Tech News Weekly 436 Transcript

Please be advised that this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word-for-word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-free version of the show.

Mikah Sargent [00:00:00]:
Coming up on Tech News Weekly, Abrar Al-Heeti of CNET is here. We talk about the Oscars changing its rules with AI. I also talk about Apple's upcoming settlement over Siri and AI. Then Andrew Langston of CNET joins us to talk about tech making him a grumpy old man. Well, and also just tech being troublesome before I talk about a ban on cell phones in schools and the results therein. Stay tuned for this episode of Tech News Weekly.

Mikah Sargent [00:00:42]:
This is Tech News Weekly, episode 436 with Al-Heeti and me, Mikah Sargent. Recorded Thursday, May 7, 2026: What 40,000 Schools Tell Us About Phone Bans. Hello and welcome to Tech News Weekly, the show where every week we talk to and about the people making and breaking that tech. I am your host, Mikah Sargent, and I am joined across this very vast Internet. I don't know why I'm doing it as a song, but I am by the wonderful Abrar Al-Heeti. Hello, Abrar.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:01:18]:
Hello. I wish I had an operatic voice to, like, do it right back at you, but good to be here. I'm just gonna keep it simple. Sorry to kill the vibe.

Mikah Sargent [00:01:24]:
Yeah, no, no, you never kill a vibe. You are the vibe. And we're so happy that you're here. Now for people who are tuning in for the first time, the part of the show where we. Oh, I should say also welcome. Please take your shoes off at the door, there's sparkling water in the fridge, et cetera, et cetera. But anyway, we love to talk about our stories of the week. These are the stories that we think are interesting and want to share with all of you and also get to chat with each other about them.

Mikah Sargent [00:01:54]:
So, Abrar, tell us about your story of the week.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:01:57]:
I wanted to talk about the Oscars new AI Rules. I feel like this has been such a big topic of conversation over the last several days because we've been having all these very pertinent conversations about AI and art and what constitute art and what doesn't and what should be considered for awards. And I think this has, you know, very much been the case in the. In the movie industry. Right. We've. We've heard about some. Some uses of AI that might make people wary of what's to come.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:02:23]:
There's a lot of uncertainty and doom, but then there's also this idea of, okay, but what technologies do we embrace? Right? There are other technologies that have been embraced and are now a cornerstone of so Many of the films that we watch and enjoy. So you might remember when that Netflix movie, the Eternaut, that I probably mispronounced that, but had that AI generated scene. Recently we saw a trailer for as Deep as the Grave which has a completely AI generated recreation of Val Kilmer, which sparked a lot of controversy, even though he had, you know, created an AI version of his voice before he died. Other actors, Matthew McConaughey, Michael Caine, have also worked to clone their voices in AI. Right. So there's all this movement towards using AI in films in different capacities, but the industry is very much still working out the nuances. And now the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences has laid out some new rules regarding what qualifies for an Oscar and what doesn't. So there were many rules that they listed, but two related to AI that have really been generating the most buzz.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:03:25]:
So I'll read them the first one. In the acting category, only roles credited in the film's legal billing and demonstrably performed by humans with their consent will be considered eligible. Ok, that's number one in terms of acting. No AI actors, no Tilly Norwood here. Okay? She's not welcome. And then in the writing categories, the rules codify that screenplays must be human authored to be eligible. So, you know, you're not just going to generate an entire screenplay in ChatGPT and then call it a day, right? There needs to be a human behind this. And to be clear, this doesn't mean that AI cannot be used in any part of the process.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:04:03]:
And that's the really critical element here. I think that would actually be quite unrealistic if they banned it out, right, because it's already being implemented in various areas. You know, some people are using it to analyze scripts and make sure everything is flowing correctly, generating scenes like I mentioned earlier. So with things like vfx, for example, like you could technically still use AI in that process. You know, this is, this is just targeting AI actors and screenplays. And so, you know, then that raises other questions. Like, okay, so does an AI generated song qualify for a category like Best Song? Right? Like, does that get to compete with human written and performed numbers? And then there's also this note that the AI will, or the Academy will quote, take into account the. Wow, let me try that again and learn how to speak.

Mikah Sargent [00:04:53]:
Okay?

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:04:53]:
The Academy will quote, take into account the degree to which a human was at the heart of the creative authorship. So then they can ask for more information about how generative AI was used. And so it still kind of leaves a lot of wiggle room here. Right. So, like, we know there are certain categories. What some people have flagged is, okay, these are categories where AI was least likely to win anyway. We don't really see, you know, AI actors actually popping into these Hollywood blockbusters. Right.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:05:21]:
And then the other piece of it is screenwriting could still. Or I could still be used in screenwriting. Right. But to what capacity? What if. What if somebody put something in the machine and then tweaked it or, you know, how much can I be involved in that process? So. And then the other side of that argument, of course, as you're going to have with any conversation about AI is okay, well, this just feels like you're not embracing the technology. So people are, are. There are strong opinions on each side here.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:05:47]:
But I would love to know what your thoughts were because you mentioned you kind of like had some, some thoughts and questions too. And I'd love to know kind of what degree you think is a healthy, comfortable amount, if any, for AI to be used in a film that could be nominated for an Oscar.

Mikah Sargent [00:06:03]:
Yeah, I think there's a lot of confusion that of course, we see this play out all the time, right. That there are headlines and the headlines are all that people have time to read or choose to read. And it misses a lot of the nuance. And so the thing that I have heard people saying and had to kind of go, there's a little bit more to it than that is Oscar says banned AI. That's not what has. Like, AI is not banned across the board. It's. There's so much more.

Mikah Sargent [00:06:41]:
More depth to this. Because the fact is, as you said, AI can still be used in vfx and AI has been used in VFX for years, even before generative AI became what it is today. The process for de. Aging a person. Process for. I mean, think back to early Disney animated films where they would have a lead artist who would draw sort of the, you know, the character in one place and then the character in the place that they're trying to get to. And then you would have 5 or 6 lower paid artists who would fill in the blanks there. And so the keyframe artist was the one that was more talented and well, in theory, more talented, probably just older and was able to.

Mikah Sargent [00:07:42]:
To do that part. And then everything else was filled in. And now a lot of that interpolation has been something that can be done by the computer. And we just had a different name for it at the time and it didn't have the stigma that it has now. So, like, when I hear. When I have heard people saying, you know, the Oscars has banned AI, I'm like, oh, man. Like, you have to stop for a moment and think about what you're. And how unlikely it is that that's the case.

Mikah Sargent [00:08:13]:
Now moving to this idea of it being, you know, with their consent versus without the consent. And I, of course, feel like screenplays that are getting awards should be. These are awards that humans have created for humans. And I think that that's okay, that we are setting rules on that. That said, there's a lot of gray area, which in a perfect world where humans and, well, non humans, where no one has bias, then that's great. But my immediate thought was, what about the politics? And I don't mean the traditional politics, of course, of government and everything involved there, but the politics, as in the Greased Palms and the conversations and whatnot that could play into this, where maybe if there's one film that is controversial or whatever, then it gets more scrutiny. And the way that they define what AI use is is different from how they. I have so many questions about what this process will entail.

Mikah Sargent [00:09:44]:
How much of it is really just honor system. What. What. What would require these. These judges or whomever is reviewing this? What would require an actual review of the process to make it like. I'm sure you have dozens of questions as well, and I think that it's good that they're doing this, and I'm sure that part of it is, like, we have to announce this as quick as we can so that the films that are in process right now are able to, you know, follow these new rules. But I do think that there was perhaps room for clearer delineations, I guess, that. That.

Mikah Sargent [00:10:36]:
That help to explain what's going on here. Yeah, I mean, you know, you see Tilly Norwood, and you're like, we're a long way off from.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:10:47]:
Thank God.

Mikah Sargent [00:10:47]:
This being. Yeah. From this being anything near that. And I do think that there's room for both kinds of media, which I know is a bit of a controversial thing to say, but I think that the most important thing is that we as humans have the choice and the, you know, the knowledge of what's going on. In the same way that. Like, GMOs, which. That's a whole different thing, because it's not. It's.

Mikah Sargent [00:11:18]:
GMOs are fine, I feel. GMOs are fine. GMOs are good. GMOs. Fine. Good. Whatever. But some people choose to avoid them.

Mikah Sargent [00:11:26]:
And there's labeling for it. I mean, we've had labeling for religious reasons on food packaging for my gluten intolerance. So, yeah, let's do the gluten free, you know, film versus the AI generated film. And I'm not saying that that needs to have an award show, even the AI stuff. But, yeah, I mean, I think that it's going to exist. And so what do you know? That part is like, I think it's gonna exist. It's probably going to happen. But I'm glad that we're setting rules now.

Mikah Sargent [00:12:04]:
I just wish those rules were clearer. You did a great job of kind of opening us up to the topic. I'd love to hear your thoughts now on how you feel. And I also want to know if you're like an award show person as well.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:12:16]:
Yeah, well, first of all, I love every point you brought up. I am an award show person. I also don't have cap, so I'm also really excited for the Academy Awards to be on YouTube in a couple of years. It's going to be so much easier for some of us. But. But yeah, I love award shows. And. And so this was something that I was like, very.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:12:33]:
My curiosity was very much piqued by this. But you bring up a really great point, which was also a conversation I had yesterday with somebody who was like, well, can't people just enjoy what they want to enjoy? Like, what if somebody likes something that's AI generated? And I don't know about you, my friends have been showing me. I got off TikTok recently, but these videos are also on Instagram if you want it. All the, like, AI dramas, like AI Cats and like, AI fruits. Have you seen these videos? This is like a whole world that I am not exposed to. So fruits that are, like, cheating on each other and then like, they, like, there's like drama between them and then there's like the same thing with like, the cats. They. There's like a lot of cat drama or like cat chefs.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:13:13]:
And then like, it's like a whole genre of just completely generated dramas on. On social media. And my friends love these things. Okay. Like, this is like, this is their joy when they go on social media. It is my cup of tea. And that's okay, right?

Mikah Sargent [00:13:28]:
Like, oh, they're kind of horrifying.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:13:30]:
You find this stuff?

Mikah Sargent [00:13:31]:
Yeah, I found the watermelon and the strawberry. I. Let me see if I can.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:13:35]:
Strawberry? Yeah.

Mikah Sargent [00:13:37]:
Jump scare. Let me see. I've got to share this to the chat.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:13:44]:
You can all have an understanding. If you're not already on this algorithm, this will open your eyes.

Mikah Sargent [00:13:48]:
I was going to say now you're about to enter a new world, and I don't know if you want to be there, but.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:13:53]:
Yeah, do it at your own risk.

Mikah Sargent [00:13:55]:
Oh, my good. Okay. Kiwi baby's pretty cute.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:13:58]:
Oh. Oh. See? Yeah. See, this is how they get you. Right? Like you're watching that and you're like, oh, I can. I could do this.

Mikah Sargent [00:14:04]:
Yeah. But then the one I saw is literally like a couple's therapy session playing out here. Just like.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:14:12]:
Yeah, exactly. This is the one. My friend loves this one.

Mikah Sargent [00:14:15]:
Ms. Barry and Mr. Melon are hanging out, and he's like, why are you ignoring me? I don't need. I already have all of that in real life.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:14:25]:
Like, we like to. Yeah. Escape. But this is for some people, and it's gate, so maybe. I don't know if that will ever win an Oscar, but there are people who want that kind of content or are okay with it. So I think we're at a point where this is still relatively new. Although these guidelines coming out in 2026, I think is maybe a little bit later than I would have imagined, considering how long we've been talking about generative AI. But I think it's just going to evolve.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:14:55]:
I think this is a first step. And then as these things become more pertinent and pervasive, then we'. They'll probably revisit. And I think every year we'll see new updates to where this all stands.

Mikah Sargent [00:15:06]:
Yeah. Personally, for me, when it comes to that kind of a thing. Well, I don't know if it's that. That kind of a thing. When. Okay, let me. Let me back up, because there's a little bit of a confession, I guess, in a way, which is that perhaps one would feel that I would be completely opposed to the idea of, like, AI book generation or something. And in many ways, I am in the sense of.

Mikah Sargent [00:15:42]:
I think that, you know, human authors should. In fact, one of my dearest friends is an author, and I want him to be able to, you know, make money off of his books. There are specific situations where perhaps an author has lost interest in the work that they've done, or an author. This is the literal two situations. One where the author has not published the final book in the series for, you know, many, many years now, and now is not even being coy about maybe publishing in it one day. And then the other one is the. Is now. I've forgotten.

Mikah Sargent [00:16:24]:
It's A. What was the other category? So one is where the author. Oh, the author passed, unfortunately.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:16:29]:
Oh, yes.

Mikah Sargent [00:16:31]:
The author's daughters have been trying to find someone but can't. And it's been years and years and years, and it's kind of. So in those cases, for me, in the privacy of my own home, without making any money off of these things, there's a world in which I once. I want AI to be at the creative level enough that I could say, can we finally close the chapter in my brain on this by looking at this author's body of work and then coming up with a reasonable and interesting, you know, conclusion to everything? Yeah. And a. You know, I would be going into that with a. With the understanding that it is not the author, that it. And that also.

Mikah Sargent [00:17:17]:
That's just a completely selfish thing. But. And this is the part that I was really trying to touch on. I feel that there is a difference between a person making a choice for themselves. That they are. They are. It's just. It's you and the thing.

Mikah Sargent [00:17:35]:
Right. I wouldn't take that book and then put it online and go, I'm gonna sell this for five bucks. And you could. No.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:17:43]:
Yeah.

Mikah Sargent [00:17:43]:
And that's the difference. Right. I don't. The technology exists and it is available for use. And I try to be mindful about the, you know, the companies that I work with in that field and all that kind of stuff. And so then in that way, I think that there's room for something like that. That's where I was going with your friends kind of talking or whoever you said that was saying, like, isn't it okay if we just enjoy the thing that we enjoy? I do think that it is. I think it's all about sort of what your motivations are.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:18:24]:
Yes, totally.

Mikah Sargent [00:18:25]:
And what your impact is. And honestly, like, for me, if I did that made those two books. Well, not I, but the thing made those two books. And then the authors came out with their. Of course I'm still gonna get them because I wanna know, A, how they saw it ending, but B, how different it is from the thing that the AI created as well. So.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:18:46]:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I'll just note that you are a lot. You have much higher morals than most people by choosing not to sell stuff like that. And I wish everyone who approached it, approached it the way that you did, and the world would be a happier, more peaceful place and people could enjoy their, you know, their AI use without, you know, encouraging anybody's territory or monetizing it. But we can dream about that ideal world and, and AI behaving and you know, there's, there's a bright future out there, right?

Mikah Sargent [00:19:12]:
It's, it's a dream, certainly. We'll take a quick break before we come back with more. This is a sort of AI quibbles. An AI was it foibles part of the show. Back from the break and joined this week by Abrar Al-Heeti. We started the show by talking about Oscars rules and its limits on AI. There's another company that is dealing with a bit of an AI issue and it's Apple, which has agreed to pay $250 million, a drop in the hat for that company to settle class action lawsuits alleging it misled consumers about the AI capabilities of its iPhones. And if you bought certain models in a specific window, well, there's a check with your name on it.

Mikah Sargent [00:20:07]:
How big that check is will of course depend on how many other people have also said, I want that money. According to CNET and Queen Wong at the Los Angeles Times, the settlement covers people in the United States who bought an iPhone 16, an iPhone 16E, an iPhone 15 Pro, or an iPhone 15 Pro Max between June 10, 2024 and March 29, 2025. Payouts will start at $25 per device. Could climb as high as 90 $95 depending on how many people file claims. Here's what's at the heart of it, though. The Apple intelligence features Apple used to sell, particularly the upgraded, more conversational Siri, which never actually shipped on time and in some cases still haven't shipped at all. Apple denies any wrongdoing. Roughly 37 million devices are eligible, and there's a chance that many of the people listening to this will be part of that class as well.

Mikah Sargent [00:21:10]:
Now, the headline number, of course, is this $250 million, which for people who follow these tech companies and follow their financials, will go, oh, that's a very small amount, but otherwise might feel like it's, you know, a big fine. It's really not.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:21:27]:
Yeah.

Mikah Sargent [00:21:29]:
And honestly, the more telling number is 37 million because that's roughly how many US devices are eligible. According to the court filing referenced by the LA Times. You, if you are part of this class, will be notified by mail or email. And of course, it depends on how many claims roll in how much money you'll end up making. That said, there's still a Judge in the U.S. district Court of for the Northern District of California that has to approve the deal. As I pointed, or as I mentioned earlier, Apple has denied any wrongdoing and that's why this is a settlement. The company is, is saying it's going to stay focused on doing what we do best, delivering the most innovative products and services to our users.

Mikah Sargent [00:22:21]:
But honestly, I remember Bella Ramsey showing us all the new AI or the new Siri and of course Apple's ongoing promos of its, of its Apple intelligence features. Yeah, I, I have wanted more than anything else this, more aware Siri. This was the technology that, you know, I'd really been waiting for. This thing that I can trust to have or that I feel I can trust at least to have access to my contacts, my messages, all the stuff that I do day in and day out and have it act on that and perhaps make it it much easier for me to remember that. I need to remind someone that, you know, we have to leave tomorrow at five in the morning because our flight's at, you know, X time or whatever. That is very, very nice. And frankly due to the fact that some of these AI features did require a better processor than the devices that they may have had at the time, then there is, I feel, a legitimate ultimate argument that these devices were in part being sold on being more capable and more able to make use of of these, these AI features. I am curious to hear abrar a if you've had any yearning for a smarter Siri but then also kind of where you stand on, on this whole idea of, you know, Apple marketing AI and the smarter Siri and then not delivering yet.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:24:14]:
Yeah, I mean AI was such an. Especially Siri. In particular, smarter Siri was such a huge focus of the iPhone 16 launch. And so it does not surprise me that people feel like they were cheated out of all the features that they were promised. And yeah, Getting up to $95 back is great, but they spent like a thousand dollars on these phones. Right. So very justifiable to feel like you've, you know, a little, a little tricked is a strong word but you know, like you didn't get what you were promised. It's.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:24:45]:
I actually don't use, which is why my phone is not going crazy right now as I say that word. Sorry to anyone out there. It's. I don't use it because it's not great. And I think a lot of people feel that way. I mean even, you know, like the old school Google Assistant that's sitting behind me, that is not running Gemini is not very great either. So the thing that is great is Gemini. Right.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:25:09]:
So when I'm using an Android phone, it's really great to have something. I mean, and Google's really just been killing it and really, really pushing Gemini on every single platform it has. And it makes sense, right? Because then you think, oh, this is actually a use case where I would want to use AI to make my life easier, to do those everyday tasks, to surface the information about my flight. When I'm typing a text message and it somebody asked me, hey, what time is your flight? If I'm on a Pixel phone, it'll show that information pulled from my Gmail. That's what AI should be doing. Right. The fact that we can't do that on an iPhone yet is disappointing. That's the side where I'm like, you know, that that kind of baked in AI integration that we were kind of, that was kind of teased for us has yet to materialize.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:25:53]:
And that's the downside there. So when Siri becomes better and when it can do those kind of very menial tasks, when somebody asked me for photos from a trip and it is able to pull up those photos automatic way that I can on my Galaxy phone when we get there, then it will be, that will be very exciting. And I think, and I'm sure Apple's working on it. And you know, Apple's partnering with Google to integrate Gemini AI models into that next version of Siri. So they feel the pressure, they obviously feel the pressure here. And the thing that they always point to is while there are all these other Apple intelligence features that have launched with visual intelligence. Gedmoji. Who doesn't love a Genmoji? I've never made one.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:26:30]:
Have you made one? I don't know. Right. So there are other things that they point to of like here we've done all this other stuff, but that big promise was that smarter series. So until that arrives, then people will stop feeling like, okay, like when, when is. Is the iPhone going to step up in the way that Apple had promised us almost two years ago at this point?

Mikah Sargent [00:26:51]:
And I think, you know, so what put a big old text on the screen. What I am about to say is not, not based in any evidence that I have. It is entirely speculation. Yes. But I have to wonder if there wasn't a bit of calculation done where the company, which was seeing out in the world the narrative that it was falling behind in the air race, if the company said, said, let's think about how much money we might lose in our, our stock price from not making it clear how much AI we have, and if that number is greater than our calculations for what could be in A class action lawsuit, then perhaps we proceed. Because I'm going, why announcement these features so far ahead of time and then have to keep delaying them when. Because Apple has done this in the past where there are features that are, that take a while to come forth but they've, it's never been the center right of the marketing campaigns around these devices and I think that's where the company went wrong. But, but at the same time, it's still got to put that out there and make people kind of calm down a little bit on their, their fears about the company not, you know, staying up.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:28:31]:
So I wouldn't put it past them. They're very smart, they know what they're doing. So I, I can totally follow that theory for sure. Yeah.

Mikah Sargent [00:28:39]:
Well, I know that I am looking forward to next month when Apple's WWDC is underway and we are meant, or we're hearing that we should see this new version of Siri, the thing we've been waiting for. Because yeah, I would like for it to be a lot more like a Pixel phone in that sense of, of, you know, giving me the information I need when I need it and just making things much more convenient.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:29:06]:
Definitely. Time.

Mikah Sargent [00:29:07]:
Yep. Well, Abrar, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. It's always a pleasure to get to chat with you. If people would like to keep up with the great work that you're doing, where are the places they should go to do so?

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:29:20]:
Yes, you can find me on cnat.com, you can also follow me on Instagram. Abraral He There are no Fruit AI videos on my Instagram, but you know, we got some decent stuff on there. I'm also on x occasionally Alhiti 3 and thank you so much for having me. This was a really fun one.

Mikah Sargent [00:29:36]:
Absolutely. Thank you so much for being here and we'll see you again soon.

Abrar Al-Heeti [00:29:40]:
Yes, take of care here.

Mikah Sargent [00:29:41]:
Alrighty, folks, let's take a quick break before we come back with my interview with Andrew Langson. All about, well, something near and dear to my heart, but I don't want to spoil it. So we'll wait for that. All right, we are back from the break and as I promised, Andrew Langson of CNET is here and I'm very excited because, look, we've all had moments where the tech in our lives feels less like a tool and more. More like a big old obstacle in our path. But is that just the way things are now? Or are some of us simply getting harder to please as we get older. One CNET writer has been asking himself that very question lately, and his answer might resonate with a lot of you, as it has with me. Joining us today to talk about it is CNET's own Andrew Langson.

Mikah Sargent [00:30:27]:
Welcome, Andrew.

Andrew Lanxon [00:30:28]:
Hey, thanks for having me.

Mikah Sargent [00:30:30]:
Absolutely. Yeah, I saw this piece fly by, went and Reddit was going, yeah, yeah, there's a lot here where I'm going. I just feel like tech can be so frustrating sometimes. But I think the great thing about this piece is that it's also about some of the stuff that you have found that resonates with you. You write about rediscovering the joy of putting on a full record, letting it play, versus that endless Spotify stream. I was curious for you, what is it about the vinyl experience that's been such a revelation? And do you think that you'd feel the same way if streaming music worked more reliably in the ways that you expected? Could streaming music work as well or give you the same feelings that vinyl has lately?

Andrew Lanxon [00:31:23]:
Interesting. I definitely would feel a lot better if I knew that I could remember reliably put on an album on my phone, airplay it to my HomePod and actually have it play more than like one or two or two and a half songs before it decides to just completely cut out. Forget that I had a connection and I'd have to be there tapping up my phone, desperately trying to re establish this before the mood is entirely killed. But I actually think that what I've really learned about this is actually it's given me a sense of, I suppose, like intentionality in my music listening. It's not about having 5,000 saved songs in Spotify, it's about having a smaller number of vinyl records. But I've actually made a point of going out and selecting and buying from artists that I really love. And particularly if you find those, like live recordings, those special ones that kind of have some extra meaning and listening to music then becomes like a thing I do in the evening. We make a point of putting on that record and actually enjoying it.

Andrew Lanxon [00:32:27]:
For me, it's not about. I know a lot of people have always talked about, oh, like their character and the warmth of vinyl. And that's not that big of a consideration for me. I'm not the biggest music snob. As long as it's good enough, then that's fine. But Apple, HomePod and lossless streaming, it's already pretty good quality. But it's more about that purpose of actually putting something on rather than just hitting shuffle on a 5,000 song playlist and seeing what comes up. And that's been an experience that I've really enjoyed kind of getting back to.

Mikah Sargent [00:33:01]:
I love that you also mention that, well, maybe you've always felt a bit older than your years. You talk about some of those experiences. How much of this frustration with modern tech, Tech do you think is genuinely, and I want to be clear here, this is, this is a question free of any bias in one way or the other. Genuinely, when you think about it, how much do you think is about the tech itself versus just who you are as a person and finding, you know, the natural fit for what tech works for you and what doesn't?

Andrew Lanxon [00:33:36]:
Honestly, I think it, it is probably equal parts. I would say. I definitely want to accept my share of the blame in this, but because I am someone who I can frequently get frustrated by the little things, often like the big things, I'm fine. If something just fundamentally doesn't work. If it's broken, it's like, okay, well, that's a bit annoying, but okay, let's get it fixed or send it back or whatever it is. It's when things like kind of work, like a Bluetooth connection that's kind of there and then it just stops for almost no discernible reason. That's what bugs me. And it happens so often.

Andrew Lanxon [00:34:17]:
And I think it is me. But I also think that, like, we should, we should feel that way. Like, I don't, I don't think, I don't think I'm necessarily wrong in kind of thinking this. I think we should hold the products we use, the companies that we buy them from, to higher standards. Where actually Apple's old adage of, oh, it just works. Well, where has that gone? Because things don't just work with that same level of simplicity to the way that we expect anymore. There are more steps involved, more things that can go wrong, more companies blaming other companies saying, oh, well, actually, no, it'll be your routers that isn't doing this. And the router company says, oh, no, it's because of this.

Andrew Lanxon [00:34:59]:
And, oh, it's your. No, it's your isp. And like, okay, well, then who's to blame for why I can't just stream songs in my living room with my family? You know, yes, I am grumpy about it. And as a journalist, my job is to be a little bit grumpy and to kind of call out these problems. But I also, I do think that we should, we should care. We should care about the little things because it'll Help. Help make the bigger things better to control.

Mikah Sargent [00:35:27]:
Absolutely. Yeah. I have to agree with you. I think something that I have noticed as someone who's been steeped in tech for years is how often I have sort of just let those little. There are a lot of little inconveniences with tech that I. That don't register for me anymore. And it's because usually those are things that can be fixed, but at the same time, it's like, why do I need to do that, that. That extra step? Why do I need to do the workaround? But I would just do it and it would sort of collapse, you know what I mean? In my brain in the sense of, like, I don't hold on to it, but in paying attention to the everyday user more and hearing their frustrations, it kind of woke me up to go, holy cow.

Mikah Sargent [00:36:17]:
I have really just let a lot of that fly by, that it wasn't a concern for me. And so then it sort of shaped this narrative that perhaps everything was a little bit better than I thought it was. And when I really pulled back, as you did in this piece, it's like, oh, yeah, literally, you. Your thing about playing music from your phone to an. To a HomePod, literally last night, for the 50,000th time, it did that exact thing. And I just went like, in the moment. But when reading your piece, I was like, I'm not alone. That is so annoying.

Mikah Sargent [00:36:53]:
So, yes, this was very helpful in that way as well.

Andrew Lanxon [00:36:56]:
Yeah, we just get used to it as well, don't we? You know, like, we. I think we normalize, particularly, you know, those of us working in tech and we're product testing and reviewing things all the time. You normalize those little things, they stop standing out because they're just part of the experience. But I fundamentally feel that if you ever. Whenever I've been at CNET 15 years, and I've always felt that if I ever have to look at a product manual, then that product has fundamentally failed in its usability. So I will not have to. If I have to look something up on how to do it, then it's broken. It needs to be better.

Andrew Lanxon [00:37:30]:
And I just think that we're now being asked to do all these extra steps, all these, oh, have you done this? And, you know, even just down to logins, you know, when you sign into a new Android phone, there are so many things stuck, steps you have to take before you're actually taken to that home screen. And fine, a lot of them are worthy and they should be there, but then there's it just reminds me that as you say, the actual sort of everyday user experience is very different to kind of how we as sort of tech professionals see it. Absolutely, yeah.

Mikah Sargent [00:38:04]:
Yeah. And that's again why I think this piece is important. You talk about game consoles and that does seem to be a particular source spot. Can you tell me what a typical sort of I just want to play for an hour experience looks like on your Xbox and how that compares to firing up a console a decade ago?

Andrew Lanxon [00:38:25]:
Yeah, well, I think one of the problems I have with it is that I'm a relatively sporadic gamer. So I, you know, I may go three or four weeks before firing up my Xbox and even then, like, I might not play the same game I played last time. It may be two months since I last played a game. So I turn it on and the Xbox needs to download a, I don't know, 50 gigabyte update. And I've got pretty fast Internet, but it's still like, okay, fine, well, this is going to take half an hour, 40 minutes, it's going to restart twice and then I go to load up the game and it's like, oh, well, now the game needs a big update. That's going to take another 20 minutes, half an hour. And usually when I fire up a game, it's because I found a little brief window of time when, you know what, I don't have anything to do. I'm going to sit down, I'm just going to take this next half an hour to play a little game, play a little bit of Forza Horizon, and then suddenly I find, no, I can't do that because actually that little window that I decided to set aside is just updates.

Andrew Lanxon [00:39:26]:
So better go and do something else, stare out of the window and I make a case. So that's kind of the experience. What I don't have. I mean, you asked about like consoles a decade ago. What I found is the. Is almost the antidote of it is I bought a. Well, I had a Nintendo switch since day one, but I bought a Switch 2 recently and that is much better. With its updates, every so often there is a new update, but they're usually pretty small and the game updates themselves tend to be much better.

Andrew Lanxon [00:39:58]:
And because of the sort of state saving, I'm replaying Cyberpunk at the moment, I can just turn the console on and I'm ready to play. Like within seconds I'm back in the game. So that is perfect for the very sporadic way that I tend to play games. I guess if you're playing frequently, every day. Those updates, you know, they come once in a blue moon. They're not really a problem. But if you're like me and you turn your Xbox on fairly rarely, then that's when it kind of hits you.

Mikah Sargent [00:40:31]:
Now, Bluetooth and sort of wireless connectivity did get a lot of attention. We talked a little bit about the HomePods disconnecting in car connection stuff. Could you tell us, is there one specific incident? Is it the HomePod incident that really kind of pushed you over the edge and made you start going, wait, is this stuff actually getting worse?

Andrew Lanxon [00:40:53]:
The problem is that I don't know if there is one incident. It's a combination of it just happening too frequently, too annoying. Bluetooth has got better, I think in the last couple of years. I remember I was so hesitant to move to wireless earbuds versus having an actual wired set of headphones because the first pair that I had, it was, I think it was an old Jabra pair or something. And as I was walking down the road, one just popped out my ear straight down a weather drain and lost forever. So that was a total waste. So I went, went back to the ones that had. They were still wireless, but they were connected around the back by a wire.

Andrew Lanxon [00:41:34]:
They were great. And as a result, because they were connected, they didn't have to have a wireless connection built in. Then when I went back to full wireless and yeah, then one would suddenly drop out, but one would still play so I'd have to repair the whole thing. Or the worst was when one was a tiny millisecond behind the other and so you got the weird sort of echo thing, which just basically gives you a headache. And it just happened so often. More so if I were using non Apple headphones with an Apple phone. Obviously Apple's products tend to play a little nicer with one another. I have that less often with AirPods, but not never.

Andrew Lanxon [00:42:15]:
It does sometimes still happen. Or maybe one didn't charge in the case. So I put them on, ready to go out for a walk and one's 100% and one's dead. So great. I don't think there is one incident that made me finally go, oh, well, no, no, this is it, this is terrible. It's just, just lots and lots of these little things that as we've said, we've kind of normalized. And then when actually was able to kind of take a step back and think about what this is actually really like, what it is that I'm putting up with, I realized actually, no, this isn't okay, this isn't as it should be. It's not the wonderful tech utopia that we were promised and I'm sure little booty of connections on the grand scheme of things, not that big a deal.

Andrew Lanxon [00:43:02]:
But I just, I don't like these little annoyances when they crop up that often. And I wanted to call it out.

Mikah Sargent [00:43:11]:
Yeah, you also make a great point about Scrabble because it doesn't need that day. You don't have to open the box and then wait for the box to update and then wait for the game itself to. It's. It's all right there. And it made me think about Amazon and its day one devices or day one products where there were all these consumer products that were essentially just experiments that may or may not. You know, there's the shift towards always online, always updating products. Do you feel like this represents companies kind of offloading development costs or perhaps sort of R and D costs onto consumers? Or instead, is it just an unavoidable trade off when you've got more complex hardware with more complex software running it?

Andrew Lanxon [00:44:08]:
I think it's more that it's probably the demands of companies being forced to ship products sooner to make sure that they're hitting the shelves and that profit can start coming back in. That certainly has been the case in the games industry a lot. When we look at games like I think I call Cyberpunk out in the game I mentioned, I'm already replaying it. It's still buggy, but when that first launched it was incredibly buggy. People were up in arms about this game, like Borderline Unplayable. Like it just. It was already being delayed and clearly they just wanted to get it out the door so that they can actually start getting kind of making some money back and then fix it with day one patches. But Cyberpunk is by no means the only game that that was the case for.

Andrew Lanxon [00:44:53]:
There are a whole load of others, but we're also seeing it with. I've reviewed plenty of phones that when they've actually gone on sale and I've been out testing things like the cameras and I found some significant problems that simply shouldn't be there. And it's because they just haven't really spent the time and probably the money money in doing enough R and D. So it then becomes, oh well, it's fine, we can just put out a software update. They're doing this with cars even now there are plenty of cars where the infotainment systems are launching and they're buggy or they'll cut out. I was driving an EV last year through the center of a Spanish city. I had no idea where I was, where I was going. I was relying on the route that I had had in this sat nav, which then just crashed completely.

Andrew Lanxon [00:45:43]:
The guidance, not me, thankfully, in the car. But I was. I don't know where to go. I don't know what to do. It's incredibly busy, and it's like the company's like, okay, fine, an update will fix that. If you're paying money for any product, you should expect that product to work on day one. I think that extra features can be added, games, adding DLC later on, on. That's fine.

Andrew Lanxon [00:46:09]:
That's nice that they can kind of add extra value into that product down the line. But if you're spending any amount of money, whether it is like $70 or however much cyberpunk was on day one or $120,000, I think that car was like, you should expect it to actually do what it's supposed to do and not break. And I don't think that day one patches and firmware updates are an excuse for putting out shoddy price products.

Mikah Sargent [00:46:37]:
I agree. I agree. Now, all that said, you do mention buying an $8,000 camera, falling for a Hasselblad. So you know the tech lover and you isn't dead. What do you think separates the gadgets that still spark joy for you versus the ones that cause so much frustration?

Andrew Lanxon [00:46:57]:
Good question. And yeah, definitely got to point out, yeah, the tech lever in me is not dead. If it was, I probably wouldn't have. I wouldn't be allowed to hang around at CNET for much longer. But I think for me, it comes down to that simple user experience. And I don't necessarily mean it's very basic, but it's just that in that it does what it is supposed to do. You mentioned the Leica. Like, I bought this thing, I paid a lot of money, and it doesn't even have an interchangeable lens.

Andrew Lanxon [00:47:28]:
It doesn't have a lot of the features that my less expensive Canon camera does. And I wanted something that really kind of gets you back to the. For me at the time, it's like the purity of photography and not having to think about lots of other features, lots of other things. The Hasselblad I mentioned is incredibly expensive. It takes wonderful photos, doesn't even shoot video. And so many people are like, oh, how can they possibly put out this camera if it doesn't have video? And the company's like, well, but because it's about it's supposed to do one thing and it does it well and that for me is still crucial. It's not about trying to cram as many features in as possible, not trying to cram in lots of other software updates and oh, do you know that your camera or your games console can also do all these other things? I don't even like I bought a new TV recently and you can only buy smart TVs that come pre installed with Netflixix and everything else. I'm like that kind of bugs me because all I wanted is a very good quality panel because I'm already going to be plugging in my Apple TV or my Xbox, both of which have Netflixix and other streaming services.

Andrew Lanxon [00:48:35]:
So why am I paying again to have smart services in a tv? I just wanted a good but otherwise like basic TV and you can't really get that. That again it just bugs me. I still bought it, I still have it, it's still wonderful. But it bugs me that I'm having to kind of put up with more things being crammed in for basically no reason. And so certain products like the Leica, it's about having that intentionality in what it is that you want it to do and it does it well.

Mikah Sargent [00:49:10]:
Yeah, I used to do a call in radio show and one of the most common questions questions we would get because it's about tech questions but one of the most common questions we would get is what's the, what's a dumb TV you recommend? So you're definitely not alone in wanting to have the and I, I, I do have to wonder why the major TV manufacturers don't offer at least one model that is, that, that is, you know this is just about getting the panel and the, the remote.

Andrew Lanxon [00:49:44]:
I'd love it. Yeah, I, it was an LG I bought and it's a lovely bit of kit but I, yeah all of the information about it is about oh it has all of these services and all of the streaming and oh it can get freeview channels like okay, don't need any of that, don't want any of it. I just want, I want an HDMI in and I want a really good OLED panel. So like I don't mind the amount of money that I paid for it but I would like it even more if all of that just went into getting me the best quality panel so that I could just plug my Apple TV in because I've never used any of LG's services on it, not once. I only ever use Apple TV or my Xbox So it just feels like a waste of money.

Mikah Sargent [00:50:30]:
Lastly, perhaps the hardest question, if you could wave a magic wand and fix one specific thing about the current state of consumer technology, one frustration that would disappear tomorrow, what would it be and why is it that one?

Andrew Lanxon [00:50:47]:
Oh yeah, I think it would have to be day one updates, software updates as as mentioned, fixing things that shouldn't be broken in the first place. If your product isn't ready to go to market, it shouldn't be on the shelf.

Mikah Sargent [00:51:02]:
Very well put. Well, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to join us today, making me feel less alone and I imagine making other people out there as well feel less alone. Of course, people can head over to cnet.com to check out the great work that you're doing. But if they want to keep up to date with what you are up to, where are the places online they should go to do that?

Andrew Lanxon [00:51:25]:
Best bet would be Instagram, where I am attoryhq, or my YouTube channel, which is about the photography I do with the leica, which is YouTube.com Andrew Langsonphotography.

Mikah Sargent [00:51:38]:
Awesome. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

Andrew Lanxon [00:51:41]:
Thanks for having me.

Mikah Sargent [00:51:42]:
All righty, folks, we are going to move right along. All right. Finally, I want to round things out with a story that I saw on the New York Times. It's a new study out this week as we record the show on Thursday, May 7. It's the largest, most rigorous look yet at what actually happens when American schools take phones away from kids. And, well, the headline is more complicated than either side of the debate probably wanted it to be. Writing for the New York Times, education reporter Dana Goldstein walks through findings from a National Bureau of Economic Research working paper. It's important to understand this is a working paper by a team of economists from Stanford, Duke, the University of Pennsylvania and the University of Michigan.

Mikah Sargent [00:52:30]:
In order to put together this piece, they studied more than 40,000 schools between 2019 and 2026 using GPS data, test scores, discipline records, and surveys of teachers and students where they zeroed in on schools that adopted yonder. Those, if you're not not aware, are those magnetic locking pouches that you may have seen at concerts when the venue or the artist doesn't want things filmed. You put this in this little pouch and there's a special lock that can only be unlocked by someone who has the unlocky thing. Anyway, the bands worked in the sense that phone use plummeted. If you ban phones by taking phones away, well, then yeah, phone use did plummet. But the results on the Things that the bans were supposed to fix. The test scores, the attendance, the bullying are mostly awash. There's kind of a lot to unpack here, so let's kind of dig in.

Mikah Sargent [00:53:37]:
First and foremost, it seems that the findings currently don't match the political consensus because two thirds of US states have passed laws restricting phones in schools over the past three years. And this is one of those rare policies that actually has true, genuine bipartisan support. So when you have something that is supported by all parties, it's a little bit more awkward when the actual results suggest that everything that you've been and rallying behind is maybe not what you expected. The researchers found that yonder pouches absolutely do what they say on the tin because GPS pings on school grounds dropped by about 30% and teacher reported in class phone use fell from 61% of students down to 13%. That's a roughly 80% drop in teachers seeing kids on phones. But. But on test scores, the average effect across all schools is, in the author's words, quote, close to zero. They can rule out improvements larger than 0.008 student level standard deviations.

Mikah Sargent [00:54:57]:
So what about attendance? No effect. What about perceived online bullying? No effect. What about self reported classroom attention? No effect. And arguably slightly negative in the second year. The political pitch for these bands was that they'd fix a long list of problems. The data says they fix one of those problems, which is of course, people using phones. But it seems that most of the rest are largely unchanged. You know, I was personally concerned when I heard about this that standardized test scores would drop per chance because students were using their phones to help answer the questions they were being asked.

Mikah Sargent [00:55:43]:
So in a way, I'm glad that there's been very little change to test scores because it means that it's not had the impact that I thought it would. So at least there's some level of teaching that's actually happening. That's good, right? There's also a difference between parents and students. It's a gap that nobody's really talking about. It seems in the news part of it, but it is part of the report, arguably kind of one of the more interesting findings because the researchers ran a national survey with Gallup. So that's 2,000 teens and a parent in each household. And they asked both groups what they thought a yonder style policy would do. Again, I remind you, that's that bad bag.

Mikah Sargent [00:56:32]:
You put the phone in the bag and at the end of class you can get your phone back out again. Parents were enthusiastic across the board, they expected it to improve test scores. They thought it would improve student relationships. And of course, what they thought more than anything else was that it would improve mental health. So that means that on the whole, parents, by a wide margin, supported the band. Students saw it completely differently. In fact, they said in doing this ban, we expect there will only be a modest improvement on every measure. And of course, on the ban itself, the students were completely opposed or overall they were net opposed, essentially.

Mikah Sargent [00:57:17]:
So you have two groups looking at the exact same intervention. Parents are convinced it's going to fix their kid's life. Kids are convinced that it mostly won't. And frankly, it landed closer to the students predictions than the parents, the kids called it. There's so much there that I like. I wish that I had a degree in psychology because I just would love to dig into like that fear that we become our parents. I just think about what that means, which is that in a way, as we age, there's a risk that we lose some ability to empathize with people who are younger than us and move quickly to assuming we know better in every way and that we. Or maybe it's not that we know better, it's that they don't know better.

Mikah Sargent [00:58:29]:
And also that they, despite a desire for some level of autonomy, should not be given that level of autonomy. And, and that is a pattern that like, you know, movies, TV shows, it's in our cultural lexicon. So it's not just something that's made up. That is, we see. It's like you forget the awareness that you had as a child at these different ages, and you just sort of lowest common denominator, these people, because of their age and, and whatever else is at play. So in a way, I'm not surprised that the human beings who are actually part of this experience and part of this process would have more insight into the impact than people who are litigating and, and controlling things without being part of the experience. Yeah, I don't think that I'm surprised by that part of it, but it's odd to me that that part is not being shared a lot more where it's essentially the kids called it. And I don't know why that's not a bigger part of the story.

Mikah Sargent [01:00:01]:
Anyhoo, there's another aspect of this. In the first year year that a school adopts yonder, according to this study, suspensions go up by about 16%. And that's not a small number. In fact, it's the kind of finding that opponents of these bands will probably reach for because, well, suspensions mean that a child is outside of school and is not learning. The paper does offer a few explanations for why this is. I think you can probably guess. Some kids get suspension, suspended for trying to circumvent the policy itself. And so you're gonna get kicked out.

Mikah Sargent [01:00:36]:
But the more interesting theory comes from Thomas Dee, who is the Stanford education economist on the paper. Dee told the Times that some of the new conflicts may come from kids no longer self anesthetizing through their phones. So in a way, phones were absorbing social friction. Friction. And when you take them away, well, that friction has to actually go somewhere. That means it's going into peer conflict, into classroom disruption, into the kinds of things that get kids sent to the office. So, yeah, where perhaps those adhd, those, those children with ADHD, as one example, who maybe had found an outlet for the attention and impulsive aspect, impulsivity aspects of their ADHD are then no longer putting that into the phone. Now they're putting it out in the world.

Mikah Sargent [01:01:41]:
I don't mean to categorize everyone as everyone who's been suspended as having adhd, but as someone with adhd, I, I am very aware of the idea that I need that sort of hamster on a wheel part of my brain to have something to focus on. And so the idea that, you know, no, that's no longer there. Yeah, you're looking for other ways to stimulate that hamster. And that could mean social friction or friction in class. The good news is that this effect does seem to fade in subsequent years because the children and the schools will adapt. But you know, it's something that these, these schools have to be aware of whenever they put in this program. And of course that also means that well being is going to drop before it goes up, up. This is a sort of subjective curve.

Mikah Sargent [01:02:46]:
And in the first year of adoption, students reported well being drops by about 0.2 standard deviations. By the second post adoption year, it swung positive. It was up about 0.16 standard deviations. So can we compare that? Yes. The paper notes that an earlier study found deactivating Facebook for four weeks increased well being by 0, 0.09 standard deviations. So the eventual gain here is, you know, it's meaningful. But that dip does happen first. And you know, I'm not surprised that when you take away their phones, they're unhappy for a time and then stay unhappy for about a school year before they just go, okay, well, this is the way that things are.

Mikah Sargent [01:03:37]:
Interestingly, I think I've probably said interestingly a lot, but that's because a lot of this is interesting. Another thing that stuck out to me was how high schoolers benefited, but middle schoolers didn't seem to be affected. The headline that says no effect on test scores does hide a bit of a split because in high schools there was a modest positive effect. Math especially did see a bump. And in middle schools, on the other hand, there was either very little bump or in fact negative. Why is that the case? Well, as I mentioned, impulse control. Younger kids may substitute toward other disruptive behaviors more readily when those phones disappear. So middle schools eat the cost of enforcement without getting the focus benefit it.

Mikah Sargent [01:04:32]:
So there's not that that ability to stay focused afterward and it just becomes a method of or a need to continue to regulate and enforce. But the other is that the phone activity drops less in middle school to begin with. Middle schoolers are less attached to their phones. They haven't spent as much time with their phones, so perhaps they're not using them as much and using them in the same ways. And in many cases, cases you're blocked from using certain things that you may not be blocked from using in high school. So all of that comes together to mean that there's less to gain by banning the children from their phones if A there aren't a lot of, there aren't as many middle schoolers with phones and B they're maybe not using them as much and are not as driven to paying attention to them. So kids, the kids the bans seem to help are the ones that are already old enough to mostly self regulate anyway. And the kids most often cited as needing protection, middle schoolers are the ones getting the worst of the deal.

Mikah Sargent [01:05:43]:
Now these bans are having an impact. The comparison that schools weren't. Let me try this again. So there's a detail that you have to of understand to, to get the full scope of the study. The comparison schools weren't phone free for alls. So the paper reports that 62% of schools adopting Yonder were already transitioning from a no show policy. So understand that it wasn't as if before the Yonder policy came into effect, everybody was able to just use their phone or it was just, you know, run by classroom to classroom room. No, these schools were already, many of these schools were already working with a no show policy.

Mikah Sargent [01:06:33]:
So kids had their phones but they were not supposed to have them out. They shouldn't be seen. Yonder isn't being measured against, you know, entirely permissive chaos, but instead was being measured against an honor system. So it kind of gives you a better understanding of the the, the value of a physical lock over a rule and the value of honor system versus enforcement. And I think that's fascinating because based on GPS data and teacher reports, it's the lock that is doing the real work. Kids were not seemingly following those no show policies, or if they were no show, they were hiding their fault phones in places where they were still out. With Yonder, they're not able to do so. So ultimately, when it comes to this, teachers seem pretty happy with the change.

Mikah Sargent [01:07:34]:
They're more satisfied with their school's policy. They report fewer in class distractions. The deputy superintendent in Cape Gerardeau in Missouri, Missouri Shout Out Missouri told the Times that Yonder had become a recruiting and retention tool for that district because there were teachers and parents who were looking for places where their students would not be encouraged or would would actively be discouraged from using their phones in schools. Look, there's a lot in the study itself. There's a lot in the New York Times piece about this. I continue to think about all of my friends and all of you dear listeners out there who do have kids in school at this time, because I think there's a lot of a lot of interesting stuff going on with tech regulation between cell phone bans, but also the influx of AI into schools and into teaching and into homework and everywhere else. And I can't imagine what it's like having to navigate all of that, but I imagine it must be pretty stressful. Folks, that is going to bring us to the end of this episode of Tech News Weekly.

Mikah Sargent [01:09:04]:
I want to thank you all for being here today. If you aren't currently subscribed to the show, head to twit.tv/tnw to subscribe to the show on audio and video formats. I mentioned Club Twit during the show, but again, head to twit.tv/clubtwit to check out more there. If you'd like to follow me online, I'm @mikhasargent on many a social media network. Or you can head to chihuahua.coffee that's C H I H U A H U A.coffee where I've got links to the places I'm most active on online. Be sure to check out my other shows including Hands-On Apple, Hands-On Tech and iOS today. And I'll be back next week with another episode of Tech News Weekly. Bye bye.