Windows Weekly 896 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

00:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's time for Windows Weekly. Paul Thorat's here, richard Campbell's in Copenhagen, but he's going to join us anyway. It's Week D. Do you know where your preview updates are? Microsoft took Paul's advice. What the new Lenovo ThinkPads are. Here with a review from Paul, iphone 16, pixel 9. Yes, I know it's Windows Weekly, we're going to stick it in anyway. And a great tip of the week Plus a whiskey from Denmark. All that coming up next on Windows Weekly Podcasts you love From people you trust. This is Twit. This is Windows Weekly with Paul Theriot and Richard Campbell, episode 896, recorded Wednesday, august 28th 2024. A very buxom seal. Hey, winners and dozers, it's time for Windows Weekly, the show where we cover the latest news and snooze from Microsoft. Join me right now. Paul Theriot from theriotcom.

01:07 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I'll handle the snooze. Thank you very much. How snoozy are you?

01:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And in beautiful, wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen, it's Richard Campbell Run his radio. Wait a minute, I have to switch you guys, you're in the wrong slot. I got to put there we go. Holy cow, how come no one told me my butt was so big anyway? Um, hello, hello, hello. Good to see you both. Um, anything going on well. First of all, what are you doing in copenhagen, mr camp?

01:40 - Richard Campbell (Host)
copenhagen revelers festival and just finished up my first talk on understanding nuclear power. So I did a solid hour of working through how light water reactors evolved and current problems and attempts to make them less costly and safer and all the fun stuff.

01:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I didn't know you had expertise in that realm. I just know how to tell a good story, so you could basically give a speech on anything, given enough time.

02:06 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yep, and it was a lot of research. Little confident is he's like yep, yep, no I'm talking about the main habits of the penguins, you could ask me that question you're gonna get a pregnant pause for the ages?

02:18 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I'm gonna get the north I can do the northern river otter off the top of my head because I read that book.

02:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Wow, so, yeah, that's cool. Well, you're, that's what. So you're a public speaker, yeah, and the topics are fungible on dot net rocks.

02:31 - Richard Campbell (Host)
We did a whole series of geek outs and I did a bunch of shows on nuclear power I think it's great somebody who can talk about it in play yeah, so we basically compiled that into a, into a talk. So nice little, you know, a little light water, a little boiling water, a little sodium, some you know thorium molten salt reactors.

02:50 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
This reminds me I this has probably come up before, but you're in high school and they put the thing up on the wall. It says we want people to be in the school play. Some people like oh, and then some others like Ooh, you know, and I think we're on the opposite ends of that when it comes to the desire to like to speak publicly or whatever.

03:10 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, I, you know I've been doing conference time, speaking now at 30 years and uh, it's fun to push against other things and these geek outs have been really rewarding, you know they. The feedback I got from people coming up to me afterwards was like was like you know, I've always tried to figure out what the heck was going on. You explained it like I get it.

03:28 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
yeah see the. The part where it's over and people are walking up is also my favorite part, but that's because that's when it's over yeah, well, how's Windows for you?

03:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, how's Windows for you? I told you to be a pregnant.

03:49 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Pause when you asked me the hard questions.

03:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Let's talk about Windows. Do you really want to know what's going on? How's?

03:54 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Windows doing for you. I can just go directly to Danish whiskey if you want.

03:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, maybe we should. That's coming at the end, kids Don't get too.

04:02 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I was in a bar that had writer's tears. I thought of you, oh yeah.

04:07 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Not the tequila finish I hope.

04:10 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Actually, I did have tequila instead of that, interestingly. So yeah, so last week was week D. This is the week we get the preview updates, assuming Microsoft ships them out on time, and this week they did. You may recall that last Actually, it was this month technically patch tuesday the three supported versions of windows 11 aligned as predicted and uh, now that we have the patch or the week d updates, uh, they have disaligned. What's, what am I looking at? They've become more chaotic, or?

04:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
slightly more different.

04:44 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, so these are sort of preview updates for the Patch Tuesday update we're going to get in September. So they went out yesterday. As we record this, 23 and 22H2 both got the same knowledge base, the same cumulative update, a couple of minor features, and then 24H2 got something separate which was even more minor actually, and they were all supposed to be the same.

05:06 - Richard Campbell (Host)
except why should they be the same when they literally get different numbers?

05:13 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, I can't answer any questions like that. I mean, it's just a mystery, I don't know. This is the world we live in, right? So some of this stuff will sound familiar because they were testing it in the Insider Preview program. So, for example, if you have an Android phone connected to PhoneLink, it will appear as the first choice in the share pane that nobody uses, so you can share to your phone. I guess I'm not sure why you would want to do that, but that's fine.

05:39
Minor improvements to some of the accessibility features. And then the one common feature between the week D updates for both 22, 23 and 24H2, which is just some foundational work on the widgets interface, because they're going to allow third party extensions to the feed and so forth. So they're doing that work now ahead of what I assume is going to be September, october. You know the mainstream release of 24H2, which I think is going to be September October. You know the, the mainstream release of 24 H two, which I think is when they want that stuff to go live, and this is apparently in response to the EU and the DMA, although they're making this change worldwide and I well, maybe it is, I don't know.

06:17
I, for some reason. I sort of had this separate in my brain that this wasn't what that was, that they always intended for widgets to be extensible. But anyway, that's happening. That's still in the future, but it is happening. So nothing dramatic. And of course, you know, if history is any guide and it is not I mean it is just not, it just isn't. I mean we should be getting pretty close to what 24 H two is. You know, that's broader release that will go out to the X64 PCs as well 22H2. No, I mean 24H2. Like, in other words, we're getting closer to what that should be Like. I don't know that we're going to see much in the way of new features over the next 30 days.

06:59 - Richard Campbell (Host)
right, like we're probably kind of where it's going to be. It is the end of August. They pretty much got to get it together now.

07:06 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yep, so I think that's maybe that explains the slowdown. I don't know. They'll probably catch up as soon as they release it.

07:14 - Richard Campbell (Host)
They'll release a new preview update and we'll start getting all this other stuff. Put 22H2 up to bed, yep. Yeah, I still haven't given up a couple of my Win 10 machines, so I'm waiting to see what's going to happen to those.

07:29 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yep, richard, if you had joined the show, I don't know five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, and you would ask me questions like the questions you've asked me today, with great certainty I could have answered those questions. And today I'm just kind of just kind of juggling here in the apocalypse. I have no idea what's going on, like you know, you don't even. It's just not even worth pretending I understand what's happening, because you haven't even done a look.

07:54 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It's elvis or anything like another distraction, yeah is that bob hope?

07:59 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
what's happening? I, yeah, it's. It's um something card trick, can I? I don't know, I don't know. So you know. No, they don't say anything. Things happen. We have no way of knowing, but you know again, based on history, october is probably the rough time frame for 24 h2. We know that october is the time frame for the end of support for 22 h2. Um, you know, it's microsoft, right? So a lot of those guys that are still on 22 h2, for whatever reason, will probably be force updated to 23 h2 because they do things stupidly.

08:26 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So but nothing will change because they're identical yeah, there's, they are and they aren't.

08:31 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You know, right now they're not. They've kind of shifted, although you know september's a new month. I mean, we'll see, these are just preview updates. Uh, maybe we shouldn't read too much into it. We're 20, yes, 20. Kevin says uh, kevin says 22 H2-ish. I would say 22 H2 adjacent. There you go, we're all 22. We're 20, something, h2, something, something. Everybody's got an.

08:52 - Richard Campbell (Host)
H2.

08:53 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, that's the important part, yep, so I didn't put this in the notes, but next week is IFA in Berlin. We're going to see a formal launch. Yeah, I am going. Excuse me, I'm choked up just thinking about going to Europe, lunar Lake launching right for Intel, the next second gen Intel Core Ultra chipsets. Lots of PCs based on that will be coming out and will be announced next week. So next week should be a pretty big one. This has been a curiously big year for PCs. We've kind of talked about that.

09:28 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It's been a busy summer for reviewing laptops. I'm actually going to touch on a little bit of that, just because, if snapdragon hadn't showed up.

09:31 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Would that still be true? I don't know.

09:32 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, that's a good question I just think it's that well and you can say that's first order and second order too. It's first order, just reviewing snapdragon stuff in second order. Is everybody else that's not in that space going? Oh man man.

09:42 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I think you can. Yeah, microsoft can and has pushed toward chip makers and also PC makers, these notions of this is what we need, this is what we need, this is what they need. And it's kind of ignore, ignore, ignore. And then I think what caught Intel flat footed here essentially was you know, wait a minute, qualcomm actually figured it out. Damn it Like we got, like we were kind of counting on them, never figuring it out, because that was that strategy has worked great for about seven years or whatever.

10:08 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, it's also an argument of like have they actually figured it out? Are the drivers good enough? Like yeah, so you've made a machine, but you did that before you know. Let's go take a look at some of those win rt tablets and say how that went yeah, I mean.

10:22 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So some of the questions coming up with Qualcomm are anything at IFA, and then they also have the big annual event in October, their Snapdragon Summit, and I think it's reasonable. Well, there's one thing we do know is they will be announcing new chips for their phones that are based on the Snapdragon X architecture. That's the big play for them. So that's happening. But my question is whether we're going to see I don't know, we'd call it a Snapdragon Elite X V2, whatever for CES release timeframe. I don't know. It's pretty short.

10:55 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I mean, we think no sooner than spring next year, but I would expect fall next year.

11:01 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, so you're probably closer to the mark than I am, because I tend to think in these ces ifa time frames. But the reality is they announced snapdragon x at last october and those machines didn't ship until june.

11:13 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So right, yeah, I mean that could be yeah, well, they could announce it again at ifa.

11:19 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You're just not going to be able to get them for another nine months yeah, I feel like snapdragon or qualcomm at some point should align with the rest of the pc market, because you know obvious reasons, but so far you know the other thing is I I haven't talked about production problems.

11:34 - Richard Campbell (Host)
We know we've had weird chip availabilities. Yep, I wouldn't go around announcing a next generation chip when you still get a bunch of back orders for the first generation chips. Yeah, you know, I mean you talk to those guys at osborne about that like they're calling.

11:48 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
How can we find those guys? Um, back back then the phone number was probably five digits long and you could talk to someone to make the call you know, you just talked to lily.

11:58 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Just bang the handset a couple times like.

11:59 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Lily put me through exactly, yeah, so I don't know. Um I, you know, at the end of every year is always interesting for windows because of the h2 stuff. Lily put me through Exactly, yeah, so I don't know. You know, at the end of every year it's always interesting for Windows because of the H2 stuff. This is the big feature update timeframe. But you know, back to school holidays, ifa, you know all this it's all kind of colliding, so we'll see Next month or two months, whatever.

12:23 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It's going to be kind of interesting, Like it hasn't already. It's been pretty cool since, like April.

12:29 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, it depends on who you ask. I mean, for me it's been hotter than anything since like June 18th, and then I just got caught. I, I, I finally reviewed the fourth of the four Snapdragon X laptops I have, which means I have to go back to the crap that intel makes intelligent um. Oh no, um. Actually, you know, like we talked about last week, I think uh, hp did some interesting work on that elite book 1040.

12:58
There's there's some interesting stuff going on. There's some you know, amd nonsense with theirs and five not performing to what anyone expected, including apparently amd um. So that's been kind of interesting um, and part of it, I think, is that um in amd was counting on uh 24 h2 and apparently there's some architectural work there. It's a little different from 22, 23 h2. That actually makes their newer zen 5 chips run better and uh, so they shipped them, of course, before then and everyone's like how come this uh isn't even close to what you said. It was uh like, yeah, you know what's what's going on there. So anyway, I think that's going to iron out. I think everything will be fine when they're like, still kind of um you know, waiting on a windows update.

13:42 - Richard Campbell (Host)
That's a tough way to live well, that's my entire adult existence.

13:46 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So you know, yeah, I agree, it's so well. Okay, so let's see, since we talked last week, there's only been to my memory one inside a program build that could be changing as we speak, um microsoft for some reason keeps screwing around the lock screen. So when you think about all the things you might want to fix in Windows and I'm going to actually touch on one of those in a minute they don't do any of that stuff. But what they do do is fix problems no one has, and they, I don't know.

14:14 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So you know, like all those times I keep looking at my machine it unlocks, yeah exactly.

14:19 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You're playing media through your PC like it's 1997, and you, for some reason, you want to control it from the lock screen. So there's, I guess there's a media playback control there already, but they're updating it now. It's going to sit below those four right tiles you may or may not be seeing yet.

14:33 - Richard Campbell (Host)
They'll get there eventually configured windows hello.

14:35 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
And so every time you go to reach for that pause button, it disappears and it welcomes you yep, yeah, and if you um have presence sensing, which increasingly a lot of newer p PCs do, that thing sees you coming from across the room. You're like I'm just going to go pause the. Oh, no, I'm not. It's like you know, it's like you get to walk up to it, you know, sneak up to it or something, or complain about something like that I always hear from the one guy. He's like I don't know what you're talking about. I use this feature every single day, so I guess you know to each their own, but I don't know whatever. So this is the world we live in, yeah, and then I don't know. I feel like we might've talked about this a little bit last week but I hadn't written about it, so last, sorry, this month's patch Tuesday update. So two weeks ago apparently borked a small number of Linux yeah, I think we did talk about this these Linux boatloaders on machines that were dual booting.

15:30 - Richard Campbell (Host)
This was also patching a zero day, as I recall, so they did have to.

15:36 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So this is a typical example of what happens with Microsoft. This happened with them with Crowdsource. Crowdsource, yeah, crowdsource, that's right. Crowdstrike, crowdsource, um, crowdsource, yeah, crowdsource, that's right. Crowdstrike, right. I was like that sounded right. Um, terrible name, by the way. Uh, and look the jury's out a little bit here on whether or not Microsoft deserves some blame. I think they made a pretty good case. It was pretty much right at Crowdstrike's feet and of course, crowdstrike took credit for that.

15:59
But whatever you know, these things happen and people like eh, microsoft, there we go again. You know. So, unfortunately, with this, um, the bootloader thing, um, you know, open source community is a little tough. They. They look at this and think, ah, here we go. Yep, Microsoft links is a cancer. They're doing it again, 98 again.

16:16
But it it turns out that they actually did all the work to make sure this was going to work. The the, the thing that Microsoft. The mistake they made was they only tested against supported Linux bootloaders, not the out-of-date bootloaders that some people for some reason still have on their computers. So since this has happened what an untext Linux box. What are you talking about, I know. So Microsoft has posted instructions on how to fix this. If for some reason you're so technical that you're dual booting an older version of Linux and Windows and this hurt you. But I suspect I'm guessing most of those people probably figured it out. But you know, they try to make that right and look, whatever anyone thinks of Microsoft, I certainly have my own mixed feelings. They're not going after Linux. I'm sorry they're just not.

16:57 - Richard Campbell (Host)
First of all, an old bootloader set.

17:00 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, I know it's crazy, no-transcript. I actually have this other problem I have routinely. In fact it surfaces every week when I do the show notes for the show, right, because the way I do that is, I have a little template that I paste in that's just empty, with, you know, some headers and things, and then I go to my website and I go through the previous week and I find the stories and I copy and paste them in Right, and I don't always copy paste the headline stuff. I usually write that directly in notion, but then I grabbed the URL and paste it in so you guys can click on it and see the story, right, and um, you know, it doesn't matter which browser I use, but it's um, you know, you right, click on a, a heading or whatever. You know something that has a URL, copy, link, address, go over to Notion, paste, nope, Nope. I would say no. It's not fair to say. I was going to say 50%, I would say maybe 20, 25% of the time. It pays nothing. It pays something else. It pays the last thing that was in the clipboard, the thing that I went to do to go copy to the clipboard didn't work Right, and this is a I'm going to.

18:40
I don't want to beat this one to death, but my rationale, or the evidence I've seen, suggests that, if you think about this, this is typically what happened with a touchpad not with a mouse right you right-click by two, or maybe you're using the zone right those are a little different on all touchpads. That could be the source of hilarity and the context menu comes up and then you click copy right. It's pretty straightforward stuff, but you didn't click it right, and by that I mean you might've clicked over in the right click zone or you might've somehow you know, you fumble fingered it. I do this all the time. So what happens when you do that? Is it just so? What happens when you do that? Is it just? The clipboard doesn't change.

19:28
So if there was a previous URL in there, another item that maybe is not compatible to paste as text, as I'm doing here, you get the wrong thing or nothing right. That's what happens. This happens to me all the time and look, not a software designer, not an expert software developer, anything like that. However, based on how often this happens and just based on my knowledge of software, the thing is, when you right click something and a menu comes up. There's only two things you're going to do there. You're going to click on something and you mean to click on it, or you're going to cancel it. Right, you can hit escape, you can click outside of. It goes away.

20:10 - Richard Campbell (Host)
But when you actually click and you can hear the thing click.

20:12 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
you hear the clunk on the on the trackpad you you feel it. Go down and come back up. Right, the context menu disappears, Right.

20:15 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It should do what you want.

20:16 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Right, and I bet you all that it's done it. Yeah, my, my guess and and this is, you know, based on many, many years of experiencing this is that it registers as a right-click. There is no way to right-click a right-click menu. There's nothing, it doesn't respond to that event and it just ignores it. I think that's what happens, and so what I'm saying is, when you right-click something and your menu comes up and then you right-click on one of those items you clicked, it, just take it as a click.

20:43 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It's going to be okay.

20:44 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, it's what people intended. This is what I'm outraged about this week, richard. Okay, you'd be outraged. Sometimes it's a little slow and I have to invent something. So that was no. I've been meaning to write that one probably for 10 years, honestly, but I had just done the one about the keyboard and I was like you know, this is actually far more common, and what's beautiful about our world, too is, um, I write about this and I don't know if it's split 50, 50 or not, but let's say it is Um. A lot of people are going to say, oh my God, yeah, that happens to me all the time I asked my wife about this.

21:25
She're using a mouse, maybe, or you know where that wouldn't happen. I guess maybe you're using a track point. I know one guy who said he didn't see it was using the little nubbin thing. Okay, fair enough. It doesn't happen every single time. That's what windows does to you, right? It only happens sometimes, just enough to make you think maybe it's you, but it's's not. Yeah, a little bit of gaslighting from your computer, exactly what's a little gaslighting between friends?

21:49 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So anyway window, that's windows gaslighting foundation.

21:57 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Why is windows not returning my texts?

22:02 - Richard Campbell (Host)
All right, a little bit dimmer today A little bit.

22:04 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Leo, you're still with us. He's gone. I think he's still trying to troubleshoot. Yeah, they're fighting something. All right, we will move on.

22:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, he's back oh, boy, can't hear me. I don't know what's going on, can you not hear me? I hear you now, yeah, oh well, let me pause. Then there we go. Sorry, yeah, I don't know. Okay, never mind, forget, I said anything.

22:30
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26:23 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So you guys probably don't remember this, but there was a little security incident, uh earlier this year. Uh, no, not the microsoft hack thing that they're not really talking about still. No, I'm referring to the crowd strike thing that uh brought delta to its knees and apparently half the rest of the planet. Yeah and uh, yeah, but you know, yeah, and you know there's a lot of back and forth.

26:45
Right, microsoft lashed out at the EU at the time blaming this you know 15-year-old antitrust thing they had to do to get Vista out the door. I made the argument that going back and actually looking at what they did that.

26:57
that was Microsoft's idea, not the EU's. And seriously, what are you doing, microsoft? Anyway, for all the back and forth on that and the blame and the finger pointing and whatnot, I kind of said, look and not a unique thought, but here's an idea. Why don't we just fix the problem? You know, like, let's just fix the problem. And the way we fix the problem is not to engage with regulators who are idiots, it is to work with the industry and actually just fix the problem.

27:21
So I'm not saying they took my advice, although they sort of did. I mean they didn't. I'm sure they didn't listen to me in the slightest, but they're going to have a security summit. Uh, this, uh, this, this. When, paul, when is this.

27:33
September, 10th September, this September, um with CrowdStrike and others in the security industry to try to solve this problem. I kind of imagine it's like that senior lethal weapon where there's like a tarp on the ground and the guy from crowd strike walks in and he's like what's up with the tarp? And they're like we're just doing a little little remodeling and, uh, you know, somebody shoots the fish tank. You know what I'm talking about.

27:53 - Richard Campbell (Host)
But I'm worried. I'm worried about the guys from crowd strike.

28:10 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Cause I get they honestly did have a path to do this that wouldn't cause this problem, that you can take it right, and I think that maybe this is just about kind of shaking hands and agreeing we're going to start doing that stuff. And uh, someone had made the was this the raise somewhere? I don't remember where this came from, but fairly recently, probably in response to the story, someone had said you know, microsoft is the one who continued allowing kernel access to windows. I mean mean technically on that level. It is kind of their fault and like, okay, fair enough.

28:30 - Richard Campbell (Host)
But they were also the ones that got in big trouble when they didn't allow people into their kernel.

28:35 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, and you know, as we explained on the show and then we had a further conversation about it, you know Microsoft did what they did to get you know, windows Vista, which was Longhorn, was three, four or five, whatever years behind schedule. They needed to get that thing out the door before the end of the year and so you know they made some concessions there. They were the ones that came up with the idea, you know, and the thing we had talked about was that's cute, but that was 2006. I mean, it's been almost 20 years since then. I mean you couldn't have turned this off since then. If this is such a huge security problem, you know whatever. But you know, I don't know if you heard this, but Microsoft is all about security now again, and this time they're serious and I guess we'll see.

29:16 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So I don't know Certainly hearing from certain corners about it being harder to get certain things done because the FSI restrictions are being enforced and if you know what or how to get it work, make it work.

29:30 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I haven't I haven't said this about Microsoft since possibly the 1990s, but I think they need to move a little slower. You know it's been this past two years almost.

29:39
Yeah, it's been kind of crazy, particular crazy yeah, it's been nuts. So, yeah, been kind of crazy in this particular crazy yeah, it's been nuts. So, yeah, yeah. So they're gonna. This is the right thing, and I, I look, I, this is going to be one of those. We're all going to have to make hard decisions, kind of things. I suspect that their partners crowd strike and whoever else is on that list, I think their one concern is going to be okay, but you're going to do the same thing, right, you're going to restrict yourself in the same way, microsoft as we do, thus leveling the playing field. In other words, you'll architect Windows in such a way, if you have to change it, that we will all be using the same level of access to whatever API this is.

30:14 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I mean the idea that if you're going to make us use an API, tell us you're using that API too. That's right, you're dogfooding this API, your dog foodiness. Api is not just for.

30:23 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
And I have to think that's what they're going to do, right?

30:26 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I mean, I Well, generally my experience with the kernel team is they don't want to work with you anyway. So all the more that you have to go up to the API level.

30:33 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Sure, I hope they wear wizard hats and you know like float around about six inches off the ground.

30:59 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, you know, it was one thing that struck me is most of those folks have been in that company for 30 plus years and they don't want to change.

31:02 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
And it's like unless they have eight wives and a cocaine habit, they don't need the money. So what do you? How do you persuade them to do anything right thing?

31:05 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So in this case, I should say I need you know, I've said this before it's like nobody goes to work, to, to, to be terrible.

31:11 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah Right, They've just worried about different things. It's just a happy coincidence, richard. You know it's a. It's just a, it's a win-win, right now I always call this the McDonald's rule. This is a. They didn't start McDonald's to make America fat, you know they. They were solving a problem and they were, and they did. They did a great job and they did too good of a job. Apparently, Some consequences, yeah, yes. So that's what the, that's what I, that's what the Colonel is.

31:43 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It's McDonald's. Don't look for the logic please. Yeah, no.

31:46 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I've been. There's a metaphor in here about a happy meal somewhere I just can't remember. Yeah, exactly, right, right, yes, co-pilot is that plastic toy you get with the happy meal. There you go, look, look, you're like it looks like something, but it's not. I'm going to just rest on that for a second.

32:01
Okay, so every quarter I report on Microsoft's financials and also on other companies, but obviously I focus on Microsoft, and the one thing I've seen that I find very troubling and it's gotten worse and worse and worse, not just Microsoft, but again I focus on Microsoft is they are not providing the details we need, and by we I don't mean people who are nosy providing the details we need, and by we I don't mean people who are nosy, I mean people who are shareholders and want or want to be shareholders and need that information to know whether this company is worth investing in.

32:31
There have been no changes with the SEC and reporting rules or anything like that. This is not in response to anything. Rather, I think it's a collective testing of the pushback, and there's been none. So apple used to report exactly the number of iphones and whatever else they sold every quarter, and now they don't, you know, and so now we have nothing to go off of, and so for the entire time that azure has been a thing, there's never been a single quarter where microsoft said we made dollar amount some, something, something, something with it will On Azure utilization, yeah and so the net result is that it's all enrolled in something else.

33:08
Yeah, this is about a lack of transparency, right and to be clear, not specific to Microsoft.

33:14 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Every tech company? Oh no, no, not at all.

33:18 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
But I focus on Microsoft, right, that's my only thing. So Microsoft has three top-level business units we talk about this. Intelligent cloud is the biggest one. This is azure, right. Productivity and business processes, which is essentially microsoft 365, right, and then more personal computing, which is like the garbage collector thing in the bottom of the sink that gets everything else and that's uh, windows, uh, xbox surface and I want to say like bing and search, advertising stuff, right, like that. It's Windows, right, or well, actually now it's Windows and Xbox, because Xbox is suddenly huge thanks to Activision.

33:49
Anyway, it used to be that more person they used to. Actually, there was a long period of time where these three businesses were roughly the same size, which I took it to be a little bit of accounting chicanery at the time. But as Azure has grown and as Microsoft 365 has grown to be more and more important to the company, these are both essentially cloud-based, subscription-based services for businesses. Those two parts have grown more and have gotten bigger, and Intelligent Cloud, like I said today, is the big one. You can do all kinds of things. When you only have three business units, you can move stuff around however you want. They pushed HoloLens into the devices, part of more personal computing at one point, right, and it just kind of sits there dead. Nobody has any idea how it impacts anything. There's no way to know. There's no quarter over quarter comparable, there's no idea. But the previous, well, it's still the current reporting structure. But the way they report revenues is kind of interesting because as Microsoft has turned into this different kind of company, it's not really clear like where revenue comes from, right. So something like Microsoft 365 for businesses not the consumer version, but the commercial version often includes things that related to Windows, like Windows licensing and you know you licensing and you know you get, um, you know the enterprise version of windows 11 or 10 or whatever.

35:09
And okay, so are those revenues in more personal computing or are they in you know the microsoft 365 numbers that are part of productivity, business processes? You know there's no, you have to look for little hints. So we were always every quarter you're looking like. What are the little details? What's going on here? So, really surprising to me, microsoft in the past week made an announcement. Well, made an announcement. They filed a legal document with the SEC to explain that for its now current fiscal year they will be reporting things differently. They're not changing the top three level business units, but they are shuffling around what goes where, not all of it. I mean some is changing more than others, et cetera, et cetera. The details aren't super important, but the situation I just described is being resolved. So, for example, more personal computing, like I said, has to date included all of the revenues generated by Windows, but now the parts of Windows commercial that are part of Microsoft 365 are going over to productivity and business processes. There's other changes, but this is an obvious one because that's the revenue mapping thing.

36:23 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It's like they're some cash items over there and picking up some other ones over here.

36:28 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, Now, microsoft promoted this in two ways A they they claimed that it was more transparent, which is nonsense and because there's no way to compare anything to anything. And B they said this puts revenue, or this puts the reporting of revenues, where those revenues actually occur, which actually is true. Right, some percentage of the revenues we would have attributed or we think of as being for Windows actually came because customers wanted a broader Microsoft 365 offering of some kind. I mean, it's a combination of offerings, really right, but whatever. And where does all the AI stuff go? Right, that's been a big question. More recently, we have revenues from things like Copilot for Microsoft 365. Where does that go? Copilot Pro, which is the consumer version of that when does that go? And the fascinating part about this is those things are changing and because they're changing, we know now where they were.

37:27 - Richard Campbell (Host)
They never said this before Interesting.

37:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, yeah.

37:30 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So Copilot Pro, the consumer version of Copilot for Microsoft 365, the revenues from that product which had to have been minuscule, right were previously reported under Office Consumer Products and Cloud Services, which is part of productivity and business processes. You know, part of Microsoft 365 that's moving into search and news advertising, which is part of more personal computing where windows is. And yeah, Okay, I mean like okay, right. So windows as a business, or I should say more personal computing as the the business is losing Windows commercial revenues, which I think is going to be huge, but they're gaining co-pilot pro revenues, which I think are tiny. Now, helping matters and masking this quarter-to-quarter, year-over-year is they have Activision Blizzard, so Activision Blizzard revenues are also in more personal computing.

38:22
It's going to be hard to kind of see, but aside from the fact All the gaming stuff is in more personal computing it's going to be hard to kind of see. But, aside from the fact, all the gaming stuff is in more personal computing, that's right and that's not changing. And so, even though you could make some argument that subscription services and a little bit of cloud streaming, that doesn't amount to anything. There's something Azure in there, but it's all more personal computing, right. So we learned a little bit about where revenues were Some of them. We learned a little bit about where they're going, and for the next four quarters they're going to do year over year comparables only percentages, right, not raw numbers. But that will pretend that the business structure last year is what it is this year. So we actually gonna we're gonna get some, but you also get to realize insight.

39:08 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Obviously, every one of these business units knows how much that money they make. They do, do, oh, they do, yeah, all internal, and so literally you're just watching a little bit of a deck shuffle here where they like, yeah, oh for sure so, but here's the thing. You should be able to derive what their past numbers were if you knew those breakouts.

39:25 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, I mean for me, because I have to report on this. The big deal here is that because of these year-over-year pretend comparables, we're going to actually get to see, I think, if I'm understanding this correctly, roughly how much Windows commercial products and services if I'm getting that name right contributed to Windows overall. Right, at least as a percentage, right? Yeah, because we'll see what it was in each of the previous four quarters, I think, if I understand it, or we'll see it from one quarter a year ago for four quarters in a row. However they do it, it doesn't really matter. But it's again not what we want, not what I want, certainly, but it is more. We'll have to do math and you know they're not making it easy, but that to me is actually kind of fascinating. So we're going to get a little you know it's a little just a quick peek in there and we're going to see some of that. So that's cool, but I have to say this is fascinating. This is just more of the same from a transparency perspective, right, I mean you can. We know, because we've talked about this, that when Microsoft stock was skyrocketing when Satya Nidala first took over, it was because largely that Azure growth quarter or year over year, every quarter, 70%, 70%, 70%, that's a crazy number and you know, as we did got through several of those. This can't last.

40:44
At some point this business matures and sure enough it did 63, 58, 52. And Wall Street was okay with it for a little while, but once it got down to 40-something they were like whoa, what's going on, is something wrong? No, ai, I mean they kind of changed the tune right. So by moving revenues that arguably should have been reported in that business into that business, I mean this is that's not a good example because Microsoft 365 is not going there. But by moving things around they can smooth out, you know, revenue, literal, uh, total revenues, revenue growth percentages per business, whatever it is. And I think this is just a way to kind of smooth out a little bit of a problem, which is we're spending 19 billion bucks every quarter and it's going to get worse on AI, and now they can be like well, it's okay, see, all the business is doing great. So you can hide things that are negative more easily when you have lots of things that make lots of money and whatever you want to make positive is easy to make.

41:51 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, right, yeah. I think, that's a copilot.

41:53 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
They can promote that, but yeah they're going to be able to do it yourself.

42:03
My guess is that's how I determined that. I actually asked co-pilot while they were doing it, but they no. I mentioned that the reporting requirements from the SEC hadn't changed. It wasn't in response to anything like that. But it is possible that behind the scenes the SEC has come to them and said hey, you've got a lot ofEx going on here with AI and we don't see this anywhere. So what's going on? You're legally required to report on that. So this may have been, I'm going to say, inspired by a conversation with the SEC. Nobody knows about that. But whatever the reason, this is changing and because they're changing it, they are legally obligated to do that year-over-year comparable thing that I described earlier. So that's not something they're doing because they're, you know, like we're a fun new transparent company now, yeah, they're not being generally clear.

42:52 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It's a legal requirement.

42:54 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, maybe. So that is fascinating to me. So you know we're going to get not a lot more, we're going to get a little bit more information. So that's always good, because that's been the frustration right For me and for people like me. I guess I don't know Okay.

43:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah.

43:10
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44:02
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44:35
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46:51
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47:16
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48:03
Now I'm going to figure out how I can get out of here without screwing everything up. Stop touching things and I shall give it back to you. Oh, I had one question before we go on. I have the capability of putting chat comments up in here, do you Now? I did that last week and I did it with Steve Gibson and Steve said everybody hated it, so I stopped it. But how about you guys? Do you like it or no?

48:33 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
And the audience I don't have enough of an opinion yet, I'm not sure. All right, well, try it.

48:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I will. I mean there's no reason not to try it. If you try it, I will. I mean there's no reason not to try it. If you hate it, if we hate it, say something, turn it off. All right, now I shall magically disappear and give the floor back to Richard Campbell, run his radiocom, and Paul Thurot, thurotcom. Bye-bye.

49:02 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Bye-bye, not bye. Yeah, sorry, perleo's like he's gonna have a little yeah yeah, so just kind of I was.

49:14
I was going through the articles this past week and I was like man, there's a lot of hardware stuff, you know, and maybe it's just the time of year, you know, pixel just launched uh ip iPhone's launching soon. It's been the big summer of uh laptop reviews for me. Blah, blah, blah, whatever. So, yeah, so we can rifle through some of this. But, um, I just like I said, I finally reviewed the fourth of the four uh Snapdragon X elite uh laptops I have. This is the ThinkPad T14 S.

49:42 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I would say, say it's only a badass machine, right, I love it actually. Is it an Intel machine?

49:48 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, so the Snapdragon version's about 10 hours of battery life, as you would expect. All the efficiency, no nonsense, super reliable stuff you should expect now from this stuff. It's, you know, awesome keyboard, obviously, touch, you know. Whatever screen's good, you know. But for there's something about ThinkPad that I just kind of love. So the only thing for me that puts the Surface laptop over the top is just the bigger screen which you just can't get on the ThinkPad. So other than that, I mean it's like this is, you know, I still think the Lenovo Yoga 7X Slim is probably a better choice for most individuals because of the crazy low cost and the upgrades and stuff.

50:26
It's just nice. But, yeah, this is a really good one. Like I said, I have to go to Berlin next week. I think I might just take it with me just for the 10 hours. They're going to want it back at some point, right, yeah, I have to send it back. That's the thing. That's why I was like you know to. They're gonna want it back at some point, right, yeah, I have to send it back. That's the thing. That's why I was like you know, but between that trip and when we go to mexico at the end of september, I have to I'm probably going to ship seven or eight laptops back. It's been like kind of a crazy the summer for this stuff, so I've got I've got like boxes piled in here. It's crazy, but anywho, that's awesome.

51:01
Um, on the other end of the spectrum, literally, is the ThinkPad X12, detachable Gen 2. So they used to have something I think it was just called the ThinkPad tablet that came before that. But this is their Surface Pro-like tablet, right? Two-in-one. Design-wise, it's not changed at all since the last one, which I think is as long as many as three years old now, is three years old now. Um, it's a intel core ultra, which is like, and then it's like a u-series, really like, oh so the the difference between u-series and h-series is that the u-series still has the old school intel integrated graphics, not the newer arc graphics. Um, so yeah, but you know, they're shooting for thin and light. Obviously, whatever this type of form factor, I'll give it a shot, but I I will. I'll just point out I'm not going to say what it was, but I did get a U series meteor like laptop in earlier this year. That was so bad I just eventually decided. I'm not reviewing this thing, it's just it was terrible.

51:54 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So I'm a little nervous about it. It's a pre-production chips too. Right Like it's pretty.

52:05 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Was it? I don't know? No, I think it was. I think it was. It was the only one I've seen.

52:07
Like I, I think it's notable that most laptops go with the h series. Like you would typically reserve those for more like um, not workstation, but uh, more, you know, creator style or whatever. Yeah, but I think, because the architecture change has become more mainstream. Um, and we saw that with the previous gen when they did the p series over the uh, what was that? 12th and 13th gen same thing. You know they, as they change the architecture, they have to kind of, you know, almost, scaffold it up a little bit. So, anyway, it's a thing I know some people are really into that kind of stuff, whatever, um, a couple of pixel things.

52:40
So I got the pixel 9xl. I think I got it actually during the show last week or right before the show. Um switched it over, set it up. It's all great and everything. And I, this phone is freaking me out because it is, it looks and feels so much like the iPhone that I have right that things like um I'll have to do. Like um, like the way Apple, you get a code on another Apple device and have to type it in. So like I'm on Apple TV the night renting a movie with our friends, and it's like I'll type in this code. So I picked up the phone and I'm like where's the code?

53:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, this is a phone dude. Yeah, like it's not enough yeah.

53:14 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's, it's, it's weird, Like it's, it's it's.

53:18 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Are you able? To import your stuff from the iPhone.

53:22 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, I think there is. I don't do that, but yeah, there is that. It offers that, but I've never tried it. I always take it from another. The big change they did this time was they're letting you do that after you're all set up, like before you had to do it during setup and now you can actually push that off. So if you want to bring in your data and your apps and everything, you can do that later. I um I almost always I did do this time a clean install just because I hate myself, right, um, but no touch, right.

53:50
Well, I'm trying to see. Yeah, like, right, what did you decide? Like, do you say no touch? Is that what you got? No touch, just let it run right. Yeah, so the dream in any hardware deployment is no touch or light touch, right and um. The way I, the way I do these things, is typically heavy touch.

54:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So it's the opposite but much touch. So can you tell which is which? Yeah, on the one side is the Pixel 9. On the other side, you can tell when.

54:13 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I flip it. It's funny because I would have guessed the other way.

54:15
So the only telltale sign from the front is the. You don't have dynamic eye on you, you just have the single camera hole. And then from the back, look we all. Everyone watching this is like I could recognize an iphone. Yeah, pixel camera array from a million years, you know, but a lot of people can't. I mean I. I think this would pass for an iphone for a lot of people just out in the wild like you wouldn't even notice it, you know I play a little game when I'm doing out and about and doing selfies, identifying the phones from the camera that they're using.

54:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's kind of fun.

54:51 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, because it was on in a bar. There was some kind of a tennis thing going on and all these people are taking pictures on their phones of whatever's happening. It's like iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone. Oh, there's the one pixel guy, that's cute. Iphone, iPhone, it's just all iPhone.

55:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I like it, it's heavy.

55:05 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Does it feel heavy to you? So it's as heavy as the iphone is the way I would say it.

55:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah that's about right. Better battery life, though. I've gone two days, yeah, but that's that it is.

55:16 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's a low bar, um. It's still not as good as the iphone, um, at least. So I've only had a few days, but I mean it's it's give it some time. I keep forgetting to plug it in and it's like, wow, you're at 88 okay yeah, that's good I've I, you know we we did a big day out lots of photos. I brought a charger and needed it, so but it's well, that's.

55:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah. You know I wasn't using, I know this was unplugged. So, uh, have you tried the like, the ai features, like call, yeah, the ai features are hilarious, so some of them are awesome.

55:44 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Like there's a feature uh, it's called auto frame where you have a photo and it's it's one of the things you might have seen this online where you can take a photo and you have it extend it off to the side so you make it like wider or whatever, like it fills in the details. That's, that's incredible, like it's incredible. But then they also have this on-device image generation thing, which I think is called Pixel Studio maybe, which is ludicrously bad, like really bad, and you know, that's the experience kind of on the Copilot Plus PCs too. Right, the stuff that they do really well is magic eraser type stuff. I just did that. You saw that bar.

56:18
Yeah, like that stuff I took a picture of a crowd of people in a square and I was like boop and they all disappeared and there's a couple of things. I didn't do it at the time, but you should go in and kind of clean up some details there and there. But my God, it's kind of crazy, so I'm going to turn my kitty cat. Yes, this is the rematch feature.

56:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's a little slow.

56:42 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah. I mean it's running on device supposedly, uh, you know, but it's uh make this look like it's the uh golden eye nice, isn't that great, yeah, so I did one where I had a picture I had some I changed some motorcycles into like a volkswagen bug looks great.

57:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's pretty good. I mean it's hard to the edges are good. It's really hard to say where that was modified.

57:07 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
This is always, you know, google's been talking about computational photography. See, people forget this. But pixel 2 that long ago was the first one they had custom hardware I think it was called pixel visual core to to do this, the basics versions of this kind of stuff. It developed into something else that was more general and would do hardware-accelerated AI for other things. These were like proto-MPUs, right, yeah, basically, they kind of started this.

57:37 - Richard Campbell (Host)
The Pixel phone shipped with those TensorFlow processors for a while. Yeah, I think only Google was taking advantage of them.

57:43 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yep, it's just really interesting, and today it like science fiction. I mean it's great. Some of the stuff is crazy. It is amazing, isn't it?

57:50 - Richard Campbell (Host)
yeah, and, by the way, you know the thing you sorry, all this ai stuff is a feature, not the product, right?

57:57 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
so going back, to pixel because I've been using the iphone probably I don't know February. You forget, right? You forget what it's like when your phone actually prevents you from getting any kind of spam from phone calls or texts. That's wonderful. Or you forget all the million tiny features that they would have advertised or promoted as the helpful phone. You know that stuff when it's like you call and you're waiting on hold, it's like I'll wait on hold for you, We'll let you know when you're there. You know, or it navigates through the phone system for you or like, or a call screens for you, and then the scammer just doesn't bother because it can tell it's not going to get through. Like, right, it has a million tiny yeah Little full, Right, yeah.

58:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Have you tried the call notes yet, where it listens to the call? No, I haven't yet.

58:47 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You should call each other and say that yeah, because this requires the other person to agree to it. Obviously, right, you know, whatever, but it's very interesting, yeah, anyway, I think this thing is really. It looks great. I, you know we'll see I need to use it more. But, um, there's an astonishing. There's, you know, apple, which is like this, slow measured, we're going to get there, don't worry, it's going to. You know, it's not going to scare anybody. And then google's like like running around, like just doing like it's, like it is the exact opposite, it's crazy, and one of these, and one of these it's like the wild west everyone gets a gun.

59:19
You know. Just keep shooting randomly, it will be fine, don't?

59:22 - Richard Campbell (Host)
worry about.

59:22 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Some of the stuff it does is some of it is crazy, like some of it's crazy. Um, because you can that image generator, you can tell it to generate anything and it will do anything offensive you can think of like it will pretty much do.

59:33
And which is astonishing because if you go to gemini right now and say, uh, because I did this this morning, actually I create me a picture. It's like a factory with some people in front of it Like, yep, we're not doing people yet, and it's like they haven't been doing people since that thing that happened back in February. They're still not doing it. But if you go into this stupid little pixel app, it's like oh, you want people? There you go. It's crazy. So anyway, the contrast between Apple and Google on this stuff is just awesome. It's extraordinary. There's something for everybody in there, I guess.

01:00:08 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, I mean, it's Google. They write software. They don't necessarily have great APIs, they don't necessarily engage the community particularly well, but their engineers go to work using those processors and getting results that other phones can't do. More power to them, yeah.

01:00:25 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Apple has more of a I didn't mean to say it this way. I was going to say not dictatorial, although, as I fumbled over that, yes, actually dictatorial. But I mean they have a way of dictating like what's going to happen? They'll be like look, this year the pro phones are going to have this feature, and nobody asked us for this, or we didn't, certainly didn't listen to you if you did and uh, that's what we're doing. And then next year comes around, they're like all right, now we're going to bring it over to the ipad, we're going to bring it to the non-pro phones, um, and they just kind of have their own. You know, they just they do what they do. You know, whereas google's like, like I said, like you know, one of these one yeah it's really.

01:01:01
It's funny. I really I'm surprised by how much I like it, like it's and I love I've always liked Pixel but I mean it's this kind of fun Like you could lose yourself in this stuff pretty easily.

01:01:13 - Richard Campbell (Host)
You're flying your board with your iPhone, that's for sure.

01:01:17 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, it, yeah, yeah, I mean it's interesting, like it's. Yeah, the difference is interesting. Related to this Google. I know rushed is the wrong term, but Google intended to ship Android 15 earlier in the year than they have with previous Android releases. They actually tried to do this last year too. They then scheduled their Pixel launch for much earlier than they usually do. So we had the first Pixel 9 series phones come out in August. They usually come out in October, right. And even had the first pixel nine series phones come out in August. They usually come out in October, right. And um, even with that, even with the heightened schedule, we kind of figured well, they're going to ship with 14 and then Android 15 will come out. You just get that probably in September, and I guess that was the plan, but they just delayed that until September. So in the course of 24 hours they released a uh, an interim beta, the probably the final one for Android 15. So people on Pixel 9 series phones could get into the beta. And I did that because you know idiot. And then they again didn't announce it.

01:02:14
But if you are in the Android 15 beta and you unenroll and the Android 15 stable is not out, you have to go back to 14. And when you do that, you have to wipe your phone. So it's like a factory reset and in the screen that comes up for that it says you know, the alternative is don't install this and just wait until October when Android 15 ships, like oh, thanks for telling us. So I guess it's coming out in October, which is at least a month later than they intended originally. So, um, if you are on the Android 15 beta, if you have a pixel nine or not, it doesn't matter, any phone right, and um, you want to exit, what you can do is unenroll your phone now or anytime. Well, you don't want to wait too late, but do it now if you want, and just leave it alone.

01:02:57
Don't install that update, because if you do the over the air update, you'll wipe the phone and go back to 14. Over the air update, you'll wipe the phone and go back to 14. Um, you may want that, but I mean, if you don't want that, don't do it, and then it won't just auto install. It's not windows, you know it's not going to do it behind your back, but uh, just you know it. I figured it'd be like a couple of weeks. It's going to be a couple of months. So just sit on it and in October 15, we'll come out and then the over the air will switch to that and that one you can install, and then you'll be unstable. You'll be good to go. So cool, there you go, uh, and I guess that's it okay, yes, let me see if I can add myself.

01:03:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Move myself to the middle it's like it's one of those tile games where it's like well, normally I have professional uh board ops doing this, but on this show, for reasons I'm beginning to regret, yep, I thought I would do it it seemed like such a good idea, yeah yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool.

01:03:54 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's not you know what, it's, it's me, and if I could just get it all down right, this is will be fun this is the tech version of super dave, where you're like I got it, I got it, I got this, and then I ain't got it, and then he slides down the wall. I missed it.

01:04:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
All right, we're going to have more with Windows Weekly. Paul Thorat, in Macungie, you're in Copenhagen, denmark. Richard Campbell, that's right. Have you gone out to see the?

01:04:22 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Little Mermaid. Yet no, Some friends of mine went, but I was working in the conference center all day. Today we're in the meatpacking area, which used to be a really rough part of town. The fellow I met today, Casper, who brought me this phenomenal Danish whiskey he was sort of looking around going. You know, I've been down here in 10 years. This used to be a really good place to get stabbed. No, it's really nice now yeah yeah, and a great bit of urban renewal.

01:04:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's beautiful, yeah I actually like it quite a bit and, uh, if you do walk down to see, you know of course she's in the harbor. You can't like walk over to her, but she's and she's made of bronze, so she's only so easy to talk to yeah, but she's slippery if you try to jump, and I'm walking down with Lisa this was a few years ago towards it and there's a thing that you might think is the Little Mermaid on the shore there, but there is a dead giveaway she's rather buxom.

01:05:16 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I thought you were going to say it's a seal.

01:05:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Maybe it is. Maybe I was fooled by the manatee, a rather buxom seal, yeah.

01:05:24 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Anyway, I love Copenhagen, so it's like some company just put something up to fool people.

01:05:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You know, one of the things about Europe that you'd notice is there's a lot of art, a lot of public art. Was it Copenhagen, where there's a face floating in the river and a hand pointing? I can't remember if that was Helsinki. Anyway, just you're walking down the thing, it's like what the hell?

01:05:48 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
yeah, the bridges on the highways of ireland have been painted like they're. With art, they're like beautiful yeah, isn't that great with our my wife's parents and we're driving. She's like why? Father's like, why is? Why are these things all? Why? What's with all the art? Why they like that. It's like it's art, you know. It's like what does it do? What does it do?

01:06:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
it doesn't do nothing just like your art.

01:06:06
Why is it there? Just shut up and enjoy it. Our show today brought to you, thank you. Thank you, gents. We'll be right back to the uh, the apple section of windows weekly. I know you're waiting with bated breath for that, uh.

01:06:21
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01:10:07 - Richard Campbell (Host)
The first time I've seen you assemble that shot without you moving from the middle.

01:10:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I know, yeah, um, pretty good, I'm getting there's, there's there. It's very complicated and, um, and I'm not so bright, but I'm getting it. And this, you know it's. This platform is cool because we're using restream, as people probably can give it out to all the different sources. Yeah, there are a lot of different. There's like stream yard, there's restream, a lot of companies doing this. They're using web rtc for the calls, the video and the audio, um, and then they're putting it all together.

01:10:37
One of the things restream does that we love in fact, we use restream for all the is. It puts us out on seven different platforms. So we're on Discord for our club members, youtube, twitch, facebook, xcom, linkedin, kik. We want to do Telegram. I think we're going to swap Kik for Telegram so you can watch this show live every Wednesday, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 1800 UTC, by just going to one of those places like YouTubecom, slash, twit, slash live and watching us live, and I think that's really a cool feature of Restream. Let's do that. And, if I can, if Leo could just figure out what happens when he presses See, oh, there you go, it works, everything's working. Back, we go to the show and the long awaited yeah, apple segment.

01:11:28 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, I spent some time on pixel. I thought I would give the Apple guys that's fair.

01:11:33
Talk about them behind their backs. Um so iPhone 16 leaks? Everyone knows what it is. Uh, mark Herman said when it was going to happen, and now we know it's happening on the ninth. So Mark Gurman said when it was going to happen and now we know it's happening on the 9th. So if you're looking forward to that, supposed to be some, you know, apple Watch, airpods, blah, blah, blah. Whatever Might be an iPad mini sighting, we'll see. So that's coming soon. So just that's all.

01:11:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Just not a. I love the mini. I mean, I know this isn't the show to mention this, but no, I did.

01:12:03 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
If that thing was on an M chip, I would have gotten that.

01:12:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, and I wonder if it will be, but it's certainly. The one that's out now is super annuated. It's been out for a few years. Yeah, I think it's going to have to be right.

01:12:12 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, oh yeah. For sure, I think it's going to have to be.

01:12:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, yeah, the old Mini is great. I have it by my bedside. That's what I read on. It's going to be like A14, A16.

01:12:25 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Something.

01:12:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think Apple's going all M4 for everything. Wow, that would be amazing. I feel like the Wicked Witch of the West disappearing in a puff of smoke here.

01:12:40 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
And your dog Toto too. Where did Leo go?

01:12:43 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Where did Leo go? Yeah, exactly.

01:12:46 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
We're just the flying monkeys in this equation. So I mentioned this last week. I had seen something about Loop 2.0 happening and now Microsoft has sort of announced it, by which I mean they tweeted about it and about a couple of new features, but I'm not seeing any of this anywhere.

01:13:05 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I'm not seeing it on my commercial account, not seeing it on my consumer account so it might be on my phone, just because the phone loop has gotten really unreliable.

01:13:14 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
All right, well, I mean, it looks nice according to the screenshot. I have not the thing I actually have on my devices, but uh, yeah, so I don't know, anyway, I.

01:13:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So is this screenshot from Microsoft's.

01:13:27 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, and it's not even a real screenshot. Well, maybe it is. You know, because they do this kind of fake mock-up things, it's kind of hard to say if that's real or not. But yeah, it's roughly like that. I mean, it's the new. You know, this is the when you I fluent kind of style, whatever whatever I like it.

01:13:47 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Um, yeah, it looks like a, like a pretty notion, you know. Yeah, I mean, I've moved up a version on this on the laptop here it's at 20, 24, 08, 21, 21, okay, yeah, yeah, so that was that and that's the day I saw the announcement, and right, so it must have been like a day something earlier.

01:14:00 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
But I, I don't know, I'm surprised there hasn't been an official microsoft 365 blog, something, something I don't know. I'm surprised there hasn't been an official microsoft 365 blog, something, something I don't know. Maybe there will be, but anyway, something to look out for, especially if you care about looper, are using it or whatever. Maybe you'll just look out for this update.

01:14:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's gonna, it's gonna have to happen at some point um, by the way, there we are with 242 people watching on xcom. Hello, all he is. Hey, how you doing.

01:14:27 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Okay, sorry, I just get excited about these, that's okay uh, always on the lookout for more conversions to windows and arm and libra office, which of course is the free uh office productivity suite. You know microsoft office alternative that I think dates back to Star Office, you know back in the systems days.

01:14:45
Yeah, as their new version out, and it is available in a native windows on our version. So for the first time ever, that's cool. Oh, that is really interesting. Yeah, and I. I I don't use the full suite, but I do use their the writer component, which is the. You know the word processor it's, it's good, I mean it looks old fashioned. You know the word processor it's, it's good. I mean, it looks old fashioned.

01:15:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
you know it has that kind of old fashioned windows or a toolbar.

01:15:08 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
No ribbon? Yeah, there's no ribbon, but you can. You know you can fine tune it down. I I had kind of forgotten about this, but if you were to go back to the early two thousands, you know late nineties, people used to spend a lot of time customizing the toolbars in those apps, the ones they use the most, like I, would do this for word and then you could save the configuration and reload it on other computers and you can do that in LibreOffice if you want, and I have. I mean it's I'm that dumb, but you know you can spend your time however you want. That's one of the ones.

01:15:38
Yeah, that's my job. That's a good way to put it. This one was confusing to me and apparently I didn't link to it correctly, or what did I do, I guess I didn't know. There it is um. Google announced that hb will be the first pc maker to bundle something called google essentials on new consumer and gaming pcs. It's going to come to other pc makers soon.

01:15:58
So okay, and if I don't remember this, but back in the day google had a I think it was called something essentials that you would install and you'd get like a Google toolbar and Internet Explorer, and you know, they used to have kind of a downloadable thing back before they had a Chrome browser and at first I was like, oh, is this something like that? No, this is just crap.

01:16:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Where it's so was that, by the way, that was just a way to get on your desktop. I mean, yeah, of course. App where it's um, so was that, by the way, that was just a way to get on your desktop. I mean, yeah, of course yeah, it's.

01:16:26 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Would you please install our virus um?

01:16:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
yeah, so it was good, but there were a lot of those back in the day.

01:16:32 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, right yeah, no, I mean that this was, and then you know, it led to us just having you know better browsers eventually. But what was that? So it's nothing like that.

01:16:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, bonzi Buddy, was that it Bonsai Buddy? You don't remember Bonzi Buddy, it was a toolbar.

01:16:51 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I think it was called like Google Internet Essentials, oh that was it.

01:16:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
yeah, I don't remember.

01:16:57 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I used it briefly. I mean it was a thing you know, you had better search and whatever, better tracking. So it's an app, it's's bundled. You can uninstall it, you know, of course, I I think the only local thing that well, actually I guess it would be two is and they probably don't install this all by default, so you probably just install it from there but google play games, which is the pc version of their android based play games. You know ecosystem. You can get that app and and it has its own emulator and you can run android uh games on your windows pc that way.

01:17:30
So that's part of it. And then google drive, which is another locally installable bit where you could, you know, sync your drive and so forth. But the rest of it you know google photos, messages, google docs, gold or google calendar. Um, that's just, those are just web apps. Right, are, and I don't mean to say just web apps, but I mean most people just run them in a browser and don't really, you know, they don't really think of it as a local app. So you know, this is just. You know they're paying HP for distribution, basically.

01:17:59 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So, yeah, don't have to convert very many to make it worthwhile. I guess it depends on what they paid.

01:18:04 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, so we'll see. So this will be coming to Spectre, envy, pavilion, omen, victus and HP branded computers, all of which are going away, and soon it will be featured on Omnibook, which is the new consumer brand, the old consumer brand, that's new again and then presumably to other pc makers.

01:18:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So I feel like people are just going to say this is malware or spyware. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it doesn't feel, for sure, doesn't feel good to me but whatever, it's fine.

01:18:33 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I mean I don't, I don't dislike any. I use google. I mean I use a lot of stuff. It's google photos is great.

01:18:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I just you know, I don't think this is how people want to acquire that stuff, but this is of course, what google got in trouble for with the with apple, exactly, yeah, right, because, uh, they were bundling all these tools into uh, well, you know it's like riding a bike, leo, you, you play to your strengths and uh, we're good at this.

01:18:57 - Richard Campbell (Host)
We know how to do it well. They do so well with the eu. They, you know, worked out so well, yeah.

01:19:03 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, proton, which has come up again and again and again, announced a standalone version of something called proton drive for business, right. So obviously the business version of proton drive. As part of this, they're actually upping the minimum storage. It used to be five, 12 gig and now it's a terabyte, which is great. So any individual can now buy a business version of this. You know, with one terabyte of storage, a year of file history, file version history, sorry, for typically 10 bucks a month, but you can get it on sale for right now it's actually like 599 if you pay for annual, like that's a, that's a, that's a good deal.

01:19:41
And I will say say, for me, the sticking point in storage has always been, or the drive has always been, the storage stuff. Um, proton also has, you know, a business suite and other things that are more expensive. That you know. Bundle all their other things together. Those are on sale as well for businesses. You know, on the per user, per month plans, um, but, uh, less well known is they actually have a google docss alternative that I think is just called Docs. That's part of Drive. So, like Google Docs would be, I guess, part of Google Drive, right, with AI stuff going on. So you know, for all the reasons, someone would want to use Proton, which is great. You know these guys. Every week it seems like there's something new. So good, that's good yeah that's awesome.

01:20:24
Yeah, and there's something new. So good, that's good. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, and these are completely unrelated. But Brave has had two updates over the past week one on desktop, one on mobile that are privacy related. So on iPad and iPhone, they're doing HTTPS by default and they're saying I think this is the first iOS web browser to do that, thanks to you, and that's fun, and so that's good. So obviously, if a site doesn't have an HTTPS version, it will pop up something and tell you you can choose to go or not.

01:20:52
And then on the desktop side, some months ago, maybe back in June or May, they announced that they were going to bring this thing to their to. Brave on desktop called bring your own model BYOM right. So this is where they have something called leo for ai. That's built into the browser, like a lot of browser makers do, and now you can choose to use. You will, you would yourself.

01:21:13
You install a local llm or slm and then you configure it for use in brave and instead of hitting something in the cloud because you can also do bring your own cloud models right you can connect chat, gpt or whatever to it, but you could load up your PC with a bunch of models and then just configure each one for use in Brave and then do all of your querying of the AI against those models, instead of going out to the web right and keeping with their whole privacy and security focus. So cool, complicated probably, but you know, interesting program. Uh, and speaking of apple and those delightful guys responding to the dma, um, it seems like every week we're getting new concessions from apple finally. So they're giving away bit by bit. It's breathtaking to watch this happen.

01:22:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
it's beautiful they're doing a browser ballot now.

01:22:03 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I hope they call microsoft and ask for advice, yeah, especially for the ui. Uh, because microsoft would be the company you'd want to call for that, um but the funny thing is I don't think there's nobody's making browsers for iphone.

01:22:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, it's, it's too expensive.

01:22:19 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Firefox said we're not going to do that and that's because if this was worldwide, that might be different.

01:22:25 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Right.

01:22:26 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
If you could do your own rendering engine and whatever else everywhere in the world, that might be a different story. But because they're limiting it to the EU, which you know. Apple yeah, it's going to limit the appeal of this stuff, but they're allowing people on iPhones and iPads to delete more of the inbox apps, like something we see on Windows as well. Microsoft has been actually pretty transparent about that stuff, but they're also adding more like default apps, right. So you know, I don't know what you can do exactly in iOS, but it's probably default mail. I just actually probably not. It's default browser, default search for auto and autofill, I guess, and that might be it, maybe. But now there's going to be a lot more app choices for defaults, right, so you can do things like uh, change your phone app, change your messaging app, this all if you're on android. You're like what are you talking about?

01:23:12
yeah, like everybody like this sounds like so obvious, but that's not how apple works.

01:23:17 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Typically doesn't do that, yeah people are freaking out what you want.

01:23:21 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
They know the right way to do it yeah, and I, I guess the thing I, you know that the big, one of the big problems we have, I think, in our world I guess not just our industry, but our whole world is like people get upset about things that don't, uh, impact them. Yeah, and I don't mean like because we don't live in europe. I mean, you may be, as an apple fan, I'm just going to use the apple phone app. Obviously I'm going to use messages. I'm going to use the Apple phone app. Obviously I'm going to use Messages. I'm going to use the Apple app. Yeah, great, but there are people who want to use something else, right, so it doesn't hurt you if they do right, and presumably there'd be a market of third-party phone apps that people could innovate in.

01:23:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
if Apple did that's routed.

01:24:00 - Richard Campbell (Host)
You're about to find out empirically see how, see how many people actually yeah, this is a good test.

01:24:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But I mean Firefox said look, if we had to write a separate browser just for iPhone in the EU, it would cost us too much money. So we're not. Yeah.

01:24:12 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, maybe Google could pay him a little more. You know, I don't know.

01:24:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think that's also going away.

01:24:27 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
That might be part. The rest of this stuff is going to be lightning round because who cares? But Threads is emerging as a viable alternative to what used to be Twitter. One of the big things they did this year was allow website owners like myself or creators to have an API where they can do like auto posting and stuff like that. So that's huge, but they're obviously you know. You can see what Threads is doing. It's like what are other networks doing? Oh, they're doing like weird little posts that disappear over time. Let's do that thing. So they're kind of adding that stuff Is that better.

01:24:47 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Are you happy now?

01:24:48 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah.

01:24:49 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't understand the benefit of that, but yeah.

01:24:51 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I don't either. I hate it, but it's weird because in Instagram't like it.

01:25:11
Yeah, yeah, but I guess, if you're a teenager, or yeah, imbecile, I'm trying to imagine why you would want this I don't know like if you're a teenage imbecile if you were a farmer and no, I don't know, I don't, I don't understand, but people seem to like it, um, or some people do so. So we also heard about rumors of a paid version of Alexa, apparently that's going to launch in October. Amazon typically has that September event, which I'll describe as a hardware event or Amazon devices event. This might be our first peek at Panos Panay post-Microsoft.

01:25:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

01:25:42 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
He's going to charge you $10, so you can have a chatubby super pumped about paying for oh boy, I don't know.

01:25:50 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, those guys need to make a viable business model. I think they've been making this for a long time. Yeah, they lose business. Yeah, we're supposed to sell a lot of soap, but it didn't but, who's gonna pay 10 bucks?

01:26:00 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
really I for something I know I mean.

01:26:02 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, and it better be modernized like it better have the llms running now like we're. Well, that's the. I think that's the whole idea.

01:26:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I don't know. The old, apparently, is going to continue, according to rumor going to continue. Yeah, the new I can see ai enabled yeah, so it'll be a free paid version.

01:26:19 - Richard Campbell (Host)
If you convert and start paying, you get a new one, if you don't right they're going to start doing things that will bring in the old people.

01:26:25 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
They'll be like um, oh, you want to hear the weather. Or they're like you want a joke? Nope, you're gonna have to pay for that. Jokes are a paid feature there.

01:26:31 - Richard Campbell (Host)
We go weather on mars I got.

01:26:34 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Amazon is the worst anyway good answer for weather on mars.

01:26:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Panos, panay and amazon deserve each other how long do you want to start a pool and how long panos will last? I know I don't.

01:26:44 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I'm surprised he's lasted at all. I don't I. This doesn't jive with a whole different culture?

01:26:48
yeah, yeah, I don't, we'll see. Well, you never know. Uh, I'm not even sure I put this in, oh, because probably the ai thing. I think at one point I was going to have an ai section. I was like, yeah, uh, meet, which I actually use Google Meet every day.

01:27:02
I know there's two features, one you can have and one you can't have. The one you can have is auto pip, like picture in picture. So if you're in a Google Meet meeting, which you would typically do in a tab, and you switch away from that tab because you have to look at a presentation or an email related to the meeting, meeting disappears. But now it's going to be in a picture-in-picture thing, right, okay, obvious, you could have done that before. You had to do it manually, but now it's going to be automatic, the one you have to pay for.

01:27:29
So if you're in like a paid Gemini tier of Google Workspace, you're going to get AI meeting notes, which is actually kind of awesome, right. So you have a meeting, two to four, whatever number of people, the meeting organizer, when the meeting is done, a gemini will generate, um, the meeting notes, like someone might have taken, like minutes or whatever. It will store it in that the organizers drive and then put a link to it in the meeting um item in google calendar so everyone click on and go get the meeting notes. So that's I actually think that's there you go. That's helpful. Not something I would pay for, but a good feature of something I would pay for. So yeah, um, so yeah, and I do actually pay for it. I don't pay for the gem integrated into google office and, yeah, sure, that's good, that's good stuff.

01:28:14 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, that's they can. Again it's turning into. These are just features. Yes, there's an agent waiting there, which is not only here's the summary of the meeting, but this is also the work items that each person took on, and then it can go back and nag for them. You know, do the thing that a lot of PMs spend the bulk of the time doing you sit on this date. You would commit to this. Are you done by now? Where are you with this? Do you need help? Yeah, this is very automatable by a smart agent.

01:28:44 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yep, this notion of what? Well, usually with tiers you're charging something for everything, but I always think of Windows. Starting back in Windows XP, we had Home and Pro, basically for individuals, and someone at Microsoft had to sit down with a list of features and say, all right, well, this is going over to pro and this one isn't, and you know that kind of thing. And, um, you know, companies that have AI in their products, like Google and Microsoft, are going to be making those determinations for the next, you know, several years. Like this meeting notes thing is a fantastic idea. I mean, I would hope it comes something like it comes to just consumers who aren't paying extra for that, but at some point, but that's one of those things you have to kind of figure out, you know, as the product designer.

01:29:26 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So we shall see, it's just all text coming back yeah, let's uh let's do some xbox.

01:29:33 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
What do you say? Yeah, so last week was a bonanza of xbox news. This week is not, but we do have a few things. Um, I don't, I don't know. It was last month probably, but there was a. Insiders were testing a bunch of updates for the xbox dashboard. Those are now shipping out in stables, you know to everybody. So if you're an xbox user, you can look for this. It's called the august update.

01:29:54
The biggest thing there is all those discord changes, right, and so they're. They're making the integration of discord and xbox better for everybody. So, um, you know streaming, finding your friends, you know, uh, just, you know communicating with your friends in the console, that kind of thing. Um, it's almost like discord's taking over for the social part of xbox. He says winking, um, because it does have that kind of vibe. Um, yeah, last man standing. Well, you know, for a you. For a little while they had something called Mixer, which was just about game streaming. But Xbox today has social features. You know, you have a friends list, you can chat, you can talk, and they're starting to do this.

01:30:33 - Richard Campbell (Host)
You know, I'm wondering if they're not going to outsource this to Discord More of a grassroots app approach to it.

01:30:38 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, and of course Discord has paid tiers, so some of the features require a paid discord account, right, but that is rolling out. Um, microsoft has an xbox. I guess the xbox part of microsoft has so far been doing a great job dealing with um game studios whose employees want to unionize, right, they've been really good about that, um until now. And apparently, uh, raven software remember these guys started. These were kind of enthusiasts in the 90s who wanted to build games, first on the doom engine and later on quake and so forth. They made uh, hexen and heretic, yeah, things like that, um, they're. They were rolled in at one point to to whatever became activision blizzard, this conglomerate, and and so they're part of that and those guys have been trying to. Well, they did actually, I think they did unionize, but they've actually issued a formal complaint about Microsoft and it's bad faith bargaining with the unionized workers who were trying to reach a collective bargaining agreement.

01:31:39
So my only contribution to the story was Laurent, the guy who writes the news at my site, was talking about this with me and I said I think what we need here is an AI-generated image of a raven wearing worker clothes standing in front of a group of striking workers at a factory and he's like I can't do that and I'm like I'm going to spend the rest of my morning making exactly that picture. It's all about the prompt picture and, uh, that's what I wasted all my time on and that's that's. How did you get a good one?

01:32:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
you know it's an okay hilarious. Let me look, wait a minute. Now we gotta check it. That's pretty good, paul, it's okay, it's okay.

01:32:15 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You know, I tried to uh do this with gemini. Gemini will not do people like I said. So, uh, did you do this with midini? Gemini will not do people like I said. Who did you do this with Midjourney? No, this is Microsoft. Oh, copilot, nice. Yeah, I will say I did it with Copilot, which is designer, but then I put it into Gemini to expand it out using that autofill feature. Right, because the thing it created was Square, because I did it on the wrong version, whatever. Anyway, yeah, thing at creative square.

01:32:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So because I did it on the wrong version, whatever.

01:32:45 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Anyway, yeah, I'm all over, ai, that's, you know. That's what I do. I think I use ai for stupid.

01:32:47 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I can't remember. I can't remember view aspect numbers, but I'm all over ai exactly uh, yeah, okay.

01:32:56 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So I think last month or sometime in the past month, microsoft and amazon announced a partnership to bring Xbox Cloud Gaming which is the cloud streaming service that's part of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate to, I think, just the two newest versions of the Fire Stick hardware, which is like a 4K Max, and probably a Fire TV Stick 4K, something whatever, and now they're starting to expand it to other Fire TV devices. So the Fire TV Stick 4K Max, which is actually three years old, and then the third generation Fire TV Cube, which is a kind of big one that looks like a board cube, which is about a year old, I think. So you know, whatever, I don't know you can connect your controller directly to the device probably Bluetooth, I would imagine, although maybe also with a USB cable, which I would have to think is a much better connection and then you can try a game streaming. I've had such bad results with this, but, depending on your connection, whatever it might be okay, I hope it works. Not a big deal, but it's an option, okay.

01:33:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And that's your Xbox segment. How very exciting. Now I'm going to push a button. I can't wait to see what happens. I have no idea what will happen. He's going to be upside down on the left.

01:34:10 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It worked, I'm here.

01:34:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Hello everybody, our show today brought to you by one last ad. And then it's the back of the book and we are promised with some Danish whiskey. So that should be good. Not some Danish danishes? Hell, does Danish whiskey go with danishes?

01:34:28 - Richard Campbell (Host)
No, no, do they even have danishes in Denmark. No, they don't, they're Viennese. They wouldn't call them Danish anymore than the French call palm frites, french fries.

01:34:39 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
They think that's crazy talk.

01:34:42 - Richard Campbell (Host)
That's like the Simpsons show you must try a lot of fish, of course here we just call them nuts yeah you know, our show today, brought to you by melissa.

01:34:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
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01:37:40
There's another way you support windows weekly, of course, by joining the club. We invite you this is a quick, brief mention to join club twit seven dollars a month. We like to keep the price low so everybody could afford it. You get ad-free versions of this show and all the other shows. You get video and paul's hands-on windows show. We only put out the audio in public. Same with hands-on macintosh, the Untitled Linux show, scott Wilkinson's Home Theater, geeks. There's lots of content.

01:38:06
Special events Stacey's Book Club is coming up. So is our photo walk in New York City. It'll be September 7th. Hope you'll join me at 3 pm to 5 pm in Bryant Park. Then Joe and our club is going to take us out, take photos of Grand Central Station, the Oculus and everything in between. It's going to be really amazing. So all of that supported by a great group of people. You get access to the Discord where you can hang out with them, and it's seven bucks a month. You can pay more if you want and if you can afford it. I would love it if you did, but it starts at seven bucks a month. Just go to twittv slash club twit. Or, if you will scan the qr code in the upper right hand corner of the screen, twittv slash club twit. All right back. We go to the show. We're going to kick things off with paul ferratt and uh, in the back of the book, his, his looks like a tip of the week, paul.

01:39:04 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah. So back in May I published a tip about how you could download the release preview ISO of Windows 11, 24 H2. Just double click it, mount it in the file system, run setup and upgrade to 24 H2. And if you did that, you've been getting all the stable updates ever since you're not in the Insider program, et cetera, et cetera. And as Chevy Chase taught us on SNL, I had a really small Francisco Franco was still dead and this tip still works.

01:39:35
So what's happened in the three-ish months since then is that that build that was new at the time is no longer available. But if you go to the Windows Insider ISO in fact I just loaded it up, where is it? Yeah, download page. The latest release preview channel build is 26100, which is 24-2.1150. No one should remember this stuff, but this was the build that came into stable in July as part of Patch Tuesday, so it was in the release preview two weeks earlier, probably very end of June. So that's how old that build is.

01:40:12
But if you download that ISO today, do what I described mount it, run, setup, let it do its thing, reboot. You come back, you're in state. You'll have to, you know, install the latest monthly cumulative update and optionally the preview update. But you're in stable, right, so you can still do that. Say, if you didn't do it and you thought you missed the window, whatever you didn't like, you can still go. So, fully supported, everything's fine. I mean it's windows, so you know it has, whatever problems windows might have, but um, that tip still works. So if you were wondering about that, wonder no more.

01:40:45 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Um, yeah, and then I think I'm actually gonna get any new features if you do it. Thank you because yes, you do compared to 23.

01:40:52 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Oh, I see what you're saying. Right, yeah, right, yeah. No, you don't. Um, well, you do. Okay, here's one reason to do it, and actually this is the reason I just did it. Um, so so I casually threw this out earlier and didn't really explain it. Amd released their those Ryzen, the new Ryzen processors. Is it Ryzen 5? Getting that right, whatever the gen name is, if you're not running 24H2, which most people aren't, especially if you buy it with a new computer, the performance out of these chips is not as good as it was supposed to be. The work to enable that is apparently in 24H2. And so I have that little laptop we were talking about three weeks ago-ish. That's based on AMD Ryzen chipset and supposedly it's better on the new chips, but it also gives a performance boost to older gen amd ryzen chips. So I installed it just to on that system this morning, just to you know. See what it did. Awesome, um, so I haven't. I don't have anything to report there yet. I just installed it. But, um, yeah, zen 5.

01:41:53 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Sorry, thank you uh and this is this machine's 23h2, so I could probably go for it. Yeah, yeah, um I I would.

01:41:58 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Uh, it's a tough thing to say. Is there a reason not to do this? I mean H2, so I could probably go for it. Yeah, it's a tough thing to say. Is there a reason not to do this? I mean, no, I've done it on lots of computers and, of course, I'm running 24-H2. It's gone through so many iterations at this point. Yeah, it's just like the other supported releases, it's updated every month. There's new features, as we were. Leo was doing one of the ads and I have this system.

01:42:25
I'm actually bringing up with my wind get script and before that I'd updated the apps, uh, that are inbox through the store and I, this is the first time I've seen that store update we talked about, you know, again a week two ago, whatever it was where. Um, it's hard to know when and where things happen, but there's a new version of the store app where downloads are separated from library, right, and so I actually just saw that for the first time and that's that's a 23 H two box, not a 24 H two box. So you never, you know it's a spin the wheel and see what's coming up. Nobody knows. Okay, I don't know. I, all I can do is tell you what I see, yeah, and it's always something different. So, app Pick of the Week a couple of things here.

01:43:05
I mentioned this, I think, last week Win11 Debloat, sorry, which is a PowerShell script you can grab from GitHub. I just recorded an episode of Hands-On Windows so there'll be a video about this and then since then I just wrote up a tip about using it. So this is arguably one of the best cleanup, de-bloat whatever you want to call it, de-insertify Windows 11 utilities I've seen so far. It's a little daunting because it is a PowerShell script, it's a command line thing, but it's pretty straightforward. And the thing that puts us over the top, even for people who might be afraid of this kind of thing, is they actually the author includes standalone reg files for a lot of the changes that he makes to the system through the script, meaning you can go and see what those reg files do and then you can just run those individually. Right, if you only want, if you don't want, like, uh, to make a, like a, you know, 12 or 15 different changes, you only have one or two you can just run the individual script, the individual reg files.

01:44:08
Um, that gave me an idea. I was, I was like it wasn't that day, it was like the next day. I was heading to bed and I was thinking about this, for whatever reason, cause I'm mental and I have been working a lot on that WPF, modernizing my app thing, and I thought to myself wait a minute, powershell's NET WPF is NET. The code in this script, which is freely available and readily readable, is going to be readable to me, because I understand this kind of NET API stuff.

01:44:40 - Richard Campbell (Host)
And.

01:44:40 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I was like what if You're going to put a?

01:44:41 - Richard Campbell (Host)
GUI on it.

01:44:42 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, i'm're going to put a GUI on it. Well, I'm not going to put a GUI on this. But the problem is there's a lot of these apps and none of them are exactly what I want. And I'm like maybe, instead of just complaining about Windows 11, maybe I could write an app that fixes Windows 11. Now you're crazy. Yeah, this is nuts. But I started writing it. How's it going? Yeah, it's going good.

01:45:02
And so the first thing I did was some of the simple stuff. So I wrote a really short article, but this is to kind of see gauge reaction. But I just did a couple of the simplest things. And so the app. I can click a button in my app and it will toggle through the different search buttons you can have in the taskbar in real time. So icon icon with label bar or hidden right and like that worked. Okay, nice. I did task view.

01:45:24
And then, since I wrote this article, I've done some of the more. I'm going to call them complex things. So, for example, one of the things that I like to do is when you plug in a USB drive, it shows the drives or the partitions in the main view of File Explorer over in the navigation pane, but also in the this PC view right, like I don't actually want them over there on the side. If I need them, I'll just go into this PC because they take up, you know, take up space. So this one for this to work, you have to reboot or restart Explorer and I was like I'm going to hammer away on this one and you have to create and delete registry keys Super dangerous, right, yep.

01:46:07
And yeah no, I got that working too and I'm like you know what I can do this.

01:46:10
So I'm going to yeah, I'm going to do something, and the thing I want to do is see what one of the tricks with this kind of thing and the reason other than just intellectual stupidity is. You'll install a feature update or maybe even a monthly update, and it will make changes to the system and not say anything to you. So you might've run this utility at some point or any utility. You made some changes and then you know who knows, these things are all buried in little things and settings somewhere, right. So I'm going to write this in a way that it will come up, it will save your settings obviously you can export them and do all that stuff and then it will compare your desired configuration with what's actually happening in the system. So after you install a cumulative update, you'll be able to compare and see what did it screw with. And that's the thing to me that's missing right in these utilities. So I'm going to kind of create the version like I want and then I'll get feedback from people.

01:47:05 - Richard Campbell (Host)
You'll see what happens.

01:47:07 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, why not? It's fun, I have a lot of free time, I'm not busy, I don't have a business to run or anything. It's good.

01:47:15 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I don't know, my overhead light is packed in for the day.

01:47:20 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I was hoping you saw a ghost in the corner. You had one of those like a YouTube video. Like kid gets scared by ghost looks, You're, like you know, staring up at the light.

01:47:28 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So things have changed. Yep, well, I guess that makes it my turn. Yeah, for a little run as radio this week's show and the end of the month here, when I actually recorded uh in person back at kcdc in june with steve pool talking more of the security uh side of some of these artificial intelligence technologies. So the the angle we came at this was really that often we are, as sysadmins, in a situation where leadership has read something in cio magazine or forbes and are like, okay, we need this and and, uh and so and saying no is not wise, but you do have to present the risks related to it, like all of the things that need to happen, uh, to be successful. And so we started trying to just kind of enumerate a few of those risks and helping people with language to uh to approach this the right way, and part of this is if they're going to start.

01:48:21
Really, we were just talking about the Microsoft related stuff. I want to light up a 365 Copilot. It's like. No, I want to do some work in Python, just stack you've never had before. I want to start using the Huggyface APIs. That brings in a lot of software that you may only be marginally familiar with. Also, you're dealing with a bunch of open source stuff, which now you might have some supply chain issues Like. It's a bunch of work. It takes time. You're never saying no, but you're also doing the right thing. So you do have to work your way through it and have some confidence before you can let it out in the wild and let the devs go at it. So it was a great conversation and just you know things to think about, to to actually get to yes, and to give some confidence that you're not going to harm your business with this new technology.

01:49:09 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I mean you are probably, but but good luck.

01:49:13 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, and then that brings us, you know, really to the back of the book. It's something I've been waiting for for quite some time. So a fellow Microsoft MVP and a Club Twit member, casper Larson I had lunch today and he dropped this off with me and this is the Mossgard Whiskey, moscatel Single Malt. So one of 440 bottles. This is actually bottle 431. It was bottled back in March of 24.

01:49:44
We've talked about Danish whiskey before. I talked about the Stawning back in episode 874, so about 20 episodes ago. Really, denmark didn't get into whiskey until getting into the EEC. A lot of rules changes in 2005 that made it easier for small manufacturers to happen. Stawning was arguably one of the first of the contemporary whiskey makers in Denmark. Mossgard was started in 2015, so somewhat later than that by Jess and Gitte Mossgard. Jess Mossgard was the CTO of a company called Libertone, which still exists today. They make high-end audio equipment using Wi-Fi, so think of a sort of Scandinavian-style Sonos-type technology, Although, curiously, they had a. Well, it was a startup company. It was funded, they had a major acquisition event in 2014 by Hong Kong Consortium and just left in 2015 to start Mossgard. So well, maybe he made some money. I hope he did, because he turned it into whiskey, and that's not a bad thing.

01:50:47
The distillery itself is in southern Finn, which is down in the South Fudan Archipelago, just west of Copenhagen and close to the border with Germany. There although it's on the waterway so it's a fair bit off, it's an old farm. They have apple trees and things like that. They are buying local organic barley it's a great growing region for barley, so there's tons of it. Their water is heavily calcified, so lime water, the same sort of stuff the Americans use for bourbon because it tastes good, and they have handmade stills from Portugal. In fact, they do a lot of Portuguese-related things which I found interesting, including a ton of different kinds of barrels from Portugal for sherry and for Spanish and port as well. Like most micro distilleries, they make a gin, because you can get that out on year one, where whiskey takes somewhat longer. They started in 2015. Their first bottlings of whiskey don't come till 2019.

01:51:46
This particular edition again only in 2024. This is a cast strength single malt, uh, and they again only made 440 bottles of it. Sells for about a thousand danish kroner. It was only available in denmark. I got bottle 431 and uh, so roughly about 150 us dollars. So I hate to show you guys a whiskey that you can't buy, but you probably can't buy it. And the reason is not only was it a tiny small batch that was only run once, but this won the 2024 World Whiskey Award for Best Single Malt from a small batch company. So yeah, stunning, unbelievable that they pulled this company. So yeah, stunning, Unbelievable, they pulled us off. They uh, so organic barley from, uh, from Denmark. They then put it into Jim bean casts for three and a half years. So American, uh, bourbon, classic thing to do on the initial round. And then did a year and a half in Moscow tell Sherry.

01:52:39
Um, moscow tell is a different sherry than most. The vast majority of sherries are actually made with the Palomino grape. There's actually there's three different green grapes that they use in the areas to make sherry, and Palomino makes the 90% of it. It's that's what makes the very dry sherries that most people are familiar with. The other two are Pedro Jimenez, or the. They're called PX and Moscatel. Their grapes are raisined, so after they're picked, they're laid out on a sheet and they're dried in the sun. This is similar to the Amarone process out of Piedmont for Italian wine, and they make a much sweeter sherry. Typically, when sherry is made, it's fortified with grape spirit and they'll often only do it to 15% to allow a certain amount of yeast action to continue and reduce the sweetness by consuming all the sugars. But when you're doing moscatel, you raise it up to 18%, which wipes out the yeast and so the sugars are gone. They stay in place.

01:53:38
It's then aged in Spanish oak and one of the most asked I may end up having to do a whole show, a whole bit, just on sherry alone. Because what's the weird thing about sherry? It's their barreling techniques. So they blend their barrels together but do it a particular way. Their oldest barrels are on the bottom stack and then there's a second stack and a third stack, and by law they're only allowed to take a 30% out of the bottom tier barrel out to actually make a bottling, and then they refill that bottle with the stack above it and then refill that barrel from the stack above that and then put new make in the top stack, and which is why you always get a minimum of three years of aging for any Moscatels. So that's the sort of flavor that they've used.

01:54:24
Here is this rather sweet cherry barrel, and also a year and a half is really quite a long time. Most of the time when I see whiskeys that have done a finishing in a sherry it's under a year, six months, nine months and that's about it. But this you, you know, went 18. So right off the bat, 57 alcohol. So there went your nose hairs right. You took a big snort of that and it just so you say goodbye, uh. And then, but fruity got a little sweetness to it, big sip um off the right, off the front. It's not a lot of front but a whole lot of back. So it goes burning on down and it's got is that a good thing or no?

01:55:12
yeah, curious, it's a hit because he's a relatively young whiskey.

01:55:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So wow, I buy risky.

01:55:21 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I want it to go burning on down yeah my instinct on this would be to immediately add a little bit of water to it. 57% is a lot, so I just put a little drip of water into this, give it a bit of a swirl.

01:55:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And I can see the cask strength.

01:55:37 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I mean yeah, it's 57%, so I can see threading. I can see that there's congeners breaking down there, so this is going to change this whiskey. No, it's just the stain, but I didn't get the burn so definitely. We broke in the 57 why?

01:55:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
why would why?

01:55:51 - Richard Campbell (Host)
does a little bit of water break that? Well, you're, you're only trying to, you're not trying to get it to 20, right, right, so you figure this.

01:55:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You're just reducing the proof.

01:56:00 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Okay, I reduce the proof. I'll probably put it down to about 45, you know where you'd probably want it. So yeah, the heat's gone. You know it's still warming. The real question is did you lose some of those cooler flavors right, that citrus note and so forth, some of the vanillins, because sometimes those break as well. But I don't think so. I think this became a lot nicer with a splash of water. Look at that.

01:56:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
In the words of Kenny Loggins yeah.

01:56:27 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Going into 57%. There was only ever 440 bottles in the first place. I have one of them and it's going to be empty within the next two days Because I'm not taking it home. But there is a whole bunch of other whiskey made by Musgard and you should try some if you can find it. These are not widely exported.

01:56:50
This is another one of those 21st century small production companies that seems to want to stay that way. They're doing a lot of custom barrelings for whiskey clubs, that sort of thing, because they can afford to. In fact, I've got a couple of other whiskey distillers I've been looking at lately that do a lot of custom barrelings for clubs and things. So that might be a way to find it to get involved with a club that has a relationship with them that does an edition where they may only make 40 or 50 bottles and one of them will be yours. But if you're in Denmark, especially in Copenhagen, with some very nice whiskey stores, you can find Moscow on the shelf there.

01:57:24
But you'll find one of the other additions, often finished in Sherry and poor casks. That's what I got, so I'm very happy to find this. It's one of those rare unicorn type whiskeys, uh, and once again, and so I'm happy to share it with you guys, and we'll get back to something more findable, although I spent a couple of days in the Netherlands and fell in with an even weirder, rare whiskey. We'll get to that. That's awesome.

01:57:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, Richard, I think you're going to be going to bed a little early tonight.

01:57:56 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It's not that early man.

01:57:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's 10 o'clock here, all right.

01:58:05 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Take that bottle a long day, right, I gotta, I gotta break out of this hotel room uh, that I got the space for and pack everything up, get it back to the house, back to the hotel.

01:58:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So oh, you're at a different, you're a different room yeah, I'm in a different.

01:58:15 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I mean, I've got the conference provided me with a room to do.

01:58:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, thank you, I appreciate the extra effort. You know what your bandwidth is better than mine, so you, you seem to be fixed up.

01:58:25 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Now, dude, you're staying.

01:58:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You look stable and not framing anymore I'm on starlink because comcast just failed over starling's pretty good satellite right now. That's what it is, yeah we well, we installed starlink uh two days ago and we had to use it almost immediately because Comcast. It was a hot day yesterday and Comcast decided it didn't want to work.

01:58:45 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Good timing, yeah so we're still on Starlink. You know I got my concerns about Elon, but the product's pretty great.

01:58:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I completely agree with you. I feel guilty using it, but I love it. We also are having internal networking issues, and I think that's due to sonos. Um, but we're, but russell's really good with this stuff. He's working on it. And then there's the user error. That's uh, all my fault and uh, and I'm just, I'm still, I'm still, I thought I understood I am.

01:59:16 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I don't know if it's bothering people in the discord about the sliding around, but it makes me grin every time you do it it bothers me.

01:59:23 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't want to do it, but until I get it down I have to. I'm trying different, different things and I apologize, uh, and your brain's just dropped off again, so there you go yeah, I I don't know if I like the, I kind of prefer this. I don't know if I like the slots like this or this.

01:59:38 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I kind of like this that's got style it, yeah, and it gets rid of the head alignment thing.

01:59:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yes, because otherwise it's like a calliope and I'm the pipe that's not working. So, ladies and gentlemen, you've been watching an experimental edition of Windows. We are moving to the new studio. The studio is great. It's working well. There's some noise issue, there's some heat issues, but there's some Internet issues and then there's some Leo issues. We're going to work on those one by one.

02:00:16 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
And not in that order.

02:00:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But there's never an issue with these two guys, these two, these two cats right here paul thurot, richard campbell uh, we appreciate everything you guys do which is at run as radio dot com. That's where his podcasts live run as radio and dot net rocks. He also is a world speaker. Who's your speaker bureau? We never plug your speaker bureau. Do you want to? I don't work. I just work from through myself, so you don't have somebody booking you, you just do it your own I get a lot of.

02:00:48 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I just say no, a lot. I call I get lots of calls you you.

02:00:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You obviously are in hot high demand he's the kind of the richard hart, not richard hark.

02:00:58 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You know the richard, the Richard Hart, not Richard Hart.

02:01:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
The Richard Campbell of podcasting is what you are, sir.

02:01:02
He's the Kevin Hart of tech speakers or something. Anyway, great to have you, richard Paul Thurott, of course, at thurottcom. T-h-u-r-r-o-t-t. That's where his blog is, and if you are a serious fan, you're going to subscribe to the premium version because you get all sorts of additional content. It's a rotcom. His books are at lean pubcom. Windows everywhere, which isa history of windows through the ages and, more importantly, through its development platforms. And, of course, the field guide to windows 11, which is a must have. Um and windows 10 is built into there. So all of that is available at lean pubcom. You set your own price there, which is pretty cool, and you get automatic updates, things like that.

02:01:45
We do Windows Weekly, as I mentioned, every Wednesday, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern Time, 1800 UTC. The live streams Count them, seven of them. You can find a live stream on almost any live streaming platform and watch Chat along with us If the platform supports chat. I see all the chats. I see Atle Stein Davidson in the YouTube. I see Chocolate Milk, mini Sip in our Discord, jim Simons in YouTube. I've seen people in X and Twitch. It's great to have you all.

02:02:21
Thank you for watching. After the fact, you can get your show at twittv slash www. We put an audio version and a video version up there so you can choose from that. There's also a video version at YouTube, youtubecom slash windows weekly show. There's also and this is probably the best way to get it podcast. You can subscribe and get it automatically every single week so you can listen at your leisure. I hope you'll do one of those. I also hope you'll subscribe to the club so that we can count you as one of our club twit members. Only seven bucks a month. Thanks, paul, thanks richard, appreciate it. Thanks to all of you for watching. We'll see you next week on windows weekly week on Windows Weekly.