TWiT+ Club Shows 776 Transcript - Media Club #4

Please be advised that this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word-for-word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-free version of the show.
 

TWiT.tv [00:00:00]:
This is Twit.

Mikah Sargent [00:00:02]:
Hello and welcome back to Media Club. I am Micah Sargent, Amaze, Amaze, Amaze, and I am very excited to be talking about, uh, the film that replaced the top spot on my list of favorite films. Uh, it used to be occupied by The Social Network, and I started watching this film on a plane and realized that it was a good one. And so I stopped watching it on the tiny little screen in front of me on the plane and said, I will wait till I'm home so that I can see this in full glory. And that film is Project Hail Mary, which came out this year. It is—

Joe Esposito [00:00:50]:
wow.

Mikah Sargent [00:00:51]:
It's an interesting thing when you have an author who clearly can make content that— material, I should say— that works well as other forms of media. I was reading through and MGM actually purchased this, like, the rights to this novel for $3 million in 2020. That was a year before it actually published. And Ryan Gosling was already attached as both the leading man and producer in 2020. So they were ready, uh, and like the Martian team reassembled to make this as well. Uh, joining us today to talk about this film, we've got the wonderful Timothy and Joe. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Hello.

Joe Esposito [00:01:42]:
Hello.

Mikah Sargent [00:01:43]:
Hi guys. So I want to ask you first, uh, before we dig into everything, um, had you all read the book before the film, uh, hit the big screen? And at this point, ha— if no, uh, at this point, have either of you read the book?

Timothy Ingalls [00:02:05]:
No.

Mikah Sargent [00:02:05]:
And no.

Timothy Ingalls [00:02:07]:
No.

Joe Esposito [00:02:08]:
No.

Mikah Sargent [00:02:08]:
Okay.

Joe Esposito [00:02:09]:
Oh, okay.

Mikah Sargent [00:02:10]:
Oh, wow. So both of you, it's just the film. Okay. That's, that's interesting. Like, that's good interesting, because I do think that it makes a difference. When I— when Project Hail Mary first sort of hit theaters, I went online and got the audiobook at that point, and I started to read it, and then I stopped. Other things came up. I ended up again on the plane watching part of the film, and then I thought, I'm gonna finish the book.

Mikah Sargent [00:02:49]:
So I finished the book and then finished— started the film over again from the start. And it did have an impact on, um, on the way that I saw the film. And I almost think that it does a disservice, um, to have read the book first and then watched the film. so close together. And the reason this is not just sort of, you know, from nothing— anecdotally speaking, I spoke to someone who read the book back when it first came out and then watched the film when it came out, and that was a long time apart. And then I spoke to one other person who, like me, read the book right before, basically, and then watched the film. And both of us struggled with the condensing of the science that takes place in the film that they had— that Andy Weir has so much room in the book to explain and explore. And when I spoke to someone who did not even— who had not read the book at all, uh, and brought that up, he specifically was like, what do you— what do you mean? Like, truly, what do you mean? Because I feel like there was so much nerdery in the film.

Mikah Sargent [00:04:08]:
Um, what were the parts that were, you know, not— not covered or what have you. And so, yeah, I wanted to start there because I wanted to ask you both, in terms of the nerdery, the science fiction, the, um, you know, setting up rules and then following those rules in your universe, did you get that from this film? And do you tend to appreciate that kind of thing? I asked that because, like, that is what the book was for me. Um, and what I loved so much about the book was we've got this stuff that's like believable science and you follow the rules the whole time. And that— I eat that kind of thing up. Uh, let's go with you, Joe, first.

Joe Esposito [00:04:59]:
Okay, so as far as whether we have to follow the science or not, I grew up on Star Trek. which is garbage science. There is no real science. It's half made-up terms. There may be some stuff that occasionally overlaps that is actually real, but it just sounds good. It's technobabble, I think, is the term they came up with for Next Gen. So I don't really need the science to be accurate or believable because I'm not that smart. I'm not a science-oriented person.

Joe Esposito [00:05:29]:
I draw things. And that's my skill, but I can't understand anything. So that's why I often failed math and science constantly, to my parents' complete disappointment. So I read that there was a lot of very accurate science, that Andy Weir was on set, was keeping things, was trying to keep everything answered, all the questions. It apparently has grounded this in some type of reality. That's nice. I appreciate the effort. I really do.

Joe Esposito [00:05:55]:
But if I found out that he made all of it up, It really doesn't matter because I don't think the science— and this may— people may roast me for this— I don't think the science is the important part of this movie. I think the science is a byproduct. I think this is a movie about 2 characters, and you're either in on that or you're not. And if you're not in on that, who cares that the science is right? So to me, it's a nice thing but not a necessary thing.

Mikah Sargent [00:06:19]:
All right, Timothy, what about you?

Timothy Ingalls [00:06:22]:
Well, I had a Similar type of background with lots of Star Trek and appreciating when it is, you know, vaguely based on accurate science and then they extrapolate it to the science fantasy. Um, but I do kind of have more of an interest in like math and science, so I probably appreciate it more when it's more grounded. And for this one, no, I completely agree. It's like there's more to the story. You don't have to have the science be accurate. But for the people that appreciate the science, it just makes it that much more interesting and fascinating. And I guess also watching the movie, I was like, oh, this seems a little bit short and a little bit abbreviated on getting into the, the nerdery of the science behind it. But I've also heard a lot about the book and know that the author is one to kind of go into a lot more detail and be a lot more accurate.

Timothy Ingalls [00:07:16]:
And I also understand that, look, you're making a movie, you're trying to make it entertaining, and you're trying to get it within a certain time frame. So you have to be brief. You can't be overly verbose in explaining every tiny little detail. That's part of moviemaking. That's part of the magic of getting the story to move along so it remains entertaining the entire way through.

Mikah Sargent [00:07:41]:
Yeah, really well put, both of you. And I like the differing perspectives.

Joe Esposito [00:07:48]:
I—

Mikah Sargent [00:07:48]:
it's odd. I think I'm a bit of a mixture there in the sense that when it came to math, not very good at math at all. I, you know, I did my best, but now I'll do algebra, but leave me alone after that, please. And so I, I think that even when the science wasn't something that I could quite grasp, I felt sort of safe in the hands of what felt like someone who at least was confident in the stuff that they were talking about. And sometimes that's what it takes for me to go, okay, I can kind of relax and not let that, oh, are they getting this right? Are they getting that right? That I found really enjoyable. So, yeah. And you're right, Timothy, in the sense that, look, what we have is a film that can only say so much.

Joe Esposito [00:08:44]:
It's a—

Mikah Sargent [00:08:46]:
certain amount of time.

Joe Esposito [00:08:47]:
I—

Mikah Sargent [00:08:48]:
just for people who, you know, are, are curious about where my holdups were, there was one that really stood out to me, and it was when Grace is working, um, on identifying and trying to figure out how to, uh, sort of understand what makes up this organism. It's a longer drawn-out process in the books And it's more of a montage in the film, or it is a montage in the film. But I don't think— I think because I was sort of more primed for what was, uh, what was going to happen, how it was going to happen, it actually made it so that when, um, he breaks through, it happened so quickly and so abruptly for me that I thought, Wait, you didn't explain any of that at all. You didn't talk about how much you love, um, like nano, uh, syringes or whatever they're called, and how important it was that you went from doing all these ridiculous things to try to get at the cell to simply just poking it and having that work. And that, like, payoff in the book was fantastic. And so this kind of felt like You know, we're timing it to the beat of music practically, and then we're moving past it. So that was kind of the one spot that stuck out to me. But let's talk about, um, the, the film with the, the big picture of it all.

Mikah Sargent [00:10:16]:
So, uh, this was shot, I think, almost exclusively in the UK, and they wanted to build as much of it for real as possible. Um, it was, uh, the Hail Mary interior was a physical set. The crew did what they could to avoid green screens. Um, and I think that's really— like, I'm not, I'm not the, uh, practical effects purist or anything like that. I do think it's neat when actors are able to work against something that is more real. Uh, and I can't imagine what it has to be like working against a tennis ball on a stick. Like, that just would be my nightmare, I think. Budget of $248 million.

Mikah Sargent [00:11:04]:
And they— I mean, it's a swing and a hit, not a swing and a miss. $684 million worldwide gross. It's got some great ratings across the board. There was only one. It was Variety's Owen Gleiberman who said, quote, and I just so disagree, not a very good movie. Okay, bud. Anyway, everybody's got their opinions. It is—

Joe Esposito [00:11:34]:
let me see.

Mikah Sargent [00:11:36]:
Oh yeah, the Oscar push, of course, is on. We'll see how that goes. What I do love is that the puppeteer who performs and voices Rocky, they're really trying to get him a supporting actor Oscar. And if he does get nominated, that would be the— I could be wrong about this, and movie nerds, feel free to come at me. I would love to know. But I'm pretty sure this is the first for a puppet performance, which I'm so sorry to all of Jim Henson's people. This, this would be the first for a puppet performance. So again, before we dig in, something that's interesting when you have people who read with their eyes versus me who reads with my ears.

Mikah Sargent [00:12:25]:
Um, if you're reading with your eyes, you're making up your own voice for Rocky. And that was something that I talked to people about, like, how did you hear Rocky's voice? And then how did it change for you in the film when you hear Rocky's voice? Whereas for me, as an audiobook listener, I had someone performing those parts already. So And it was really fascinating too how they handled going from sounds being made to voice, because in the book, the audiobook, it was almost like computer tones. And of course, it's written as just little musical notes. And in the movie, you've got the more whale-soundy kind of a thing going. And I found that just fascinating. As a whole, like different people, their interpretations of how it goes. Um, but let's get into the plot.

Mikah Sargent [00:13:23]:
This is the big thing, and this is, this is, well, you know, the, the meat and potatoes of it all. So it starts the same in the book and the film. Uh, you see somebody waking up on a bed. Uh, there's like robot arms, and, uh, he's getting quizzes. He's trying to speak, trying to kind of move around. And of course, this is our main character, Ryland Grace. Now, when I first started watching the film, seeing this as the opening scene, not having read the, the book yet, I did not know it was a mystery yet. I thought that he was kind of waking up and it was just going to take him a second to get back into his, you know, mind, and then he was going to be like, all right, this is what I'm here to do.

Mikah Sargent [00:14:18]:
So that really was, uh, like, it caught me off guard in the best way and immediately drew me in as, as part of that. And, um, yeah, I mean, uh, Joe, I know that you, because we've talked about it, have watched a lot of kind of like horror and, um— thrillers and space films. And I kind of wanted to get your take on, on, you know, comparisons to other space films, Alien especially, and this idea of sort of waking up disoriented. Did it fill you with any dread at all, or was it more like a— because it kind of was trying to be comedic, did it, did it lean into that?

Joe Esposito [00:15:05]:
I'm gonna be honest, I, I almost gave up on this movie based on the opening. I really did not like the way it was done because it felt— it feels so overdone.

Timothy Ingalls [00:15:15]:
Uh-huh.

Joe Esposito [00:15:16]:
And the movie slowly got better, and then it really landed for me kind of about the halfway point or so. But this opening I did not like.

Mikah Sargent [00:15:24]:
Okay.

Joe Esposito [00:15:24]:
Until— so I should say, because there's— they're kind of cutting back and forth and you're getting these memories from Earth that are cut in. The stuff on the ship, I went, okay, I got it. Yeah, he doesn't remember. Okay, am I smart? I got it. Okay, yes, yes, you're hitting me over the head with this. Can we get to the part where he either remembers or there's a thing that plays on the screen that says, here's who you are? But then they started doing the stuff back on Earth. And the stuff back on Earth, I immediately started to— there was something odd about it to me where I'm sitting there going, why does this feel so familiar? Until I realized it was Stargate. Now, I don't know if they intentionally were mirroring Stargate with James Spader.

Joe Esposito [00:16:02]:
with the whole thing where he's kind of the smart person who's a bumbling, you know, not socially all that great. They put him in a room with important people and he's like— and then I started to really— I was like, I like this part of it because I love Stargate, because I love James Spader. Then I started thinking about why we never got a James Spader and Ryan Gosling at their prime in a movie together, but that's a discussion for a completely different forum. We're not going to get into that now. But as far as this movie, once they started doing that, it started to humanize him in a much better way. Although I will say You cannot go wrong with a white shirt with colored bars across it. It always looks good. It's retro and future at the same time.

Joe Esposito [00:16:35]:
He wore it fantastically. And the red spacesuit— I love red, an all-red spacesuit. But I'm jumping ahead, sorry.

Mikah Sargent [00:16:42]:
No, that's okay.

Joe Esposito [00:16:42]:
That's the thing is that, you know, the part where it's trying to shave his face and all that stuff, that wore out very quickly for me. But then when the inner cutting and I started to get what was going on and they didn't make him immediately a courageous, heroic, yes, I'm on board, and all that stuff, that was really good. And so that started to build the momentum where I started to really like it. So the opening's fine. I understand why it's there. It's to establish, like you said, the amnesia thing, the mystery, what's happening, how did I get here. I think they could have breezed through that a little faster, but that's just me. So that was my kind of opening with it.

Mikah Sargent [00:17:17]:
And Timothy?

Timothy Ingalls [00:17:20]:
Oh, I do remember. So I haven't read the book, so I had no idea what to expect. So the very first time I watched the movie, I was just very, very confused as to what was going on. And, you know, it's like, okay, when are they gonna get to like the idea of what the movie is behind? And so I agree, yeah, it probably did take a little bit longer than you would expect before things started to come together. But then the second time I watched it, I probably focused more on how would I feel if I was in that situation where you wake up, you don't know where you are, who you are, What's going on? This machine's coming at you. You don't remember if it's attacking you or trying to help you. I just started thinking about how would I feel and how confused and frustrated would I be in that type of situation? And then realizing it's like, wait a second, why do I— like in the movie, it's like, why do I know this thing? How do I know that?

Mikah Sargent [00:18:15]:
Yeah. Oh, I just, I love the mystery of it all at first and the— Because of course, for me, I immediately go into like almost a critic's eye of now, does the, does the, the psychopsychology or the psychoneurology make sense here? And if you did have some sort of aphasia and loss of memory, would you remember these parts about yourself or not? And again, my ADHD brain is sort of eating that up as I'm able to have a little laugh every once in a while. And I thought that the beats for this first part were quite good in terms of we're having these up moments, and then you get hit with like the cold dead of space and being alone in space and how, uh, frightening that can be. Um, again, as we're going through, which this is another— we'll talk about it, but, uh, the difference in the games. that Grace plays with his students in the film versus in the book is funny. And I ended up looking up some science teachers' sort of responses to the choices that Andy Weir made, and then that the producers made in the film, and sort of their complaints about how they're like, well, no, 'cause if this favors this type of student, and that other student gets left behind in this. And it was really funny. If you want to, kind of a nod-along chuckle, then you could look up some of that.

Mikah Sargent [00:19:55]:
But in the flashback, we see that Grace is a middle school science teacher, of course, was a molecular biologist, and we learn that the Sun is dimming. There's this weird smear, this infrared band that exists between the Sun and Venus, which comes to be called the Petrova Line. It's a microbe, the astrophage, and it's called that astrophage because it eats suns, it eats, uh, stars. And Earth, um, they've calculated has like 30-ish years before it cools, uh, to a degree that could be catastrophic. Um, Ava Strat, uh, played by Sandra Hüller, is head of the task force and comes in and asks Grace, uh, hey, I need you to please help us. And it's all because He basically got kicked out of being a molecular biologist for his very staunch takes on the idea that all life requires— what is it— hydrogen? Now I'm forgetting. Hydrogen and oxygen.

Timothy Ingalls [00:21:06]:
Water.

Mikah Sargent [00:21:07]:
Basically water. Yeah, thank you. To survive. And it is like I've met I've met people who are precisely like Grace in that way, and I adore them. And so this is just like a reminder of people who stick to their ideas so wholeheartedly that sometimes it can get them in trouble while otherwise being kind of non-threatening. Because there's a type that is more threatening, and then there's Grace, and it's just kind of like, oh, bud. But, but yes, in In the novel, Grace is the one who comes up with astrophage, and then the US president ends up using it in a national address like the day late— a day later. And so it's really wild because Grace is learning that— In the books, you and he are caught off guard by how important his work is and that you know, he doesn't realize that he's literally shaping policy and the world and it happening so quickly.

Mikah Sargent [00:22:22]:
And so he has to kind of reconcile a little bit with the level of power that he has, where he kind of at first saw himself as just one of many people that are working on the problems. And I— yeah, I really, really liked that in, in the books. And of course, in the film, a little bit different because Astrophage doesn't come up a lot. as that thing, as that concept. I wanted to say too that— oh yeah. Sandra Hüller, who I think did a fantastic job as Strat, was already kind of well known for some of the other work. Best Actress nominee for Anatomy of a Fall and The Zone of Interest. And so it was a little, you know, there's thoughts that it was a bit of a recruitment, but I think that she played the part so well.

Mikah Sargent [00:23:18]:
Um, so yeah, this is the next kind of question that I have for both of you. And I'm, you know, I'm curious about people out there who are watching this now and will watch it later. Uh, this— what we're doing, I mean. Um, you— if, if you were called, uh— And let's not be self-deprecating here, okay? I know that both of you have things that you know about. So if you were called to service by a government agent, what would they come to you for and say, look, I need you to help with this? Uh, I know, I know, I, uh, I can go first. Um, I am thinking about this on the spot as that question just came up on the spot for me, and I think That what they might call me to service for would be something to do with communication to the masses, frankly. I think that taking particularly kind of scary ideas and scary info and trying to be mindful of the technical aspects, what needs to get communicated, and how that might have an impact on someone's psychology all coming together would press So yeah, I'd basically be asked to do PR, I think, would be the role that I would play. I could already think of something for you, Joe, because I know more about you.

Mikah Sargent [00:24:48]:
And I am curious to hear what Timothy has to say. But Joe, do you have a thought? And if you don't, then I'll answer for you.

Joe Esposito [00:24:57]:
Outside of really, really niche '90s comic knowledge, if they want me to rant about Kyle Rayner being the worst Green Lantern for 30 minutes. I could do it at the drop of a hat. But in practical terms, uh, probably something in terms— I've thought about this in a different way. If it went Mad Max and the warlord showed up and said, what skill do you have? They're like, I can draw things for you. Would you like a nice emblem for your warlordship or whatever? Do you need a map of the people you will conquer? I can do that for you. Portrait, sir? No problem.

Timothy Ingalls [00:25:28]:
Whatever.

Joe Esposito [00:25:28]:
Please don't roast me over a pit. That's probably the primary easiest thing. I also do, and this will amaze people, have a good communication ability as well where I can explain things in relatively easy terms. But like I said, if there's a bunch of knives to my face, the first thing is give me a pad and pencil and let me draw why I'm better alive. Look, it's me smiling and you not killing me. And that's probably the first thing.

Mikah Sargent [00:25:54]:
Yes, I love that. I was thinking for you too, helping to visualize what these— with your, your skills as an artist, visualizing for people, uh, what these astrophages look like as they're sort of floating in a nebula and, uh, kind of helping people to better understand it by being able to see it that way, um, would be, would be really cool. Now, Timothy, again, because I don't know you as well yet, I, uh, would love to hear what you would be called to service for.

Timothy Ingalls [00:26:26]:
I, I really have no idea. It'd either be something, you know, like cloud-related, networking-related, or unless they want somebody that's really good at following directions for like Legos or IKEA. I honestly don't know.

Mikah Sargent [00:26:43]:
I was thinking once again, uh, education in terms of, um, like different people learn different ways, and I know that you know unless I'm misremembering, a whole hell of a lot about Minecraft, correct?

Timothy Ingalls [00:26:58]:
I do play a decent amount of Minecraft and set up some servers for my nephews, so.

Mikah Sargent [00:27:03]:
Yeah, and so I was thinking that you could be so helpful for helping students during the 30 years in simulations and things like that and making it much more palatable and kind of like Because of course, in a world where you've only got 30 years to try to figure this out, you really do have to bring everyone on board. We're throwing out the idea that like kids can't know about this and that it would be, you know, trauma. Like, the world changes and it has to. And so, yeah, I think that we would need people who are helping to teach everyone. And given that Minecraft is sort of in that space of, you know, the Roblox of it all and lots of kids playing that, I think that's also one place where you could be very helpful. Anthony, would be in charge of so much behind the scenes and quietly doing so. And we would come to find out that, like, the reason that we're able to communicate with the probes that have gone out is because Anthony figured out a way to do that properly. And then at the same time, the only reason that we're able to, like, send out video comms across the US is because of that.

Mikah Sargent [00:28:11]:
And then Anthony will have worked with you to— Joe, to create, like, graphics packages that are, again, part of the education. So yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready for all of us to be able to do this work. And again, you out there, Club Twit members, I want to know what would you be called to service for? So if you're watching live, John Salanina, I could think of dozens of things for you for sure. But if you're watching after the fact, comment in the thread and I'll enjoy reading those. So Uh, Grace goes on to work out, uh, that the Astrophage is able to store a bunch of energy somehow. Um, and then we go, oh, right, uh, let's make rocket fuel out of this so that we can, uh, go figure out what's going on. There's a little bit more, um, about that soon.

Mikah Sargent [00:29:04]:
Uh, there's also the security officer Carl, who's assigned to stay with him and try to figure out what's going on. Uh, I love their friendship for sure. It is almost exactly the same in the books in the relationship that the two of them have. And so I found it so delightful to get to see their relationship play out on screen with a fun sort of montage again. And it was— part of it, this part is that— Well, hold on. Oh yeah, yeah, okay.

Timothy Ingalls [00:29:41]:
I—

Mikah Sargent [00:29:41]:
in my notes it says that Carl didn't exist in the book, and I was like, wait, what? But it's because, uh, there's another kind of situation in the book. Um, wait, am I misremembering now? I thought that Grace ends up working with someone in the book. This is blowing my mind.

Joe Esposito [00:29:59]:
This is going to need a 4th person with good memory. I'm sorry, yeah, who is good at remembering the difference between text and adaptation.

Mikah Sargent [00:30:06]:
This is why I got started doing audiobooks. That's the problem. I could have sworn that there was a person that he works with in the books, but maybe I'm misremembering that because I remember—

Joe Esposito [00:30:15]:
I can't help you here. We didn't read the book.

Mikah Sargent [00:30:17]:
Yeah, I know.

Joe Esposito [00:30:18]:
John, help!

Mikah Sargent [00:30:20]:
John, please. Because Carl— he's saying Carl in the book. Yeah, you're right. There wasn't a guy named Carl in the book. But doesn't he— anyway, there's somebody who's like watching over him in the books and ends up helping out, as far as I can recall. But it could have been that I, in watching the film twice, I'm thinking of, uh, the first time that I watched it as part of my, like, book reading. Anyway, so this is where we get to see, uh, Grace do the research and, uh, try to figure out what's going on with this Astrophage. And it is— there's so much, uh, to— pun not originally intended but now intended— there's so much star power that has to be part of this.

Mikah Sargent [00:31:04]:
this primary character because, yeah, I think in real life there's a lot more working together that you would see and a lot more of like spread out assignments of people. But here we've got this one guy is somehow the one who beats everybody else to getting into the Astrophage, and then he's also the one who— Who's in charge. spoiler alert, survives on the ship, um, the Project Hail Mary. And so it's, it's, it's very isolating in that way. But I felt that Ryan Gosling did a good job of, um, of being able to be that without— because there are some roles that he's played where he is a little overbearing in his charisma. And I didn't feel that overbearing charisma in this, but I was still constantly interested. And so I wanted to ask you too about that.

Timothy Ingalls [00:32:09]:
Well, I guess I have a question for you. In the book, was it a similar type of thing where it was kind of like so isolating and focused on one person discovering all this?

Mikah Sargent [00:32:21]:
Well, now I'm doubting all of my memory of the book, to be honest with you. But, um, yeah, yes, especially like On the Hail Mary and that part of it, 100%. There was, I would say, a little bit more exploration of how different people were working on different things in the book. But Grace was still, despite almost being dismissed as part of the process, was still such an important part of the process. And was, as we said, like, he coined the term in the book and ended up shaping policy where the president was, you know, saying, the word the next day. And so, yeah, it was still relatively isolating in that way, and I think that was it.

Timothy Ingalls [00:33:07]:
Yeah, I wasn't sure if I, um, if that was kind of just an interesting choice in, uh, screenplay adaptation, or if it was just an interesting choice in story writing. And it sounds like it was more a choice of story writing.

Mikah Sargent [00:33:22]:
Uh, yeah, I mean, that's that. Is that— that parallel there, there I think is on purpose. Um, and so Jimmer B is saying, yeah, there were security guys in the book, but they don't really talk to him. So I did misremember that. Um, and in the book, then that even adds more to the isolation of it all. Like when he is testing the Astrophage, it's the same where he's in this room by himself and they're like at a distance and They even get into kind of talking about why, uh, you know, some of you are just disposable in comparison and what that, you know, what, what coming to terms with that. Um, so I think that parallel of isolation is part of it. I mean, he starts out as kind of a, uh, not necessarily a lone wolf.

Mikah Sargent [00:34:16]:
I don't think he wants to be a lone wolf, but an outcast. And then he literally gets outcast into space. And that is kind of a fun but wild concept that I can't imagine kind of having to deal with. So moving along, we are back on the Hail Mary in the present, and Grace has learned the mission finally. Going to Tau Ceti, 11.9 light years away. And it's, for some reason, the one, one nearby star that they can see where Astrophage is believed to be present, but the star has not dimmed. So they're trying to figure out why that's the case. But he does some calculations and learns that he's able to do these calculations to find out that the ship only has fuel for a one-way trip.

Mikah Sargent [00:35:09]:
And so he's like, how do I get the information back if I'm out here, you know, doing this research? Well, there are probes that get sent back home. So he's very alone. He does indulge in some booze, which are arguably understandable while he's out there.

Timothy Ingalls [00:35:30]:
It—

Mikah Sargent [00:35:30]:
this is kind of a funny thing. It turns out the directors who turned— it was the directors who turned the floor mop that Grace, you know, moves around with. They gave it glasses, they gave it a dress, and The shots of Gosling dancing, crying, and interacting with the mop were just kind of— they said, you know, go have fun, go do things with Moppy Ringwald, as it were. And, uh, a lot of that ended up making it into the film. Um, according to Andy Weir, the filmmakers decided to enlarge the whole ship so that the actors had room to move. But of course, in the book's version, Well, you, you aren't aware of this. It was a lot smaller. And so that was a big difference between the two.

Mikah Sargent [00:36:28]:
When— if you've just read the books and you're like, oh, I saw it as so much more claustrophobic, it did not play out that way in, in the film. We'll keep moving on because we do then have the introduction of alien life. Grace is out, you know, doing his thing, and then there's another ship. And this ship is like moving with Grace and— well, Grace's ship— and is clearly responding in some way. Made of solid xenon. And Grace ends up calling this xenonite. And knows that However this is working, because he's used to xenon being a gas, uh, it has to have come from somewhere else. And somehow this ship builds out in space this tunnel that connects between the two.

Mikah Sargent [00:37:31]:
And Grace, for the first time, uh, goes out and, uh, into the tunnel in full spacesuit and like taps On the wall, and then something taps back. Dun dun dun! So again, for you two, I want to hear your takes on this moment, how you experienced it, because ostensibly you didn't have the comfort of knowing that the thing on the other side would end up being, uh, a friend. And so this tap It could be terrifying. Was it for you, or had you already known, like, okay, at some point there's this Rocky thing that comes along, so this must be Rocky?

Timothy Ingalls [00:38:15]:
I was kind of guessing because, you know, spoilers happen no matter how hard you try not to, uh, get spoilers. So, but yeah, they definitely did. Um, they definitely went with the style in the movie of trying to make it more like a scary horror movie with, you know, when Rocky was revealed, and then it completely changes. But yeah, they had the suspense that they wanted for that. I thought it was decent.

Joe Esposito [00:38:44]:
Joe? Yeah, I didn't know. Well, I mean, outside of the osmosis of seeing Rocky shirts all over the place where I'm like, well, if he killed Ryan Gosling, I don't think they'd be putting him on a shirt with Rocky saying— it's just a guess. I mean, maybe it'd be another Alien or Sheep situation, but but it didn't seem that way. So I just— just knowing how movies work, I'm sitting here going, this is really early in a pretty long movie and he's meeting this alien. I don't remember the trailer having space guns and firing and gunships and stuff, so I don't think they're adversarial. Uh, you know, I— so I, I didn't know for sure. I didn't know if there was going to be a period of, okay, they, they're sizing each other up and they're gonna do stupid things because they don't understand each other, and then they'll come to an understanding. Again, another comic trope.

Joe Esposito [00:39:28]:
So if you've read comics, this happens all the time. That's why Superman fights Batman and stuff like that. But once they got to, you know, the, the language thing, I thought was really well done, how they had to try to understand. And the idea that Rocky could see things, um, what's the word for it, where he could see textures, he couldn't see flat. Yeah, echolocation.

Mikah Sargent [00:39:45]:
Yeah, yeah.

Joe Esposito [00:39:47]:
That I thought was a really neat element because that's always the— that's always one of these elements that some people get hung up on if they're really strict about Well, if you encounter aliens, why should we assume that they would understand what humans say? But okay, you can let things go. It's called, you know, going with the story, suspending disbelief.

Mikah Sargent [00:40:03]:
Yeah.

Joe Esposito [00:40:04]:
But in a movie like this, it makes more sense to establish that there is some barrier they have to overcome. But again, how long do you want to spend on that? And they solved it, I think, in the right amount of time. I feel like the pacing got very good in— as the movie hit the midway point, it started to speed up and it got more, because this movie originally, I think they said, was almost 4 hours long, which I actually would like to see because maybe some of the stuff you're talking about, Micah, that's missing from the book is in the longer cut. Yeah, and I would say I would love the longer cut. I feel like this movie is too long as it currently exists, and I think it would make more sense as like a 2 or 3 part miniseries to really flesh all this stuff out. I don't mind it, but most modern audiences don't want a 2-hour-plus movie.

Timothy Ingalls [00:40:48]:
Yeah.

Joe Esposito [00:40:49]:
So I feel like they got the pacing under control once Rocky got into it, because I think they again understood that this is the relationship that has to work. And once Rocky's in and they've got the language established, then the thing just starts speeding up and you really don't even notice the time anymore. Whereas before that, I'm sitting there going, this movie is how long? Are we gonna get to something? I mean, I know he's in a ship, but can we, you know, cut back and forth? Can we get somewhere? And then once Rocky shows up, it's like, okay, got it. This is why they wanted Lord and Miller, because this is now going to be heartwarming and funny, and that's what works.

Mikah Sargent [00:41:21]:
I love that you say that because this was, you know, having again read the book first, I think I was then able— I, I had more built-in patience for the payoff. But when Sebastian and I watched this, when my partner and I watched this, um, he had not read the book before and He was getting a little antsy and sort of like, is what? Okay, this is— and when I heard him telling then the next day some of his friends, there's a film that you should watch, he specifically sort of, now just give it some time. I promise you, like, it's worth sticking around for. So that actually feels like a pretty— Now common take that It's depending on, you know, A, your level of knowledge about films and sort of like trusting that there are beats and there's all sorts of stuff that gets involved that you either do have that or you don't. And again, for me, I'm primed and ready for this wheel shift. I think that it can really impact it and feel slower or faster depending. For you, Timothy, as someone who did lean more into the science and the math of it all, like when you're talking about books and other media, Did you also feel the pacing was a little slow to get around to this?

Timothy Ingalls [00:42:46]:
I don't know if I'd say that. It did feel slow, like for a movie, but I don't know if I would say it was slow. The one thing I thought they actually should have spent a little bit more time on is the starting of establishing communication between Grace and Rocky. That to me, that actually felt a little bit rushed. where it was almost like Rocky could immediately understand Grace, but Grace took time to understand Rocky. It just seemed a little quick. But again, it's a movie, you got to keep things moving along, so you're gonna skip things and, you know, go a little bit faster than you would in a book. I think that was like one of the disappointments for me.

Timothy Ingalls [00:43:26]:
It was like I wanted to see more time with that first establishing, uh, communication, not just jumping straight to Hey, I guess you understand me. I need to figure out how to understand you.

Joe Esposito [00:43:37]:
And I don't disagree with you either, Timothy, except that I think this is the problem when you're doing this for a mainstream audience that isn't into this stuff, is they've spent so much time on really sciency concepts, at least to people who aren't into it, that I think they— and this is— I'm gonna do the same thing because I'm gonna have my wife watch this because this is one of these movies where I know she's gonna have to get through the first half, but once Rocky shows up, she'll be crying by the the end. So I'm like, okay, you're gonna bear with this, but trust me, in the end it will pay off. It's like a sure bet. I know she'll be not—

Mikah Sargent [00:44:08]:
That's how I felt about it.

Joe Esposito [00:44:10]:
It's gonna be, but I'm gonna have to—

Timothy Ingalls [00:44:12]:
if there's a longer—

Joe Esposito [00:44:13]:
be patient.

Timothy Ingalls [00:44:15]:
If there's a longer cut of this, I hope it includes more of the establishing communication, because again, it was fine. It was just a little bit faster than I like.

Mikah Sargent [00:44:23]:
But yeah, and the book had loads of it.

Timothy Ingalls [00:44:26]:
For a modern audience, you know, that's something they don't care about as much. So you need to kind of show that but not go into super nitty-gritty granular detail of like, let's establish math, let's establish, you know, this, let's, you know, have you heard of math?

Joe Esposito [00:44:43]:
There's an interesting thing that they don't do with movies, at least not in, in the United States, but they do it very a lot with Japanese animes. You have a movie version of a story, and then you have the, the actual episodes. And the people who want the longer, more fleshed-out stuff watch the episodes, and anybody who wants the condensed version watches the, the movie version that they make, a condensed version. And this feels like a perfect candidate for that, where, okay, will Amazon release an extended cut that puts a lot of this back in, or will someone fan edit it once it's inevitably released with all the extras? This made too much money not to get a super release, so it will get a packed release, I'm sure. And I will absolutely watch that. I doubt I would get my wife to. I think that's going to be more for me to be like, yes, I'm the heavyweight nerd in this household, I'll watch it. But I think she will like this when she gets past the first half of it.

Timothy Ingalls [00:45:32]:
Yeah, I would absolutely watch that as well, but probably over 2 or 3 nights instead of one.

Mikah Sargent [00:45:38]:
Yeah, yeah, that's fair. Um, all right, let's keep on keeping on here. So, um, After, of course, the meeting of Rocky, we find out after the tap that this is a 5-legged sort of rock-skinned creature from the planet Arid who ends up being an engineer and orbits a star. What is it? 40 Eridani. And Grace is the one who gives him the name Rocky. A little on the nose if you ask me, but Rocky doesn't have eyes, as you pointed out, Joe. And use sound to see the world, but then that also means that they communicate with it as well. One of the things I don't remember now, uh, not trusting which one this came from— I think it was the books, um, the book— was the concept that because of the way that they communicate, uh, with sound, they are able to like gather in a group and thrum together, and it sort of forms a neural network that allows them to make decisions as a group and use all of their collective knowledge together.

Mikah Sargent [00:46:58]:
And I thought that was so cool and a little bit reminiscent of what we on Earth are doing with LLMs and generative AI models. Thank you, Jammerbee. Jammerbee is becoming my memory bank because I've they're both blending together because they happen so closely together. And I just love that concept, the concept of thrumming together. It's like socialism perfected.

Timothy Ingalls [00:47:24]:
That explains something much later in the movie.

Mikah Sargent [00:47:28]:
Yeah, well, yes, exactly, it does. Yeah, we'll get to that. But yes, um, and I just— yeah, I just— I think it's so neat how the care that is given to, uh, cultural differences that can come based on how people communicate, because I'm already obsessed with that, um, idea in Arrival. Which is probably going to be the one that we'll add to the list of. And I know that a lot of the real-life research around that is sort of not, not— it's sort of pseudo. But the idea that if your language gives you the— because we shift from, as babies, not quite having a way to articulate our thoughts. And then as we develop our language, then our brains shift into being, um, arranged by our language and in some ways then constrained by our language. And so if you have a language that's more expansive, I think of German especially.

Mikah Sargent [00:48:30]:
That's part of the reason, like, I want to learn German because I feel like it will give me more ability to think about things. Uh, but it's— if you have a more expansive language, then you are able to think, think bigger, think differently, think in new ways. And so anyway, I thought that was really cool. So Rocky, mostly a real puppet. The Neil Scanlan's Creature Shop built a bunch of different versions. There was an animatronic one that they called the Waldo. There was a rod-operated version called Bun Rocky, I think because it's Bunraku is the sort of puppetry style that's used. So I guess I should say Bun Rocky instead of Bun Rocky.

Mikah Sargent [00:49:14]:
And then there's the reference version that they created that is used for the animators. By the end of the film, by the end of the creation of it, it was roughly half puppetry and half VFX is what they said. I think they benefited from a lot of the times Rocky being in dark environments. So that way it was arguably harder to tell the difference between the two. Um, one for me didn't feel too much slicker than the other, but I have to say, I don't really— I only have the eye for very obvious. I don't have the eye for not so obvious. And I think part of that is like my own—

Timothy Ingalls [00:49:56]:
I—

Mikah Sargent [00:49:57]:
that is part of my suspension of disbelief in a film is, uh, if you, if you nail it to this threshold, then you've got all my grace and forgiveness on anything else. Uh, but that's why I wanted to ask the two of you. Did you feel at times a difference between the two versions of Rocky? Did you notice it? Did any of that stick out to you? And then did it kind of pull you out of it at all? Uh, Joe?

Joe Esposito [00:50:26]:
I, I mean, only because I know the logistics of filmmaking to a minor degree. Like, there's certain things where if he's flying across a room at high speed, I know an animator, a puppeteer, can't do that. So they would have to do it via CG, you know, especially when he's in the bubble.

Mikah Sargent [00:50:39]:
Says you.

Joe Esposito [00:50:40]:
Yeah, well, but I'm kidding, I'm kidding. But, but I don't care. I'm not anti-CG that way. I think that if it's amplifying the story and enabling the story to be told, that's fine. I think my issue, and a lot of other people who do tend to like practical more often, is you do tend to feel that weightlessness. But in space, does that matter as much? Well, not really, because there's a lot of weightlessness anyway. And the fact that they endeavor to have as much practical as possible, well, they're going to have to have VFX There's VFX in everything, everybody. I hate to tell you, there's CG everywhere and in everything.

Timothy Ingalls [00:51:13]:
Yes.

Joe Esposito [00:51:14]:
But I think that there was only 1 or 2 times where, just based on the speed of how Rocky was moving, I went, okay, unless this person has 8 extra limbs where they're climbing along the set, this has to be being done digitally through some kind of CG, uh, one way or another. But I don't think at any point was it so noticeable that I went, oh, you've taken me out of the story. No, I think they handled it really well. So while I may have been able to pick up on it just because I'm looking at the set and the way everything looks, I'm a film nerd. Most people aren't. They don't care. So no, most people probably would never see it. And I think the fact that I don't care means that they did it well.

Timothy Ingalls [00:51:55]:
I, to be honest, I didn't even really notice any difference or when they changed from, you know, different puppets to, you know, from practical to CG. Which I guess is good, and it's unlike some movies that you go back and watch them now and you're like, oh yeah, that is a scene where they did it in CG and it is obvious. But knowing that, now that I think about it, knowing that Rocky was a puppet, it does make it a little bit more funny when Rocky kept asking for the puppet show.

Joe Esposito [00:52:25]:
Yeah.

Mikah Sargent [00:52:25]:
Oh, that is funny. Yes. Oh my goodness, I hadn't even considered that. Let's see. So James Ortiz, who led the puppeting of Rocky, ended up picking— he handpicked the puppeteers that joined him. Of course, he called them Rockyteers, duh, and said, look— Scanlan, whose creature shop was in charge of making the Rocky puppet, said, you're Frank Oz. And I'm making Yoda for you, which I just love. Like, he put his heart and soul into it.

Mikah Sargent [00:53:04]:
What's wild is that this was his— James Ortiz's first film. He is a stage puppet designer and worked with the recent revival of Little Shop of Horrors. And when Grace is cycling through the synthetic voices for Rocky to try to decide on which one's going to stick, Uh, The uncredited Meryl Streep. You see Grace say, she can do anything. And here's what's great about it. I learned that— what am I trying to say? I learned that Gosling was not told in advance that Meryl Streep was going to be featured in this. And so that was like an actual moment. And Meryl Streep was asked about it and said that she recorded like a million different versions, and then they chose that for her.

Joe Esposito [00:53:57]:
her. I love that.

Mikah Sargent [00:53:59]:
Um, also, 40 Eridani—

Joe Esposito [00:54:02]:
Batman, it would be the right choice.

Mikah Sargent [00:54:04]:
So true. That is so true. Can we get on that? Somebody get on that. Um, 40 Eridani, it's a system that NASA, uh, thought about floating as the, like, home for Star Trek's Vulcan. Uh, so, like, if there was a place where Vulcan was, that would be, uh, it. And then, um, In that case, that would mean that Rocky and Spock exist nearby one another. They're sort of neighbors. Now we should fist each other's bump.

Mikah Sargent [00:54:35]:
Rocky moves into this pressurized xenonite bubble so that he's able to come over and immediately becomes like the nightmare roommate. Neither species, of course, can survive in each other's atmosphere. Love that aspect of it as well, them figuring out a way to get to hang out together despite that. And that is where it turns into a buddy dramedy, where the emedy part is both comedy and tragedy. Rocky, sole survivor of his own crew. We find out that the rest of his crew probably died from radiation poisoning. And so these 2 both experienced sort of mirror things of, of both of them being the last person left on their ships. Um, Ortiz and Gosling— again, for people who don't remember, Ortiz is the one who's playing Rocky and is the puppeteer— uh, improvised for up to 40 to 45 minutes at a time.

Mikah Sargent [00:55:38]:
And in doing so, uh, that final test cut, um, that became part of the film— or excuse me, the first test cut that they had was nearly 4 hours of footage of just improvisation to figure out what was going to end up being the actual stuff. Uh, there's a part where, uh, Rocky says, Rocky hate Mark, and it, uh, was about where Gosling was talking about an ex who left him for a guy named Mark. Well, uh, Gosling was trying to give a tribute to his costumer who's been his costumer for about a decade, uh, Mark Avery. And I guess Mark Avery had said, you know, I, I never would have dreamed in my life that I would end up making it into a film. So he was really honored to get to do that. Uh, the part where Gosling's character says, at least he's not growing in me, is of course a reference to Alien. And turns out Ortiz almost got replaced. They were going to swap in a bigger star's voice, but they loved his performance and said, look, there's no improvement on this.

Mikah Sargent [00:56:47]:
And I'm really— I really like Rocky's voice in this, so I'm glad they went with that. Amaze, amaze, amaze, as they say.

Joe Esposito [00:56:54]:
Can I point out, by the way, as a small thing, and this is because I am a massively egotistical native New Yorker, Oh. They had to show Rocky and they had to do the New York voice and the accent because of course they did. You gotta show New York, you gotta have the New York accent. It— no movie can escape it because it's so awesome and it's great and I love it, it's there. And also I love that he referred to his sleeping quarters as a crib Hellraiser thing because I went, oh, I'm a Hellraiser fan, so I love any reference to Hellraiser. And they managed to get into this movie, which is otherwise fairly mainstream because kids If you're underage, don't watch Hellraiser.

Mikah Sargent [00:57:30]:
It's gonna mess you up.

Joe Esposito [00:57:31]:
When you get old enough though, do watch it because it's awesome.

Mikah Sargent [00:57:35]:
I was gonna say, the way you said, of course they did, you, you went very New York there. Of course. Uh, which I loved. Um, so then we get to, uh, them studying a planet that Grace calls Adrian because of Rocky.

Joe Esposito [00:57:51]:
Hahaha.

Mikah Sargent [00:57:52]:
Uh, Tau Ceti e. And They look and they see that the Petrova line is full of something that— it's an astrophage phage, which is why— I don't know why they didn't call it like— I don't know, never mind. I couldn't think of anything quick enough. So Rocky shares fuel so that Grace— Rocky says, hey, I'm going to share my fuel with you. You can get home. And they end up working out a way to get a sample of the fuel— or no, excuse me, of the astrophage phage in order to try to—

Timothy Ingalls [00:58:22]:
Cure it.

Mikah Sargent [00:58:23]:
figure out, um, you know, what it is, what it does, how it works. They do have a, a little run-in though. Um, there's a leak that sends the ship spinning. Grace gets knocked out. And this is a tearjerker moment because Rocky breaks out of his own protective bubble, which means that he's in an environment— you know, this is You know blobfish? Blobfish get a bad rap because blobfish are called blobfish because they look blobby. But it— unless— look, this could be disproven now and probably is, but it's my understanding that the reason why blobfish look the way they do is because they normally exist at very pressurized environments where they're not blobby, but they come to the surface and they blob out. They're not like made to exist in our And so I just kept thinking about how sad it is for Blobfish as Rocky breaks out of this protective bubble where he's got, like, much more pressure. And I'm like, no, he's blobbing himself to protect him.

Mikah Sargent [00:59:28]:
It's so sweet. Yeah, I— it's so emotional and so wonderful. And I think they do a great job in both places, like the sacrifices that are made. By both places, I mean book and film. Of course, though, in the book, my God, Jammerbee, you can attest to it is a really long grind of trying to collect the sample and figure out how to collect the sample. And here it's like a minute of work and then there's a disaster. They end up calling the, the, the astrophage phage Taumiba. and, um, Grace works on it while Rocky is out of commission.

Mikah Sargent [01:00:14]:
Um, not sure in the film if he's alive or not, but then ends up feeling like, okay, yeah, he is. Uh, and they have to figure out how to get the Talmiba, uh, to survive because it turns out that nitrogen kills Talmiba, and there's a lot of nitrogen in our atmosphere. Um, and in many of the atmospheres on planets near Earth, including Venus. And well, Rocky ends up waking, and I can't remember this again, Jammerbee, if it's in the book or in the film or in both places, but at least in one of them, Rocky tells Grace that, you almost killed me. I think it was the book because I don't remember that happening in the film. Do either of you?

Joe Esposito [01:01:04]:
No.

Mikah Sargent [01:01:05]:
Did he say it?

Joe Esposito [01:01:05]:
Okay. I remember him saying that in the movie.

Mikah Sargent [01:01:08]:
So he basically—

Timothy Ingalls [01:01:09]:
in the—

Mikah Sargent [01:01:10]:
then in the book, if that's where it happens, um, Grace keeps seeing this like crust, uh, that seems like it's, uh, the body trying to like, uh, expel bad, um, cells or whatever. And, um, so Grace, trying to do something to help his friend who just helped him, keeps clearing this cruft, uh, from Rocky. And it turns out that Rocky was basically scabbing over, and every time Grace was removing this cruft, this crust, it was prolonging the period and causing, like, more bleeding, so to speak. Um, and so, as— yeah, as Gemma B says, if you reread that scene, it is so intense. You're like, no, don't do it! Um, but yeah, that is, is a pretty wild thing because, again, I could see myself making a mistake like that. I'd have a lot of guilt and sadness about he just sacrificed his life. I'm going to do whatever I can. I'll stay awake.

Mikah Sargent [01:02:04]:
I'll watch Rocky sleep. I'll do whatever. And then you come to find out, oh, you were actually doing damage because you were not making the right choice and not thinking clearly. So, yeah, I think a fascinating part. Let's see.

Joe Esposito [01:02:21]:
I know I didn't do that in the movie, though. I think that would have been a little much for people who are already Upset that Rocky was harmed, just saved, because you see all the gas coming out of him. And then to have it where, oh, and you were ripping off the scabs and making me, uh, have miserable pain. Again, uh, let's not make it into Hellraiser.

Mikah Sargent [01:02:38]:
Yeah.

Joe Esposito [01:02:38]:
So it's fine if we skip over that and just have Rocky come back and everybody's happy again, because we had— that's the only part where, kind of like what Timmy was talking about earlier, I think they jumped from him recovering to being fine really fast. Which is fine. I don't need miserable, like Rocky trying to stand up and falling down like a baby cow type of stuff. But I felt like they went from him tapping on the thing to, hey, how's it going, Grace? Let's get back to work really quick. Yeah, but I'd rather have that than him ripping scabs off his body for 2 or 3 days straight and then him wake up and be like, yeah, I was screaming inside.

Mikah Sargent [01:03:11]:
Thanks.

Joe Esposito [01:03:12]:
Okay, let's fix the problem.

Mikah Sargent [01:03:14]:
That's a little bit like, uh, Jurassic Bark, the, the knife twist at the end that you were talking about before. It's like, come on, do we have to keep hurting? Um, all right. All right, so moving along then, they make this Taumiba, or they work together to try to figure out how to make Taumiba that can survive, and so they speed up the process basically of evolution and breeding. I guess it's not technically evolution, it's selective breeding, to breed out too much nitrogen sensitivity and are successful in doing so. So before they part, Rocky ends up giving Grace an Eridian-style suit, uh, lets him step inside Blip A. So he gets to— and I love that, getting to see what the Blip A looks like. Um, we finally see that, uh, uh, we finally get the flashback and the reveal about Grace. Um, it turns out that the original crew that was meant to go on the ship.

Mikah Sargent [01:04:23]:
Uh, this is similar in both, uh, places, this idea that people can end up kind of, uh, falling for each other and how that can lead to some issues because people weren't supposed to be in the same place at the same time for this specific reason, and there was always backup. The original science crew died in a lab accident. Uh, Strutt asks Grace to go, but in asking him, it's not really asking him, just hoping that he'll say yes. He refuses. Turns out he is revealed to be a bit of a, uh, well, he, he thinks himself a coward. I'm not going to call him a coward because I don't know what I would do in that situation. I want to believe that I would go, but I honestly don't know. Um, and so she decides to drug him and load him onto the ship.

Mikah Sargent [01:05:09]:
So Grace was not the volunteer hero and was instead a man forced out into space And the way that he's drugged, um, it turns out that the amnesia he's experiencing— that's the first time I've said amnesia like that— uh, the, the— what he's experiencing is not just, oh, I'm waking up and I'm, uh, disoriented, but that it was— I don't remember if they say that in the film either, but it's, um— Okay, so in the books, it's actually a special form of, quote unquote, truth serum that the French government develops that gives them— it, up to this point, had given them the ability to interrogate people with enhanced techniques, but have them forget that they had been interrogated with enhanced techniques. So it's a short-term amnesia. And the point was to make it so that when Grace woke up, he would get injected with the— that drug. And so for a long enough period of time, he wouldn't remember that he had been poisoned. put on board, and that would allow for him to just kind of come to terms with it and then learn later. And by that time, everything would have been done anyway. But that was in a world where everyone else survived as well, and he was just one part of it. Um, I liked that in the books and kind of wanted that to be part of the film, but maybe they thought it was already enough that she was drugging him to load him onto the ship, and they didn't also want to say that he was— uh, and maybe they're like, well, we don't want to attack the French.

Mikah Sargent [01:06:42]:
I don't know. But anyway, they didn't do that. Um, In the books though, yeah, Grace doesn't enter the Blip A. And so when that happened in the film, I was so happy to get to see inside of the Blip A. It was amazing. And let's see, the karaoke scene. You remember that Strada's singing Sign of the Times. Well, it turns out that Ryan Gosling had heard Hewler singing to herself And, like, on set.

Mikah Sargent [01:07:13]:
And so he's like, hey, what if you did a karaoke thing? And she said, I'll do it, but only if I get to pick the song. And Hueller decided she wanted Sign of the Times. And the day after— like, the rights to it came in super late, and so they had to kind of just do it quickly, which meant that the other actors didn't know what she was going to sing. And so they were like— those were all real responses as well. Um, last but not least, uh, can I say— Yeah, please.

Joe Esposito [01:07:50]:
I hate the drugging him thing. I, I really— that's the one part of this movie I cannot stand, is that whole drugging him, forcing him on the thing. Uh, even though I, I get The fact that they didn't show anything of them showing him, I don't know, pictures of the kids he taught and saying, these children are all going to die. Like, there's ways you probably could have talked him into it. To jump straight to, we're forcing you on there, which also, if we're gonna get scientific about it, they had no way to know if his reaction to the drug would be what they expected.

Timothy Ingalls [01:08:23]:
Yes.

Joe Esposito [01:08:23]:
They didn't know if it was gonna cause a problem when he woke up.

Mikah Sargent [01:08:25]:
Right.

Joe Esposito [01:08:25]:
He could have fallen out and had a hematoma or hit his head and killed himself. It's the one part of this movie that is outright awful, uh, even though I love the fact that the explosion seems to reference Contact because they're out near satellite dishes and there's an explosion in Contact that forces the second crew to go as well. So I kind of like the whole thing there, but the, the drugging him against his will is miserable. I mean, it made me want her to be dead when we finally followed up later. It's like, don't do that. And then Carl's like, you're gonna be great, buddy. F you, Carl. Yeah, you're supposed to be my pal.

Joe Esposito [01:09:00]:
What is this?

Timothy Ingalls [01:09:02]:
That was one of my most infuriating parts of the movie. The entire time I was watching that scene and I'm like, well, apparently these people haven't heard of consent. Yeah, yeah, it was just so infuriating watching that scene. Again, I understand because, you know, more or less the world's gonna end and if we don't do this, you know, we have zero chance.

Joe Esposito [01:09:23]:
in the next week, you know what I mean? If it was really imminent, like, okay, it's about— we're gonna blow up in 2 days, we don't have a choice. But they had, what, 30 years before Mad Max happened or whatever, their food ran out. And this is what you're gonna do to somebody and hope that he doesn't decide, screw all of you, I'm gonna hang out in space and you can all burn? Because that might occur to me, especially with no memory.

Timothy Ingalls [01:09:46]:
Yeah.

Joe Esposito [01:09:46]:
How do you know I'm gonna wake up as a nice person again, assuming I was one to begin with?

Mikah Sargent [01:09:50]:
Exactly. And he thought about that in the book. He— when he comes to terms, when he realizes, he's like, I could just not do anything. But that—

Timothy Ingalls [01:09:58]:
go ahead. I could only imagine my video logs back to them not being polite in any way.

Mikah Sargent [01:10:05]:
Oh, 100%. I'd be so mean.

Timothy Ingalls [01:10:07]:
It's like, I'm doing this because, you know, save the world, but I have very strong opinions.

Mikah Sargent [01:10:17]:
So I think that it is— I think that for— I don't know, I didn't have it, I didn't look this up, but I wonder what Weir says about this specifically. I do think that it is a good, um, sort of understanding, uh, or, or commentary that, uh, there are times where human beings will lose their morals, and it is a horrifying thing that you don't want to happen. But I do think that it is in that way more realistic, um, because I do think that there are people who make these choices, and it sucks. It is also human, um, and it is a, I think, a sort of clear difference from the, the Iridians, right? They being, you know, we don't hear about that being part of their culture or what they would do. And, um, it also is a moment of, uh, like what happens whenever one person is put in charge of everything and gets to make those decisions. And yeah, uh, there's There's like a sense of powerlessness that is— it all ties together for me in terms of like the isolation and space and what controls you have out there and what controls you don't have. And I have to tell you, there's— yeah, there are like— there are a couple of things in any film or any movie, any film or any movie, any kind of media that are the things that I hate the most. And one of those is when someone is like, in a fight, they're wounded, and then the person hits them in that same wound.

Mikah Sargent [01:12:11]:
It makes me cringe so much. And, you know, you'll have, like, somebody who will have gotten cut, and then the bad guy comes along and, like, pushes their thumb into the wound and all of that stuff. So it's funny, whenever we're watching something, my partner, anytime that happens, he kind of looks over at me like, uh-oh, you know, are you okay? Kind of a thing. And the other thing is any form of forced feeding or forced drugs, or— I hate that kind of a thing. So with Stranger Things, like the most recent season, if either of you have seen it, uh, the mouth, um, tentacle thing that's like feeding them the whole time. Even now talking, like, I hate that kind of stuff. It really— ugh. So yeah, the— this drug thing pissed me off.

Mikah Sargent [01:12:57]:
Um, but I did feel like, especially in the books, it was Maybe he had more of an opportunity to kind of lay the foundation of some of the, like, there's something off here. Um, and so when Strahd was revealed to have done that, it didn't catch me off guard as much. Um, I was kind of like—

Joe Esposito [01:13:16]:
The governments, if I end up being this person, slowly roofie me and make me suggestible and talk me into it. I'm sure these drugs exist. Just slip it in my water. I'm not gonna taste it. And make me think this is It's a great idea. And then just walk me onto the ship, pushing me gently. Do not do this because I will hold a grudge. Italians hold grudges really well.

Joe Esposito [01:13:38]:
Just roofie me.

Mikah Sargent [01:13:39]:
It'll be fine. Lastly, of course, Grace is coming back to his— or is leaving now. Rocky's off to go to where he needs to go. Grace is off to where he needs to go. While he's on his ship, Grace, he discovers that the Talmiba have somehow, uh, broken free of their containment. And well, remember how we talked earlier about selective breeding? Um, if you are doing selective breeding to try to make, uh, Talmiba that are more resistant to nitrogen, and you do so in a container that is made of xenonite, then it is also possible that you will unfortunately, uh, breed Talmiba that can circumvent xenonite. And the problem with Talmiba escaping containment is that they are hungry, hungry hippos for, uh, astrophage. And you may recall that these ships' fuel source, uh, for both parties is made of of astrophage, or it uses astrophage as fuel.

Mikah Sargent [01:14:49]:
So, uh, Grace knows that Rocky's ship, whole ship, is made of xenonite, and that means that the, as the Talmiba will escape, eat, uh, Rocky's fuel, and Rocky will be stranded and not get to Arid, which means that not only will his best friend in this moment of time die, but also all of Arid will die. Uh, And so he has to decide, do I go home with the fuel I was given by Rocky and get to be with my people again? We've already sent probes. They can do their thing and get the knowledge back. Or do I turn around and save my best friend out here? And this is Grace's opportunity to make a drug-free choice. And he chooses not to be a coward, proving to himself and to all of us with tears in our eyes that he is, um, he, he's, he's, uh, not a— he's a hero. And, um, it's great. Uh, this is, of course, though, I think that, um, the, the, the book calls the probes John, Paul, George, and Ringo, and also he dedicates the book to the Beatles. Uh, the film calls them the, the probes the Beatles, and, uh, this is the part where they have the soundtrack from the Beatles play in.

Mikah Sargent [01:16:18]:
Um, lastly, we get to see on Earth where Strat's, uh, Strat's team is using Taamiba to save the sun. We do see her one last time. Um, I was hoping that she was going to be locked away somewhere and like we'd get to have that little bit of relief. Um, Now, this is interesting. I didn't know this. Maybe the two of you did. But if you see Strahd's tattoo, it is a V with a line through it. And that says, according to the creators of the show, it signals that she was arrested and tried offscreen, that she got life without parole, but then— that she escaped into hiding.

Joe Esposito [01:17:07]:
What?

Mikah Sargent [01:17:07]:
I don't know how anyone's supposed to know that. Um, but apparently, like, Weir came up with this idea of, uh—

Joe Esposito [01:17:15]:
This is a bizarre detail.

Mikah Sargent [01:17:17]:
Yeah.

Joe Esposito [01:17:17]:
What does this have to do with anything? I mean, it's great, but what is it— what does it relate to the story?

Mikah Sargent [01:17:22]:
Because she did that—

Timothy Ingalls [01:17:23]:
Do a lot of people in Argentina have older family members that had tattoos like that?

Mikah Sargent [01:17:30]:
Maybe because it's— so I guess it's French.

Timothy Ingalls [01:17:33]:
I didn't get that detail at all.

Mikah Sargent [01:17:37]:
No, I didn't either. So, um, it says that, uh, because the reason why that is important is like, did she get her justice? In the book, she talks about how she's pretty sure that she's going to be tried, like, because he asks her like, what do you, what do you think is going to happen to you after this? And, um, this is before he gets drugged and everything. And this is just when she's making all of these decisions. And it's, you know, she— And then the book, there's also this whole story about how they end up stealing essentially every single work of media and content and everything from all of— like, everything copyrighted is pulled into this project. And so there are all these lawsuits that are going on, and that's because they're trying to train their AI essentially to be good at helping them and the medical robot especially. And so he's like, you know, you're making these decisions. Are you worried that there are going to be more lawsuits? And she's like, yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm going to go to jail. And then she does that.

Mikah Sargent [01:18:45]:
And so I think the payoff is some level of her getting in trouble for having done it. Uh, so I guess the V symbol stands for the French word— it's V-I-E. I'm not going to pronounce French because then— yeah, I'm not doing that.

Timothy Ingalls [01:19:02]:
It means life.

Mikah Sargent [01:19:04]:
And then the line through it signifies life without parole. Phil Lord and Christopher Miller, who are the directors, were working with the author Andy Weir and confirmed that the tattoo tells the story of that, that after Grace left for space They— the global governments turn on her and put her on trial and then sentence her to life in a French prison without parole. But of course, she must have escaped because she's on this boat somewhere. So, yeah, there you go.

Timothy Ingalls [01:19:37]:
Wild.

Joe Esposito [01:19:37]:
That's a very weird, wild substory that doesn't seem to add anything but is fascinating nonetheless.

Timothy Ingalls [01:19:44]:
Extended cut.

Joe Esposito [01:19:45]:
Yeah, maybe.

Mikah Sargent [01:19:46]:
Yeah, for real.

Joe Esposito [01:19:47]:
I mean, they got a prison break sequence for 30 minutes with her just running around singing karaoke and like cutting bars with a file and a cake. I'll watch it. I just don't know what has to do with anything, but okay.

Mikah Sargent [01:19:58]:
Yeah. And then the other part is, um, it's a little bit of fan service for people who read the book. She's on that ship out by the ice because in the book one of the ways that they're trying to extend the 30 years is they They've realized that if they break up ice at the ice caps, it will release methane into the environment, into the atmosphere. And by releasing methane into the atmosphere, it actually slows the cooling of the planet. And remember, that's part of the problem that we have with global warming, is the methane being released into the atmosphere. So they basically are trying to induce global warming when the planet gets cooler because of the sun, uh, you know, reduced light. Um, so yeah, that's what I think in the opening.

Joe Esposito [01:20:50]:
Why don't they just let all the coal companies do whatever they want then, and this problem will solve itself in like a decade? We'll be fine. You know, I was like, this is possible, right? So just let these people go crazy.

Timothy Ingalls [01:21:01]:
Or get a lot more cows.

Mikah Sargent [01:21:02]:
Yeah, breed cows out the wazoo.

Timothy Ingalls [01:21:05]:
Uh, don't kill them, just, just let them Let them roam freely all over the planet wherever they can.

Joe Esposito [01:21:09]:
Yeah, I'll do it.

Mikah Sargent [01:21:11]:
Like chickens.

Timothy Ingalls [01:21:11]:
They'll produce a lot of methane.

Mikah Sargent [01:21:14]:
Um, years later—

Timothy Ingalls [01:21:14]:
It's a pet cow.

Mikah Sargent [01:21:16]:
Years later, we see Grace living in— it's much better, I think, in the film. He's got like this whole place, whereas in the book, again, if I remember correctly, it's not as elaborate. Uh, he's got this Earth-like dome on Arrid where he's teaching science. As he does in the book, to a class of Iridian kids. Rocky tells him the engineers can get the Hail Mary ready to go home if he wants to, and Grace says he'll think about it. It is a bit different because in the book it is implied that Grace has little desire to return to Earth, which I don't blame him, but the film kind of makes it a little bit more open. Maybe he'll go back. Uh, I think that I lean more into the book's idea that it's like, no, I—

Timothy Ingalls [01:22:08]:
On my second watching, that was kind of more my thought. Maybe he just doesn't want to go back. Maybe this is his way of, um, telling them off instead of, you know, I did the work, you, you know, I didn't feel welcomed, or, you know, between the, uh, start of the movie where he was in essence kicked out of the scientific community, and then, you know, being forced to do this thing that he didn't really— didn't want to do, he maybe he just feels more welcome and more, you know, more happy there, and just kind of like, nope, don't want to go back to that. New life, new experience. So I, I could see that as well.

Joe Esposito [01:22:51]:
I felt like they were trying up the drug scene, to almost have some kind of background romance between him and Strat when he's watching her sing and when he's talking to her. And if they hadn't done the terrible drug sequence that we all hate, then maybe you'd say, well, you know, he got out of a breakup, he's ready to love again, he's going to go back and see if he can make something work there. But especially with what this movie shows us, why would you go back? You have students here, you have an appreciative world that hasn't drugged you and taken advantage of you. you. Stay there with your new pal. You have a great new pal who you can learn stuff from and teach, and teach relativity to. It's a new concept they don't understand that you can expand on for them. Why would you go back to this planet that has screwed you over? It's an abusive relationship.

Joe Esposito [01:23:36]:
Leave Earth. You saved them. Good for you. Stay, uh, on Arid. They, they're gonna appreciate you more. Don't go back, Grace. Stay where you are. You got a nice house.

Joe Esposito [01:23:45]:
Most people on Earth don't got that.

Timothy Ingalls [01:23:46]:
Stay where In the, in the chat, Jammerbee mentioned in the book he was struggling with the gravity. The physical gravity or the gravity of the situation?

Mikah Sargent [01:23:55]:
Yeah, so that's right. In, um, in the book, his— he's basically got like advanced arthritis or is on his way to advanced arthritis because he— and like bone issues because of the stronger gravity on that planet. And so that is one reason for him to go back. It would be much— he could live potentially longer back on Earth than he would on, uh, Arid. But they chose to kind of leave that out of the film. And also, I would like to believe that they could, you know, figure out a way to do the centrifugal force thing again and give him his own form of gravity if he needed it.

Joe Esposito [01:24:34]:
These people built a giant ship. They could build him an exoskeleton. They'll figure it out. They'll put a harness on him. He'll be fine. If arthritis is the only problem he's got, he'll get They don't have bioscanners. That's what I'm saying. This is a solvable problem.

Joe Esposito [01:24:49]:
Don't go back, Grace. Stay where you are. You'll have a better life.

Mikah Sargent [01:24:54]:
Um, to round things out, uh, the— there were a couple of critics who said this is one of the rare cases where the film is better than the book. One critic said that it is quite a bit better than the book. I disagree. I think that they're both incredible. And that I don't think that for me the film is better, uh, but it is certainly a fantastic film. And I, I said it's now my favorite film. Um, it is— I wanted to say, I can't remember who has this. I think it's Amazon Prime.

Mikah Sargent [01:25:32]:
I guess it would have to be because it's MGM. Um, has a Watch Rocky Sleep, uh, thing, and it's sort of like one of those fireplace, um, background streaming video things, but you just see Rocky sleeping and there's music playing. We didn't talk about that that much, or maybe even at all, but essentially for Iridians, when they sleep, it is much more unconscious than it is for humans, such that once sleep starts, they don't wake up again until their bodies feel that they have done the sleep that they need to do. Which I kind of wish was— Maybe, maybe if I could have a switch inside I could go, okay, I've got that version turned, the Iridian version, and then I just don't sleep until it's time to wake up. So because of that, they have to have their friends, their, you know, companions, whomever is around them, watch them while they sleep. And that ends up being part of their relationship in the film and in the book, uh, is Rocky offering to watch Grace while he sleeps, and then Grace kind of explaining that that's not how it works for humans. Um, Um, and one of the things that also I liked, uh, in the book that I wish came up more in the movie was as they— the, the, the sociology of it— as they're getting to know each other better, there were occasionally times where, um, cultural differences for them were just hard to sort of lock into and understand. And so they would have this Yeah.

Mikah Sargent [01:27:06]:
It's not really a code phrase, but it's just enough to say, it's a human thing, or, it's an Iridian thing, and then the other person would go, oh, okay, fine. And I really like that because I think that that's something that can be important in human relationships as well. You've got some sort of call to, and you say the keyword. It's like a safe word, essentially. And you say that, and then the other person goes, got it, okay, good to go.

Joe Esposito [01:27:31]:
good.

Timothy Ingalls [01:27:31]:
No more probing, no more, uh, so, so in essence, it's the way of saying it's— I'm not being weird, this is a cultural thing.

Mikah Sargent [01:27:39]:
Yes, exactly.

Joe Esposito [01:27:41]:
Yeah.

Mikah Sargent [01:27:41]:
And that, like, empathy, I think, was really rewarding to see play out. Um, all right, so to round this out, I'd just love to hear y'all's thoughts on, um, the film as a whole. Uh, if either of you have any interest in reading the book after— now after you have watched it. And lastly, if you think it should have a sequel and what you'd want the sequel to be about. I love that face that you made, Timothy, because I also was like, sequel? But it has come up a lot in online discussions. So let's start with you, Timothy. What'd you think? Would you— do you want to read the book? And sequel, yes or no?

Timothy Ingalls [01:28:27]:
So I think we talked about this a little bit before. The movie did start a little bit slow, but once it got going, it got good. And I did end up really enjoying the movie other than the one scene that we've mentioned. The first time I watched it, I actually watched it with my spouse and we actually both really enjoyed it. We thought it was much better than we were expecting. So it's probably a movie I'll watch again. And yes, I'll probably You know, listen to the audiobook at some point in time. I don't know about a sequel.

Joe Esposito [01:28:59]:
Yeah, I don't know why you would make a sequel to this. I don't see what the point is. It would just— I can't imagine. I mean, maybe Andy Weir comes up with an idea and it works, but it feels like a perfectly formed story with a good beginning, middle, and ending. I don't know what more we need out of this that wouldn't end up diluting diluting what we already have. Uh, so I, I'm always kind of averse to sequels unless the story clearly sets up a reason for it. Uh, as far as the book, I would probably read it. I'm not in a race to read it.

Joe Esposito [01:29:32]:
I'm not, you know, oh, I have to read it right now. But if there's a lull where I have something that I don't have anything else, this would probably be a, a fun read to, to go through. I wouldn't listen to the audiobook because I think it would conflict with the movie now, like the voice and everything. So I'd rather read it so I can just hear, 'cause I really like the voice of Rocky. So I would stick with that. So I would probably read, read it as opposed to listen to it. But yeah, I would— no on a sequel. Yes, I would probably actually read the book.

Joe Esposito [01:30:01]:
So nice.

Mikah Sargent [01:30:02]:
For me, I also don't want a sequel. I have no interest in a sequel. Don't know what the sequel would be about that would be rewarding, frankly. And as far as, well, the book, I read the book, so I love the book and I think other people should read it. And yeah, y'all know how I feel about this being my favorite film. So I do believe— wait, I think— can I do that invite? Oh, I thought there was a way for me to like bring in a guest. Oh yeah, I can.

Joe Esposito [01:30:38]:
Hold on.

Mikah Sargent [01:30:38]:
I'm about to turn you back Okay, let's see.

Timothy Ingalls [01:30:41]:
There we go.

Mikah Sargent [01:30:41]:
Yeah, tell us, tell us your final take there.

Timothy Ingalls [01:30:45]:
Don't know what happened. Bluetooth is weird. Um, yeah, I don't know if I'd want a sequel. I don't know what I'd want to see, um, past the— past what was, was covered. I mean, could be interesting to see, you know, the life on, you know, the planet. Could be interesting to see the process of them, uh, kind of healing the sun, but I don't know if I necessarily, you know, need to see that.

Mikah Sargent [01:31:15]:
Yeah, that's, that's, uh, I think how, how a lot of us are feeling as well.

Timothy Ingalls [01:31:20]:
Maybe like a miniseries or something for if there was a sequel, not a full movie.

Mikah Sargent [01:31:25]:
I could do a miniseries that's just about the Iridians. That'd be kind of cool.

Timothy Ingalls [01:31:29]:
It would be fun to see how they work. Where they cut back and forth in different episodes.

Joe Esposito [01:31:32]:
You remember the little Trek shorts they did for Discovery? I wouldn't mind seeing that with Rocky and Grace, like, trying to figure out lesson plans. And they're just little fun one-off things where they're trying to figure it out and they're joking with each other, and it doesn't really mean anything. It's just a fun thing to see the puppet and Ryan Gosling again and see them interacting, and that's it. Otherwise, it's just a beautiful ending. Let it end the way it does. Let your imagination carry you on from there. That's a great power we have. is to make up our own stories based on what we're given.

Joe Esposito [01:32:00]:
We don't need everything explained from beginning to end with a prequel, sequel, and then 3 miniseries to explain every character's backstory. Mystery's good. Let us have a little mystery and things that we can imagine ourselves.

Mikah Sargent [01:32:13]:
All right, mystery it is. No, uh, I want to thank you all out there for joining us here for Club Twit Media Club. Love to get to bring this show to you. every once in a blue moon. Next, we, as part of media— as part of the Media Club umbrella, are going to be doing Stacy's Book Club. We'll have more about when that is. It's looking like it's going to be There Is No Antimemetics Division by Quantum, Q-U-A-N-T-U-M. I'm looking forward to that if that ends up being the book.

Mikah Sargent [01:32:50]:
If it's not, we'll, you know, we'll let you know for sure. Uh, so we just gotta— we gotta get in touch with, uh, Stacy to lock everything in. Um, so be on the lookout for that in Club Twit. Uh, of course, thank you for being members. Tell your friends, tell your family, uh, and tell your enemies. Uh, it would be amaze, amaze, amaze if you joined us— if they joined us as well in the club. Um, gentlemen, thank you so much for being here again with me this month. It's always a pleasure to get to chat with you two.

Mikah Sargent [01:33:22]:
Uh, do either of you have anything you want to, to pitch or plug? Uh, I, I, that's the question I usually ask at the end. So—

Joe Esposito [01:33:32]:
If you'd like to see my artwork, go to ozoneartfoundry.com and you can see the things I scribble. Other than that, I'm just delighted I get to come and talk about movies in any way that I can. Thank you for having the club and doing stuff and hosting this stuff and putting up with me just ranting on and on and on about nonsensical things all the time. So thanks everybody for putting up with me.

Mikah Sargent [01:33:54]:
And Timothy, thank you for being here as well. Uh, I appreciate it. We appreciate it and, uh, love your, your takes too.

Timothy Ingalls [01:34:03]:
Oh, these events are always a lot of fun.

Mikah Sargent [01:34:06]:
Good. I'm glad, I'm glad that you enjoy them. I certainly do. Um, and we'll be back in the future. But now it is time to say goodbye to all of you. And now I'm going to push the right buttons by following along with what— oh wait, Anthony says he's back. Are you still back? If so, Anthony's going to quit the event.

Timothy Ingalls [01:34:30]:
Yay!

Mikah Sargent [01:34:30]:
Okay, Anthony's doing it. Bye, everybody!