This Week in Google 720, Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for TWiG this week in Google. Jeff Jarvis is here. Ant Pruitt's sitting right next to me. I hope he doesn't punch me. And Stacey Higginbotham is here. We will talk about the EU saying Google's ad model. Eh, it's kind of illegal. The revolt at Reddit. It's getting worse. And Congress decides AI doesn't deserve Section two 30 protection. Did it ever have it? It's all coming up next on Twig podcasts you love from people you trust Twig. This is Twig this week in Google. Episode 720. Recorded Wednesday, June 14th, 2023 Beyond Baby. This week in Google is brought to you by Fast Mail, reclaim your privacy, boost productivity, and make email yours with fast mail. Try it now free for 30 days@fastmail.com slash twit and buy Ag one by Athletic Greens. If you're looking for a simpler and cost effective supplement routine Ag one s giving away a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase of a subscription, go to athletic greens.com/twig and buy Melissa more than 10,000 clients worldwide. Rely on Melissa for full spectrum data quality and ID verification software. Make sure your customer contact data is up to date. Get started today with 1000 records cleaned for free at melissa.com/twi.

(00:01:45):
It's time for Twig this week in G Jaws, giras, and ga. Jesus. Jesus, Jesus with a G. Well, I don't wanna say Google cuz there's only a little bit about Google. We, we get to it eventually. That's Aunt Pruit. We get to it eventually. That's the name of the show. You just gave us a show title. We get to it eventually. We get to it eventually. Aunt pruitt.com/prince. Nice to see you aunt. You too sir. Good to see you as always. Also with us, that's theor the jovial of Mr. Jeff Jarvis. Hello, jj. Hey Jeff. A blazer in a blazer. Normally he is just a t-shirt guy. You must have worked today. Yeah. One in New York had a breakfast meeting. He went into New York. Wow. Ladi da ladi da. Did you fly in a helicopter? Like in succession? Succession <laugh>. He's the line who tap professor for journalistic innovation. Don't you know at the Craig Numark? Craig Craig, graduate school of Journalism at the City University of New York. Hello everyone. And hello Craig too. Also here. Stacy Higginbotham's from Stacy in iot.com. The in amenable Stacey. Hi Stacey. And Kevin Tol do that IOT podcast. She's our chip and iot guru. And also the sensible person on the team.

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:20):
Actually.

Leo Laporte (00:03:21):
Indeed. An sensible too. I think ant's pretty sensible.

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:24):
Yeah, actually, yeah. I think yeah. Ant

Leo Laporte (00:03:26):
The two of you. And then Jeff and I are like crazy.

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:28):
Yeah. Yeah. We

Leo Laporte (00:03:29):
Just <laugh>

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:32):
This is, this is what long life does to you. You know, it turns your nuts. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:03:35):
So it is, it is really a grab bag of stories today.

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:40):
It is a

Leo Laporte (00:03:40):
Potpourri. A potpourri. But there was a big story this morning. I actually got up at six o'clock or more, like five 30 because I read this story and I leapt from bed. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> saying, oh, no, no, no.

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:56):
Tell, tell me you were address. Tell me. Just tell me that please.

Leo Laporte (00:03:58):
<Laugh>. I was dressed. I was okay. Fully addressed. The EU has filed new antitrust charges against Google saying it's online advertising practices violate antitrust laws. Basically. <laugh> oh. They're saying your, your, you know, your monetization strategy. Google. It's illegal. Google was charged on Wednesday with violating EU anti-trust laws by using its dominance and online advertising to undercut rivals. The case brought by the European Commission, according to the New York Times, the executive branch of the 27 Nation eu. Fourth time Google's been charged with violating European antitrust laws in recent years. At some point they're gonna stop. What

Jeff Jarvis (00:04:43):
Amazingly is, it took them this long to get to the, to the, the

Leo Laporte (00:04:47):
Number of it, the real issue.

Jeff Jarvis (00:04:48):
Antitrust wasn't about the browser, it wasn't about search, it wasn't about shopping, it was about advertising. Yeah. I've always said that

Leo Laporte (00:04:55):
The Justice Department brought similar charges in January. It's the online advertising, which I have to say where Google really does kind of push it with that by be both as seller and the buyer. You know, the controlling both ends. It's kind of a classic antitrust case if you ask me. Yeah, yeah. But it's where

Jeff Jarvis (00:05:16):
They've always been vulnerable. Cause they also have the power of

Leo Laporte (00:05:18):
God over it. Yeah. And I should point out that Google's dominance and success in this field comes at the expense of everybody else who's advertising base. Yesterday or actually earlier today, Paul Thta Windows Weekly saying, yeah, he can't survive his website, can't survive on ads alone. He needs a club and mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, frankly, we're kind of in the same boat. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> where our advertising sales, well, don't, don't

Jeff Jarvis (00:05:42):
Advertise it, you know.

Leo Laporte (00:05:43):
No, we don't. No, but I'm saying is all our advertisers come to us, let's say Athletic Greens. They're the, our competition is Google Ads. Yeah. Not whether we use it. We do use Google Ads, by the way. Of course we do. Everybody does. Everybody does. We buy Google Ads to promote the shows.

Ant Pruitt (00:05:58):
Even my domain. Oh, that

Leo Laporte (00:05:59):
Way. Yeah. Yeah. But our sponsors are saying, well, should I buy Google Ads where I know exactly who I'm getting? It's extremely efficient. Buy I know, you know, click Fraud Aside, which I suppose is still a little bit of a problem. But I mean, you could, every medium has that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> you know, you don't, I can't prove to you that whoever listens to this show heard your ad. They might have gotten up and got a sandwich. Right. Or Fast forwarded. We don't know that. How dare they, how dare they <laugh>. But that's been the problem with advertising forever. Right. It's the problem with Absolutely Forever with magazines, which assert that. Well, every the pass around is seven to one <laugh> Forever. No. You know, or with TV advertising we don't, they don't know. So, but, but, but I think lately, agencies and ad buyers are more believe in the digital cause It's digital, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, the accuracy of Google's click rates and all, they get metrics they

Jeff Jarvis (00:06:55):
Can target. They can be more efficient.

Ant Pruitt (00:06:57):
Can dude metrics get so useful from a marketing standpoint though? Yep. It, it, it's so powerful when you know where everything is coming from, even down to the, the hours of the day. So

Leo Laporte (00:07:07):
Just stop selling people on Google. <Laugh> <laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (00:07:12):
I

Leo Laporte (00:07:12):
Mean, I, I can't tell him any of that stuff. Oh

Ant Pruitt (00:07:14):
Gosh. Even down to like YouTube and knowing when people are watching your videos. Okay. I should publish now. Cause they're gonna be looking Oh, sorry. X Day.

Jeff Jarvis (00:07:26):
Don't

Ant Pruitt (00:07:27):
That

Leo Laporte (00:07:28):
Just, oh, athletic Greens is skulled <laugh> no more. Alphabet made 60 billion in profit last year selling advertising. That's crazy. But if, if

Jeff Jarvis (00:07:39):
You were gonna split up Google, how would you split it up?

Leo Laporte (00:07:42):
Well, that's a good question. I, I think the first thing you gotta do, but, you know, the biggest problem to me is that Google both makes the market, you know, and, and sells the ads. Yeah. So, you know, when they bought was it Overture when they bought, started buying up all the ad tech companies, that's when the problem began. Well, double click, double click, double click,

Ant Pruitt (00:08:01):
Double

Leo Laporte (00:08:01):
Click. Yeah. And so I, you know, I overture was

Jeff Jarvis (00:08:04):
Bill Gross's company at

Leo Laporte (00:08:05):
Yahoo that went to then and that went to Microsoft. Right. Eventually,

Jeff Jarvis (00:08:09):
Which, which caused the big, you know, a huge settlement because Google basically stole the model from

Leo Laporte (00:08:15):
Bill. Right. Oh, really? So they gave him some money. Yeah. Did they give him $60 billion? Not quite. And they got ripped off

Ant Pruitt (00:08:23):
<Laugh>. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:08:24):
Because that's what they made last year, man. Crazy with, with that technology. So you know, I mean, they're really eating up the world. And, and it's tough for everybody else. I, I think that, I've always said Google should be a search engine and just a search engine. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I guess they could do ad sales on that, but they shouldn't have YouTube. They shouldn't have content at all. Cuz that's also a conflict of interest because in the search results, their content. Well,

Jeff Jarvis (00:08:56):
Well, if you're gonna take that away for Well,

Ant Pruitt (00:08:58):
Yeah, they're

Jeff Jarvis (00:08:58):
Gonna put, but you're gonna getting down to the, to the Marrow. What about something a little less radical? Like get rid of either the buy side or the sell side.

Leo Laporte (00:09:06):
Yeah. Yeah, that'd be fine. Marguerite, the Vesti, the the VP of the European Commission said Google is present at almost all levels of the so-called ad tech supply chain. That's exactly what you were saying, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, they they do buy and sell. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (00:09:27):
But I'm with Mr. Jarvis, what took so long for this to come out. Why, why now?

Jeff Jarvis (00:09:32):
Cause they wanted to go after big bad Google. And the things that were right in front of their eyes were search and browser. The, the shopping thing was European stupidity. It was, it was it was, what's his name? What's the other service that he always gets mad at Google? I can't remember the name of it. But, but that's, they went after that silly stuff. The, the question long ago should have been advertising. And I don't think Google should have to get rid of it all, but they clearly do have a iron grip.

Leo Laporte (00:10:03):
Yeah. And it's bad. Not, it's bad for everybody. I mean it's bad for advertisers too, because there's not a market, you know, free market. It's bad for everybody who's ADSD supported, like us and Paul Thra. Because Stacy,

Jeff Jarvis (00:10:16):
Do you use any Google ad products, even from analytics or whatever?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:10:21):
I think we use analytics.

Leo Laporte (00:10:23):
Yeah. We use analytics too. Yeah. I don't know what the answer is. It's hard to, it's hard to split companies up after, you know, the, the <laugh> you know, you really, the best place to stop 'em is before they make the acquisitions. Like, stop, don't buy double click. But too late. But

Jeff Jarvis (00:10:42):
You, but, but I guess

Ant Pruitt (00:10:43):
Double click Is that, is that, you might

Jeff Jarvis (00:10:44):
Though,

Ant Pruitt (00:10:45):
Is it fair though?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:10:46):
Cause Well, there were people there. Yeah. I mean, Microsoft, I'm sure we're gonna talk about the FTC suing to stop Microsoft from buying Activision. Yeah. it's totally fair to be like hey, this looks like anti, and people actually argued this when Google made some of these acquisitions. They were like wait a second. And the thing Google argued that the search market was not a big deal and there was still competition. This is very common across all of these industries. Yeah. They argue that it's, it's such a small industry. There's still competition in all these other industries.

Ant Pruitt (00:11:22):
So

Stacey Higginbotham (00:11:23):
We don't need to worry about that here. And then voila, it gets big.

Jeff Jarvis (00:11:29):
Yeah. When, when, when Facebook bought Instagram, Instagram was tiny with like three employees and nobody could really see what it was gonna be. But I think

Stacey Higginbotham (00:11:37):
There were 12 <laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (00:11:38):
Okay. <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:11:38):
It wasn't very many. No, he's right. It was a handful. It was very small.

Jeff Jarvis (00:11:42):
But double Click was an important established. And same with YouTube. Youtube was, why are you crazy buying this thing? It's gonna cost you a fortune And, and data communication. You're foolish. But Double Click was the one I think that could have been seen. I think you're right.

Leo Laporte (00:11:59):
S anyway the EU and the US Department of Justice both investigating Google will I, you know, I just, I can't imagine that anything, anything that will significantly change the world will happen. But I guess, you know, I feel a little vindicated. You know, the truth is, it hurts Google too. Cuz honestly, Google is not as good a search engine. Am I wrong? But I feel like Google is not as good a search engine as it was.

Ant Pruitt (00:12:31):
As it was. But in comparison to what now? Well, <laugh>, yes. I mean, why do they need to be any better? If, if the competition isn't necessarily, let me

Leo Laporte (00:12:39):
Look for Ant It's the

Jeff Jarvis (00:12:40):
Web that Leo, it's not Google's worst. It's the web that's

Ant Pruitt (00:12:43):
Worse. You find me? It's gonna, you're gonna get some pretty interesting stuff.

Leo Laporte (00:12:46):
Almost always what will happen with Google is the top is above the fold, will not be search results. Search results will end up below the fold. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it's the knowledge box, the YouTube videos the, you all the other experiences above the fold. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and Google's argument. Let's, let's search for something more reasonable like used cars in Caif in San Francisco.

Ant Pruitt (00:13:10):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:13:13):
Now I get search results. Look at that. Yep.

Jeff Jarvis (00:13:17):
Well that's,

Leo Laporte (00:13:18):
That's interesting.

Ant Pruitt (00:13:19):
But again, if you're looking, I can't

Jeff Jarvis (00:13:20):
Read it cuz it's a dark boat.

Ant Pruitt (00:13:22):
Yes, you can You stop that.

Leo Laporte (00:13:24):
I'll make it bigger. <Laugh>,

Ant Pruitt (00:13:26):
Don't blame dark mode for your Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:13:28):
Honestly, isn't that easier to read?

Jeff Jarvis (00:13:30):
No,

Leo Laporte (00:13:31):
It hurts my eyes.

Ant Pruitt (00:13:33):
You need to get, get better magnification on your readers. Mr. Jars.

Leo Laporte (00:13:37):
Rock and roll music. What should I search for?

Jeff Jarvis (00:13:41):
Gutenberg did not publish on black paper with white ink. Gutenberg published on white paper with black ink. And that's the way. God, there

Leo Laporte (00:13:49):
Ain't no paper here, dude. What's the, where's the paper? And the ink? Jesus. Where's the ink? Jesus. It's a lighted device. Beaming light into your eyes. No, you're

Jeff Jarvis (00:13:59):
Not using the light. You're trying to mask

Leo Laporte (00:14:01):
All the light. It makes no sense. Un dark. It. Where's the dark button?

Ant Pruitt (00:14:04):
Where's his heart? Good.

Leo Laporte (00:14:05):
There you. Oh, un dark.

Ant Pruitt (00:14:07):
Oh my gosh.

Leo Laporte (00:14:08):
Oh,

Jeff Jarvis (00:14:09):
Yay. So the

Ant Pruitt (00:14:10):
Relief. That's ridiculous.

Leo Laporte (00:14:11):
So bright. Anyway, I searched for rock and roll music. Yep. I got songs. I bet you every one of these songs is from YouTube music. I got YouTube. I got YouTube, I got YouTube, I got YouTube. I got people also asked, I got YouTube. There's Wikipedia. That's about, you know, that's several scrolls down. Well,

Jeff Jarvis (00:14:33):
We don't know what 10 what, what screen is anymore. Cause it's the constant.

Leo Laporte (00:14:36):
That's true.

Ant Pruitt (00:14:37):
Well, well let's think about this from the standpoint of the quote unquote normals. Someone's searching for rock and roll music.

Leo Laporte (00:14:44):
They're probably, that's what Google says. More

Ant Pruitt (00:14:45):
Apt to, to, to click on

Leo Laporte (00:14:47):
These. Google says, we want to give you the answers that you're looking for. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jeff Jarvis (00:14:51):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, which is what people want. And they know it for the data.

Leo Laporte (00:14:55):
So, but I honestly, I, I feel like the, let me see, more likely, I'm gonna say a more likely search is how do I replace the battery in my phone?

Ant Pruitt (00:15:06):
And that should bring up a video because nobody wants to read,

Leo Laporte (00:15:10):
Read about, I don't wanna watch this video.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:15:11):
I never want a video. Hate you. I should, I hate

Leo Laporte (00:15:14):
You

Ant Pruitt (00:15:14):
Write Stacey. But again, you all are not the normal group.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:15:18):
<Laugh>. I feel like I'm pretty normal in this. I just, I I'm like, oh God, a fricking video. It's, how do I

Jeff Jarvis (00:15:24):
Find a Google out on the keyboard? Here's a five minute video mock talk to,

Ant Pruitt (00:15:29):
There's a reason, the reason there

Stacey Higginbotham (00:15:30):
Was a video that was like, here's how to change the battery to your phone. It'd be fine, but I gotta dig through this guy selling me something.

Ant Pruitt (00:15:37):
<Laugh>. But there's a reason those videos do really well on TikTok too, is because nobody wants to read about stuff like

Leo Laporte (00:15:43):
That. Takes a video platform. Know you couldn't read about it. Exactly. No, but I'm just

Stacey Higginbotham (00:15:47):
Not. Well, and I'm, I'm fine if it gives me, if if I knew videos I could get it in like 60 seconds or less. Yeah. Great. Cuz that's about how long it takes me to click load and read through. Yes. Get

Leo Laporte (00:15:57):
The information. Great. So I just searched for a UFC Ultimate Fighting Championship. Ooh. This is why publishers are kind of mad, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I'm getting everything I need from Google. I don't need to dig down.

Jeff Jarvis (00:16:08):
That's commodity. Well cuz the pub, cuz every publisher is gonna give you the exact same information as everybody other publisher. And in an enlightened society, you can't own information.

Leo Laporte (00:16:15):
Okay. So because information is commoditized now that

Jeff Jarvis (00:16:21):
It's always been the case, the information only the treatment of it. And so if you don't do something special publisher, then

Leo Laporte (00:16:26):
Well, but if, even if you did something special, Google would not put it above the fold, let's

Jeff Jarvis (00:16:32):
Say. Right. But if you wanna really, really read what the athletic has to say about some sporting thing, then you would go to the Athletic. You might go there directly. You wouldn't go through Google. There's so little of that in news and media because everybody just wants to use commodity information to get more SEO and click.

Leo Laporte (00:16:47):
But it was kind of Google that got us there. Right. We do that because the only way you could get traffic to your site was through Google. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So we game Google. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:16:57):
Yeah. And Google always said,

Ant Pruitt (00:16:58):
Starts a company with, you're not gonna

Jeff Jarvis (00:17:00):
Win that way in the long run as everybody else came. Do the same

Leo Laporte (00:17:02):
Thing to

Ant Pruitt (00:17:03):
Be at the front.

Leo Laporte (00:17:06):
Well,

Jeff Jarvis (00:17:06):
Daddy Sullivan said something

Stacey Higginbotham (00:17:07):
That don't think people, so people used to also just, we would repeat information because we knew our audience needed it and we didn't know if they were getting it elsewhere. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like most normal people don't visit 30 news sites a day. So I'm just saying that like, it's not just all about seo. Cuz I used to argue, I'd be like, dude, I've already seen this story in three other places. And I'd be like, I'd be like, write it. Our people don't necessarily read those places. I'm like,

Leo Laporte (00:17:34):
Fine. The reason you see it and all those other places is cuz it drives a lot of traffic. So write it <laugh>. And that's what AI for

Jeff Jarvis (00:17:42):
Smith wrote about it in traffic is, is that it was the, it's the pursuit of everybody having the same thing. And the, and the great example of the two-color dress story, everybody wrote that story, right? I mean, nothing.

Leo Laporte (00:17:54):
So it became a commodity.

Jeff Jarvis (00:17:55):
Okay. I'm thinking less about the two-color dress and more about actual

Leo Laporte (00:17:58):
News. Well, like, should I buy mutual funds? That's, you know, CNET realized all its personal finance stories should be written by robots because

Jeff Jarvis (00:18:06):
That worked well. Yeah. <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:18:08):
Whoops. <laugh>. So one way people have been fixing Google search for some time I've been doing this is by adding site colon reddit.com and saying Search Reddit videos. Oh. So

Jeff Jarvis (00:18:18):
Much for that. Well,

Leo Laporte (00:18:21):
Yeah. So how's that

Jeff Jarvis (00:18:22):
Working out for you this week? <Laugh>?

Leo Laporte (00:18:24):
This is a story from j Peters and the Verge, Google's getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts. That's a funny headline. Reddit's community filtered posts are a great way to beat search engine ads and spam. But what happens when parts of the Internet's biggest forum turn out the lights? So this battle as, and we reported on this last week, it all started because I think honestly, Reddit, which is facing an I P o, decided we should get rid of these third party clients. They decided, but we're not gonna do it dumb like Elon Musk did and just turn off the lights. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, we're gonna pretend that we actually like third party clients, but we're gonna just say, yo, look you guys, you're taking a lot of traffic from us. It's costing us money, so we're gonna charge you 24 cents for every thousand impressions. Okay. Which ends up being an untenable amount of money. In other words, I think the board said, okay, so this is how we do it. Instead of saying, no, we don't want third party apps. We just charge 'em so much that they go outta business. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Well,

Jeff Jarvis (00:19:23):
Let me ask you a question, Leo. I thought that they were doing this because they want, they thought they had a bonanza of cash to be gotten from OpenAI and company.

Leo Laporte (00:19:30):
Well, this is, yeah. So I understand the, what I, I understand from both sides. So Steve Huffman as usual,

Jeff Jarvis (00:19:36):
Leo as

Leo Laporte (00:19:37):
Usual, I'm a both sides kind of guy. Yes, you

Jeff Jarvis (00:19:39):
Are. You

Leo Laporte (00:19:39):
Understand. And I know I've interviewed Steve on Triangulation and Alexis Ohanian. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, I mean, Google was a, Reddit was a copy of Dig. And Kevin Rose was a good friend. So I've been there since the very beginning. I love Reddit. I use it every day. I think it's the greatest thing ever. But let's not forget, Reddit is not the content. Reddit's the platform. The content is created by community.

Jeff Jarvis (00:20:00):
Yes. The community.

Leo Laporte (00:20:01):
And let's not forget very important, the moderators who are all volunteer, who put in a huge amount of time and effort Right. To create those communities and maintain them. Right. It's a big, big effort. So moderators are saying, well, wait a minute. We use ap, the API for some of our tools. So Reddit says, oh, no, no, don't worry. We'll, we'll make that work. But, but it's really clear now that Reddit just said, what they really said was, we want to get rid of these third party tools. And the reason is my

Jeff Jarvis (00:20:30):
Twitter did

Leo Laporte (00:20:30):
The day. And the reason they're gonna do it for the same reason Twitter did. Because if you're using Apollo, which is my favorite Reddit line, I'm not seeing the ads. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, because Apollo, cause the ads don't serve the API doesn't serve ads. That's not what the advertisers want. So suddenly you're losing a lot of revenue. These guys are sucking bandwidth. So I understand. And it's certainly their right to do. So.

Jeff Jarvis (00:20:52):
Is there a middle ground?

Leo Laporte (00:20:54):
Well, the other thing they did, which really tells you what they were after they said, oh, and by the way, no adult content will be served by the api. If you want adult content, you gotta come to Reddit directly. Now, I don't know, they know how much that drives traffic, but legacy,

Jeff Jarvis (00:21:09):
That's lot of money,

Leo Laporte (00:21:09):
Dude. It's a significant amount of traffic. That's a lot. And once again, you could make the case that the adult content posted on Reddit is really just stolen from adult film mm-hmm. <Affirmative> Studio Yes. Services. It's stolen itself, itself.

Jeff Jarvis (00:21:22):
That is copyright theft. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:21:24):
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:21:25):
Not, not that I've ever seen any of it personally, but what I'm told that's the case. Right. I, I put in the rundown. E f had a really good piece about what Reddit has done Right. And what Reddit did wrong. In this case,

Leo Laporte (00:21:37):
It's, I would say it's within their rights to do what they're doing. Yeah. But their mistake is in misunderstanding how deeply Redditors would feel about this. In fact, because they're

Jeff Jarvis (00:21:49):
The ones who create

Leo Laporte (00:21:50):
The value. Yeah. Right. In fact, there was a memo that Steve Huffman circulated with Reddit employees saying, look, look, look, look, look. He said a couple things. One, don't wear your Reddit gear outside cuz you're gonna, people are mad <laugh>. Mm-Hmm.

Jeff Jarvis (00:22:05):
<Affirmative>, you think two,

Leo Laporte (00:22:06):
You think two, don't worry. It's gonna blow over. And then of course somebody leaked it to the verge. And that really incensed

Jeff Jarvis (00:22:15):
Famous last words.

Leo Laporte (00:22:16):
Yeah. So the original boycott was supposed to be Monday through Wednesday. Supposed to be over today. But a number of big sites are slash our music r slash iPhone said, no, no, we're dark forever. We're gonna move or we're gonna something. We're just gonna this, you know, we Oh, thanks a lot Steve. We're gonna go dark now. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So now Reddit is a, a shadow of its former self. I have to think its, i p o is jeopardized. What, let me, let's see. Here's what Reddit got wrong. This is from Rory Murr writing yesterday at the Electronic Frontier Foundation after weeks of burning through users' goodwill. Yes. Reddit is facing a moderator strike. That's what's really going on. Cuz because we users aren't necessarily boycotting Reddit, but the moderators are the ones who keep the content up there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and an exodus of its most important users. It's the latest example of a social media site making a critical mistake. Users aren't there for the services, they're there for the community. We're not there for the platform that Reddit provides. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, we're there for the content that we provide.

Jeff Jarvis (00:23:21):
Amen. The conversation. That's, that's everything. Yep.

Leo Laporte (00:23:24):
Building barriers to access is a war of attrition. Says the E f I don't, you know, I'm sympathetic. I understand. They want, they need the revenue. It's expensive. They've never made a profit. And, and one of the things Steve Hoffman said, Huffman said that's really Yeah. To Christian Selig is you make money on Apollo, you make a lot of money on Apollo. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, we make no money. Is that fair?

Ant Pruitt (00:23:52):
Yeah. He, I I I get it. Business is business. But again, I still wonder if there's some type of middle ground that could be put in place for the community. Yeah. Because charging that amount of money and, and just sort of putting people out business is one thing. But maybe

Leo Laporte (00:24:08):
Cory doctor, I would say we are in stage two in certification.

Ant Pruitt (00:24:12):
Oh boy. <Laugh>. Oh boy.

Leo Laporte (00:24:16):
Well,

Jeff Jarvis (00:24:16):
And, and I think you know, one thing the E f F piece says, which I think is so important, is that we know that content moderation at scale as impossible. Bache Mike Masnick. Yeah. And so what Reddit did that's so important is to descale conversation down from Twitter and Facebook. Yeah. Put it in the hands of each community. Yep. Make that work. But it only works if you respect the labor. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> mostly free of the moderators and the contributors when you act like you have the value and they don't Yeah. They needed to find a way to share that value with the moderators and with the contributors, then they would've had a aligned interest. Okay, fine. Charge a fortune to other people. Cause we're gonna get, we're gonna, we're gonna benefit along the way.

Ant Pruitt (00:24:58):
I'm, I'm no developer, but is there some sort of way to have like a, a fingerprint or a blueprint with, when it comes to API connection? Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:25:07):
Yeah. Everybody who used the API has a API keys. Keys. Right. That's unique to them. Yeah. Okay.

Ant Pruitt (00:25:12):
That's what I thought. So why couldn't there be some type of middle ground in place where only this subset of keys is the quote unquote allowed group for this rate. And this group of keys is the allowed group for the other ridiculous gazillion dollar rate. Well,

Leo Laporte (00:25:29):
Who are you gonna choose for the

Ant Pruitt (00:25:31):
Right? Well, I mean, well, your moderators, the ones is not Oh, no.

Leo Laporte (00:25:33):
The moderators will be able to use their tools for free. They're not, the moderators

Ant Pruitt (00:25:37):
Are, I thought they said that they're still gonna get charged,

Leo Laporte (00:25:39):
Not the moderators. I think it's all aimed at the third party apps. Because third

Ant Pruitt (00:25:42):
Party apps, they say some of the moderators were using tools.

Jeff Jarvis (00:25:45):
Llms.

Leo Laporte (00:25:46):
Yeah. In initially the moderators were very upset because their tools uhm, they thought were gonna be charged by the api. Oh,

Ant Pruitt (00:25:54):
Okay.

Leo Laporte (00:25:55):
Updates from Reddit moderators, supports and resources. This is the Reddit post on this. And it's my understanding that they're going to, you know, the, I, the theory is that moderators, I mean moderators are volunteers. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, they should be paying zero. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, they're giving free work. And I think that that's, that's essentially what Reddits saying is, oh no, we don't mean to charge you. It's really all about the third party. Okay. Clients, Christian seller who created Apollo. We will be on Tech News weekly tomorrow. So watch tomorrow. That'll be very interesting. Oh, that'll be good. Go ahead, Stacy.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:26:31):
No, I was gonna, we just keep building community or decentralized or kind of mutual aid models for the internet because it's so easy to do that here because you can build such large communities and tailor them for people cheaply. But we're building it in a capitalistic society. So those are absolutely in conflict. So what happens is when you build your decentralized, your, your cooperative community up to a certain point, you get, you attract investors. And if you take those investors, yeah. You get to get bigger <laugh>. But then you also have that fiduciary responsibility. And I, we, we see this play out again and again. And some people actually game it. Like, I mean, if you look at like Facebook's growth strategy, it was all about building this kind of cooperative community and then monetizing it. But I, I think there's genuine cases where this happens. And I, I don't know how we get around this or if we just keep, you know, building up new cooperative communities and then, I mean, cuz eventually someone is going to take the money because it's too good. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So we just might always be running

Leo Laporte (00:27:49):
Here. That's why people propose federation and decentralized networks, because then there is no central place to monetize mm-hmm. <Affirmative>.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:27:58):
Yes. But those are still too complicated. And that's, that's where like, this is where this kind of breaks down. And, and I know, you know, yes. I'm all, I'm a huge fan of decentralization, but decentralization can only go so far. It can only attract so many.

Leo Laporte (00:28:15):
Yeah. I mean, there is, as we talked about last week, there's Lemi, which is a decentralized, averse version of Reddit, which I, you know, doesn't even have a mobile platform at all. So it's not but it does have an API activity pub. So I guess you could write mobile apps. Somebody may be doing that right now as we speak. I don't know where people are going. I think some people, our iPhone is going to discord. We talked about that last week. It's just gotten worse since last week. And, and frankly the users are le are really incensed that Reddit has been so insensitive to them and are leaving and dwell. Well,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:28:55):
Yeah. I mean, but I, I get it. It sucks. But I'm also like, yo, this, this is this capitalism this. Yes. Yes. We're just gonna replay this until we Yeah. Decide that capitalism isn't how we wanna operate either in this area or other areas. And that's a, that sounds radical, but I think it's becoming less and less radical, especially as people grow up on the web.

Leo Laporte (00:29:17):
Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:29:18):
So,

Leo Laporte (00:29:19):
Well, I mean, it's like people are suddenly realizing, oh, wait a minute. Twitter's made of my posts. Youtube's my stuff. Right. Reddit's my stuff. Right. Oh, you know it isn't exactly a fair trade. I mean, look, Mr. Beast made 54 million last year. Somebody's, somebody's doing all right. Some, some contributors are doing all right. Yeah. I don't know. But this is the second issue, which is the secondary collateral damage that Google is getting worse. And, and you know, who else is gonna get worse? And you're right, Jeff, you brought up ai all that Reddit content is among other things. I mean, all of these large language models are training on our content. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So they're doing the same thing. They're riding on our content.

Jeff Jarvis (00:30:05):
Well, but, but, but also, but Leo all writing rides on previous content. True. All creation. This is what Larry Lasek would say about copyright. Right. Rides on previous. And so this is why I, you know, I I, I've talked about the show years past, I, I, I want a system of ongoing credit to creation and different business models. So there's still business Stacy, I think, but there's still capitalism of a different sort. But it's not based on huge capital.

Leo Laporte (00:30:31):
You're not talking about Link collaborative, cooperative link tax are you structures?

Jeff Jarvis (00:30:34):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The, my idea of credit right, is that each contribution to a string of creativity should be, you should be able to have credit for it and then you can run more. Well, there's like karma points on Reddit. Yes, it is. Yes.

Leo Laporte (00:30:49):
Yeah. And by the way, I pay for Reddit. I don't see, I wouldn't, I don't see ads on the web either. I paid whatever the, I can't even remember what it costs.

Ant Pruitt (00:30:56):
I wonder what that percentage of, of,

Leo Laporte (00:30:58):
Of people, I must be a small

Jeff Jarvis (00:31:00):
Yeah. All about as tiny,

Leo Laporte (00:31:01):
Small percentage. <Laugh>, I don't even know. Let's see. Reddit Premium helps support Reddit and get v i p treatment, exclusive access and monthly coins and exclusive avatar gear. Because there's,

Ant Pruitt (00:31:13):
I mean, cuz that's, that's another part of the argument. People are complaining. But do you contribute to try to keep ready afloat by going premium?

Leo Laporte (00:31:22):
I do. And as a result, I can hide ads. I can highlight new comments and I get special gear <laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (00:31:34):
Yeah. Hide those ads. You paid for that

Leo Laporte (00:31:36):
Privilege. I paid for it. Honestly, I think isn't, I mean, isn't that the answer to this is that we just got used to a free, everything free on the internet. And that wasn't a tenable, a very tenable model. Neither.

Jeff Jarvis (00:31:50):
Neither is everything behind a paywall Tenable look at Lydia Paul Green's column in the New York Times where she tried to run Huff Huffington Post to provide quality news on the free side of the web. And ironically, of course, it's on the New York Times. It's behind a paywall now. And everything, everything behind a paywall. Yeah, we may have been the way it was before, but it's not gonna be good for democracy.

Leo Laporte (00:32:13):
So how do, how do we, this is an interesting conundrum. It's actually one of the things we've been talking about since day one on this show. We're,

Ant Pruitt (00:32:19):
We're a bit spoiled. Many, many of us want stuff for free for whatever reason.

Jeff Jarvis (00:32:26):
Well, and it's also not exactly free.

Ant Pruitt (00:32:29):
No, it's not. Right. It's not free because, you know, as you know, we're usually the actual currency that's being used

Jeff Jarvis (00:32:36):
By always been the case in media by these companies. You, you always still, your media was always subsidized in Right. Always subsidized. Right. Somehow or another. So it was not new to the internet. It's in fact just an extension of the old way.

Leo Laporte (00:32:48):
Right. Right. <Laugh>, here's, here's a Felix salmon piece and wired in 2011. Why the New York Times will lose to the Huffington Post? <Laugh>. <laugh>. Oh, that age, like milk <laugh>. Oh. And nothing dies on the net, does it? Oh dude. Well

Jeff Jarvis (00:33:08):
After you're okay, you're gonna get this from me cuz it is, the book is almost out. So from the Gutenberg parenthesis, Woohoo. It was not until, I mean, printing comes out in 1450. The business model doesn't come until 1710 with copyright. And that, and that idea of content as property was not to protect the creator at all. It was to create a tradable asset so the writer could sell their work to someone who could in turn be secure by trading it on. And that created the metaphor that we have. It's not a forever thing. This idea of copyright, this idea of property. Right. The value lies somewhere else. Just like you just said from the e f the value is not in the platform. The value is not in the content. The value is in the community.

Leo Laporte (00:33:50):
More than 8,000 Reddit communities have gone dark. Wow. How many, do you have any idea? Oh, A lot more. I mean, if you go to Reddit, you might not even know there's something going on. Unless, unless you say, well, wait a minute, about half of my communities that I spend regular time on have gone dark. Yeah. Wow. That's, this is honestly, this has gotta hurt Reddit. It's gotta hurt their I P O Steve, this may pass, but it's not gonna pass fast enough not to be a problem.

Jeff Jarvis (00:34:20):
Well, look what, look what the public market did to Twitter.

Leo Laporte (00:34:23):
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:34:23):
It wasn't pretty. And so now it's basically happening to Reddit before they're even public. That was a happy beginning.

Leo Laporte (00:34:36):
It's too bad. It really is. But let's take a break and then <laugh> and again, re reminder tomorrow, Christian Seig. Am I I'm correct in that. All right. That sounds right. Said that mm-hmm. <Affirmative> tomorrow, Christian Seig, the the guy who, single developer who created Apollo, which is easily the best Reddit client, really wonderful. Much better than Reddit's own clients will be on tech news Wakeley. Somebody said, you know, Reddit should just buy Apollo. And then Dad solved the whole thing. Another person said, what are you talking about? Google should buy Reddit <laugh> run it for free without ads because they're getting such value outta it. Okay. Why would Reddit buy Apollo? What, what would be the play there? Well, yeah, you would not buy them to shut it down. No, no, no. You don't buy it to shut it down. They're stealing your money. You'd buy it to put ads on it. You buy

Jeff Jarvis (00:35:25):
Yeah. Tweet Twitter and tweet deck.

Leo Laporte (00:35:27):
Yes. Twitter

Jeff Jarvis (00:35:28):
Tried to buy tweet deck. That's right. And Twitter said, whoa, Uhuh, we're gonna control all this and we're gonna start shutting down the APIs.

Leo Laporte (00:35:34):
By the way, that's when Steve Huffman got really pissed off. Christian Sellek is when Christian said, well, if, if you want me to pay you 20 million, why don't you buy me for 10 and we'll call it a day <laugh>. Right. Cause you're gonna make more <laugh>. We'll call it a day. And that, and Steve Huffman thought that was insulting. He was pissed. Really? He said, well, we can't do business with this guy. Yeah. Yeah. He got pissed off. So its fine. The whole thing is in that it's fine to use hardball tactics if you're the big guy. They would've won these billion. Yeah, exactly. Let's take a little break. Come back. Lots, lots more horrible stuff to talk about. It's, Hey, we talked about Google. It's the internet. This was a Google story all through and through, boom. 34 minutes and 19 seconds at Google.

(00:36:16):
All right. I just want you to make a note of that. And no more the rest of this day. Dare. No, there's a change log. There's actually a lot, a lot of Google stuff today. There's, there's, there's an IOT angle in Google today. Yes. Stacy Bait. Oh, Stacy Bait. Yeah. That's what we call this show. Stacy Bait. We've, we've, we've hung waffles from all around the table and we're hoping a wild Stacy will appear <laugh>. Oh gosh. Our show today. She thought you were gonna the commercial, so she's already muted. She's already waffling. I know, I know. Yeah. Today, poor Stacy. We really put her in a pigeon hole. She's really in a, our show. Of course. You punched me for her yesterday, I mean last week. Mm-Hmm. I'm still, I'm still a welt. I plead a fifth. That was a great I played thumbnail for the show.

(00:37:04):
Yeah, it was, yeah. Punching Leo, our show today brought to you by Fast Mail. I have been saying for a long time, if email is important to you, pay a little bit for email so you get good service. Cuz if you're not paying for your email service, if you're not the customer, you're the product. Make email work for you. With Fast Mail. That's what I use. I've been using for more than 10 years. It is my email provider. I love Fast Mail. I use it and I'm a power user. I use it to host my websites. I have a whole bunch of domains. The email goes through fast mail. I go on and on and on. Fast mail's amazing. You can, and the fast by the way, set up a New Mac, then install an email client. I thought to myself, why am I doing that?

(00:37:50):
I'll just use the Fast Mail web interface. It's great. It has, it has colors and custom swipes and, and Yes. Night mode, Jeff or not, you know, you can go either way. Fast Mail now has quick settings for the Quick Settings menu. You can easily choose a new theme switch between light and dark, or should I say between Dark and light? Change your text size without leaving the fast mail screen. Quick Settings will also offer options related to the fast mail screen you're viewing. You can create a new masked email address. Oh, let me tell you, that's so cool. If you're using one of the big password managers like our sponsor Bit Warden or One Password, you can actually create an email address that's unique for every website. So not only is the password unique, the email address is, it all goes into your Fast Mail inbox, but it's, it kind of hides who you are and it gives you another layer of security.

(00:38:40):
That's a nice feature. You can also, in the new Fast Mail interface, choose to auto save contacts, which I do choose to show public images of centers from external services like Gravita, which I do. I love seeing those little, those little avatars next to your email. So I know who it's from. Honestly, the, the web client has gotten so good. I, it's, it's as good as any desktop client. Better set default reminders for events. I I love FastMail so much. I use it not just for email. It's my calendar and contact service. I don't use iCloud, I use OneDrive. I don't use Outlook, I don't use Microsoft Exchange. I use Fast Mail because it's private, it's secure. There's somebody on the other end of the line. That's great support. And it, and it works just like all of these to synchronize with all my systems.

(00:39:26):
So my calendars live on Fast mail, my contacts are on fast mail and I have some great fast mail settings. For instance, if you're in my contact list, I set up fast mail so that your mail goes to a special mailbox cuz I know you, you're sending it to somebody. I know. I love this. You can add or buy a domain through Fast Mail. They'll set up all the records for you. So it works immediately. I, I have a lot of legacy domains. It's pretty easy. I, it was very easy to move 'em over to Fast Mail. And so that means I get D Kim and s pf and all the authentication protocols at my email addresses. I don't use it for hosting, but I use it for my D Ns. It's fantastic. It's fantastic. Fast Mail lets you send and receive emails from your own custom mode domain.

(00:40:12):
Unlimited domains, unlimited email addresses, all in one space for over 20 years. Fast Mail has been a leader in email privacy. The, that's why if you care about email, go to Fast Mail for as little as $3 a month. Better spam filters, of course, no ads and, and real support from real people. Better productivity. I can go on and on. I usually, I do. Cause I'm love. I'm really, I'm really like, I want you to get Fast Mail is very easy to move to Fast Mail, export your old data, import it into your new Fast Mail inbox. But you can also continue to receive email from those other accounts if you want. As long as you want. Just have fast mail. Collect it. Fast mail. By the way, these, it's open source. It uses the Cyrus server. They contribute back with new internet standards and open source innovations that many other email services use.

(00:41:08):
Fast mail's kind of a leader in this field, reclaim your privacy, boost productivity with the best email service in the world. Ask Around Geeks will tell you fast mail. Try it now free for 30 days at fastmail.com/twitter. Of course, you can have your business email at FastMail. You know, that's where Leo fm is. That's where leoville.com is. That's where La porte.email is. All my email addresses. They're at FastMail fastmail.com/twit, including my Spotify podcast. Leo, on the line with the email address. Lottel fun ltl.fun. That email has a FastMail fastmail.com/twit. I haven't put anything on that podcast in years. I thought for a while. It's just in case I get fired here. <Laugh>. I want to have a podcast, you know, ready to go at all times. Just in case. You never know I could fire myself. I I could Don't do that. Please. I could. I'm fired. I'd appreciate it. Jewish <laugh>. No. I I, yeah, I could. I could. Let's see. Should AI have section two 30 protection? <Laugh> Oh, Josh Holly and Richard Blumenthal. There is unlikely bedfellows. What

Jeff Jarvis (00:42:28):
A, what a combination. Mr. Blumenthal, you know, if you're agreeing with Mr. Holly, you might wanna look in a mirror.

Leo Laporte (00:42:33):
<Laugh>. They they have introduced a new bill today that they shared exclusively with Axios. Okay, well I'm reading it on Axios page. Saying that the, see no, they're pretty clear about the purpose of the bill. The name of it is the no Section two 30 Immunity for AI Act. <Laugh>,

Jeff Jarvis (00:43:01):
We're gonna say understand it. What word does that make?

Leo Laporte (00:43:06):
Can I messed up? Iaa? Ms. Tofu would amends Section two 30 by adding a clause that strips immunity from AI companies and civil claims or criminal prosecutions. I don't even know.

Jeff Jarvis (00:43:20):
It means nothing. Plus the stupidity of people suing AI for libel. When I, I can go into AI right now and say something, say something terrible won Leo La Port and, and then you're gonna sue.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:43:30):
Well, they're suing it for making up lo lawsuits. Why? So they're, this is an interesting question because yes, the initial fault is with people who are like, oh, I'm going to ask a question and believe the answer without checking it. However, and this kind of is like, this is actually very similar, I think in kind of some of the, the liability cases or like how do we hold self-driving vehicles liable. When Tesla's saying it's well autonomous driving and people are like, okay, I won't, I won't pay attention. And then they crash into things. We're kind of seeing this happen with the results from, well

Jeff Jarvis (00:44:07):
Then the user who creates the content and spreads it should be the one liable. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:44:11):
Section, not the machine 30. Pretend two 30 is irrelevant. Protects a publisher from content posted by a third party on his site. Where, where does this fit with AI <laugh> posting? Where is that? I don't even, it's not Makes

Jeff Jarvis (00:44:25):
No sense.

Leo Laporte (00:44:26):
It makes no sense. It's not like section two three. You would protect AI companies Anyway. I hadn't been tech right Tech Dirt today. Did Mr. Masnick comment on this? Oh, I'm sure I haven't looked, but you're right. I, but,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:44:36):
But these things are put on, I guess. I mean, lawmakers look for any way to like shoehorn existing the, because new legislation is so hard. So being able to have an established framework, do I think this is the right framework? Absolutely not. But I can see why this is happening. And they might, I could also see them thinking, well, I mean it's content on the internet. That's what's actually two 30 designed protect

Leo Laporte (00:45:04):
Oh geez. Yeah. It again. So this shows they that neither Dick Underst Blumenthal nor Josh Hawley. Yeah. Understand what two 30 is. You know what, Josh Hawley's a smart guy. I know he's pretending he's a, a dumb guy for tv. But he's, he's, he's well-educated. He knows better. And I have to think Dick Blumenthal knows better. Yes.

Jeff Jarvis (00:45:27):
Political points. It's just AI is now the new evil. So we're gonna go after 'em. Yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:45:31):
I just, yeah, I was on a call

Leo Laporte (00:45:32):
Trans so annoying <laugh> I got

Stacey Higginbotham (00:45:35):
With the FCC today. And they like, they were like, well, because we're on a, a call about, you know, regulation right now and we're in the government and the hottest topic is ai. What do you think about, and this was regarding like connected device privacy. And they just like shoehorned this sucker in there. And you could tell people had no idea like how AI use was used in this context. What the, like I was like, oh, right.

Leo Laporte (00:45:59):
People are running around like chicks with their head cut off when it comes to ai. I've never seen So Leo such a crazy frenzy of

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:09):
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Every, every company executive is screaming about it. I'm probably getting in trouble. Cause I'm saying journalists should stay away from it.

Leo Laporte (00:46:15):
Everybody should stay away from it. AI just was that

Stacey Higginbotham (00:46:18):
I am making a dramatic

Leo Laporte (00:46:20):
Statement. Hey. I said, you know, Jeff, that's dark mode isn't as bad as you

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:23):
Think. Jeff just went into dark mode.

Leo Laporte (00:46:26):
His lights went out

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:27):
Crazy. See, see this is what it feels like when you all go, that's be dark mode for me. You look great <laugh>. So, so I covered, I actually went to the hearing for the schmuck lawyer who used Chachi. Oh

Leo Laporte (00:46:40):
Really? Oh yeah. <Laugh>. Is he in trouble? Like is the hearing like he's

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:45):
Oh yeah, yeah. It was a show cause hearing, but why he should be censured. Oh wow. There were three, three lawyers involved. There's a post in, in in the rundown about

Leo Laporte (00:46:54):
It. But Your Honor, it was a computer.

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:57):
Well, that's the thing. He got the, the guy keeps saying, Schwartz keeps saying, but I, I never believed it could lie. It was a computer. I was told I thought it, it was a super search engine. That's, that's the most mistake of Microsoft. Your post. Oh my God. See, this is why

Stacey Higginbotham (00:47:09):
It was search engine. See, I think, yeah, the Tesla example's a good example. And you know, that is kind of how people are using it. And there's only so much you can do to educate the public

Leo Laporte (00:47:19):
Last.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:47:19):
Cause the public doesn't need to know about this.

Leo Laporte (00:47:21):
Last Sunday, deep AI on twit, we had, well except a wheel bearings takeover. Mm-Hmm. We had the host of a wheel bearing Sam Bulls, salmon, Nicole Wakeland Roberta Baldwin, these Robert are all people. Robert report on cars. They were all in agreement that eventually the law will reflect the actual state, which is, and it's already this way in Europe. The manufacturer of the self-driving is, is liable if a car is under self-driving and plows into a wall. Right now in the us if you're conducting a vehicle, you're responsible, whatever that vehicle does, you're responsible for. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But ultimately they, I think, I hope I'm not misquoting them, I understood them to say, no, no, it's software. The software is, this is a problem. Generally the software liability is, you know, you open that shrink wrap license, it almost always says, Hey, we, we, we didn't say this would do anything good or Right. Right. And we are not responsible for it at all. And in, in Europe at least they're pushing back and saying, no, no, no. If you write software, they gets you. Well, Stacy,

Jeff Jarvis (00:48:22):
Stacy, can I

Stacey Higginbotham (00:48:22):
Answer you? No, actually in the US the Biden administration on the cybersecurity

Leo Laporte (00:48:27):
Front, that's right. That's

Jeff Jarvis (00:48:28):
Right. So

Stacey Higginbotham (00:48:28):
Sorry, I just wanted to throw that out there. And I can't remember.

Leo Laporte (00:48:31):
We mentioned that when the story under Yeah, that yeah. That this was the, this was their cybersecurity policy statement. It wasn't, didn't have the force of law, but it shows at least the right direction. It was it wasn't even an executive order, but the administration said, look, if there's a security problem and it's due to software, you're li the software company's liable for that. You know, that's, they, they screwed up. They're liable.

Jeff Jarvis (00:48:52):
Stacy, can I answer you on, on the case of the lawyer though, and where I think it does diverge? Oh, sorry. Yes. because what the, so the attorney saying, I'm sorry I did this. I didn't know I shouldn't have used it, blah, blah, blah, blah. My judge said the very end,

Leo Laporte (00:49:08):
I love your lead. One

Jeff Jarvis (00:49:10):
Of the attorneys,

Leo Laporte (00:49:10):
The attorney's attorney said, this

Jeff Jarvis (00:49:13):
Case is Schaden

Leo Laporte (00:49:14):
Freud for any lawyer <laugh>, that's not what it means.

Jeff Jarvis (00:49:17):
So it's not exactly what my, my next line is misusing a word as chat gpt tonight.

Leo Laporte (00:49:21):
Yeah, yeah. It sounds good. It's German

Jeff Jarvis (00:49:24):
<Laugh>. Yeah. So as, as we go along the whole case, the, the, the, the judge said again, it was the, the lawyer Hughes chat, G p t the lawyer who filed the papers and the law firm. And after they filed the first thing, the opposing counsel said, we can't find these cases. The judge said, show me these cases. And then they went off and they had chat. G p t make up the cases, the cases were gibberish in the words of the judge. And they put it all in. So the judge said at the end, he said, it's not fair to pick apart people's words, but he said that, I've heard the word repeatedly, repeatedly described as a mistake. He said, the mistake may have been the first submission, but that's the beginning of the narrative, not the end is again, and again and again, the human beings, the attorneys failed to do their work.

(00:50:06):
They didn't Google the cases. They could have used Google to say, does this case exist? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, they didn't do that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, they didn't read the cases to see that it was gibberish. They had a responsibility to their client. And the, and, and Schwartz, the main lawyer, apologized to everybody and left out his client, the judge Oh boy. Excoriated him for that too. And so in the end it was, it was a failure of humanity, not a machine. And that's what interesting about this case to me is that yeah, you can have a tool. The tool can lie and you know, it can lie. And then if you go ahead and spread that lie, whose fault is that? It's, it ain't the machines. It chat. G p t is the wronged party in this suit. It is

Leo Laporte (00:50:41):
Still a failure

Ant Pruitt (00:50:42):
Of the machine, sir. It just made up cases.

Jeff Jarvis (00:50:45):
Ah, just, just, you see, that's the difference. It's a failure of Microsoft and open AI to Stacy's point to present it as if it doesn't do that. It does not deal with fact. And we all know that, ah, it is a word probability machine. Right. And so it does, we know that it doesn't deal with fact pattern's irresponsible Microsoft to put it in a search engine. Yeah. Irresponsible the lawyer to have used it, irresponsible, open a aii. And in fact, there's a story in the rundown somewhere today that Open AI tried to warn Microsoft early on, said it can't do fast.

Leo Laporte (00:51:14):
Oh yeah, yeah. Micro, they they were kind of mad at Microsoft for rushing ahead with being chat.

Jeff Jarvis (00:51:22):
Exactly. Exactly.

Leo Laporte (00:51:24):
<Laugh>. Wow. Exactly. Wow. Hey, when you, we talked to the Ftcc fcc, did you ask him about Comcast? Comcast.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:51:32):
Oh, this story.

Leo Laporte (00:51:33):
Comcast is complaining. See, know the FCC has this new broadband facts nutrition label. They want all broadband companies to provide with clearly labeled pricing, monthly fees, one-time fees, termin early termination fees speeds, provided, you know this, the kind of stuff you would want to know as a customer. Yep. Com Comcast is not happy. It filed last week with the FCC saying, well, we're working diligently to put in place systems and processes necessary. But, but, but this, this is hard. <Laugh> two aspects of the order compose significant administrative burdens and a unnecessary complexity and complying with the broadband label requirements. They don't like the rules. Now we know why they don't like the rules. They know how much they charge. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it can't be that hard. They send you a bill, they know what it costs. But apparently

Stacey Higginbotham (00:52:35):
It's the same argument the carriers made about broadband mapping when it was first proposed in like, I don't know, 20 2008, 2010. They were like, oh, this data's too onerous and we don't have it and blah, blah blah. And then they were like, oh, it'll be competitive information. Yeah. This is the same. Yes,

Leo Laporte (00:52:51):
It's bs same that

Stacey Higginbotham (00:52:53):
They always do.

Leo Laporte (00:52:53):
The FTC was required to implement this rule by Congress in 2021, F C C approved label rules last November, but didn't set a date for them to take effect. They're subject to a federal om b review. Because of the requirements of the US Paperwork reduction Act, medium enlarged ISPs would required to comply six months after the OMB review completes pro small providers that have a year to comply. I wonder if we'll ever see these broadband nutritionist. We

Stacey Higginbotham (00:53:25):
Will, it'll just be so, and, and by then I don't know how they'll change it. So they'll probably change their fee structure. Either they're, they, I don't, I'm not even devious enough. They'll, they'll, they'll basically change their fee structure local, not have to local orders,

Leo Laporte (00:53:44):
Something like that. Yeah. The problem is that there's advertises a low price. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Right. But that's not what you're gonna pay on your bill because when you look at, they'll be the low price plus. Yep. All of these little fees. Yep. Cell phones made up fees too. You know, resort fees.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:54:01):
And they do it and they do it also. They, they charge different rates depending on what market they're in, because some markets are more competitive than others. Yeah. So if Comcast is going up against municipal fiber in Chattanooga, it charges lower rates. Right. If it's, so there's a lot happening here. And Yeah, you're right. They have billing software. They can totally send

Leo Laporte (00:54:25):
Books. They know exactly what it's gonna cost. They

Stacey Higginbotham (00:54:28):
Can send it programmatically quick today. Yes. To the fcc. This is, this is one area where I feel like our government needs to like, just change the way it does. Like I think these labels and transparency are important and it's clear that the government is like looking at them more closely. Like if you look at the FTCs re like resort fee issues and that sort of thing, businesses have programmatic pricing already because they have billing software, most of them do. So if you can give access to that via a p i to a government entity, it's a pretty relatively simple, and B, when you change the prices and things change, it could automatically be reflected in why the government doesn't demand something like this. As part of these rules is beyond me. Because what happens is these sorts of databases get outdated and Oh, it, we,

Leo Laporte (00:55:26):
Oh, they already wanted the bill down. The label was supposed to appear on your bill, but Comcast got them to change that. <Laugh> <laugh> oh God. Are they evil? The only good thing is they are losing customers like water. I mean, it's just pouring out of them and Good. Well, that's

Stacey Higginbotham (00:55:47):
Not true. They're losing cable customers, but they're not losing, losing broadband customers.

Leo Laporte (00:55:52):
That's right. Yeah. Cuz you gotta have internet.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:55:55):
Yeah. Leo

Leo Laporte (00:55:56):
Old Comcast cares. Yeah. <laugh> Frank left. Right. Frank's not there anymore. And where is Frank now? He went somewhere. He got, he took, so Frank, I can't remember his last name. Was the guy on Twitter who was Oh, Eliason. Eliason was the Comcast Cares account. And so he was answering and made, turned Comcast into a nice, warm fuzzy Well, yeah. Outstanding. And then he left for a better job. Smart man. Yeah. You go to the Greener Pasture is

Jeff Jarvis (00:56:23):
A consultant.

Leo Laporte (00:56:24):
Yeah. Okay. Let me show you how I used social media to fool people into thinking Comcast cared. Music companies are.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:56:34):
Well, he, he was probably some, I mean, he genuinely did care. Think he, he genuinely was trying to

Leo Laporte (00:56:38):
Yeah. But he was as it was kind of an uphill battle. <Laugh>. Good honor. Yeah. Yeah. Music companies are now suing Twitter for copyright violations. I think they're protected by two 30 again. But we'll see. The National Music Publishers Association alleges Twitter violates the copyright of songwriters by using their music on its platform without permission. The other social media platforms, TikTok, Facebook, snap, YouTube, all have agreements that pay the music industry a lot of money. This companies are seeking $150,000 for every piece of work. Infringed. Yeah. Good luck getting that outta Elon <laugh>,

Ant Pruitt (00:57:22):
<Laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:57:25):
Wrong. I, you know, I feel like in this case, I'm kind of on Elon's side. He's not responsible. If somebody posts a song Yeah. On Twitter, section two 30 protects him as long, you know, and they need to, they need to be able to take it down. And they do. I'm sure. Even if they don't, they're still protected. Right. But

Ant Pruitt (00:57:41):
The labels are like, you should have something in place that's gonna scan.

Leo Laporte (00:57:44):
They, they want content. Id like like, like YouTube has YouTube,

Ant Pruitt (00:57:50):
But then you end up with false positives.

Leo Laporte (00:57:52):
Youtube said it paid 6 billion to the music industry last year. 6 billion.

Jeff Jarvis (00:57:59):
It's pretty amazing, man.

Leo Laporte (00:58:02):
And they still take it now. There's enough

Stacey Higginbotham (00:58:04):
To go around

Leo Laporte (00:58:04):
Y'all. Yeah. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:58:07):
I'm like, come on, YouTube makes a lot of money.

Ant Pruitt (00:58:10):
Yeah. This is true.

Leo Laporte (00:58:13):
Facebook says it's paid hundreds of millions of dollars. But that's in both YouTube and Facebook's case, that those are certain songs which, you know, when you're a creator, you probably know about this. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> cuz you create YouTube stuff, you go there and you pick a song from that pool of songs. Right? Yep. You can't just play Achy Breaky Heart cuz you like it. Nope. You have to pick one of the songs. They

Ant Pruitt (00:58:33):
Have something already available for you that's, that's cleared, if you will.

Leo Laporte (00:58:37):
Before Elon took over, Twitter had been talking to music companies naturally, <laugh>, as soon as Elon took over, those conversations ended.

Jeff Jarvis (00:58:46):
I had breakfast this morning with Adam Covich, who's from the Chamber of Progress, which is a, a trade association on the, on the left side of things. And, and we had, it was an interesting conversation about the whole process of creating, of, of YouTube creating the, the identity structure for a song. Whereas it could have just been as simple as Take it down, take it down, take it down. But by giving the monetization opportunity, oh, you can leave it up, but make some money and you're gonna share the money. It, it created a whole new business model for music and a whole new opportunity for creators. And it's a better way to think rather than just go to a pure copyright structure and say, okay, there's copyright. It enables this. Now what can we do about that that's gonna help everybody? And, and then we need more of that kind of thinking.

Leo Laporte (00:59:38):
Well, <laugh>, it's also was great for, for YouTube cuz it didn't cost him anything. Right. If we take it down, we're not gonna make any money. Yep. This way we don't care who gets the

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:48):
It's aligned interest.

Leo Laporte (00:59:49):
The pennies on the dollar that we pay off, we still get the 99 cents. We're gonna take a break and then we come back. Big meat still alive.

Ant Pruitt (01:00:00):
Wait,

Leo Laporte (01:00:01):
<Laugh>, what, what?

Jeff Jarvis (01:00:04):
This man knows how to do A

Leo Laporte (01:00:06):
Tease <laugh>. Oh, now

Ant Pruitt (01:00:11):
I gotta look through this rundown. Now

Leo Laporte (01:00:13):
The big meat story. See if you can find the big meat story.

Ant Pruitt (01:00:16):
I actually need to get some water.

Leo Laporte (01:00:18):
So guess who our show is brought to you by today? Green, green Ag One from Athletic Greens. Don't you go anywhere. You are an Athletic Greens user. I like in fact, when they came to us and said, could we buy ads? You said, heck

Ant Pruitt (01:00:28):
Yeah. I've been on them for a long time, man. They good stuff.

Leo Laporte (01:00:32):
2010. It was founded in and as soon as I started talking about AG one, everybody I keep, not just you, everybody. Oh yeah. I love that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know why it tastes good. Yep. There's a lot of other you know, energy or vitamin drinks or supplement drinks. You can drink that are, you like, have to choke 'em down. It's like medicine, right? It's

Ant Pruitt (01:00:53):
Like Greek yogurt. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:00:54):
Yeah. It's like Greek yogurt. I like Greek yogurt. But I understand what you're saying. I hate Greek yogurt. You don't wanna eat it <laugh>. You don't want to eat it. AG one from Athletic Reeds gives you everything your body craves in one daily nutritional drink that tastes great. Mix it in with 12 ounces of cold water. Doesn't even have to be warm water. I mean, that's cold water shakes up, dissolves beautifully, tastes great. It's my how I start my day. It's wonderful. Before I even eat anything, cuz you know that 12 ounces of water also fills you up, which it's kind of a little secret. Yep. And it saves you money. All those supplements. I always taken a fistful of supplements all now in one simple drink from G one costs less than $3 a day. It saved me three or four times that much. And boy, with the powerful long-term results, you get one scoop of a G one, you get all your supplements, you get all your vitamins, you promote long-term gut health, 75 high quality minerals, vitamins, pre, and probiotics.

Ant Pruitt (01:01:49):
That's the key. The gut health

Leo Laporte (01:01:50):
Man. If you're looking for a simpler cost effective supplement routine Ag one by Athletic Greens. In fact, right now, if you get a subscription with your first purchase, you'll get a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs. I love those travel packs when we're traveling, instead of all the pill boxes and stuff, I just bring the little travel pack one a day and I'm good. Athletic greens.com/twig. Bet you they didn't say that on any of the other podcasts. <Laugh>

Ant Pruitt (01:02:17):
No

Leo Laporte (01:02:18):
Athletic greens.com/on

Ant Pruitt (01:02:21):
This podcast Twig someone actually uses.

Leo Laporte (01:02:24):
We both do. It's delicious. In fact, I'm craving it a little bit right now. I might have to go in the other room and make some <laugh>. I don't need it, but I like it. It's good. Athletic greens.com/twig. Thank you. Big Meat loses, I mean wins. It didn't lose it's winning <laugh>. I'm so confused. Well, it's a great article on Bloomberg about the fake meat, you know, impossible Burger and Beyond Meat. Like how that was gonna change the world. And I You mean it's like, it's the it's the edible N F t. Yeah, it was, it's the cover of business week. This week. Turns out big meat is still in biz because people look at these, you know, phony meats and they go look at the, I don't even understand what those ingredients are. It's really highly processed and we are, we are being told now, highly processed is not good. Dude,

Ant Pruitt (01:03:21):
I was telling y'all that when this stuff was coming out.

Leo Laporte (01:03:23):
This you knew. Yes. I still haven't had any of it. I haven't tasted it. I don't know. It was a good, I

Ant Pruitt (01:03:28):
Tried the one Impossible Burger or whatever it was at Burger King or what have you. Yeah. And I get why people would like it, but

Leo Laporte (01:03:37):
No, it's, you know, it's, it's a test tube though.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:03:40):
Well, it's a, so, okay. Okay. Let us not freak out about test tube meat for a second here. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:03:47):
Freak it

Stacey Higginbotham (01:03:47):
Out. Highly processed <laugh>. Highly processed proteins. And it is lab generated and there's different ways of generating it. Some of them are generated in like yeast type products. Some of them are generated in other ways. So

Leo Laporte (01:04:01):
One of the things they realize is that the blood that drips out of your burger is like important. So they, that's called he, he hemes

Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:09):
Heme

Leo Laporte (01:04:09):
Hemes. And so,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:10):
Yeah. Not

Leo Laporte (01:04:11):
Hems. They made heme with genetically modified yeasts. They patented. This is this is the impossible burger. Soy leg hemoglobin. Leg hemoglobin. Okay.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:21):
You were like doing like weird scare tactics that like influencers as the

Leo Laporte (01:04:26):
Most being a man of science. Well, I have to tell you serious man, it's worse because people have gone back to beef. You know what the ingredient is in a hamburger? Beef. Okay. No beef. That's what I said

Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:37):
It. If we talk about

Leo Laporte (01:04:39):
Where's the beef, where's the beef? Is it environmentally better? Stacy, is it healthier for you?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:45):
So, so here's the deal. You shouldn't be eating burgers every day. You shouldn't eat an impossible burger every day. Nope. I've tried many of the faux meats and I tend to only use them like if I'm totally like, oh, I need the feel of a sausage in a vegetarian dish. But the idea here is to help people who only eat meat or meat is an essential part of their diet. Bring in plant and not use as much meat. And I think they have been successful in that way. So people have swished for meeting meat seven days a week to maybe only doing it five days a week. Yeah. Did anyone really think big meat was gonna go away? Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:05:27):
No. Well, no. The investors who put hundreds of millions of dollars into these companies, idiot might have.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:05:34):
I still, people still buying these faux meats. Yeah. Okay. I don't know what they call them.

Leo Laporte (01:05:39):
I like, I mean, you know, I'll get a quinoa burger or a, you know, brown rice burger, black bean burger, black be burger <laugh>. Those are, those are, I know what's in them. I feel like they're good for me. They got fiber. I'm not killing an animal to eat it. That's, I understand. Mushroom burgers, you probably eat sprouts too. I love sprouts.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:05:55):
Like, not every, like, not everybody's that way. Some people were like, I want, and I think there's value there. And I think over time this will only expand. Especially, I mean, look at the price of beef and what's happening is people in other countries, like other countries are like, oh, you've got to cull your beef herds because of carbon emissions. Right. We're gonna start seeing real meat become prohibitively expensive in some places. And

Leo Laporte (01:06:24):
I say that time is now even

Stacey Higginbotham (01:06:25):
Here, thanks to things like climate change. Right. And this'll be a substitute for people who really want that mouth feel of a, have

Leo Laporte (01:06:33):
You ever Dr priced a dry aged ribeye at old foods? Man, this stuff, it's more than gold. It's expensive, dude. It's $500 an ounce. It should be Should,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:06:44):
I mean, should part of what's happening is, is

Leo Laporte (01:06:46):
We're yeah. Should, we're

Stacey Higginbotham (01:06:47):
Should pricing in the externalities of these industries that have historically even been subsidized

Leo Laporte (01:06:54):
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, I am ready to eat. You know, once they can culture cells in a vat and make muscle matter that way, maybe that'll be okay. But these are really chemical stews. They are, that are designed to make people who want meat think they're eating meat with a touch of paprika, <laugh>, <laugh>. Anyway, the, well, if that freaks you, the business week story. Okay. The business week story is really that it hasn't done that well. Although some have said that's because ac the big meat, actual meat is doing everything they can to suggest that you know, these fake meats are somehow unhealthy or full of chemicals.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:07:39):
Yes. I mean yeast is, is a around us all over. It's a fungus. It's, and some of these others are used made with like mushrooms and it's delicious. Yeah. So yeast is not like a, it's not like a weird scientifically chemical stew unless we think, I mean we are chemical stews if you look at it that way.

Leo Laporte (01:08:02):
That's true. Yeah. It's a good point. Well, I just put in the chat, walking meat sex that synthetic human embryos have been made for eating. No. <laugh>. I don't think that's it. I'm a guin it. I'm just gonna say I'm a gu it. Yeah,

Jeff Jarvis (01:08:17):
Just, yeah, just he would've made

Leo Laporte (01:08:19):
Up. Maybe the Democrats want that, but not me.

Jeff Jarvis (01:08:22):
<Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:08:24):
I'm just kidding. I'm just teasing. Where'd you put that?

Jeff Jarvis (01:08:27):
That's says in the chat.

Leo Laporte (01:08:28):
Which chat? There's many chats. The IRC

Jeff Jarvis (01:08:30):
Chat. The

Leo Laporte (01:08:30):
Irc. You put that in there. Huh? That goes fast. Yeah, I don't see it.

Jeff Jarvis (01:08:37):
You don't? No.

Leo Laporte (01:08:38):
No.

Ant Pruitt (01:08:40):
Because our IRC is

Leo Laporte (01:08:41):
Always right there busy.

Jeff Jarvis (01:08:43):
I'm right there. I'll put it the discord.

Leo Laporte (01:08:45):
No, no. You put it somewhere weird in IRC anyway. Yeah, you did.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:08:49):
I don't see it in irc.

Leo Laporte (01:08:50):
Jeff. Yeah. Jeff. I don't know.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:08:53):
Jeff, do you not know how to work the irc?

Jeff Jarvis (01:08:55):
1823. Jeff Jarvis from fake meat to fake embryos. Colon.

Leo Laporte (01:09:00):
I see three. I see it in the Discord. Discord.

Jeff Jarvis (01:09:04):
Okay. Well let's do, I

Leo Laporte (01:09:05):
Don't see it in the chat.

Ant Pruitt (01:09:06):
I don't see it in irc. It's probably cuz he won't Yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:09:09):
I don don't see it in irc.

Leo Laporte (01:09:10):
Well, it's a dumb story anyway, so forget. Oh,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:09:11):
Scooter X is like, which IRC channel maybe

Leo Laporte (01:09:14):
Just has created in groundbreaking advance. Oh, this is just begging to get, you know, picketed. Yeah. Breaks through, could aid research into genetic disorders, but raises serious ethical and legal issues. You

Jeff Jarvis (01:09:26):
Think? Is it,

Leo Laporte (01:09:27):
Is it like stem cells?

Leo Laporte (01:09:30):
Cause that was pretty,

Jeff Jarvis (01:09:31):
That human embryo was using stem cells. So it's, it's from there, but yeah. So Yeah. Yeah. Hooked us up to AI and, oh, humanity's doomed

Stacey Higginbotham (01:09:40):
The impossible Baby

Jeff Jarvis (01:09:42):
<Laugh>. Oh.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:09:44):
Like it beyond

Leo Laporte (01:09:46):
Baby. Odd Baby, baby.

Ant Pruitt (01:09:47):
We need a bell for that one. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:09:51):
Anyway, I don't know. It's a, it's a front cover. Big Bloomberg Business Week, along with a lot of stuff of meat in a pile coming out of a meat grinder Beyond Impossible. How fake meat became just another food fad.

Jeff Jarvis (01:10:04):
Speaking of fake meat, the Taco Bell and Rito was back and I had one this week.

Leo Laporte (01:10:09):
Is it made with meat? Bless your heart.

Jeff Jarvis (01:10:11):
It is, it's a little disappointing. I used to have it years ago, but wasn't what I remembered. Yes.

Leo Laporte (01:10:17):
That

Ant Pruitt (01:10:17):
Man in his Taco

Stacey Higginbotham (01:10:19):
Bell. Did you read the New Yorker article on research? It was like the, the people in the Taco Bell's Innovation lab.

Jeff Jarvis (01:10:25):
I, it's not gonna print out here somewhere. Cause I wanna read that. Yes. But it's, it's gotta print

Stacey Higginbotham (01:10:29):
Out. You could Google it and just read it right here. Because

Jeff Jarvis (01:10:32):
Bell used my, I've used my free article. Stacy

Leo Laporte (01:10:36):
Write. You don't subscribe to the New Yorker. Don't

Stacey Higginbotham (01:10:38):
Subscribe to the New Yorker.

Leo Laporte (01:10:39):
What is wrong with you? You my friend.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:10:41):
You look like a New Yorker. I

Leo Laporte (01:10:43):
Know.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:10:44):
I mean,

Jeff Jarvis (01:10:44):
You're

Leo Laporte (01:10:45):
Geez Louise. You're really,

Jeff Jarvis (01:10:46):
I thought you were gonna say it looked like a New Yorker cover. I look like a New Yorker cartoon. You actually thank you very much. Yes. Does

Leo Laporte (01:10:52):
He? Looks like an a cartoon. He belongs in a cor

Jeff Jarvis (01:10:56):
Geez.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:10:58):
Oh dear. Sorry. All

Leo Laporte (01:10:59):
Right. I'm looking for the story. Is it this week's New Yorker? This is why No.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:11:04):
Oh no, no. It was a while

Leo Laporte (01:11:05):
Ago. You can't keep up with a New Yorker. That's the problem.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:11:07):
It's, it was, it was just really, it was fun because it talked, it had this researcher who was like talking about like how to like, spent 20 years developing, like trying to push this idea of a, a handheld taco that didn't spill out so you could

Leo Laporte (01:11:22):
Taco while driving tacos. Innovation kitchen, the front line in the stunt food wars. <Laugh>. how did the chain outdo Burger King's bacon sundae, pizza huts, hotdog stuffed crust. No SNA buns. Pizza bun. I like that. I like, there's a sort of Bacon Sunday was good. There's some sort of protein drink on the market for old folks. You know, I watched those ads and it's, it says now in Cinnabon inspired flavors. Yes. Yes. Is that cinnamon? That's just cinnamon, right? Just cinnamon. <Laugh>. It smells like the airport. It's

Stacey Higginbotham (01:12:00):
A, it could be vanilla and butter.

Leo Laporte (01:12:02):
Extra sugar. What's a sna? It's not even, it's a Cinnabon inspired flavor.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:12:09):
<Laugh>. Well that's cuz they didn't get the licensing from Sine butter. That's right.

Leo Laporte (01:12:12):
It's disgustingly sweet. Right? It's gotta be better than KFC's fried chicken flavored nail polish. What that's in this article because you bite your nails. No, no. Lowest Carson. I think it's just always wanted to find a new way to fold a tortilla life. Stack an experiment to me. She said for 23 years when she, you know what I just read? So there's a new movie called Flaming Hot. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> apparently all made up. He didn't invent some flaming hot

Stacey Higginbotham (01:12:44):
Oh yeah. The Flaming Hot Tour or Cheetos story has been made up forever. Yeah. He

Leo Laporte (01:12:48):
Made it up. And now there's a movie. Ma Evil Longoria directed Oh man. About his life. I need to make up something. And the people back at the Cheetos factory said he didn't invent that. We've been working on that for years.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:13:01):
But they recognized a good marketing opportunity when they saw it. They were like, this guy. Yeah. I

Leo Laporte (01:13:07):
Need to make something up.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:13:10):
Go for it, aunt. I thought

Leo Laporte (01:13:11):
We'd do it every day on this show. This show is the flaming hot Cheetos of podcasting. I think. Actually it's not the hot ones is we should really give the hot ones all the credit on that one. Good show. Let's see. Quantum Computing advance. This is for Stacy cuz she understands she's the only one in smart person stuff. Stacy,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:13:34):
I don't understand quantum physics. I'm just gonna tell you that right now. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:13:38):
I'm disappointed. You disappointed her so much. Oh

Stacey Higginbotham (01:13:40):
Man. Oh, I mean, I can, I can talk to you about the story and I understood, but I, I just,

Leo Laporte (01:13:45):
Quantum computing Advance begins New era. IBM says so they now have a a quantum chip with with 12 what do you call those? Nano bits or cubits? Cubits. Cubits. They got what? What's a cubit? <Laugh>? They a, I don't think we can, I don't think we can quote that anymore. Can't. It's not. I can't do it anymore. It's sad.

Jeff Jarvis (01:14:10):
It's like a Woody Allen

Leo Laporte (01:14:11):
Joke there on Wednesday. That's today. IBM research. This how fresh this news is. Fresh is a fla hot Cheeto on a taco Bell bun. IBM researchers announced they devised a method to manage the unreliability in a way that would lead to reliable use useful answers. Kind of like chat G Pt Chat

Jeff Jarvis (01:14:30):
G pt. Well, this is what, this is actually fascinating that it's approximation. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> is where computing

Leo Laporte (01:14:36):
Is. So you may remember we had the story a few years ago that Google researchers said they had achieved something called quantum supremacy, which was they were able to do a task more quickly on a quantum computer than a conventional computer could do. The Google researcher said they did in two and a half minutes, something, it would say take a regular computer 10,000 years to do. That's been somewhat debunked. They found a computer that could do it in five minutes. So I don't know where it was in an Osborne. I don't know what they were talking about. <Laugh>. now, so they don't want to use the that, that phrase quantum supremacy. They're talking about quantum utility. We are entering this phase of quantum computing. I called utility, said Jake Gata, vice President of IBM Quantum. The era of utility. Like it's actually useful. Okay. It does something you want. Okay. If it does something,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:15:31):
Wanna You used to solve a physics problem tied to magnetism course?

Leo Laporte (01:15:36):
We're not gonna go. It's kinda an interesting, we're not Yeah. It's kind of an Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:15:39):
We are gonna go into it.

Leo Laporte (01:15:40):
No. Yeah, absolutely. I I'm going read this text from the New York Times and pretend. Oh, okay. <Laugh>. It makes perfect sense. Okay. The IBM researchers in the new study performed a different task. One that interests physicists. They used a quantum processor. Ooh, it's 127 qubits. Okay. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. That's about yay. Big to Dissimilate. And

Stacey Higginbotham (01:16:01):
They're using it to model this,

Leo Laporte (01:16:03):
This problem. The behavior problem of 127 atom scale bar magnets. That's really, really small bar magnets. Okay. tiny enough. These bar magnets, cuz they're size of an atom to be governed by. And this, I'm not making this up. The spooky rules of quantum mechanics. O sp Okay.

Jeff Jarvis (01:16:26):
Spook. Is that, is that different from the creepy rules of social media?

Leo Laporte (01:16:30):
I

Stacey Higginbotham (01:16:30):
Spooky. They they actually use this in physics. This is actually a physics

Leo Laporte (01:16:34):
Term. Yeah. Or not somebody like fineman coined the term Spooky.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:16:37):
Yeah. The spooky. Yeah. and it's because it's

Leo Laporte (01:16:40):
Einstein. Einstein said unknown was spooky unknown. That's right. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:16:44):
It's

Leo Laporte (01:16:44):
Spooky

Stacey Higginbotham (01:16:44):
Action. We don't know.

Leo Laporte (01:16:46):
Yeah, we don't, it's spooky. We don't know Einstein. It's

Stacey Higginbotham (01:16:49):
Not a zero, it's not a one. Could be both. Didn't both. It's

Leo Laporte (01:16:51):
Spooky. Didn't, he didn't like it. He didn't buy it. He said God does not play dice with the universe. But he was wrong. He was wrong. So apparently this problem is actually cannot be solved. Even in the largest, fastest supercomputers. It's just too complex on the quantum computer. Get ready this calculation that a supercomputer can't even do. The quantum computer solved it in less than a thousandth of a second. Mm. How does it it Right or wrong? Well, you right. I know, I know you don't.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:17:20):
But, so here, here's actually, but for, for complex but solvable instances, the quantum and computer, the quantum and the traditional computer produced different answers. But the quantum one was right.

Ant Pruitt (01:17:33):
So Oh, according to who? Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:17:35):
That's to me, according.

Leo Laporte (01:17:36):
That's really interesting. People right here, these people, the ones wearing all the glasses, those are the smart people. There's,

Ant Pruitt (01:17:42):
There's like two

Stacey Higginbotham (01:17:43):
Berkeley researchers at Berkeley.

Leo Laporte (01:17:45):
Yeah. They're smart people. See there it is. There's the IBM

Stacey Higginbotham (01:17:48):
And ibm,

Leo Laporte (01:17:48):
Sorry. It's only 127 quantum. Qubits. Qubits. But why is this? It's giant. It's, that's a lots in a room. It's a lot of qubits.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:17:57):
Yeah. That's actually significant. Well, cuz like to keep things in quantum state, you have to, like, if you're gonna isolate things in a quantum state, you need to pack it, it, it needs to be vacuum packed or it needs to be kept really cold. There's like lots of things cuz they're, they want to not, they want to fluctuate and we've gotta keep 'em stable and make them fluctuate in constrained circumstances. So it takes a lot of, I mean, physical, like actual power, like power consumption to keep things cold. But it, it takes a lot of energy to keep something that wants to change stable and then change it only when you want it to.

Leo Laporte (01:18:35):
So anyway, this is a fairly big breakthrough. I'm told <laugh>,

Ant Pruitt (01:18:41):
Did you know that if you took the tight end and had him run just maybe two yards outside of the linebacker and stopped right in front of the free safety, that'll allow your split in to go over the top on the post route and you can hit him at about 20 yards down the field. 10. Did you know that?

Leo Laporte (01:18:59):
How fast did you figure that out? <Laugh>? He is. I feel it. Computer. That's what

Ant Pruitt (01:19:04):
It sounded like. Y'all saying to me.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:19:06):
I thought I explained it really well.

Leo Laporte (01:19:08):
What the hell are y'all talking about? <Laugh>? anyway, New York Times says a new era has begun. Can you feel it?

Ant Pruitt (01:19:20):
Sure, sure.

Leo Laporte (01:19:21):
<Laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (01:19:23):
I'm sorry Mrs. Higginbotham. I just

Stacey Higginbotham (01:19:25):
Don't get that. No, it's okay. I was trying,

Leo Laporte (01:19:27):
I now understand football though. I have to say something clicked.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:19:31):
I still have no idea. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:19:32):
Something about tight ends. And let's see. For the first time ever in the first five months of this year, wind and solar generated more power than coal in the us Current scientific American. But the guy who wrote this or act, I guess he's quoting Andy Blumenfeld and the analyst who tracks the industry at McCloskey. You might be curious what Andy's thoughts about this are. From a coal perspective, it has been a disaster. <Laugh>, the decline is happening faster than anyone anticipated. That's my West Virginia accent. <Laugh>. That's so good. It's not good.

Ant Pruitt (01:20:18):
You're no, you're

Leo Laporte (01:20:19):
Asking it's not good. Coal is in deep trouble. Power markets have witnessed a precipitous drop in coal fire generation this year driven by low natural gas prices. A mild winter and a wave of coal plant retirements. But I think renewable energy, Gigi is a good thing. A lot of jobs, it doesn't pollute as much. Everything pollutes, I'm polluting right now.

Ant Pruitt (01:20:45):
Remember at one time it seemed like whenever the discuss that's cause I had an impossible

Leo Laporte (01:20:49):
Burger for lunch.

Ant Pruitt (01:20:50):
Oh gosh. <Laugh>, whenever there's a discussion of, of, of, you know, trying to get rid of all of this stuff going on with coal, the first argument was all the jobs that wanna be lost, but

Leo Laporte (01:21:01):
There aren't that many coal miners in

Ant Pruitt (01:21:03):
Probably said right there. There's, we're creating jobs now. And that shouldn there's new jobs, been in an argument

Leo Laporte (01:21:07):
Before in, in, in renewables. That's right. Wind and solar generated 252 terawatt hours in the first five months of the year compared to 249 terawatt hours from coal. We're still generating an awful lot of mm-hmm. <Affirmative> power with coal. But good coal generated almost half the country's electricity as recently as 2008.

Ant Pruitt (01:21:29):
And

Leo Laporte (01:21:32):
Fortunately it's been in a steady decline ever since. It's a wave of older coal facilities retired, replaced by combination of natural gas and renewables. Natural gas has its own issues. Of course, I

Jeff Jarvis (01:21:43):
Have a better energy source. Yes. Stacy's keyboard fingers. She,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:21:48):
I was writing about analog computing.

Leo Laporte (01:21:51):
Nice. For

Stacey Higginbotham (01:21:52):
Ai.

Leo Laporte (01:21:53):
Nice. We

Jeff Jarvis (01:21:54):
Could harness your

Stacey Higginbotham (01:21:56):
Flopping, but we could, if it were a pi, if I, I had a Pazo sensor in there. Every time I tracked down, I could be generating key, like could power my Bluetooth to connect my, once

Jeff Jarvis (01:22:06):
I tell you Yes. If

Leo Laporte (01:22:07):
You just had, if you wore a corduroy shirt, you could generate static electricity. It's

Stacey Higginbotham (01:22:12):
Static electricity.

Leo Laporte (01:22:16):
Let's see. Google is finally gonna launch, actually this one's up your alley. Jeff, it is. It's long delayed news showcase product this summer company. So what, this was kind of a response to the whole snippets and link text. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (01:22:34):
It's, it's you know, Google says we're not gonna pay for content for search and that kind of stuff, but we're gonna like YouTube. This is the problem. Leo, you said that they shouldn't own YouTube. They shouldn't have content. Well, the publishers pushed them to say, pay us for something. Google wasn't gonna pay them for the old things. So they created a new product, Google Showcase. They have 150 publishers in the US who are up there. They're gonna pay him some buckets of money to go away. But at the same exact time, the News Media Association, news, news Leaders Association, <laugh> is, is once again lobbying to get the J C P A, the Journalism Something Protection Act passed. California is about to pass their version of this in which they're gonna, so the publishers on the one hand are saying, thank you, Google, I'll take your money and put it in my pocket. On the other hand, they're saying, God kill Google and make them give us even more money. And I don't know what's gonna happen here. I i, wall

Leo Laporte (01:23:39):
Street Journal says News Corp has reached a global multi-year deal with Google, combined annual revenue of more than a hundred million New York Times deal with Google will pay a hundred million a year over three years. Is this gonna be a news product like Google News? I mean, we already have Google News. Is this

Jeff Jarvis (01:23:55):
Gonna be like, it's pretty much it. I think it's pretty much that. It's just a, it's a showcase of these places. And I guess this means that I don't know. This is the one thing. I don't know if I read a Wall Street Journal story on Google. Will I get it for free? It's a little

Leo Laporte (01:24:12):
Weird. Don't. That deals

Stacey Higginbotham (01:24:13):
With like Reddit, where if you're a Reddit user, you could go past the paywall

Leo Laporte (01:24:16):
And publication sometimes, you know, could they do something like that? I should look at this cuz Apple has Apple News, which I pay for and I think I get some Wall Street Journal articles for free. I pay for the Wall Street Journal. But let me just look here.

Jeff Jarvis (01:24:30):
Stop showing off your new computer.

Leo Laporte (01:24:32):
Let me just open up this fine light,

Jeff Jarvis (01:24:34):
Gosh,

Leo Laporte (01:24:35):
15 inch laptop that I, it doesn't

Jeff Jarvis (01:24:37):
Make any noise.

Leo Laporte (01:24:38):
It's very quiet. It's all solid state personalized ads in Apple apps. Okay. Turn on personalized ads. I was

Jeff Jarvis (01:24:47):
Wrong. It's a thousand publishers.

Leo Laporte (01:24:49):
That's a lot. They're not gonna all make as much as we just quoted. Yeah. So here's a Wall Street Journal article and yeah, I can read it on, on Apple News without ads. But Apple puts its own ads in there. So they must have made a rev share

Jeff Jarvis (01:25:04):
A deal. Yeah. They license or, or a licensing deal. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:25:08):
I can look at the New Yorkers same thing. Oh, and

Jeff Jarvis (01:25:11):
I'm wrong again. It's 150 publications in the news showcase. Google's also doing other nice things for a thousand publishers.

Leo Laporte (01:25:17):
Yeah. Google still has its news initiative, which invests in local news organizations.

Jeff Jarvis (01:25:22):
Though. If J CPA passes, I think the news initiative would die. Yeah. And Google would say, okay, you get money out of us through Bakish, you're not gonna get money out of us for charity.

Leo Laporte (01:25:30):
I mean, look, I understand everybody's desires to save journalism,

Jeff Jarvis (01:25:35):
But saving some of these papers isn't saving journalism. Some of them are crap <laugh> you say not us. Yeah. What?

Leo Laporte (01:25:43):
Yeah, I mean, you, you, obviously, this is, this is kind of your subject house. This is your wheelhouse. So when the tight end, just explain to me that mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, <laugh>, <laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (01:25:56):
I put it in Discord. I

Leo Laporte (01:25:57):
See. I'm seeing it. Yes. It's very good. It's,

Jeff Jarvis (01:25:59):
It's a great explanation right

Leo Laporte (01:26:00):
There. Yeah. Right there. <Laugh> there. Oh, it's obvious. See,

Ant Pruitt (01:26:03):
Y is the tight end. Yeah. And if Y goes across the field. Yeah. What should happen is this person here would follow y Yeah. And so you dump it behind to X right there. And, and the

Leo Laporte (01:26:16):
Free safety is where pulled off. You just didn't get pulled off by the out. We have the wrong camera. And then, and then your, your wide receiver can catch the ball and nobody's gonna stop him. He's gonna go right into the end zone

Ant Pruitt (01:26:27):
Else. If free safety goes to X over

Leo Laporte (01:26:30):
Here, then you pass the y

Ant Pruitt (01:26:31):
Leaves the

Leo Laporte (01:26:32):
Y Cause you got a tight end. So it's a, it's an option. Tandem routes. It's a, it's a tandem route. See? Tr we call it <laugh> tr It's a tr it's a tan wrap. I wanna watch a football game. Coach, coach. You explain it all to me. I, when I was a kid, I had a loose leaf book. Frank Gifford Wow. Teaches Football Man. And it had a lot of these kind of diagrams in it. And I didn't know what it meant, but it was cool. And I had, I I, we used to play on the back lot there. It was. Oh my

Ant Pruitt (01:27:01):
Gosh. We had the plays. I didn't understand them. Oh

Leo Laporte (01:27:04):
No. But we ran them

Ant Pruitt (01:27:05):
Somehow.

Leo Laporte (01:27:06):
Yeah. <laugh>, I'm doing a tr right now.

Ant Pruitt (01:27:10):
Sorry for derailing this <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:27:13):
I wasn't that interested in journalism. Anyway. <laugh>. So what are we gonna do to see here? Here? <laugh>, Daisy's Media allergy. What are we gonna do? All right. Lemme do an ad. You know what? We could be outta here and having waffles before the sun goes down. Would you like to do that? Wait, what is happening? <Laugh>? I, you know what? I I I'm not even hungry yet. Oh. Well, let me then do the Google change log. Wow. The Google change log. Great stuff happening from Google. This week. Google was happy to announce that Google lens can now identify rashes and other skin conditions. <Laugh>, just point your phone at your lesions. And now this is really helpful, but I would not wanna have been on the team that had to train it. Cause pictures of rashes are disgusting. The new Google lens capability will search skin conditions that are visually similar to what you're seeing on your skin. The company notes search results are informational only, not a diagnosis. Consult your medical authority for advice,

Ant Pruitt (01:28:23):
Please.

Leo Laporte (01:28:24):
Oh, stop. Oh, don't look. Don't look. Don't look. Scan right by.

Ant Pruitt (01:28:27):
You can calling. Thank you,

Leo Laporte (01:28:29):
<Laugh>. Geez, that was really gross. Okay. I don't want know. Oh. You have atopic dermatitis. You know, a simple sav or, or lotion that will help with that. All right. So I have rosacea. How do I do this? Just let's see. Is it out now? Today he is let lens, today it's announcing another. So yeah. Use lens on your, on your picture of your, of your warts. Google. I have pk. See? Oh, don't do that. I don't want to see that. That's disgusting. It's,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:29:05):
Dude, if I'm wearing short sleeves, you can see it regardless. It's not disgusting.

Leo Laporte (01:29:11):
No, I'm just, I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about about Jeff's nostrils. I don't know. I don't don't even know what PK is. There's a show of thumbnail. I don't, no, it's not disgusting. It's beautiful. It's beautiful.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:29:24):
Oh, okay. Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:29:26):
Immersive. The maps, let's see. There's a bunch of stuff. Google previewed glanceable directions early as here to bring live trip progress directly to your directions. Route overview screen. This is worse In quantum computing <laugh>, you'll get current ETA's re-routes and directions on where to turn without having to start navigation. So it's like, it's navigation without navigation. Like it's sort of kinda like, knows what you're up to cuz it's watching you walk around and it'll give you some ideas. Okay. As you go. That's fine.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:29:57):
Ooh, that's super creepy.

Leo Laporte (01:29:59):
Yeah, this is exactly the, you know what Eric Schmitz said, you know, as you walk, helpful could be. Well, that's the thing. Or

Stacey Higginbotham (01:30:06):
Helpful. Well, that's, that's both. And people travel. I had pk, but I have KP and it diagnosed it, it was one of my two options.

Leo Laporte (01:30:13):
Good. It worked. How did you ask Stacy?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:30:16):
I just did a lens search. I just took the lens all

Leo Laporte (01:30:19):
And so it's working. Sure. Nice. I actually think that's great. I think that, I mean, right now you send it to your d sometimes you send it to, to your doctor and you say talk.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:30:29):
No. Right now you're like, you have to say, I have a weird rash on my ankle that has, it's embarrassing, that has

Leo Laporte (01:30:34):
This, this, and this. Yeah. It's better to have do it and didn't have to wait two minutes for

Stacey Higginbotham (01:30:37):
It in, but then it shows you all those fi photos. But this just gives you the relevant photos, which is nice.

Leo Laporte (01:30:45):
More and more people are getting the sge, the search generative experience, AI powered snapshots. Sure. If you ask about a place or destination, you'll even get reviews as part of the sge on the shopping front search is getting a virtual try-on tool. This is from nine to five Google that uses generative AI to predict how close will drape, fold, clinging, stretch and form wrinkles and shadows on a diverse set of real models in various poses. Sure. This is, I have to say, in all honesty, in my 66 years, I have never considered how any article of clothing will drape, fold, cling, stretch or form wrinkles on my body. What neither have I

Stacey Higginbotham (01:31:30):
What of course you have, that is how you measure if clothing fits or not.

Leo Laporte (01:31:36):
Oh, that's, that, that's what that's called. I know how I, if it fits, if it's tight or loose. <Laugh>. That's how it fits.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:31:43):
Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Please explain the things you're looking for when you try on an outfit or something. Okay. You're actually looking like, does it give me a weird thing like, kid is across my chest. Oh, well then maybe that's a little too tight. Or does it, I don't know, do something like this then maybe it's too big on my shoulders. I it's hard cuz I work most mostly fit me. Okay. I mean, but that's, that's the drape. And then how it falls. Like is it gonna skim like the fat parts of your body or is it gonna fall in a flattering way? Is it more structured? Okay. I

Leo Laporte (01:32:16):
Actually care, care of that. Stuff like that. I think about that only when it was time to go buy a suit and get Yeah. You don't want a suit to look grumbly. That's the only time. Yeah, I guess so. Women are always wearing suits. <Laugh>, this is starting with anthropology. Everlane h and m and Loft <laugh> look for Turn the Tryon badge and then select a model that resonates most with you. This is actually interesting because they're using the monk skin tone scale to match your skin tone, body shape and ethnicities and hair types. So they want to get the match, the, the body that matches good stuff. I'm not gonna, which that's actually

Stacey Higginbotham (01:33:00):
Really cool because

Leo Laporte (01:33:01):
Models Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:33:02):
Only,

Leo Laporte (01:33:04):
Yeah, they all look the same

Stacey Higginbotham (01:33:06):
Pretty much. And they don't look like the rest of us mostly.

Leo Laporte (01:33:09):
How many times have I looked at a catalog and say, I'm gonna buy that, but it's not gonna look that way on me. You know that. I say that all the time. Yeah. And yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:33:17):
That's true. And it's the, the draping and the folding that are gonna make it look different.

Leo Laporte (01:33:22):
Help me write, comes to Gmail for Android and iOS. This is a ai right in your in your mail, like on the desktop app, you're first greet with an introductory prop for generative AI after word to help me Right button will appear in the bottom right corner. Tapping it lets you enter a prompt with a create button featuring a blue purple wave. As it works, you generate a new one and leave feedback before inserting it. Do you, have any of you received any emails yet that look like an AI wrote them? Oh all the time. Also known as pitch mails. Yeah. All my emails <laugh>, all my emails look like, hi. Hands on photography. We love your show. Yeah, that's a big one. <Laugh>. Yeah. I listen all the time. Didn't know that was my name. Yeah. Let's see. Should I just pick one of my many, many let's see. I I really like the ones. Oh, here's one. Hello. Alex <laugh>. I'm reaching out on behalf of, I won't name the company mm-hmm <affirmative> to share news about the impact of artificial intelligence on job sectors in the United States. Delete. Yeah. You know, somebody subscribed me to a whole bunch of Trump email and it's disappeared. You have fans. It was me, <laugh>.

(01:34:49):
I actually enjoy getting Gotcha. I enjoy it because like, like the day, like the minutes after he left the courtroom yesterday. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> or Monday? No, yesterday. They was getting emails saying, help me pay for this. You know, basically. Right. Yeah. Raised $2 million the first couple hours. That's a business man. It's a good business. <Laugh>. It's a good business. Google's new generative ai. Oh, I did that. June feature drop plus Android. 13. QPR three. Rolling out all about Android. Probably talked about this yesterday. On the Pixel seven Pro. You got macro video, Palm Timer, new wallpapers, new home panel. Pixel Watch also got new features. SPO two Tracking, oxygen tracking. What's the sp it's your oxygenation. Sp spoke to it. It's the oxygen levels in your blood. Yeah. It's like a, like a pulse oximeter. High and low. I don't, my watch broke.

(01:35:49):
Should I get a Google watch? No. Get an Apple watch. No. Get a real phone. Phone. I don't have, I'm not in the in the cult. Get a real phone. Join the cult. Get an Apple watch. Then you can get the Vision Pro in a year with, for <laugh>. I love the phone. I just hate iOS. What do you mean you love the phone but you hate iOS? The hardware, like the hardware. Hardware is, is great, but I don't like iOS. Pixel watch has oxygen tracking, high, low HR heart rate alerts. And a metal band is coming. I'm sorry, is it a metal band or a metal band or a rock or a rock band? <Laugh>. That's terrible for like airports. Like I, yeah. Don't wear metal through an airport. No, this is a metal band. What am I talking about? It's titanium.

(01:36:34):
Oh yeah. I just take it off. I don't, when I go through the metal detector, I just take it off. Yeah. I don't take things off. There is no taking off. Then you get what you get kicks nothing off. I did actually inquire how this band would drape, fold and ate on my wrist just to make sure it work. Google Home launches a powerful script editor for automation. Stacy, that's my thing of the week. Woohoo. Oh, well but since you stole it. No. I'll keep moving on cuz I have another one. I have another one. It's fine. No, I want to hear about it cuz we don't, I don't know. Youtube drastically lowers requirements for video monetization. I found that interesting. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> considering more and more people are getting on the platform. Used to be you had to have like a thousand have a thousand subscribers.

(01:37:16):
Now it's 500. There was a thousand plus. I can't remember the amount of watch time. 3000 hours. Watch time is the new standard for shorts. 3 million valid public shorts views in 90 days though. That's hard. That's still a lot. Yeah. they used to have four thou wa 4,000 watch hours and a thousand subscribers or 10 million shorts views. So I think this is a sensible adjustment. They do you use Google Photos? I do. Their website is adding advanced editing tools that you might have seen before in Google. One including portrait light, portrait blurred dynamic color, pop, H d R and Sky. Very similar to the tools if you are to use these on Android. But it's now on the desktop.

Ant Pruitt (01:38:03):
That is, that'll be nice to see.

Leo Laporte (01:38:07):
And at a Glance comes to the Pixel watch. Hm. Useful. Yeah. I'm surprised he didn't have it to be honest with you. What a glance. What?

Ant Pruitt (01:38:21):
No, the little at a Glance featured us on the home screen of your phone. Android phone.

Leo Laporte (01:38:25):
That, that Right. Oh, I see. Oh, okay. It's a complication on the watch. You need a, it's only available in the rectangular complication slot of the modular two or modular three layouts of the utility watch face. Some third party faces may also make it available. It is, is kind of an extension of the assistant. It gives you some of that assistant information, weather, aqi, that kind of stuff. And that's as far as I know, the Google change log.

Ant Pruitt (01:38:55):
Right on cue. Does

Leo Laporte (01:38:56):
Any other show have these Oh, all about Andrea. It's loaded with them. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just think we ought to have more of 'em, is what I'm saying. <Laugh> more features, more intros and outro. More stuff. Stacey, we need one. You know, whatever. Stacy puts hands more Stacy in her hand. And now it's time for this week in ai. Oh yeah. Pop. Yeah. There we go. Perfect. There you go. Sir. Paul McCartney says AI has enabled a final Beatles song. The song has cleaned up John Lennon vocals. They think it comes from a 1978 Lennon composition called now and then. But Sir Paul has not said they were considering it as a reunion song for NI in the Beatles in 1995 when they were working on anthology. Sir Paul had received the demo, according to the BBC, a year earlier from Lennon's widow Yoko Ono.

(01:40:00):
It was on a cassette labeled for Paul that Lennon made just before he was assassinated in 1980. Oh geez. But it's Lofi, the tracks were recorded onto a boombox as a musician set at a piano in the New York apartment. So the band had attempted to clean up now and then, which was apparently a, a kind of an apology to Paul. Mm huh. But they couldn't really clean it up Sir Paul said Jefflin tried it of the Electric Light Orchestra. He wasn't able to. We spent a day, an afternoon really messing with it, but they couldn't make it work. George Harrison refused to work on the song saying the sound quality of Lennon's vocal was rubbish. It needed a lot of, we reworking it had a beautiful verse. It had John singing because George didn't like it. We didn't do it. But AI has no opinion. And so they're gonna work on it. And apparently we'll be released soon.

(01:41:09):
We haven't had a new Beatles song in a long, long time. It'll be released sometime this year according to Okay. The be the be. Yeah. That's cool. You, I mean, there was a lot of computer, I guess you could call it AI processing done to make the Peter Jackson film Get Back, which was incredible footage shot of The Beatles rehearsing and preparing for a live performance from the Let It Be, which basically was the Let It Be album. And you, you actually saw them writing the album stuff, but it was originally recorded. They didn't want the vocal, the vocal dialogue, the conversations, they just wanted the music. So it was Mike for the music and you couldn't hear the voices. Peter Jackson used all sorts of AI techniques to bring the voices up. If you've not seen it get back. It's on the Disney Plus channel. It's amazing watching Paul McCartney write, get back and let it be, you know, working at stuff with John and, and and George. It's really, and Ringo's really amazing. So it's

Ant Pruitt (01:42:07):
Okay cuz I sort of heard a mixed bag about

Leo Laporte (01:42:10):
It. It's long <laugh>, it's many hours, I don't know, eight hours and not a lot happens. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> if you'd have to be a Beatles fan.

Ant Pruitt (01:42:17):
Cause what I hear is basically they're just sort of sitting around doing their thing. They're

Leo Laporte (01:42:20):
Noodling and talking.

Ant Pruitt (01:42:22):
It's just, just like us an just like us. It's just like this show long are sitting around noodling. Look here and Mr. Jar, Ringo, we were there tired, entertaining on this. I would never let us do that for eight hours. But I

Leo Laporte (01:42:32):
Have to say, if your

Ant Pruitt (01:42:34):
Beetles wait, did you just say it was Ringo? <Laugh>. Wow. I didn't say that. I said we are entertaining on this show. Okay. Alright. Alright then. Jeff, which beetle, which beetle are each of us? I don't know. <Laugh>. I was probably just a, the security guard

Leo Laporte (01:42:52):
Of Yeah. None of us are like the Beatles in any form or fashion. No.

Ant Pruitt (01:42:56):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:42:58):
Researchers.

Ant Pruitt (01:42:58):
Which monkeys are each of us though? No. <laugh> itch Anyway.

Leo Laporte (01:43:02):
If, if, if you're a

Ant Pruitt (01:43:04):
Nickelbacks are each

Leo Laporte (01:43:05):
Of us. No, I could actually be Mike Smeth. If you are a Beatles fan, it's really amazing. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it's really interesting to watch Paul sit down at piano, start noodling around and all of a sudden let it be comes out. Yeah. Is like It is. That's an amazing,

Ant Pruitt (01:43:22):
See, I, I could dig stuff like that.

Leo Laporte (01:43:24):
It's about the creative process. Yeah. I would really watch it if I were you. Yeah. See,

Ant Pruitt (01:43:27):
I could

Leo Laporte (01:43:27):
Dig that. There's, there's also a very good interview with Paul McCartney that Rick Rubin does. The producer called McCartney 1 23. I can't remember where that is. Uhhuh. But it's also Paul talking about their process. I'm interested in the creative process. Yeah. I'm a huge Beatles fan. Watching Get Back is watching probably the greatest musicians of that time at their peak of Yes. Ability. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative> working together. It was shortly before the band broke up though. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So there's some tensions, but working together to create and watching them Right. Get back and make it up is brilliant. It's amazing. Oh, so did you get Rick, you haven't steered me wrong yet. I did get Rick Rubin's. I gave it to Lisa for her birthday. Oh. And we, we haven't worked through it yet, but I, I wanna work through it cuz it's all about creativity.

(01:44:11):
Nice. Yeah. I'll give it a try. You haven't steered me on yet. Get a ni It's National Bourbon Day. Get a nice bourbon, nice cigar. I'll see you soon. Bevmo. Don't be in a big hurry. <Laugh> cuz it's slow. You know, it's really slow. Yeah. But it's very inter I think it's a, it's a docu It's, it's a document of Right. Of something that was going on in 1969. It's fascinating. Yeah. Researchers have <laugh> discovered that chat, G p t isn't really that funny. Oh. The, when tested over 90% of the thousand eight generated jokes were the same 25 jokes. The irony is, this is from a German. German researchers we're not known for their sense of humor. They released a paper this was with Che Gpt 3.5, not the latest, but they asked to tell a joke, tell a joke, tell a joke, and basically came down to about 25. No, as an example, why did the Scarecrow win an award? Why it was outstanding in its field. Oh no. That's why did the tomato turn red? Why, but you know, the answers to these cuz I saw the salad dressing. Why was the math book? Oh, sad. Horrible. They're terrible. Terrible. No good jokes. Yeah. That was pain on Ann's face. Ugh. I

Stacey Higginbotham (01:45:32):
Used to have a joke book for that. Had 500 of those for my kid. Right. In Chad g PT couldn't absorb

Leo Laporte (01:45:37):
All of them. You remember though, how we in the, in the beautiful dawn of ai, we were talking about it understands humor. That's a really interesting sign that it's, it's, you know, it's somehow No, it doesn't. It's making Well, but no, when you, when you did that stuff on the show, when you, when you apologized for having, what was it, Jason on Cal Cannis. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Didn't you use it to, to write an apology for having teleco? I did. And I wrote a very good apology, which I never, it was funny. Yeah. Too. Yeah. It was, it was funny. So, you know, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know that. I'm just, I'm just, I'm only, I'm calling them as I see 'em. Google is postponing Bard's EU launch because the EU is worry about privacy. The Irish privacy watchdog said Google hasn't given us, sorry, Google hasn't given us sufficient information about how to respect the eus data privacy rules. Oh. <laugh>. I don't, they freeze Irish. It's Irish and I like it too. They, I think that's the problem. They're, they just don't know. Anyway, Bard's not gonna launch this weekend. And I, and you can thank the, the, the leprechaun for that. <Laugh> doctors, however, are using chat. G P T. What do you think they're using it for? Diagnosing strange rashes conditions? No, they're using it to improve their bedside manner. <Laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (01:47:09):
Hmm. Interesting.

Leo Laporte (01:47:10):
Apparently some doctors are so poor at relating to humans. They're going to a computer for help.

Ant Pruitt (01:47:17):
I'll give them credit for at least considering that tracks. Yeah. Yeah. At least considering it. Yeah. Because of all of the stories that I have heard Yeah. About doctor's offices. Yeah. At least they're

Leo Laporte (01:47:29):
Trying, it was like, it was like my apology letter. They're going to chat g PT to help them. You know, I have a patient, I have some very bad news I need to give them. What would be a humane, compassionate way to communicate that news? What would be humane, compassionate way to communicate. You had Jason Gallas on the show. Yeah, yeah, exactly. <Laugh> and, and we know patients care. In one survey, 85% of patients reported a doctor's compassion was more important than waiting time or cost.

Ant Pruitt (01:47:57):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, no <laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:47:59):
And three quarters of people, I want that

Ant Pruitt (01:48:01):
Cost down.

Leo Laporte (01:48:02):
So Yeah. Well, three quarters of Well it goes together. Sort of. If you're compassionate, you wouldn't charge me a thousand dollars to tell me I have a kp rash. Right. In another survey, nearly three quarters of respondents said they had gone to doctors who were not compassionate. Who hasn't, right? Mm. And a study of doctors' conversations with the family of dying. Patients found many were not very empathetic. It's hard. So here's a way. Oh

Stacey Higginbotham (01:48:27):
Yeah. Cuz there, I mean, doctors are trained to, to keep you alive. So coming to tell someone Right. They can't keep you. It's basically like, Hey, I can't do my job. I

Ant Pruitt (01:48:35):
Failed. Right.

Leo Laporte (01:48:37):
I,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:48:37):
Yeah. That's hard for anyone.

Leo Laporte (01:48:45):
How can doctors better help patients who are drinking too much alcohol but have not stopped? After talking to a therapist, Dr. Penoni asked his team to write a script for how to talk to these patients. Compa compassionately. A week later, no one had done it. All he had was a text, his research coordinator and his social worker on the team had put together. And that was not a true script. So he went to this, this is Dr. Michael Poni, chairman of the Department of Internal Medicine at UT Austin. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you wanna sing a song? Oh, no. <Laugh>. Aren't you an alumna of UT Austin?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:49:21):
I am. But

Leo Laporte (01:49:23):
She

Ant Pruitt (01:49:23):
Did give us a hell. Really? She did give us a hook.

Leo Laporte (01:49:26):
Hook them, hook 'em. Horns.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:49:29):
Is that the right one? Or is it this one?

Ant Pruitt (01:49:31):
That's correct. No, no, no, no.

Leo Laporte (01:49:32):
This, it's this. There you go. That's Razzi Osborn Orange. Beautiful nails, Clemson color. Clemson colored

Ant Pruitt (01:49:39):
Nails. Yeah. One of the, one of the colors of orange. Yes. Yes. <Laugh>. She, she didn't, she did

Leo Laporte (01:49:44):
Well. So Dr. Pinon tried Chape, G P T, which replied instantly with all the talking points the doctors wanted. Social workers though said the script needed to be revised for patients with little medical knowledge and translated into Spanish the ultimate result. Which this is all from the New York Times. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, which chat g p t produced when asked to rewrite it at a fifth grade reading level began with a reassuring introduction. Oh, nice. If this is for you, Anne. Okay. If you think you drink too much alcohol, you're not alone. Many people have this problem, but there are medicines that can help you feel better and have a healthier, happier life.

Ant Pruitt (01:50:25):
Yes. And it's called moonshine that was filtered through a four barrow carburetor

Leo Laporte (01:50:30):
<Laugh>. Have you ever heard of heroin?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:32):
Are there medicines for alcoholism?

Leo Laporte (01:50:34):
Yeah. Well, there's anab abuse, which makes you throw up if you drink. Yeah. All right. That's not exactly helping you feel better at having a healthier Well, I was just life,

Ant Pruitt (01:50:43):
It's like negative reinforcement.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:44):
What's, what's the, what's the

Leo Laporte (01:50:44):
Shot everybody's taking for,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:45):
For ozempic? Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:50:47):
PIC has an impact on Oh, behaviors. I asked my daughter, I said, I'm thinking of getting ozempic. She said, no, you should get no ozempic. She said the problem with No, that gpt joke. No, she said, <laugh>. She said, the problem with Ozempic is you have to take it for the rest of your life. Cuz if you stop, you gain more weight back. Oh. And start drinking. So, but I was gonna, I was gonna ask my doctor for that. Or rebels. Rebels is just a pill. Well,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:51:17):
You should probably ask your doctor and see what they say. Yeah. And don't just take, is your daughter a doctor?

Leo Laporte (01:51:23):
No. <laugh>? No, not at all. <Laugh>. Oh, okay.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:51:26):
I, I'm just, but I think she's right.

Leo Laporte (01:51:28):
I, I don't know. I'll ask,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:51:29):
I think some people can gain some of the weight. Like yes, it is something that you have to stay on, but you can also,

Leo Laporte (01:51:36):
I wouldn't want to take it for the rest

Stacey Higginbotham (01:51:38):
Of the life. I think you can help change your metabolic face.

Leo Laporte (01:51:40):
Oh, I've heard amazing stories. It's the it's the drug that everybody in Hollywood's doing.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:51:45):
Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Leo Laporte (01:51:47):
Doctor. Anyway, so that's that's, they said it was a good script and I, I made fun of it, but I did that idea though. Yeah. It's, yeah. I think it makes sense. It's, I mean, I couldn't write an apology letter for Jason, but that did, it was great. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (01:52:01):
Did you see the breaking news in our discord

Leo Laporte (01:52:03):
For Oh, dear. What, what's the news right there? What's the news? Twitter is being evicted. Oh, yeah. This is not breaking. I saw this earlier. There we go. The bumper <laugh>. Oh, that was, there we go. The whole point was to do this. Yes. <laugh>, that's breaking news. Twitter is being what I'm talking about, affected from its Boulder office. Boulder, Colorado. It's three months behind in its rent. And a judge has signed off on e evicting Twitter from its Boulder office. Twitter hasn't paid rent as far as I know anywhere. So we'll see what happens.

Ant Pruitt (01:52:39):
Makes sense though, right? Yeah. They don't, they don't care.

Leo Laporte (01:52:42):
They don't care. All right. Let us get our final add in. And then Stacy has her pick and Jeff has a number. Jeez, you're lazy. Yeah, no, I'm excited. I, and I'm gonna go home. <Laugh>, but <laugh>,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:52:58):
Yeah. We're not calling him lazy. We do not shame people who do reasonably long

Leo Laporte (01:53:02):
Shows. We're gonna be, we're gonna be over two hours. I feel like if I'm over two hours, I'm good. Yeah, that's a good job.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:53:09):
Yeah. Yeah. We've given them their money's worth. You're fine. <Laugh>,

Leo Laporte (01:53:18):
Because Stacy, I wanted to hear about your threat about privacy and data protection task force.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:53:23):
Oh, you could read it in my newsletter on Friday.

Leo Laporte (01:53:25):
<Laugh>, what is, what is the privacy sign up? What is that?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:53:32):
Oh, mg Jeff. I will murder you.

Leo Laporte (01:53:34):
<Laugh>. No, but now we all wanna know <laugh>. I really wanna know. No, <laugh>. What is this, Stacy? Anyway, our show today brought to you. We'll have Stacy can explain or not after this word from our sponsor. Thank you. Sponsors our show today, brought to you by Melissa. The data quality experts, e-commerce. Get this, this number is scary. E-Commerce losses to on online payment fraud. Right? In 20 22, 40 1 billion son with a B wow. That's one reason fraud takes a big bite outta you. But Melissa can solve it. Helping organization tackle identity fraud with an end-to-end process to safely track customer data. They have a whole suite of tools to do this. For example, the biometrics verification step has an algorithm that recognizes a matchup between the user's selfie and their ID. Image. This works really well, and it's nice for the users. It's not intrusive, it's fast, it's easy.

(01:54:45):
Biometrics verification identifies a set of over 60 different facial features distinguishes changes between the selfie and the ID image. So even if you grew a beard, right, it still knows it's you. Facial hair, makeup age difference. That's an old picture. It doesn't matter. Hairstyle, skin imperfections, got a little rash, no problem. Positions in head pose. This technology gives businesses an added layer of security and confidence knowing Yeah, this customer's who they say they are payment fraud, 41 billion in 2022. The financial industry and e-commerce retailers are already using AI powered fraud detection systems to safeguard their customers from fraud. Thanks to Melissa, for example, bank and credit card companies use machine learning algorithms to scrutinize customer data. You can actually tell from the things like the purchase history and the location to, to spot suspicious transactions. Retailers leverage AI powered fraud detection systems to prevent fraudulent orders and chargebacks.

(01:55:51):
With Melissa, you can reduce risk, ensure compliance, and keep customers happy. Melissa's ID tools give you all kinds of nice features. I'll give you a couple proof of life scans. So it checks the face and eye and, and eye movement to make sure that that's a real person. It's not a cardboard cutout. They do document verification that captures ID and document data using, using a machine readable zone and optical character recognition document scanning. So the critical information can be extracted easily from passports, utility bills, drivers licenses, and so forth. Biometrics, of course, uses smart facial recognition and facial comparison algorithms to recognize a match between a selfie and the id. Well, Melissa's been doing this since 1985, long before these technologies were there. They've been there for you to help you keep your address and contact information up to date to enrich it.

(01:56:49):
And now to guarantee that your customer is who they say they are. Melissa continually undergoes independent security audits. So your data is safe and Melissa is fully compliant. SOC two, hipaa, GDPR compliant, your data's protected and compliant. Make sure your customer contact data is up to date. Avoid fraud. It can cost you an awful lot. Bad data can cost you a lot. Get started today with Melissa and 1000 records. Clean for free. Melissa.Com/Twit. That's melissa.com/twit. And now Stacy Higginbotham's, before we get to that, I do wanna hear Stacy on Google Holmes script editor, cuz I figured she'd have a lot

Stacey Higginbotham (01:57:33):
To say about that. So that was my thing of the week. Oh, yay. But yeah, so yeah, you set it up really nicely for me. Thank you. Yes. But do you really, I I will tell you very briefly what the F C C said today, if you want to know. Okay. Sure. Yes, we do want. Okay. The Federal Communications Commission has created a data privacy task force and enforcement bureau. It's gonna be part of their enforcement bureau. They announced this today, and the goal is to figure out a way to stop wireless carriers from selling your data. Oh. And they explained their, their legal ideas and how to do this. So the laws that would allow them to do this. There's a couple. And they also said that they're going to create standards for helping standards that carriers need to follow when not doing sim swaps, but changing out a customer's phone number. So people can't use sim swapping as a way to hack someone's account. So that's also like a nice thing. And they did one other thing that I can't remember right off the top of my head. So these are good steps.

Leo Laporte (01:58:42):
And you're gonna write this up for Friday for Stacy on iot.com.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:58:48):
Yeah. Yeah. So that's why I don't have all three of things right in front of me right now for this

Leo Laporte (01:58:53):
<Laugh>. Oh, no, no, no. That's good. Thank you for doing that. It's

Stacey Higginbotham (01:58:55):
Like my notes over there.

Leo Laporte (01:58:56):
Thank you for getting the story from the fcc. I look forward to reading that and we'll talk next week about it. How about that?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:02):
They or, or not? Whichever

Leo Laporte (01:59:05):
<Laugh>. I'm like,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:07):
I don't, I mean, I don't know how much people care about this.

Leo Laporte (01:59:09):
I like, oh, we know that's from you. We care. Honestly, this is the thing every regulator should be focusing on. We had a story this week. I should actually should have had it in our rundown that the United States,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:24):
Was it from Wired?

Leo Laporte (01:59:25):
Yes. You know what I'm talking about? It was the United States Intelligence agencies buying data from data brokers illegally and using it data about all of us. That's okay.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:35):
What we talked about that in March on our show, because that's actually when the director of the FBI talked about it. What they released was a report that shows how deep this is. And it's really freaking deep. Y'all, you could do Stacy on privacy if you wanna create that section.

Leo Laporte (01:59:50):
No, I, cause I always have a privacy. The US is openly stockpiling dirt on all its citizens. Right. Cameron and Wired. This is the newly declassified report from the office of the director of the National Intelligence. They're buying a ton of, and it's not even legal, right? They're not supposed to be spying on America. Well,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:07):
Here's, here's what they, well, or is it a loophole?

Leo Laporte (02:00:09):
It's the fbi, it's kind of a loophole. So

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:10):
The FBI's doing it and they're in charge of national law enforcement. What they're loop polling is the fourth Amendment, because they're not, it's when they, they're not getting a warrant for this information. So they're basically using a data broker instead of going to a wireless carrier. They're, cuz if you go to a wireless carrier and say, I'm interested in, then

Leo Laporte (02:00:28):
You need a pen warrant or is this phone? Or Yeah, you need a

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:30):
Warrant. You need a warrant. Now to avoid that, they just say, oh, well I'll just call up a data broker. And they get the same information from the data broker without having to go through a warrant. They can also get credit card information, not from the credit card company, just from a data broker. And that's the stuff that they've been buying as outlined in this report. The

Leo Laporte (02:00:52):
Report, there's actually a second. The government believes it can persistently track the phones of millions of Americans without a warrant. As long as it pays for the information. Yeah. So is it

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:02):
Illegal? Right? No one, there's no, I Well, that's

Leo Laporte (02:01:08):
The, that's

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:08):
The thing. So the FTC tried to regulate, the FTC came down against a data broker. They tried to sue a data broker. The data broker fought the suit and the settlement. And basically a federal court said, you know what ftc, you gotta prove harm. Right. To show that these data brokers are nefarious and the FTC couldn't quite PR harm. Now

Leo Laporte (02:01:30):
They may go back, can find somebody, by the way, they may, I think the judge was in effect instructing them. Look, if you want this case to win, you've got to come back with some harm.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:39):
Yes. So if you could actually find out somebody who was Right. Picked up by the FBI without a warrant be, I mean, that's harm. Not saying that the person's innocent, but we do have due process for a reason.

Leo Laporte (02:01:53):
The government actually has the government's position is that this is publicly available data. Anybody can buy it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, so mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, I don't need a, I mean, I don't need a warrant. It's public.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:02:03):
Right. So the fcc, by classifying, well, there's a couple things. Okay. Just, we're gonna put it in the newsletter because there's a lot there. Cuz they're gonna have to classify certain class, like geolocation data right now isn't considered proprietary, and I don't believe it's considered C N P I, which is what the fcc consumer

Leo Laporte (02:02:29):
Oh.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:02:30):
Protected network data, which is data about like what phone number, where it is, how who is attached to it. I'm sorry.

Leo Laporte (02:02:39):
Where it is the, what's really happened is, and the O D N I says this in the report, if the government said, you and you and you, and you, in fact, all of you have to carry a tracking device. And, and we should be able to log and track all your social interactions, know where you are, see everything you do, we, that would be clearly wrong. We voluntarily carry these devices in our pockets. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, that information is then sold by carriers and others you know, app makers mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And the government says, oh, thank you. Thanks very much. I didn't have to make you it. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:03:14):
And actually the government ended up mandating this because we had to have access to E nine 11, which meant every phone has to have gps. Oh. Not that anyone would buy a phone without gps, but, no, that's a good point. You know,

Leo Laporte (02:03:26):
And

Stacey Higginbotham (02:03:27):
Anyway, okay.

Leo Laporte (02:03:28):
Yeah. I think this is a big, we're still talking about privacy. Yeah. No, it's a huge story. And it, it's really an issue. And I think that's the, I mean, when you say, let's ban TikTok, ban TikTok, the Chinese government can also buy this information. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, this information is widely available. That's what we got solved. And again, they're long before the internet. It was, I, as I was, we had, we used Axion at Time Inc. To sell magazines. Yeah. But this is a lot better. And it also, when, when law enforcement says, oh, we're going dark, you know, this end-to-end encryption, we now, it's gonna be very big problem. We won't be able to arrest bad guys. They're not going dark. They have more information than they've ever had before. Technology's enabled them to follow us around. And we're, and we're going along with it. So I think this is a big, I think this might be the biggest story, frankly, of privacy. And really supersedes a lot of these other trivial things that people are worried about. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you think, thank you, Stacy. I will look forward to that report on Friday. Distraction, as you said previously. Yeah. Yeah. Just, you know, don't you know, TikTok is ruining her kids. Yeah. Now Stacy has her thing. Now you're

Stacey Higginbotham (02:04:38):
Thing. So, so my thing, which, you know, I do love privacy script scripts, but this is more free all for real people who wanna play with Google Home. Google Home, if you're in the preview of the new Google Home, which if you're a smart home person, I say, go do it, man. It's awesome. Or at least it's much better. It puts Google on par with more comparable systems. But it also gives you the script editor, which is the only way you're gonna be able to do some of the cool stuff that you can do with like smart things and others when you're doing an automation. It also is the only thing that's gonna allow you to trigger, to create trigger events from sensors, which

Leo Laporte (02:05:16):
Hasn't, this looks pretty darn geeky. I mean, this is programming. So,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:05:20):
Yes. So what you need to do is you need to go to home.google.com and you need to be in your Google account that's tied to your Google Home account, by the way. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. If you, if you're Jeff and you have two accounts, or if you're me and you have two accounts. So when you go there, this is using, is it yaml? Is that how you say it?

Leo Laporte (02:05:41):
Yeah, yaml. Yaml. Yet another markup language.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:05:45):
Yes. <laugh>. But it's, it's pretty,

Leo Laporte (02:05:49):
Oh wow. That's,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:05:50):
I can figure it out. It's

Leo Laporte (02:05:50):
My front door. <Laugh> <laugh>. Oh, wow. Fortunately I've turned off all the other cameras. Holy moly.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:05:59):
Yeah. This is also where you're gonna go in to see your nest cams, which people had wanted web access to their nest

Leo Laporte (02:06:04):
Cams. Yes. Okay. I got that. Yeah. So now I have routines. So I can add a household routine. So let's do a

Stacey Higginbotham (02:06:10):
No, no, no, no, no. Go down. No, no, no. Don't go to add new routine. Go to the right below. Cameras. Go to automations. Yeah. I'm, oh, yes. And then add new, sorry, I'm

Leo Laporte (02:06:18):
Sorry. So let's say bedtime. I'm gonna do a bedtime routine. So, oh, I need the Google Home app to edit it.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:06:25):
No, no, no, no. Don't go there. Go to the

Leo Laporte (02:06:27):
Add up there. Do here, just do add new here. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:06:29):
Okay. See, these are already established

Leo Laporte (02:06:31):
Ones. Oh. Oh, this is,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:06:32):
Here's the script where you're gonna do, yeah. Okay.

Leo Laporte (02:06:36):
Okay. So this is really coding. I understand, but is this like basic or is this something where it's yaml, which means it's yaml? It's a, it's like, it's a markup language. So you have to know what, you have to know some things. My cousin gonna be able to figure this out. Yeah. You gonna be able figure out, gonna figure this out. We could do this.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:06:52):
I, oh, no, not, maybe not. I mean, I'm gonna figure it out, which is, and I don't really code, I don't code at all. Uhhuh, <affirmative>. But you, you can figure out, I mean, cuz you're like TV front door, it's what you've named your devices. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, that's what you gonna be using. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> to like, to

Leo Laporte (02:07:09):
Create a, it also has auto complete. So you, you know, you, if I click here, so it's like a regular ID I can choose from. Yeah. It's kind of an I d e I can choose from, you know, assistant event. Okay. Google or doorbell press or, you know, so forth. So I can respond to a doorbell press here. You know, when the, when the doorbell press happens from the front door and that was all auto-filled then, and there's certain conditions here and can, you know, see what those are then Like

Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:37):
When sunsets

Leo Laporte (02:07:38):
Yeah. When the sun's down. If my doorbell rings after ou after midnight, then release the hounds, that kind of thing.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:46):
Excellent. Yeah. So this is gonna let you do this. And it, it's gonna give you finer grain things. I think this is like the home automation geeks are gonna freaking well, they're not gonna freaking love it cuz they don't freaking love anything, but they, it gives you a lot more power. This is very common. It reminds me of like, Ruby,

Leo Laporte (02:08:02):
You can, are they a grumpy bunch?

Stacey Higginbotham (02:08:04):
Well they just, they have opinion like any deep, like anybody who gets really deep into something, they have opinions about what their favorite things are. And Google is never on that list from a home automation

Leo Laporte (02:08:16):
Standpoint. I see. Oh. So I already have some routines. I have a bedtime routine. I have a, you know, commuting to work routine, a good morning routine, but I can now write and those, those we set up the old fashioned way, you know, you know. Yeah. Kind

Stacey Higginbotham (02:08:29):
Of. And this is track. The only way you're gonna be able to use, to set up a matter device today, like, sorry to use a matter based sensor to trigger an automation. Cuz right now you can't use sensors to trigger automations in the Google Home stuff.

Leo Laporte (02:08:45):
I just pressed Good. The good morning button. I don't know what's happening at home, but it's happening. <Laugh>.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:08:49):
There you go.

Leo Laporte (02:08:50):
I hope nobody's there. Well, everything's just waking up. That's coffee machine fire. This is powerful. I would, I would bet Open Hab and other home automation systems have something similar.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:02):
Yeah. Home assistant. Yeah. Oh yeah, they do. Home assistant has one Smart things took away theirs. Which is really a shame cuz I did use it and I like to use it for troubleshooting actually. Nice.

Leo Laporte (02:09:12):
So visit go home.google.com and if you have Google Home devices you can go, you

Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:18):
Have to be in the public beta, the public preview of the Google Home app,

Leo Laporte (02:09:23):
Apparently for this to work. I don't know how I got there. Yeah. So, I mean, I didn't apply for it. <Laugh>. Yeah. They, they sent you a notification and Oh, okay. Well wait a minute. Let's go to our studio and see what I can do. I also, oh, I need, ah, so I can do it in my home. But for, for the studio, I need the Google Home app to add devices. So there's something, there's some differences going on here. Okay. But I have, we have Google Home devices around here. That's cool. So you could even write a a Google assistant script that's triggered by your voice. It's pretty slick. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I think that's really neat. All right. Thank you. Stacy. That's your thing. I don't know what it is, but that's what it is. <Laugh>. It's scripting automations.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:11):
I mean, I don't know what to tell you. No, it's cool. Oh, I'll, oh no, I'll tell you at the end. Okay.

Leo Laporte (02:10:18):
We're not at the end.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:19):
No. I'll tell you now. Okay. Hey, this week y'all. Tomorrow

Leo Laporte (02:10:23):
<Laugh>

Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:24):
What? My podcast, I, I mentioned the moon one. The guy's building the LTE network on the moon. So if you're into space and all of that, Ooh. You can find out how like radiation, oh, it's

Leo Laporte (02:10:33):
Finally gonna come out. It's

Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:35):
Coming out tomorrow.

Leo Laporte (02:10:36):
So,

Jeff Jarvis (02:10:36):
Yay.

Leo Laporte (02:10:38):
You also have an article about Microsoft's IOT coding language device script.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:42):
Oh yeah. That's, that's actually really cool for people who wanna build on our

Leo Laporte (02:10:46):
Tinos. This is even more powerful. Yeah. Look at this.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:50):
Well, yeah, that's for controlling Arduinos without having to use like a derivative of a c plus plus. Right? It's, it lets you use JavaScript basically, or device. Yeah, it's like a Java. So

Leo Laporte (02:11:03):
Tomorrow listen to Stacy on iot, the podcast, find out how they're putting cellular technology on the moon. That's crazy. Boys and girls. That's funny. Lt e on the moon. Stacy on iot.com. Mr. Jeff Jarvis, do you have a number for

Jeff Jarvis (02:11:22):
Us? Oh, yeah, we'll find so here, so I wanna just mention the, the, the EU took a step toward regulating ai, so that's gonna be really interesting to watch.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:11:31):
That's in my newsletter this week too.

Jeff Jarvis (02:11:32):
Well, there you go. Everybody get Stacy's newsletter. Stacy, actually, I'm not trying to put a game here. Can you summarize the latest of what that looks like? No, <laugh>,

Leo Laporte (02:11:43):
Move on.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:11:46):
We've talked about, I I can't right now because I, I only spoke. Is this

Leo Laporte (02:11:50):
The story that we did earlier about the privacy

Stacey Higginbotham (02:11:52):
Scene? We, we've done it earlier, but they're, they're actually moving forward. They're actually

Jeff Jarvis (02:11:55):
Moving forward. That's all. Just for the record. Well, I have a silly little photo thing, but we were also gonna discuss beforehand Spotify, which we're gonna take over podcasts. Getting rid of 200 people and kind of ruining podcasting and then saying nevermind.

Leo Laporte (02:12:14):
Yeah. I mean, it's a little pivot from them to be a creator of content to supporting other podcast creators.

Jeff Jarvis (02:12:23):
Do you trust them?

Leo Laporte (02:12:23):
Well, they bought Anchor fm, which I actually is how I created my anchor Makes, I I mentioned Leon on the line, my little podcast that I did 10 years ago. Anyway, anchor makes it really unique. Case I got fired. Yeah. I love Anchor. Well, it's no longer anchor. It's like the Spotify podcast studio. They rebranded everything. I think it's an interesting thing. They're kind of want to be more like YouTube like support creators. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> than like Gimlet, like creating And they bought Gimlet, they bought podcast. Will they

Jeff Jarvis (02:12:49):
Respect rss?

Leo Laporte (02:12:51):
No, of course not. What? Yes, they will podcast. No, they'll and K FM's podcasts are RSS compliant. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I th so I imagine they'll continue to do that. I think they've really learned a lesson, right? That, you know, they spent the lesson a lot of money. They spent half, at least half a million do half a billion dollars if not. So they

Jeff Jarvis (02:13:12):
Regret Joe

Leo Laporte (02:13:12):
Rogan Home Rogan. Hundred million. Yeah, I am right? Yeah. caller daddy was 60 million over three years. They bought the Ringer. Must have cost at least a hundred million. Gimlet Media, Gimlet, Parcast. So it's interesting I think to some degree they're seeing that the podcast industry isn't as lucrative as they might have thought it is. On the other hand, they were doing it because they were under the thumb of the music industry. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and they wanted to create content. So I think it's, I think almost this story is a pivot from of Spotify from being, you know, initially a place where you would stream music. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> then added, you know, other audio content where you'd stream audio content to being a, a facilitator. Cuz they need creators to create a lot of content so that they don't have to lean worry about

Ant Pruitt (02:14:04):
The music side of things.

Leo Laporte (02:14:05):
Yeah. Yeah. So it's my, it's, I don't think it's a bad thing for podcasting necessarily. I'm not ready to cry Wolf yet. We'll see. I mean, I certainly will if it turns out we get one immediate benefit. We've been paying for a service that Spotify bought called pod sites. They've rolled it now into Spotify Ad tech and it's free. So we were paying, it was expensive but some advertisers did demand it, so we were using it and now we can get it for free. So that's huge. We've been talking to Libs Synn about direct ad insertion. We use Megaphone, which is a Spotify company right now. Also expensive. I'm, we're very interested to see what they do with Megaphone. If they drop the price of megaphone, that will be a huge deal for us. So it could be very good for us in the long run. We'll see.

Jeff Jarvis (02:14:56):
And then down in my picks, I put in a little photo thing for Mr. Ant <laugh> a camera squared on one space in the sky. And then you get the sense that Earth is in fact rolling around in space

Leo Laporte (02:15:08):
24 hours of earth rotation. Well, what, what that, just turning the camera upside down.

Jeff Jarvis (02:15:16):
I know.

Leo Laporte (02:15:17):
<Laugh>, and by the way, if you were on, that's not what the Earth's rotation looks like. <Laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (02:15:25):
Oh, that's hilarious.

Ant Pruitt (02:15:29):
That's hilarious. I like the Milky Way showing up though.

Leo Laporte (02:15:31):
Yeah. But this is,

Jeff Jarvis (02:15:32):
It's kind of fun. It's be, but it's fun.

Leo Laporte (02:15:34):
If were, if you were floating six feet above the earth and it was rotating, it wouldn't look like this. That,

Ant Pruitt (02:15:40):
That is hilarious.

Leo Laporte (02:15:41):
The, the, the sky would say the same. The farm would move. Okay, fine.

Ant Pruitt (02:15:47):
Nevermind. Touche. Mr. Drys.

Leo Laporte (02:15:49):
24 hours of the camera's rotation.

Ant Pruitt (02:15:52):
Touche. I won't, I won't bring you any more bridges to the show. Again.

Leo Laporte (02:15:56):
He's punishing you. He's punishing you.

Jeff Jarvis (02:16:00):
I am indeed. No, I'm,

Leo Laporte (02:16:01):
I'm busy. But

Ant Pruitt (02:16:02):
Watching that, this dude is falling out in his chair. He is. So done. You ready to go home

Leo Laporte (02:16:08):
<Laugh>? I'm melting. I'm melting. And your ab Ken do you have something you gotta

Ant Pruitt (02:16:16):
Pick? Yes. My pick is for those of you using Lightroom mobile, there was a recent update that's been rolling out. I haven't gotten an update yet, but they've made some changes as far as how you can import your images on your phone into Lightroom to do your post-processing. Now there's really no import. They're just sort of there. So that sort of speeds up workflow. That's nice. And then they also added this little cool feature that basically records your editing process so you can share out your editing process. Oh, I love that. How you did that. How you created your image.

Leo Laporte (02:16:47):
There have been drawing programs like procreate does this. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (02:16:49):
Procreate does

Leo Laporte (02:16:50):
That. It show you, shows all the drawing and I love that. Cool. Oh, that'll be fun. What a great way for you to share how you edit a photo. And

Ant Pruitt (02:16:58):
I've done that a time or three, but it's a lot of work for me to do it with the to

Leo Laporte (02:17:03):
You have do like go be a studio and record everything. Yeah. So this will record it for you. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (02:17:07):
Very nice. It's pretty slick. So thanks. I haven't gotten an update yet. If you, if you got it, try it out. Let me know your thoughts on it.

Leo Laporte (02:17:13):
You know as you know, I like my, like a Q2 camera. Mm.

Ant Pruitt (02:17:18):
Log doll

Leo Laporte (02:17:19):
<Laugh>, like it has a photo app which imports your, your photos to your computer or your phone. Yep. Now supports direct support for darkroom. So, damn. Kinda like Lightroom darkroom Yeah. Is built in now to do all your photo editing. So they've streamlined that as well. That's makes sense. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, this is just, this is a smart thing to do cuz most photos are now done on the phone. On the phone. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (02:17:42):
Just cut out one less step there. Yep. and lastly, I just wanna say, have a laugh. Check out <laugh> Greg Warren special on YouTube. This is a free special that he put out and I enjoyed it because I like to watch standup comedians and pretty much a wide range of standup comedians. So check out Greg Warren and have a laugh

Leo Laporte (02:18:04):
Folks. Where the field corn grows.

Ant Pruitt (02:18:07):
He has a funny story because previously he was a sales rep for Jiff selling peanut butter <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:18:18):
What'd you do before comedy? I sold peanut butter.

Ant Pruitt (02:18:20):
So soap peanut butter. So he, he'll do a, a about 20 minutes just on peanut butter. So yeah, go check that out. It's

Leo Laporte (02:18:28):
Funny cuz it's true

Ant Pruitt (02:18:29):
Because it's true.

Leo Laporte (02:18:30):
<Laugh>, did you ever put peanut butter on your forehead so you could cut your dog's toenails?

Ant Pruitt (02:18:36):
That would be no son

Leo Laporte (02:18:38):
<Laugh>. It seems to be a popular trope on TikTok. I'm just saying. Well, thank God this is over <laugh>. And

Ant Pruitt (02:18:49):
We talked about Google today. Dude,

Leo Laporte (02:18:51):
Did I just say that out loud? I was just thinking it, but I

Stacey Higginbotham (02:18:55):
I like that. I'm not the person doing this. This feels real good to me. Thank

Ant Pruitt (02:18:59):
You. Dude. Is so, he's so ready

Leo Laporte (02:19:01):
To go home. I'm trying to get you out of your thing. I gotta go home and have a Appreciate it. Super waffle.

Ant Pruitt (02:19:05):
In the Bourbon,

Leo Laporte (02:19:06):
Stacey is gonna do a really good thing about the FCC and privacy on Friday. Her podcast tomorrow is all about putting LTE on the moon. You gotta go to Stacy on iot.com. That's her website. Listen to the iot podcast with Kevin Tofl, get the newsletter. Sign up for the events. Participate in Stacy's life because God knows it's better than mine. Enjoy.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:19:33):
May not participate in my life. <Laugh>,

Leo Laporte (02:19:36):
You know, don't participate.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:19:37):
Participate in the content that I'm

Ant Pruitt (02:19:38):
Appreciate an introvert wants to hear.

Leo Laporte (02:19:41):
No. You know what, I really, I know. I love it because Stacy, for so long has been a journalist working for great publications and stuff. Yeah. And she's doing it on her own now. And I think that's really fantastic. Kicking ass. And I think it's everybody who loves you should support it. Yes. And support your efforts because you're, this is what everybody wants to do. This is, this is the future of journalism.

Jeff Jarvis (02:20:03):
Yeah, I hope so. And

Stacey Higginbotham (02:20:03):
They do. Your audience is like really awesome. They pop up all

Leo Laporte (02:20:06):
The time. It's not mine. It's yours now. Yay.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:20:08):
Y'all.

Leo Laporte (02:20:08):
<Laugh>. I give it to you. Thank you. Stacy. Jeff Jarvis. Golly. This guy. He, he may he may look like, what was it,

Ant Pruitt (02:20:19):
The New York, was it a New Yorker?

Leo Laporte (02:20:21):
A new cartoon?

Stacey Higginbotham (02:20:23):
New New Yorker cartoon.

Leo Laporte (02:20:24):
But he's actually alive and living and teaches journalism. He's the director of the, in fact, he's prestigious Director of the Town, night Center for Entrepreneurial Journalism at the Craig Newmark School of Journalism at the City University of New York. Also the author of a fabulous book, which he cannot stop plugging. Called the Gutenberg Parenthesis only

Jeff Jarvis (02:20:43):
Once this

Leo Laporte (02:20:44):
Time. It comes out this month. We are go, we have to have a big party on the 29th. What are we gonna do? Help me. I'm gonna

Jeff Jarvis (02:20:54):
Be in, in England promoting it on the 5th of July. So I'll be gone that week.

Leo Laporte (02:21:00):
Oh. No.

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:02):
Yes. It will

Leo Laporte (02:21:03):
Be. Oh, is it? What's the website? The gut? The Gutenberg parenthesis. Just,

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:07):
Just gutenberg parenthesis.com.

Leo Laporte (02:21:09):
Oh, I left out the n in parenthesis.

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:12):
I know it's

Leo Laporte (02:21:12):
Long. Yeah, it's hard. No,

Ant Pruitt (02:21:14):
And I had two Ts in

Leo Laporte (02:21:16):
Gutenberg. Oh. And, and there's a e <laugh> that's, that's gut Guttenberg. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:21:21):
Sorry, Jeff <laugh>

Leo Laporte (02:21:24):
Parenthesis is hard to spell Well's. Steve Guttenberg. There we go. I got it. I got, no, that's goer. Should

Stacey Higginbotham (02:21:32):
I send Andrew your way? Potential url. I

Leo Laporte (02:21:36):
Wrote the, the Goberg, the go there. It's the

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:41):
Guttenberg

Leo Laporte (02:21:42):
And you can get it right now. And Jeff, you don't care where people buy it from. Amazon, Bloomberg, Blackwell's. Bloomsbury

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:47):
Has a discount. Amazon will have a discount. Blackwell's I love has a discount.

Leo Laporte (02:21:51):
Yeah. And they'll ship it for free. I

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:53):
I have to put a v d books S link. I forgot to put that

Ant Pruitt (02:21:55):
Up. I have a confession. I I finally ordered your book, sir, for the last several weeks. I keep telling myself I need to order this book. I need to order this book. And I never think to do it. Soon as the show goes, stop recording it just sort of slips my mind. So I finally just ordered it today during the show. Thank you, sir. I don't like to do stuff like this during the show, but I was like, I can't forget. So just order the day. Well, I

Jeff Jarvis (02:22:18):
Do Twitter during the show. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:22:20):
It's 20, yeah. $29 and 30 cents

Stacey Higginbotham (02:22:23):
And I shot on the Discord, so.

Leo Laporte (02:22:24):
Wow. Well the,

Ant Pruitt (02:22:25):
That's all I tried to know. Tried to, I

Leo Laporte (02:22:27):
Tried to, that's right. I just bought it, so it's fine. I don't care. I it will, I want to have it so that even though you won't be here, we can hold it up and we can eat cake. Thank you. Yeah. We're funny hats

Ant Pruitt (02:22:38):
Says mine will be here on the 30th. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:22:40):
Very excited. And you're gonna be out and about promoting it in San Let Francisco on July 25th at the Commonwealth Club doing a talk on it. Can we get you, can we get a car for you to drive up and visit us or? Yes. Are we gonna come up with the 26th? Cause I'm in the calendar. Oh, awesome. Yes. Stuck with me. Dinner's on me. That'll be great. Oh,

Ant Pruitt (02:23:00):
That's great. But

Leo Laporte (02:23:02):
Dinner would be great. Yeah. Thank you Jeff. Aunt Pruitt, aunt pruitt.com/prince Get the Prince cause he's a prince of among men. Order a print. He's on hands on photography. <Laugh> this watch this week is gonna be a big one. What time?

Ant Pruitt (02:23:19):
We try to get it out the door, roughly.

Leo Laporte (02:23:22):
Oh, you don't let people watch you do it, do you? No, I don't do a lot. So subscribe Twitter tv.

Ant Pruitt (02:23:27):
Subscribe. We subscribe, we try to get it out the door. Mr. Victor is a such a dead gum good editor and he makes it all pretty and sound good. So we try about 3:00 PM Pacific on Thursdays.

Leo Laporte (02:23:36):
On on Thursdays tomorrow. Okay. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative> on the Twitter and Pruitt.

Ant Pruitt (02:23:40):
But what's bigger though is tomorrow is our club Twit Fireside chat.

Leo Laporte (02:23:46):
This is really where Ant Shines. He has done such a great job with the club. He's our community manager tomorrow 9:00 AM mm-hmm. <Affirmative> Pacific. Sean Powers from Floss Weekly. Yep. Stacy's Higgin. Stacy's Higgin. Molin <laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (02:24:03):
No, that's not true. Well, we've got

Stacey Higginbotham (02:24:04):
A book club coming up in

Leo Laporte (02:24:05):
A week or two on 29th. Better get reading on the Terraforms from Anna Lee Lewis. That's her newest. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I hear very good, very good things about it.

Ant Pruitt (02:24:13):
I won't comment yet, but go ahead.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:24:15):
It's coming back to that capitalism, mutual aid type kind of conversation.

Leo Laporte (02:24:19):
And I really want to thank an because he has put together a very exciting interview with Hugh Howie, the author of Wool, which is the basis for the Apple TV plus Hit Silo, just renewed for a second

Ant Pruitt (02:24:31):
Season. That, that show is so Dgu. Good.

Leo Laporte (02:24:34):
Very exciting. So one o'clock Pacific on the 29th, Hugh Howie in, in conversation with Aunt Pruitt. Again, this is club only. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. The, the bourbon fueled Inside Twit after hours is on the 14th. Rod Pyle is on the 27th. That's both of July.

Ant Pruitt (02:24:54):
There's a correction. There's gonna be bourbon. There's gonna be scotch, there's probably gonna be some of that synthetic alcohol

Leo Laporte (02:24:59):
<Laugh> course. Cause we gotta get rid of that crap. Jesus stuff is awful. <Laugh>. If you are not yet a member of Club Twit, it's not too late. You can join it. It is very affordable. Seven bucks a month gets you ad free versions of all of our shows, gets you access to the Discord where lots of stuff happens. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it's kind of, you know, like behind the Velvet Rope, you've got all those events. We've got shows we don't put out otherwise we only put 'em out for the club. Hands-On Macintosh with Mike Sargent. Hands on Windows with Paul Theat. I think the biggest, newest launches. Scott Wilkinson's, home Theater Geeks. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> this week. His face started in the club. It's one way we can develop new shows and, and bring them out. Because your seven bucks a month pays for all of that.

(02:25:46):
Podcasting is struggling. But the future I think of what we do is with you. If you like what we produce and you want us to keep producing it, it's not a lot of money a latte. Two a month, $7 a month. But it makes a huge difference to us. Twit TV slash club twit. There's also an annual plan, family plan. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and corporate plans as well. And for everybody that's currently members, feel free to tell others about it. Say, hey, yeah, check us out. Spread the word. If we can get everybody in the club, it's, it's you know, it, it really will be the future, I think for, for what we do. It's in the future. Yep. Yep. Clearly what needs to happen. Thank you, Stacy. Thank you. An thank you Jeff. Thank you especially for listening and watching. We really appreciate you for putting up with us. Every Wednesday 11 sorry, 2:00 PM Pacific, 5:00 PM Eastern, 2100 UTC Live twit TV for this week in Google. Subscribe please and thank you, please. That way you'll get it automatically. You can download copies from twit tv slash twig. There is also a YouTube channel. Thanks everybody. We'll see you next week on this week in Google. Bye-Bye.

(02:27:01):
Hey there. Scott Wilkinson here. In case you hadn't heard, home Theater Geeks is Back. Each week I bring you the latest audio, video news, tips and tricks to get the most out of your AV system product reviews and more you can enjoy Home Theater Geeks only if you're a member of Club Twit, which costs seven bucks a month. Or you can subscribe to Home Theater Geeks by itself for only 2 99 a month. I hope you'll join me for a weekly dose of home theater.