is super healthy for the, for your brain.

01:27:13 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I don't want to ever get to the point where I have nothing to learn. That's awful thought, yeah, well, and it's the yeah, you know what is aging, but losing the desire to learn, yeah, yeah, that's one thing I have noticed, richard. Uh, you, neither you guys are anywhere near this. But as you get, one gets older, one loses one's motivation. I think back, we're. You know, I'm kind of doing this now because sunday is our 20th anniversary. Twit, right, and um, I don't think, 20 years later I would. I could start this again, right, that's exactly. But is that more to do with the wisdom of knowing just how much work you're committing yourself? Right?

01:27:49 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
well, having done that differently.

01:27:51 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, we do these things not because we thought they were hard, but we thought they, you know, we thought they would be easy, right, that's exactly right.

01:27:59 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, not because they're hard, but because we thought they would be easier. Yeah, exactly yeah but I also.

01:28:03 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's a, it's a lack.

01:28:04 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I just don't care anymore it's like motivation, so I I lost my care anymore.

01:28:07 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's like the motivation is shot. I lost my mojo.

01:28:09 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
You misunderstood me, but I had this conversation recently with my wife and I compared this to when your kids become teenagers and they become unbearable. For about four or five years, oh yeah, and by the time they have to go off to college, or in the olden days they would go off and just go off. But now, whatever they're leaving, you're both ready for the separation.

01:28:33 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Oh gosh, you need this. This is a life phase. It's important. Yeah, they're pushing you away, at the same time, you are pushing them even harder better get out.

01:28:38 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So I feel like what you just described and I this is how I said the same thing. I said I think this is a natural phase you just, at some point you're like you're like I'm done, I don't care, I just don't care. You know I'm done with it. This would have involved me when I was 35, forever. And now I'm like what time is it? Yeah, I think I'm done.

01:28:58 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I don't care, can I watch TV now?

01:29:01 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
She's like what are you?

01:29:01 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Do we have Jell-O for dessert?

01:29:03 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
a grave, I'm like yeah, read a book like what?

01:29:05 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
do you know? Just I don't know. I think that's true, and you're young. I think it's very natural but I think it is and it's what I've noticed. It's just a stage of life yeah, um, and it's.

01:29:15 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I don't think it's a certain age necessarily, but different people have different motivation, different things, and I, uh, you know we're in this industry, that we're in well, you live in the land of manana, let's's fix it. By the way, these are the hardest working people on earth.

01:29:28 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I don't know who started that nonsense. That's the joke, isn't?

01:29:30 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
it. That is the least accurate description of a people.

01:29:32 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
When they take a break, it's because they've done more that day than you could have done in a month.

01:29:36 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I would love to find out that they were the ones who propagated this myth. Yeah, yeah, that would give me the greatest pleasure of all time.

01:29:44 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Tell those gringos we don't care these people get up.

01:29:47 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
We comment on this all day long. So if you walk up and down the street, we're on all these restaurants we love. We know all the people. We will come home. We will go out early in the morning just walking, whatever. We'll come back late at night after having gone out to eat and gone out to the bar. We know everybody and there's a sandwich shop. I just use one example. These guys, same people. They're always there. They are there from eight o'clock in the morning until 10 to 11 o'clock at night. Same people say every day doing the same thing repeat, rinse, wash, repeat fairly cheerful about it.

01:30:18
They don't, they are delightful, yeah, and I I have, and the sandwiches are just one. They're just one little store they are great, but um, but wonderful human beings.

01:30:28
I'm so desperate, one of a million of these things people with their little trash carts or their taco stands, rolling out in the morning, tearing them down at night. Every day, repeat, repeat, repeat. You've never seen people work as hard as you. They don't. I don't think anyone on earth works as hard as they love. That that's incredible. Okay, I don't know why we're talking about that but okay, I'm noticing that I've lost my mojo.

01:30:56 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Oh, somebody said in the discord I should just uh twitch, that's truly. Oh, I've been. I mean testosterone. Yes, there's one thing to look at your windows weekly, but I've been on a couple other shows with you. You're kind of up to stuff. Yeah, I'm up to stuff, I guess that's a good way to put it. No, it's important to stay you're arguing with me and jeff jarvis at the same time takes a lot of nerve, man. Well, wait a wait, a later where, uh, it's cory doctor, oh boy kidding I.

01:31:26 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I said, the good thing about je Jeff Jarvis is that I disagree with him pretty much in mass Jeff's great.

01:31:32 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I love Jeff, I love him. You and I have the same relationship. It's like brothers where we tussle, but we respect each other and we have a great time doing it. Oh my.

01:31:41 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
God, are you kidding me? Yes, and he. I would hate to disagree with him because I would immediately doubt myself. Yes, exactly, you know what I mean. Like if he challenged me on anything.

01:31:53 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
By the way, I feel the same way about richard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know richard, uh, you know, I just know he's gonna say well, as a matter of fact, leo right, the first guy who got me?

01:32:05 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
the guy who got me into writing and and I was, I was going to become a software developer. So we wrote, we were writing a book about visual basic 3, but the guy was a genius and at back then you would print out everything. And he was sitting, we sat down, we didn't have laptops, it was 1994 or something. I'm sitting across from at the kitchen table and he's going through the papers and he's, and then you see him, his finger stops and he goes sure about this and I'm like I was, you know, like not anymore, I'm not and then he got up and he went into the other room. He's like he goes, nope, and he comes back and he's like he's like this is all right, love it.

01:32:44 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Okay, we all need that. We all need that person you need that person.

01:32:47 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, yes, everyone does, everyone does yeah, ai.

01:32:52
Recaps for book series yeah, just two two small things, just, uh, and this is uh. It's funny because this inspired part of that stupider post I wrote, which was um, when you watch a show on netflix, right? So, for example, uh, this month the show you is going to come back on netflix, right? So, for example, uh, this month the show you is going to come back on netflix is the show my wife and I really like. Like a lot of these long form series, um, the first season or two is really good, and it kind of goes downhill a little bit after that. Yeah, I don't remember almost anything about the previous season but what they do is they.

01:33:24
They show you that-.

01:33:25 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
So previously in this book series-.

01:33:28 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, so they're doing this on Kindle. I love this idea and they're doing it with AI, and this is not why you buy a Kindle. It's not the marquee feature where everyone's like, oh my God, this is it. It's a little thing, but that's the point. You see this and you're like, yes, I need this. If anyone is still reading a book, god love you. And if you can pay attention across a long book, if you can pay attention across a series of books. Let me tell you something you're a unicorn, god love you, but most of us need this. How do?

01:34:03 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
you turn this on?

01:34:03 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Where does this it appears automatically. You have to get the latest software right now. It's only on the kindle device. It's coming to ios kindle app soon and okay, I haven't said anything about that beyond there. But um, it will come, you know, come everywhere at some point. But um, yeah, it will just be made available if it's there for that, if it detects it's a book series.

01:34:23
You know, in kindle I think this is by default book series, just like magazines Well, they don't really do magazines anymore but what else? Like comic book series like this, where it's one icon, it's like a folder, essentially, and you go in there and then you see the constituent parts of it. There's a recap option in there that should just appear. I haven't seen it, but personally. And then, just real quick, github Copilot was updated, because it's updated every 10 seconds. The big thing to me here is that this thing that was in preview is now available generally in. I think it's Visual Studio Code only right now, but it will do that project level code review, the thing I've been using with Cursor. So if you want to get that type of thing, you're using github copilot. There it is so cool, nice, okay, okay all right.

01:35:16 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, that brings us uh right briskly along to, I believe, the xbox segment. Before we get to that, though, I would like to say that you, dear viewer and listener, you, brilliant person, you, you have tuned in windows weekly uh with paul thurott from thurottcom, and, of course, his books are at leanpubcom, completely written by humans, with no ai intervention, and asterix asterix see footnote for disclaimers. It's probably going to change. Terms and conditions apply. And Mr Richard Campbell of Run as Radio and NET Rocks, it's great to have you both on, great to have you watching.

01:35:57
If you want to watch the show live, we do it on Wednesdays at 11 am Pacific, that's 2 pm Eastern, 1800 UTC, and the streams are multivariate. There is uh discord, of course, for our club members, but we've also got youtube, twitch, tiktok for as long as it lasts xcom, uh kick, so we want to put all the nazis things together. Uh, facebook oh wait, a minute, let's add that one and linkedin there's a microsoft property anyway. Eight different places you can watch. You pick the one you want uh, but you don't have to watch live. The show is also available uh as a podcast, as you probably know. You can download it from paul's site or my site twittv slash ww for windows weekly. Uh, there is, if you go to that page, a link to the YouTube channel for the video. That's nice for sharing clips, little things that you want to tell friends about, great way to spread the word about our show. And of course, it is a podcast, so you can just use any podcast client subscribe.

01:36:58
If you would do us a favor, though, leave a review. They turns out. Those make a big difference in our audience and our even advertisers pay attention to them. Five stars preferred. Okay, you can knock us down a star if you feel like it, but it would really help, if you like the show, to leave us a five-star review and your favorite podcast client, and thank you in advance once again. If you're just tuning in, uh, we have restored yearly club twit memberships, so if you are on a monthly membership and if you're a member, you are, go to your membership, your subscription page and turn on yearly if you want to make it once a year instead of 12 times a year. Back we go to the show and the world-renowned Xbox segment. Oh boy, it's all yours, pauly. Time to pad this sucker out. It's a big bar.

01:37:50 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, so Microsoft has been doing an annual Xbox Games Showcase each year since E3 bit the dust Actually, since before that, I think so they're doing another one this year. It'll be on Sunday, june 8th, and then they're going to do kind of what they're calling a deep dive into a game called the elder worlds 2, which is the next game from obsidian entertainment, which is like a studio that made avowed that game that just came out recently. Um, the focus here is on games that they believe are going to ship soon. So, for example, fable is being rebooted, but that was delayed to 2026. Probably not going to be a part of this Fun title, though, yeah, and the, you know, like Call of Duty and like End of Year. Probably not going to see any of that stuff, but they have talked about a few games that are potentially, you know, could be in here. New Gears of War game uh, prequel, uh, perfect dark remake, uh, state of decay 3, kind of reading like hollywood, it's all remakes and, yeah, sequels. That's the normal, uh, but that's the world. Yeah, um, so we'll see, but that's it's usually. It's usually pretty good.

01:39:02
Um, this is not the event, uh, that leo and I watched, uh, although, well, maybe it was. It was, I feel like this was in August this particular year, but there was a year we did the live coverage of the Microsoft game thing and it was the new halo at the time and it was looking like garbage time and it was terrible. And we were like those graphics are going to get better, right. I thought I thought they were going to pull a Wizard of Oz things where, you know, wizard of Oz goes from black to white to color. I thought they were going to go from like 16-bit graphics to like the real thing. They're like see how much better it is. And it never happened. It was like, oh, and then they delayed it. So, anyway, they're trying not to do that anymore. So we'll see. That should be pretty good. Microsoft Edge Game Assist is actually something I'm trying to use and I can't get it to work on the computers that I'm playing games on.

01:39:50 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
What's it supposed to do for you?

01:39:52 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, so what you're supposed to do is go into Microsoft Edge, the browser, enable it, and then you can go into the game bar so you can hit, like Windows key plus G or, if you have an Xbox control, the white button, the light button, and it comes up and then you can add it. It's a widget, and the light button and it comes up, and then you can add it. It's a widget, and if you've ever used Game Bar, you know there's like a main bar and then the widgets are these separate little floating windows. So the one I use most frequently is the performance one and you can turn everything off except for frames per second. Pin it so it's always on the screen, and then for games where you can't see the frames per second, this shows you the frames per second right, so it's pretty useful. What this thing is is a mini version of the browser that you can also pin to be on screen, so it can kind of be on the side next to the game you're playing, and it will, because I don't know the figure, but some huge percentage of people who play games on pcs will pause the game, go to either a different device or just switch to a browser type in how do I get past this thing on level two or whatever, and Google it or whatever to figure out the game. So you can do that stuff. But they also have enhanced it to know about specific games. So there is a website you can go to to see what all the games are.

01:41:05
But in the most recent update they added support for assassin's creed, shadows and the idea and other games I'm sorry, world of warcraft, genshin, um, impact, etc. Is a few others. But the idea is that you're in the game at a particular point and if you bring this thing up, it will know where you are in the game and then say you need help. You know it will just proactively try to help you, um, but there's a big list of games, you know call of duty, black ops 6 is one of them, which is why I was like, okay, let me, let me see what this thing can do. And I can't get it right. I haven't got it to work. But the latest indiana jones game, the new one, is in there minecraft, uh, overwatch 2, stalker 2, heart of chernobyl that new game from last year is one of the games. It's probably about 25, 30. But it doesn't have to be enhanced, it'll still work.

01:41:50
So they've been expanding this thing. It will support some extensions now, including, like sidebar apps, like edge sidebar apps that will work in there automatically. There's some new tab work they've done to make it work more like the Razzle actually, um, just you know, kind of improving it. So there's a big update to this that just went out. Um, you know, kind of interesting, I want to try this. Like I just haven't done this, um, I haven't done it yet, but someday, and then maybe we'll come to the xbox. Right, they taught they showed off something called uh, I think it was just called gaming co-pilot or something like a that Copilot for Gaming. But at some point this will definitely come to the console as well, in whatever form. Right Last week we talked about some of the new games coming to Game Pass across PC, console and cloud for the first half of April. Since then they announced GTA V is coming back to the Game Pass library starting next week, in about one week from yesterday, I guess and is it a refresh version or is or it's.

01:42:53
It is on PC, so the the version going Xbox is the one we had from before the one going to PC. This is the first time it's been on PC Game Pass and it's actually an enhanced version of the game that they released, just if you're on the game.

01:43:08 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yep, man, I know, and this is the year's gta 6 is supposed to show up and they're still milking gta 5.

01:43:15 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
hey, you got to love something like this, is that? This is like you know yeah, exactly like your music catalog just keeps going, you know, yeah, this is the second best-selling game of all time 210 million copies sold, uh, since 2013 what sold more than that?

01:43:30 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I thought that was number one, I thought it was minecraft. What's the best possible.

01:43:34 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, yeah, I think it might be minecraft minecraft yeah, game of all.

01:43:41 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Let's see what else could it be sieve maybe no, it's minecraft it's got to be minecraft 350 million you know the everybody in hollywood was shocked that the minecraft movie yeah, because you've seen the trailer.

01:43:54 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
It looks ridiculous it probably is ridiculous.

01:43:57 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It looks terrible. But what they underestimated was how much people of a certain age love minecraft, and it turns out the same people who go to movies. Still, yeah, and almost generational. Now, right, it's generational.

01:44:10 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, I I just think it looks terrible like I don't know.

01:44:14 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Of course it does, it's a video game movie, it probably is terrible. But if you love minecraft. You're gonna see it it's the rock.

01:44:21 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
The rock was in a movie version of doom right and there's a scene in the game, yeah, where the he, you do a first person view, where you're looking down like you do in a game, and it was ridiculous. But it was like okay, like you know you're, you're at least respecting the original or whatever it's like it was like.

01:44:39 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
But this is the guy I think it's also running around a generation that grew up on jumanji, so they like jack black. I think jason momoa is a suitable might actually be something wrong with you.

01:44:51 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I I'm, you know, like you might actually want to see a doctor you'll probably go with you to the movie.

01:44:57 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Anyway, I'm not going to go to the movie because I am of a different generation, but I will sit in my leather lounger and watch it at home. It'll be on an airplane. It's a good airplane movie, yeah what was that?

01:45:08 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
there was a video game movie that came out last year.

01:45:10 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It was a bomb borderlands yeah so my wife I did watch an airplane yeah, I watched it.

01:45:15 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Um, I I thought it was fine and, by the way, jack black was in that too. Actually he was the voice of the little robot, right, but um it, it was, uh, it was really dumped on, but but I thought it was okay. And then there was, of course, the TV show that was on Amazon for Fallout, which was amazing.

01:45:34 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Fallout was fantastic and going to get another season, I know I can't wait.

01:45:38 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I thought that was so well done. They did a great job of it. Yep, fantastic. So it can be done.

01:45:42 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
This is how generations diverge.

01:45:46 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
It's generational bias. That's what I was talking about earlier. You kids, your stupid Minecraft movie. No one's going to watch that, correct?

01:45:53 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
My 21-year-old cannot wait. He's not going to go see it in the theater, though, but he is very excited.

01:45:58 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Well then, he can wait.

01:45:59 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Leo, the thing with the Minecraft movie will be how many people go to it more than once. Oh a lot regions. Everybody's gonna go. Once it was a very expensive movie. It was hundreds of millions of dollars, but it's already grossed more than half a billion all they needed was a commodore 64 to render this thing. What are they doing? Best-selling game, best-selling movie there you go which begs the question where's the gta 5 movie?

01:46:26 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
actually, that'd be, you know, I would go see that yeah I might go see that that's got to be in it's got to be in development somewhere.

01:46:35 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Sure it is sure it is uh. You want to, you want to uh. Is that it? Are we not a couple of, a couple of?

01:46:43 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
switch. Things to mention, um, one is that it looks like the chipset that's in the switch too is pretty good. Like nvidia is involved with the graphics, I would order one yeah but I can't plugged in. I know um it will do. Uh, it has dedicated uh cores for graphics, uh tensor cores for ray tracing.

01:47:03 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Wow, it also supports deep learning, super sampling, uh dls so that's how it does 4k, because it does have 4k output on hdmi.

01:47:12 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
That's fine you know 120, 120 frames per second and 1080p yeah it's good. You know they were kicking it with the other one. I mean, this one's gonna. You know, this one's gonna be great, except that it's never expensive. Uh, yeah, it's too expensive and it's gonna be more expensive. Now they're delaying it because of this tariff stuff. I don't know if you heard this. It's been in the news a lot.

01:47:32 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Apparently, maybe not now, though Maybe they knew, because I think the tariffs against Japan have been dropped to 10%, so yeah, we'll see.

01:47:54
This is the feel of something that will change every single day, because, yeah, you know, every hour, goodness knows by the time we finish. Yeah, so we'll see. We'll see tough time to buy the gear, though this must be an error. What's that? Oh yeah, the switch v2. It's not the switch v2, it's a switch two, because walmart's selling a switch v2 but no, that's jeez, that's confusing. That's the oled version of the switch. Oh so it's a rev two of the switch one. Yeah, oh boy, so careful everybody.

01:48:15
This is the kind of thing that bites me. You know, hey, merry christmas, I bought you the new switch dad, it's the v2. Yeah, no, it's not what I wanted. Man guys, you gotta learn how to shop for kids, I do not, you know if you just bring them the 24 port switch, then they'll be happier I bought you a switch it's poe.

01:48:38 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
The same day I was in best buy in the mid 1990s and I wanted to buy a cd but I couldn't think of the name of the band. So back then they had these giant aisles full of CDs and people that would just work there. You know, that's the world. So I was like, hey, I'm looking for these guys, can I help you find something? I said, yeah, I'm looking for this band, but it's like collective love, collective something. He goes, he kind of looked at me like collective soul. I'm like maybe that was the band, it was great, but whatever jamiroquai. But I I'm checking out and there's a grandmother in front of me paying at the register and she says I need a present for a you know whatever age girl. Do you think this would be better? This or whatever the choices were? She's asking the guy at the counter and I was like please get her a gift certificate. I was like, do not do that, don't let her, buy it yeah.

01:49:27 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
So uh this is just in from the Nintendo page. Yeah, switch to pre-order six, five or no, that's just what I said.

01:49:35 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
They were going to deliver it late, wasn't it April? No, what was the original date?

01:49:39 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Or is that May or June?

01:49:40 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
May six or June the Japanese people?

01:49:47 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I don't know. It's got the big American flag on the site.

01:49:50 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I don't know how to buy, because I do really I, I do want it. This thing is going to look like a EULA.

01:49:59 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Register your interest, yep and then what Nintendo's doing here, right, is to stop them from being squatted. Yeah, to use your right account to go on, that's right. You don't want disappointed young fans, you know, losing their's, right you?

01:50:06 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
don't want disappointed young fans, you know, losing their minds because you don't want this thing, yeah, nobody wants disappointed smart fans.

01:50:14 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
So get a grandma, get a gift certificate. Kevin says june 5th is the ship date, which is unchanged. The pre-order date is the problem. All right, okay, all right, okay. You're watching and you show great taste by doing so. Windows weekly. That's paul thorat, that's richard campbell and, ladies, gentlemen, we'll continue the show with the back of the book. Yeah, mr paul thorat.

01:50:42 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So, leo, last week you brought up programmers at work. You had the book, you, you had the original Microsoft Press version.

01:50:47 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, I love it the original.

01:50:48 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
That was the first edition of that. Yeah, Wow, there was a later edition it went to a different publisher. Someone reached out to me on Twitter and said hey, listen to Windows Weekly, looked up this book and then found the website from the woman who wrote it, and she has now. These are not like from two days ago, they're from five, six years ago, whatever. But she has republished the interviews and, in some cases, expanded on them.

01:51:15
Oh, that's worth getting yeah, I mentioned it's on the internet archive the book is yes, but if you go to her website, um, it hasn't been. I'm sorry it hasn't been updated in four years, but it has. The interviews haven't been updated in 12 years, but these it has. The interviews haven't been updated in 12 years, but these are all from the eighties. It doesn't matter. The point is these interviews are now on her website. Oh, that's right, you can actually go find these.

01:51:37 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's so worth reading. Yep, is it suzulamerscom? What's the website it's?

01:51:43 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
programmersatworkwordpresscom. Oh boy, yeah. And then there's a sidebar that has the links and it has the years and whatever, but you, know she went.

01:51:55 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, this is just yeah, really, thank you. A unnamed Twitter user Well, his name is well code is the K O D E. Mr.

01:52:05 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Anderson the first, so none of those are his real name, I would imagine. But yeah, thank you for that, really cool.

01:52:13 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, it's really. It's really a great book and it is unfortunately out of print, but you can go to the website and get the what I had was a later edition.

01:52:25 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
It had a different cover and it wasn't microsoft press.

01:52:28 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
By that point it had moved to some other company well, there's a kind of a follow-up called coders at work yeah, no, no, it was no, it's programs at work.

01:52:36 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I looked this thing up after the show because I was really curious about this myself and there were two versions of it, but one from, I want to say, 85 86, and then one from 88 89. Okay, I think it was just a republish. You know it wasn't updated. Oh well, I don't think it was updated, but this is great she is.

01:52:52 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I mean, this is an older blog, the last post is four years ago but, um, there are updates on all of the people she interviewed and so forth. This is. This is really. It was a great to me. You know we've talked before about those kind of seminal books, like Pascal Zachary's Showstoppers, like Stephen Levy's Hackers, like Tracy Kidder's Soul of a New Machine. These are books that if you want to understand how we got here, they're must reads right, like Sandra. Bullock's the Net.

01:53:24 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
You know, I think these are all the net. You know, I think these are all who could ever forget. I mean, if we're gonna go back to basics, sneakers, let's not forget, let's.

01:53:35 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's like the cough, the, the files coughing on the floppy and it's like the tension I can't take the no, but we've talked about this before you, about these great, these great books, and I know you like love showstoppers. Oh yeah, um, which is about.

01:53:50 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I reread that every couple years, like I just reread it, reread it, reread it and I don't know for me.

01:53:56 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
They inform my understanding of what's going on, how the industry works, who these people are. It makes it makes me better at covering these stories, and programmers at work was this was the golden era too.

01:54:08 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
There were so many books like between about that time frame, maybe the mid nineties, that were all about the start of the industry, the start of the IBM PC, the start of Apple, the start of Microsoft. You know, it was just great. And then, you know, when Microsoft became dominant, it was all like who's going to stop Bill Gates? There were a million of these things, you know, barbarians at the gates, et cetera. And then, thank God, antitrust happened, because then we had five years of that. You know, yeah.

01:54:32 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's kind of really been downhill since 2000.

01:54:36 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
You can see the slope.

01:54:38 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
But this last century was great. The 20th century was really great for this stuff.

01:54:49 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
That is maybe the oldest person thing you've ever said. I, the 20th century was okay, I don't know about this one, it's new century.

01:54:53 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
I don't, I don't understand it.

01:54:55 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I question it I don't get it, can you?

01:54:56 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
believe we're a quarter of the way into the 21st century. Yeah, yes or no. Yeah, 21st, that's amazing. I still like the old one better. You know what we didn't understand, that I wish we did. We were living in a golden age. We were living in a remarkable time.

01:55:13 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Flush toilets.

01:55:14 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Maybe the Matrix was right 1999 was the year.

01:55:19 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Sometimes I have hot water in the shower here. It's fantastic. I don't know it's not overrated.

01:55:27 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Oh, so that was your. I guess that was your pick or your tip. Okay.

01:55:32 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
A couple of picks I guess it wasn't a pick Speaking of the 20th century.

01:55:39 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Again the best TV too. Yeah, I know, yeah, eventually yeah.

01:55:43 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So Apple Music is now available with dolby atmos supported windows right. So since it came out in that kind of new, you know it's like a modern app. Now I think microsoft helped them create it same thing with apple tv. It has supported lossless music but not dolby atmos, but now it does, and so I was actually testing it out the other day.

01:56:01 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
It's nice I don't think about dolby atmos for home play, I think about that in movie theaters. But okay, oh yeah, a lot of systems now have Atmos. I have Atmos at home. The problem is it's not real Atmos, unless you bounce it off the ceiling, of course.

01:56:16 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I mean headphones can do a decent job, depending on the headphone.

01:56:19 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Apple.

01:56:20 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Spatial is basically Dolby Atmos, yeah, even a computer. If you have like four speakers, they can do. You know, at worst what you're getting is kind of like a nice stereo separation, right, if you're lucky, you'll get that feel of like, uh, you can almost see the. You know the. Each instrument is in its own place, if that makes sense in space. Um, even with speakers, it's pretty good, you know, so it's good. Um, I'll try to do this quickly.

01:56:45
I this, I added this is like a weird little addendum, but, but I wrote an article today that sort of about the tech product services, whatever it is, that are not insuredified, right, and not as like a list. I mean, I don't mean like these are all awesome, I don't mean like that, but it's interesting how the industry has been disrupted over the years. And if you think about, like I went back and looked this crazy, like in 2006, google bought a company that made something called rightly, which is one of the first web word processors, it looks ludicrous. I uh today and they turned it into google docs. Wow, they developed a spreadsheet program in-house. They put them together it. They had different names over the years, but now of course, this is, or Google Docs, whatever we call these things.

01:57:31
There was this shining moment not shining, but for me it was kind of a weird moment, where I'm going to call it 2005 to 2010, 12, where Google just set out to do everything. Did Microsoft do something let's do that, and they would make. They made their version, they did their office productivity suite, they did this, you know, they did everything right and this is what that came out of, and it forced Microsoft to go from traditional office suite running on Windows or Mac to having versions on the web Eventually, to having versions on mobile, to having office. Well, bpos which, by the way, came out, announced that same year and it became office 365 and then now microsoft 365. Right, um, you know, we can kind of credit google with lighting a little fire into them, because this was like steven sanofsky had wanted to do a web-based version of these office apps for years and kept getting shot down because this is going to kill their paid office business. What are you talking about?

01:58:28 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
We don't want to put this on the way and then he was over on the window side doing the same thing. It was he switched roles. Yep, they actually had it written. They sat on the shelf for two years. They were done in 2011. They didn't ship till 2013 and only after win eight failed.

01:58:41 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Sometimes you need yeah you need that push right. Yeah, in, it's interesting because this is happening to google now. Right, we've always had these alternatives. You know, back in the day, you could have any number of open source office suites, many of which still are around, like libra office or open office or whatever. Um, I used oh god, I'm gonna forget the name of it, doesn't matter I used to use this kind of third-party word processor because it was lighter, smaller, whatever. It was pretty good, whatever.

01:59:09
But I feel like we're suddenly swimming in all these uh apps and services that you can use, either ad hoc, right, like things like notion, uh, markdown editors, uh, proton pass, you know, proton has mail and calendar and whatever else. Um, or you, so you can kind of mix and match, like Slack you could have. Like Google, I'm going to use Google workspace, but I'm going to use Slack, you know as well. Right, kind of, you know, like pieces of a puzzle, like obviously bigger businesses go after, like the big monolithic thing, microsoft, that gives you everything, you get everything and that's you know good, to some degree, whatever. But I do feel like an AI is accelerating this, because now we're getting these capabilities on even free things, right, like Grammarly or a language tool or whatever, and it's interesting. But in the same way that Google Docs slash Workspace came along and kind of prodded Microsoft back in 2006, I feel like Notion and to a lesser degree, but maybe Proton are also doing this now to Google, right that they come up from the bottom, their Notion I don't know why Notion hasn't given me a bill. I use Notion so much. I don't use Notion Calendar or Mail, but they do have these standalone apps if you want them. I believe at least Calendar also integrates directly into the Notion main app. But but between those things they have the start of a really nice.

02:00:33
We used to be, yeah, um, proton, like I said, mail, calendar, but also drive with an online word processor, just like google docs, and they have all their other stuff, right, I mean, maybe there's some combination of these two things or maybe one of these two things. I I don't. You know it's whatever, but we've kind of gotten to an interesting point and everything I just mentioned Notion, typora, proton, whatever. They're not crap Like they're, they're actually. You know, they're often free or can be, depending on how you do it. They're actually. You know, they're often free or can be, depending on how you do it. Um, they're not. You know, they're not like these ad delivering things. That not yet. Yeah, right, that's the thing. That's why that, that's why I qualified what I said earlier, uh, leo asked, is it?

02:01:19 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
at some point the investors say when are we going to get paid? Yeah, and then the certification begins well, okay.

02:01:27 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
So in the case of Notion, for example, I talked to my wife about this, because she uses this all the time as well. I keep waiting for them to come down and say he's been kind of using the hell out of this thing. I'm thinking I don't know. Five bucks a month, something you know like, which honestly would be reasonable Yep, Perfectly reasonable, and that will happen eventually. I pay for it, you don't pay for it.

02:01:48 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Uh, perfectly reasonable. Um, and that will happen eventually. For it you don't pay for it.

02:01:49 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
No, I don't, I've never had to, you don't have to, I guess. Yeah, I just showed you a database on the web.

02:01:52 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
No, that's pretty impressive I don't even understand what.

02:01:55 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
What are you doing? Anyway that, like richard said, this will change. There's no doubt about it. The question is how much it changes, and you know you have a.

02:02:01 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, you respond to the pressures. There is a notion, uh, watermark on it. Maybe you wouldn't have that, if you right.

02:02:09 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
I mean, I don't know, there's if you go something you get yeah, if you look at proton, the company, they did some change in uh, their corporate architecture at some point last year. I think it was where they will persist and exist forever. It will be open source. It will uh, they do charge, but it's they try they charge to pay the cost and pay employees and things like that. Like they're not, it's not a for-profit company, um, privacy focused. There's something going on there that I think is really special, it's worth looking at and I, where proton falls short and in kind of the notion space, maybe, um, I think there are two great tastes that go together here. So I'm saying, yeah, you know, it's something to think about. Um for sure, and I think all this ai advance that's happening now over the past couple years, um, which feels like the past 48 years, is gonna help make that happen. Right, I think this is another era of uh disruption.

02:03:06 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
So isn't that interesting. Yeah, I think I think so. I hope so, hope you're right. Uh, you know what this brings us to. I do mr richard campbell's well, hello run is dot net radio rocks. This is run as.

02:03:23
Yeah, and this particular show is talking about security co-pilot, which which I've visited before and talking about. You know, as these things started to mature, security co-pilot was one of the very first co-pilots announced and it was the one where I looked at him and went you guys are out of your minds, come on, that is such a huge topic. On the other hand, from a persona perspective, thinking about the average sysadmin, especially in the SMB world, you don't have a full-time security person. You maybe put the tinfoil hat on once a month, if you're lucky, maybe once a quarter, and so the idea that there might be a tool that would help you prioritize the most important security issues for your organization at the time. Still, how is this even possible?

02:04:05
And now we're seeing in Security Copilot what's actually going on, which is that it is an integration point for various security-related data sets, and this particular show, the one I did with Ari Shore, who is part of the Entra team, showed this, because the Entra team has now added an integration to Security Co-Pilot specifically for evaluatin g the authentication security of internal applications. This is awesome because if you think about any mid-sized business or even a larger one, there can easily be a hundred internal or a thousand internal apps. So answer the question are they all using the current generation authentication? Which ones aren't? And the fact is, this is a tool that would lead you exactly to that. Here are the apps who do not have good authentication security in place, and so you can basically make a checklist of the worst problems in front of you right now that can get remedied the quickest, and so doing some triage around all that.

02:05:07
So, bit by bit, I keep going back to the learn page on security co-pilot and seeing the integration list is getting longer, not just different Microsoft teams, but also third party integrations now as well. So there's more shows here for me to tap into. But it's starting to manifest this vision of that, exactly that persona the part-time security person not knowing what to work on next and having a tool to help them prioritize that list and get working on fixing them. But arguably, in some cases and Ari talks about this there's some of them where you can literally hit the button that says fix it for me, enforce that security requirement, require TLS 1.2, like. Those kinds of features are emerging from this tool now. Very good, run as radio episode 979.

02:05:55 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Yeah, here we are 21 shows away from the big 1000 that's amazing.

02:06:00 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Good job, richard. I don't know what I'm going to do. Honestly, I'm not running out of shows. That's not a problem.

02:06:05 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
That's not even close to a problem no, but how to celebrate is how do you celebrate that very?

02:06:11 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
difficult. Yeah, I don't know the answer I don't know what to do.

02:06:14
Yeah, we're uh, as as I mentioned. Let me uh. Let me go back to uh, this, as I mentioned, that's not what I wanted. Uh, that's, we are celebrating our 20th anniversary on Sunday. Yeah, and I didn't really know what to do either. We got Patrick I think Patrick Norton's coming back. Kevin Rose sent me a note, said you know, I just got off the plane, I went to Switzerland and London, stockholm, and now I'm going to Sweden and then I have to go to santa fe. So I don't, I'm busy. Wow, I said you're doing well, he's like a big shot now, right, so I said no problem.

02:06:55
You're doing great, thank you. Um, we're gonna have a good show anyway, because patrick will be there one of the originals, uh, along, uh with samable samet, who's our car guy's been with us for a long time and a good person to celebrate Alan Milventano, also former host of this Week in Computer Hardware. And, most importantly, videos from our fans that have been fantastic. Keep sending them, it's not too late. I want to just celebrate our audience, because that's really what makes all of our shows exist. We wouldn't be silly for me and richard and paul to get together once a week and talk to each other. That'd be weird, damn it, damn it, I know. But uh, thanks to you, we have an excuse. So we're going to celebrate that. That'll be this this Sunday. Now maybe you could recommend a little something, a little beverage, a little guaf to go along. So we'll call this the MVP collection because, coming into the MVP summit, I have been given a lot of whiskey, six or seven bottles.

02:08:05 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Is this a?

02:08:06 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
tribute thing. What happens there, I don't know. I think people listen to the show they really like, uh, the whiskey bit and so, knowing they were going to see me at the mvp summit, they literally asked okay and I bring you a bottle.

02:08:17
Oh, you are sure that's awesome. So, people, this is one of them. This comes from my friend, charlotte. She prefers to be called lottie and it's called the heart cut. And now, uh, lottie's not a whiskey expert, but her brother is in adjacent business in london and so, wanting to get me something unusual, he achieved that with the heart cut now I see it's mostly gone now. By the way, we all drank it together, okay.

02:08:47
It's only a 500 mil bottle. It's a smaller bottle. It's quite little actually. Sure, it's the bottles that got small, I understand? Yeah, this comes from a distillery called the East London Liquor Company. So this is in the east end of London, which is literally an area defined almost 2000 years ago as the east side, outside the Roman walls around Londinium. Oh my God, wow. And today the eastern edge of that was further changed when, at 1066 in the Battle of Hastings, and then the White Tower gets built, which now known as the London is now that east edge of that wall. So that's 1078 is when the tower goes up. So the east side has been the east end, has been the east end for a long time, north of the Thames but east of the walls. Now we're talking a little bit more contemporary time. The East London Liquor Company is on Regents. It's actually on the Hereford Union Canal, which you go up the Regents Canal to get to by Victoria Park.

02:09:49
It was created by a fellow by the name of Alex Wolpert, and Alex Wolpert is a former actor and producer, and while he was an actor, he was also a bartender, because he liked to eat, and so he became enamored of cocktails and ended up opening his own restaurants and bars and in 2014, decided to expand one of his bars to have a distillery in it a small one, but right away. Making gins and vodkas is that's how you make money. You can produce very quickly. It took a few years to actually get to whiskey making. His stills are very small a 2000 liter wash still, 650 liter Holstein style hybrid still very small. But because it was deeply connected to the bar community of London, this is where he sold this stuff and today he does make a single malt made out of barley out of Norfolk. He tends to use a mixture of spring and winter barley, so winter barley being harder and higher protein counts, and he does a couple of his own barrelings, including a version that's currently laid up in an Eylee barrels. We don't know exactly which one, but you can also get your own casking if you care to. It's about 3,500 pounds and you can lay up a casking in a bourbon cask for yourself and get a couple, couple hundred bottles from it. In fact, this particular edition I have here is one of only 344 bottles, but it's actually derived from his whiskey known as London Rye, which is 55% rye, 55% barley fairly common. The original edition released in 2018.

02:11:23
But this bottling was not done by East London Liquor. It was actually done by a third party called Drinks One, and so Drinks One is based in London, and they select barrels and various alcohols from various salators to create a select group, and that's what this is. So it's from the East London Liquor Company, but it was actually produced by Drinks One, and in this case, they barreled it in Hackney Brewery. Chocolate stout casks oh my God. So the Hackney Brewery again a local London brewery making their own beers. They make a very sturdy stout, and so this was aged for about four years in the stout casks.

02:12:07
And so look at the amount of color that comes in that for what is such a young whiskey? Three, four years old? Looks so good, only 344 bottles, I don't know there's any left. Uh, it comes at about 50 alcohol at about 60 pounds, about 75s, and uh it's but you won't be able to find it if there's only 344 bottles.

02:12:29
Very, very good yes oh, there he goes, he's drinking. There's 344 bottles. My goodness, I'm so jealous. Lot of you did good. Yeah, that's because there's only 500 ml bottles, so they actually got far more from what they would typically get from a cask you normally there would be only about. So that's a single cask, single cask bear does it taste like whiskey at all?

02:12:53
or did that? It definitely has that rye spice to it. The bang of of being rye forward and then, but it's got that chocolatey like literally makes your mouth salivate of a stout, right like a, like a guinness or a very strong dark beer is right there on the tongue. So you're a little confused because you thought you were drinking whiskey and yet you still kind of got that creamy, rich feel from the, from the beer. I'm always confused. That makes sense to me, yeah, but um, it's a, it's delightful. And so when it was brought to me when they um lottie, and's delightful. And so when it was brought to me when they um Lottie and a few of our other friends came up and stayed at the boathouse before we all went down to the MVP Summit together. So we drank this together and I thought I'd say a little for you all. But I just sitting off frame. Here are some of the other whiskeys like this is a Tasmanian. Um, this one's a whole line. Who knew? So I'm. I'm researching them now for later editions and in the the summit was very, very good to me.

02:13:55
You can't buy it in the US. I'm trying to buy it. Yeah, I think we might have to take a trip to London see if we could still swallow you. You know, you can go on the website, but it won't let me buy it. They're not going to deliver to the us. Yeah, yeah, I think that's. They're not alone anymore. Nope, we feel alone. I feel alone. We brexited, uh, brexited the world. Brexited the world. Oh boy, uh, wow, that really you. Now you make, you made my mouth water. That looks really good, happening to me too, and I had a taste. Yeah, wow, very nice, nice job. Lottie and all the others I'm gonna call everyone out the, the one I did a couple of weeks ago, the the kempish veer, was from my, that's, the belgian peated, and I talked about a couple weeks ago.

02:14:44
That was from my friend, hanus, who was also up here, which is why I did that one early. But the others the other two that I'm going to talk about, uh, will have come from the mvp summit, so we'll definitely call gifts for the mvp summit. Yeah, it's a new series we're going to start on youtube. Yeah, a couple, a couple of the others, uh were ones I've already talked about in the past, like uh, the the cavalan, which is the taiwanese. I got a fresh bottle of that and uh those are always wanting to yeah this, I got the new.

02:15:14
Um casper brought me the stunning, the new edition of the stunning, uh uh, peter, which is I haven't opened yet, but I know it's going to be great.

02:15:22 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
But we've already talked about stunning.

02:15:24 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
Don't feel you have to be original, but if you are, well, I figure, I'm not always original. But what I am? I figure, once we get through all of them then I'll go back and do different editions of the first one. So that's who richard is the most interesting man in the world I don't always drink whiskey. Yes, I do, I always know pretty much always drink whiskey and I usually a different one each time. There's like five of them sitting on the desk right. Unbelievable gifts are welcome.

02:15:49
Please feel free and and will be put to work. Yes, most importantly, richard campbell is at run his radiocom. He also does dot net rocks with carl franklin. You'll find both at his website. Run his radiocom joins us every week, so so good to have you, Richard. Thank you. Paul Theriot is at theriotcom T-H-U-R-R-O. Double good it's. Also. He's got his books Windows Everywhere, the Field Guide to Windows 11 at leanpubcom. How'd that sale go?

02:16:19 - Paul Thurrott  (Host)
Good, I made a lot of 73 cent sales. It was nice.

02:16:23 - Leo Laporte or Richard Campbell (Host)
No, it's good, you know, 73 cents there, 73 cents here. It adds up someday to a couple of bucks I don't know.

02:16:31
Pretty soon you have some cents. Tacos I finally have some cents. We do Windows Weekly, as I mentioned, every Wednesday 11am Pacific. I hope you will join us. If not, of course you can download a copy of the show. Please do join the club again. Annual memberships of course you could download a copy of the show. Please do join the club again. Annual memberships are back. If you're currently a monthly membership member, you just check the box in your subscription page. It'll change automatically. We thank you all for being here and we look forward to seeing you again next week on Windows Weekly. Thank you, paul. Thank you, richard, pleasure. Bye-bye on windows weekly. Thank you, paul. Thank you, richard, pleasure bye.